RAPTURE!! It is coming and I will be saved because I am better than you! (SARCASM) Update pg 22

He specifically enunciates how they most certainly are not the same events but distinctly different!

ARE YOU UNABLE TO SEE OR HEAR?!

Don't worry!

I'm reasonably certain that if you are so consumed by hatred for even the thought of the enormous blessing of the Rapture

that there is no way you are going

even if it is exactly precisely the true will of Jesus Christ?

Why would He fight You?

You can stay!

As YOU insist!

I'm sure He will allow!

Thanks my brother, and God bless you too. I hate that these debates always bring about strife. That's why I rarely ever post on these theology debates anymore. It rarely ever changes anyone's mind on either side and usually ends up in hurt feelings because love usually gets tossed out the window at some point along the way.

I'm trying to avoid getting caught up in those things anymore, I used to, but not anymore.

But, I will leave you with this thought. There is no possible way the elect could be deceived by the rapture because it will be completely involuntary. It will not be something you chose to do or chose to participate in, it will happen in an instant, you will be taken.......end of story. The deception could happen for those left behind, as satan will try to explain where they went, and he will lie.

I have studied more than you could possibly imagine, for YEARS. I didn't believe in the rapture until about 5 years ago when I studied it for myself and God Himself spoke to me about it. I guess you would believe it too if that happened to you.

Have a good night.

I won't fault anyone for their own beliefs, not on this subject to be sure, but I have found through the course of my lifetime that this system, as designed by the Creator, does not by it's nature hand out freebies. Things of true great value have to be earned through hard work, great Faith and by great sacrifice, sometimes accompanied by suffering. The idea that there can actually be 144k souls on the planet of such great Faith and service to the Almighty that they just get the old free ride into the sky, seems, at least to me, to be a set up for deception rather than something to look forward to. Me, I am used to the work and the suffering, I know its value and fear it not, though failure is always an option.

Those faithful souls were faithful during their lives......they disowned the world and were not part of it. They were the virgins with oil in their lamps. The rapture (not going through the wrath) is their reward for being faithful to Him during their lives while the rest of the world was partying, living in sin, and not giving one crap about Jesus and His commandments. The did stay faithful, they gave up much for Him even through personal trials and tribulations. They did not forsake Him, like the rest of the world has.

Think about that.

No doubt it is possible, though I cannot say that I am even aware of a single soul that would come close. Perhaps I am wrong, and hopefully I am.

It's not a large number........only a few because the majority of the world doesn't care about Him. They only care about themselves and living for the world.

And I think there is a misconception about the rapture. It's not that any christian "deserves" to go........nobody deserves to go. But the last half of the tribulation is when God's wrath is poured out on the earth and all it's inhabitants because they forsook God and refused to repent.

The wise virgins with oil in their lamps did not forsake Him. They are spared the wrath because they did not forsake Him like the rest of the world did. The wrath is to get people to repent and turn back to God....and then destroy those who refuse in the end.

The faithful bride already repented and lived her life for Him. She is spared the punishment coming on the world because she was faithful during her life. She does not need to be chastised because she is already doing her best to live according to His word.

God is always just and fair. Would it be fair to hand down the same punishment for the innocent and the guilty? Of course not. The bride does escape the wrath because she loved Him and He loved her. God does not punish the faithful.

By "he" I assume you mean the fellow in the video?

AS I SAID I CAN'T WATCH THE VIDEO.

I do "THINK" I know what manipulation of scripture is taking place within it however, and if I am correct, what is being show is in error.

Anyone can say something, it doesn't make it true. I can specifically enunciate and say for example, that the sun that sets one day is not the same that rises the next and I would be wrong, because it is another occurrence of the same thing, just on a different day.

If that is what the video is about, MOST ASSUREDLY, WHAT HE "CLAIMS" TO BE SEPARATE, ARE IN FACT THE SAME WHICH PARALLEL EACH OTHER. They do NOT speak of different occurrence as he would lead us to believe.

Really? I don't think so. I am using scripture to refute false teaching. Using NOT my words, but Christ's own.

Consider what He has to say! The Rapture is in line with His condemnation of the tenets it claims to endorse and shown it not to be true. The Rapture does NOT come from Him. It is in opposition to Him!

THAT is what I am presenting here.

I present this case out of love, not malice. The following is in stark similarity to the Rapture belief.

Jesus warns us against judging ourselves or others in the Parable of the Pharisee and the Tax Collector.

Luke 18:9-14

He then addressed this parable to those who were convinced of their own righteousness and despised everyone else. <<This is exactly what the Rapture Theory endorses!

‘Two people went up to the temple area to pray; one was a Pharisee and the other was a tax collector. The Pharisee took up his position and spoke this prayer to himself, “O God, I thank you that I am not like the rest of humanity—greedy, dishonest, adulterous—or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week, and I pay tithes on my whole income.” But the tax collector stood off at a distance and would not even raise his eyes to heaven but beat his breast and prayed, “O God, be merciful to me a sinner.” I tell you, the latter went home justified, not the former; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and the one who humbles himself will be exalted.’ ”

The Pharisee credited God for his spiritual blessings by thanking Him for them. However, God was displeased with him because he was presumptuous about his own spirituality and he assumed God’s sovereign role as judge.


Belief in a Rapture is akin to the parable of the ten virgins. The foolish ones in essence squander their oil on false doctrine expecting that to suffice and expecting great reward for that belief. When it finally proves evident that it wont', then they expect others to supply it for them when crunch time comes. They expect others to get them through instead of being prepared, dividing the truth and doing those things necessary to light their own way and carry themselves through. They want others to save them instead of doing what they need to do to save themselves.

Those wise virgins are NOT turned aside by false doctrine, unlike the foolish ones who must go seeking to fill their lamp because they were.

Matthew 27
51And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent; 52And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, 53And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many. 54Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God.”.

These are the 144,000. These are the first fruits. They arose when Christ was resurrected as shown in scripture above.

This has already occurred. These are Israelite's.

Seems logical to me and much more is possible than we mere mortals and mortal hybrids can fathom. As far as my own lot goes, I can see a fate of testing and perhaps even a beheading for my Faith and testament in the Savior.

Ok.......we'll just have to agree to disagree until someday we will all be on the same page.

Love you guys.....focus on Jesus and what He did for us because that's the most important thing anyway.

Indeed, well said. Of course even He had to suffer for His Faith, did He not? Without a doubt the greatest act of strength ever displayed by a human or a human hybrid in the history of the planet! Thank you Master.

You're absolutely right, thank you Jesus for what you did for each and every one of us!!!!!

There are mature souls on the Earth who will be saved by this man (quotation):

...

I met with GOD in August 1992.
Before it an invisible demon wanted to steal my soul. And I asked God to kill me and save my soul. So He appeared in human form (as Ancient of Days) and did a miracle (confidential).
Many years after it I studied religious, metaphysic and paranormal sources. And I collected knowledge of Good.

In December 2012 I calculated an address of Hell and went there to get knowledge of Evil. In the Hell I met with Lucifer-Satan (two souls of fallen archangels in one flesh) and freed him/her. New Lucifer is on duty already (I passed key from abyss to this new fallen high rank archangel). Future Satan is still alive.

In June 2014 I met with Demiurge who is chiaf of our loop of circle Samsara (deceived people call it Yahweh). This creature of many souls of fallen Principalities suggested me to be my servant (I refused and odered it to obey Absolute GOD only).

A year ago I calculated address of Eden. Now I'm gathering redeemed of the Earth and show them the way there.

I wrote several articles in Russian which are foundation of a new science.
This science will show mankind a way how to travel in ||Worlds and Time space.
There are three files in English:
a) the Book of Seven Seals: [link to esocenter.ru] the exact drawing of it;
b) The Tablets of Moses: [link to esocenter.ru] with translation of signature under the covenant:
c) an old version (2010) of the Book of Seven Seals: [link to planeta.moy.su] in which wisdom of Seals are explained.

...

Read this thread. It really saddened me. The anti-rapture people have been so extensively cruel. They have attacked their supposed fellow Christians, when at the most, they should have corrected their misunderstanding, if there was any. The behavior of the anti-rapture Christians versus the behavior of the pro-rapture Christians is very telling. The pro-rapture Christians have sought dialog, have shaking off and excused personal attacks, always showing love for their fellow Christians, even those they believe to be in error, and obviously exhibiting very hateful speech.

If you have read Jesus' message, and have taken it into your heart, I think this thread is illustrative as to the veracity of the rapture claim.

Praising God for your freedom from the bondage of the LDS "church". I'm praying that you can be a light to your brothers and sisters who are born or converted into that bondage but who are called to be free and inherit eternal life in God's kingdom.

If that is the case, they're really not getting it, though I'll not be reading those threads to confirm your claim ;)

If you ever do decide to read some of them...do it on an empty stomach.

The pure HATE in them will make you sick.

As will the PURE FAIL.

I'm digging how you two are talking to each other...iron sharpening iron digging into God's word is a good thing especially when done through the gifts of the Spirit mention in in Galatians 5:22.

The biggest hurdle pre-trib folks have to deal with is the separation of the Pre/Mid Rapture from the Return of Christ aka The Day of the Lord. I used to hold a pre-trib view but have seen some different perspective on the futurist eschatology as a whole that cause me concern and now have me leaning toward a historicst eschatology. The sentiment I am hearing from Osmium that I echo is a warning of a false profession of faith (which is terrifyingly predicted in Matthew 7:21-23). That false profession of faith will be brought to a shattering end when the persecution of the saints begins and when the judgments fall onto the earth. From a historicst viewpoint...the saints experienced the wrath God poured out on Israel through the Romans when Jerusalem was burned. As Christians though, we can feel the promise of Romans 8:28 lift us up knowing that all things work for the good for those that love God and are called according to his purpose...and no matter how intense our suffering is here on earth in this life...it will be light and momentary compared to the glory that will be revealed (2 Cor 4:17).

I don't know how you had the patience to compile that list. Interestingly enough...if you look at the 2015 ones, that is probably when I was under the impression that the Pre-Trib rapture was real...my position changed after I did some research on all that stuff. Same thing happened with Hell too...that is my main area of focus now....

Liar.

You have it all wrong.

The Rapture theory is an attack on Christ and everything He came to do. It is contrary to scripture.

Jesus Christ came and gave Himself up so that all men MIGHT come to the Glory of the coming Kingdom.

Jesus tells Saints that they are to be like Him even so much as laying their life down for Him as He did for us. We are to sacrifice ourselves for Him, suffer as He did and pray that we are worthy of salvation. The tribulation will be the trenches that test the mind and spirit of men. This will be a proving ground for Saints to prove their commitment to Him and God.

People who endorse a Rapture want to skip all of that and say that their promise is assured, without proving themselves worthy. Instead, they put their faith in philosophy and the assumption that they will be rewarded for their faith, without being willing to face trials and tribulation. They don't want to do the work, they just want the reward. The want an easy out. How else can you attribute it?

Will you lay down your life for your belief or do you expect the Calvary to come swooping in and save you so you don't have to prove yourself worthy?

Jesus led by example. He gave up His life because He knew God would raise Him up again. It would be remiss of any of us to believe that we should not be expected to do the same for Him. That is what living in the Spirit is all about.

THAT IS WHAT PEOPLE WHO EXPECT TO BE SAVED FROM ALL OF THE COMING TRIALS AND TRIBULATION FAIL TO ACKNOWLEDGE.

A trial is something that one has to go through to prove themselves. THAT IS WHAT THE TRIBULATION IS. IT IS A PROVING GROUND. IT IS A REFINING FIRE, SIFTING THE WHEAT FROM THE CHAFF.

If one is unwilling to give themselves over to the power of God DURING tribulation, then they are none of His, because they reject the test that He has set up.

In essence, they have already failed the test before it has even began.

Very well said. Thank you for that assessment.

It is not my intention to harm others who take an interest in wishing to walk in truth and love.

My main intent and purpose is to reveal the flaw of espousing and championing the dangerous and misaligned philosophy that the Rapture theory embraces.

People who embrace the Rapture theory are putting their faith in the act of being saved, rather than in the power and Glory of the Savior Himself. They are not seeking to overcome as He did and said we too must do, but rather, they are relying on His sacrifice alone.

It is like the story of the little red hen. She does all of the work, but in the end, everyone else wants to share in the reward having not done anything to earn it.

Jesus already gives us a warning about trying to enter the fold by any means other than through the gate. He calls those individuals thief's and robbers.

John 10
1Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.

When it is your turn to lay your life down for Him, will you do it? The tribulation to come is a test.

Anyone can claim to be a Saint, Christian, Apostle, Servant of God or whatever you might aspire to be, however, when it come time to prove it, will you? Or will you attempt to get by on the merit of others?

Should you not be willing to take up the same mantle that Christ did? Or would you rather rely on His sacrifice alone, not being willing to follow after Him and prove "your righteousness" by following His example?

True faith isn't shown by those who expect to escape the upcoming trials and tribulation, rather, it is confirmed in those who have it, by charging in and facing adversity while knowing, with assurance, that God will have your back.

If God is with you, who can stand against you?

The bible shows this with numerous examples. His people had to fight, and they did so knowing that God is and was on their side.

Right now, there is a spiritual war going on for your mind and those who believe in a Rapture are losing.