RAPTURE!! It is coming and I will be saved because I am better than you! (SARCASM) Update pg 22

That is the whole point of this thread.

People who endorse a Rapture, by the very definition of the Rapture Theory, believe that they have earned salvation. That is the basic Rapture principle.

They believe that they get to catch an express to heaven, because they are approved and worthy. In their mind, they envision a means for the just and faithful to skip all of the testing and trying to come. They are above that because they are already righteous. This means that they can relax. They have made it. They did what they had to do. They are going to Jesus, they don't need to wait for Him to come to them.

I am not trying to belittle anyone. I simply want people to realize the truth.

I know some people will refuse to listen

I will never agree that it is biblical however.

of course you are trying to belittle as well as lead folks astray.

You are more concerned with people seeing it "your way" rather than truth.

and people should refuse to listen to your faulty and flawed interpretations on this subject as you are quite wrong, regardless of which verse(s) you throw out along with your false interpretation of said verse(s).

no one should be basing their beliefs on anything you have spewed on this thread, nor anything I have said but they should be a berean and search for themselves.

whether you agree with the rapture being biblical or not doesn't change the fact that it is indeed true, accurate and quite biblical.

I respectfully disagree that Satan is coming to impersonate Jesus. When the Anti-Christ comes, it is the Jews and the World's anti-Christ. The Jews do not accept Jesus. This is a FALSE messiah that comes. Satan does not "pretend" to be Jesus- the Anti-Christ touts himself as the messiah of the people of the world. Towards the end of everything Satan indwels the anti-Christ. Like a possession. That is why the Jews and the rest of the unbelieving world follow the Anti-Christ. Because Jesus was rejected and continues to be REJECTED. They are blatantly and knowinginly worshipping the occultic BEAST. The people who call themselves Christians but wink at new age beliefs, horoscopes, Past lives, sex sin, et al will be drawn in to this.... Just as they find themselves drawn into the sin they won't repent of. They have no discernment. They are spiritually dead and are completely carnal. They are spiritually seduced. But Satan impersonating Jesus? No. The world is not awaiting a SAVIOR. They don't believe they need saving from anything. Do as thou wilt. They are waiting for their MESSIAH. A worldly leader. The world will be in turmoil and they are waiting for an enlightened one who will give them back their creature comforts and performing lying wonders. Who will tickle their ears with what they want to hear. NOT a savior because believing in a savior means you sin and in the unbeliever's world, there is no such thing as sin-- just "mistakes". Just ask Eckart Tolle.

rapture is important for God, and it appears to be in the doctrine. But your post is abput faith, whereas you are SPOT ON.

chip, what is wrong with you? what do you know of God?!

that is why you are now a moderator here, eh?

my bad for being the salt on your wounds

Again. USE SCRIPTURE TO SUPPORT YOUR RAPTURE VIEW OR SHUT UP!

So far with the exception of a few, most Rapture tards spout crap, but they DON'T SAY ANYTHING WORTHWHILE. It is begining to seem like you all were spoon fed the lies and you believe them because you were told it was true without checking the facts for yourself.

Very few of you people that support a Rapture Theory have used scripture to support your belief. It really is astonishing!

How many of you have actually purchased ocean front property in Arizona?

The Pre-Tribulation Rapture View

When dealing with doctrinal issues, sometimes some truths are right there in the Bible in front of our noses, and it's easy for us to understand them. Other truths are more challenging and require us to look at the whole chapter, book, or bible in order to fully grasp the concepts. When any one verse dealing with a particular doctrinal issue appears to stand apart from other similar truths, we should suspect that there may be an interpretational or possibly a translation issue involved that needs further research. I believe the doctrine of the rapture is one such difficult truth.

The word 'rapture' is not listed in the English bible. But it is listed in the Latin Vulgate bible, written by Jerome in the early 400's AD. The word there is 'raeptius' or 'rapturo' , which translated into English means 'rapture'. It is found here in the English bible:

1 Thessalonians 4:17
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be *caught up* together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

In English bibles, 'raeptius' or 'rapturo' is transliterated into 'caught up'. That happens sometimes during the translation process to try to communicate the point more familiarly.

The original Thessalonian manuscripts however were written in Greek. There were actually no 'English' words at all in the original bibles, including the word 'bible' itself. And the original Greek word for 'rapture' is listed in English script as 'harpazo', which means 'to rapture up into the air', or to 'snatch away'.

It was this original Greek term 'harpazo' that Jerome later translated into Latin as 'raeptius', which was later translated into English as 'rapture'. These terms all mean the same thing: 'to be caught up'.

[link to en.wikipedia.org (secure)]
[link to www.raptureready.com]

Below are some reasons I believe the Pre-Tribulation Rapture doctrine is likely to be the most Biblically accurate view:

1. Imminency. We're supposed to look, watch, and wait for Yahshua(Jesus') imminent return. Nothing has to happen before Yahshua(Jesus) returns for us. (1 Cor. 1:7; Phil. 3:20; 1 Thes. 1:10; Titus 2:13; Heb. 9:28; 1 Peter 1:13; Jude 21) The non-Pre-Trib positions ALL require certain things to happen 1st before Yahshua(Jesus) can return. Things like the Antichrist's 7 yr peace treaty with Israel, the rebuilding of the Jewish Temple in Jerusalem on the Temple Mount right on or next to the Muslim Dome of the Rock, the 7 Seals of Judgment, etc. These things destroy imminency.

[link to www.oxfordbiblechurch.co.uk]

2. Dispensation of the Tribulation. The Bible states that Daniel's 70th Week/Tribulation/Great Tribulation/Time of Jacob's Trouble/Day of the Lord/Wrath of God are all things related to God's dealing with Israel getting ready to restore it back to His grace. (Deut. 4:29-30; Jer. 30:4-11; Ezek. 20:22-44; 22:13-22) This is not a time for the Church, but a time for "those who dwell on the earth"- meaning non-Christians. (Rev. 3:10; 6:10; 8:13; 11:10; 13:8, 12, 14; 17:2, 8)

3. Dispensation of the Church. The Church is promised to be taken up to the Father's House. (John 14:1-3 Compare this verse with 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18) How can that be if the Church remains here on earth thru the 2nd Coming? Going up to meet Yahshua(Jesus) in the air at the moment He's coming down to finish off the Antichrist and his armies is not the same as the Church going up to heaven. There is no mention of Yahshua(Jesus) going back to heaven in the Bible after His 2nd Coming. And I don't think He's going to open heaven and come down with all His angels just to pick up the Church in the air, then do a mid-flight U-turn & go back up to heaven. Then grab some horses and linens for the Church. Then do another U-turn and come back immediately to finish off the Antichrist. The Bible doesn't say that.

Also the Church is a Mystery. (Eph. 3:1-13; 2:11-22) That means a new Truth has just been revealed. The Old Testament prophets knew nothing about it or it's role in God's plan. But they did know a lot about the Tribulation period. This is further evidence that the two ages: the Old Testament Israel era & the New Testament Church era will not overlap. Right now, the Jews and Gentiles are co-mingled in the Church, (Eph. 2-3) but this can't be when you look at God's 70 Weeks program for Israel in Daniel. The two must be separated prior to the beginning of Daniel's 70th Week, which is the beginning of the 7 year Tribulation.

The Church has also been promised deliverance from the TIME of God's wrath. That means, "out of the time period" of the Tribulation. (1 Thes. 1:9-10; 5:9; Rev. 3:10)

4. Time Gap Needed. A time period is needed in heaven to handle some things that will take place with the Church after the rapture.

The Judgment Seat of Christ (or 'Bema' in Greek) needs to happen to Christians in the Church in heaven before they return with Yahshua(Jesus) to the Battle of Armageddon. (2 Corinthians 5:10) This is when they get their rewards for good Christian service (or not)

The Bride of Christ (the true Assembly(Church) has to be in heaven to get ready for the Marriage Supper of the Lamb (Revelation 19:7-10) as I mentioned earlier. They can't do this if they don't go up to heaven before the 2nd Coming.

The 24 Elders around the Throne in heaven appear to be very representative of the Church. If this is so, the Church must be in heaven prior to the opening of the 1st Seal of the Scroll of the Tribulation- the opening kick-off if you will. (Revelation 4:1-5:14) In the New Testament, the elders represent the Church. (Acts 15:6; 20:28) In the Old Testament, the elders were always 24 in number, and appointed by King David to represent the entire priesthood. In Yahshua(Jesus') new Millennial Kingdom, Christians will assume the title of the Priesthood. (Revelation 20:6)

Where are all the mortals? If all the Christians are raptured up at the 2nd Coming of Christ, who will be left to re-populate the earth during the Millennial Kingdom? All the bad guys will be gone because of the Battle of Armageddon and the Wheat & Tares/Sheep & Goats Judgment. Raptured Christians will have immortal bodies and will no longer pro-create. (sorry) But the Bible clearly states that there will be mortal Christians who survived the cataclysm and who would carry on mortal life on earth. (Isa. 65:20-25). And, the Wheat & Tares/Sheep & Goats Judgment would also be impossible if all the good guys were already raptured. There would be no need for a separation of the two groups of mortals. This is an impossible situation for the Post-Tribulation Rapture proponents.

5. The Presence of the Holy Spirit. The 'man of lawlessness'/Antichrist/beast is said to be held back for now. (2 Thessalonians 2:1-12) The 'restrainer of evil'/Holy Spirit (2 Thessalonians 2:6-8) is at work in the Church right now and will leave with it in the Pre-Trib rapture. This will then free the Antichrist to unleash his demonic power on the world soon after, which is the first Seal of Judgment to be opened in heaven after the rapture. The Pre-Trib view is the only view that can work here.

6. Here are some comparisons between the Rapture & the 2nd Coming:

Rapture: is a translation or resurrection coming where the Lord comes FOR His Church/Bride (1 Cor. 15:51-52; 1 Thess. 4:15-17) and taking her to His Father's House. (John 14:3).
2nd Coming: Yahshua(Jesus) is coming WITH his saints/Church/Bride to set up His Millennial Kingdom on earth for 1000 yrs. (Rev. 19; Zech. 14:4-5; Matt. 24:27-31)

Rapture: is a Mystery, a newly revealed truth (1 Cor. 15:51-54; Col. 1:26) not known to the Old Testament prophets, and making it a separate event from anything they have foreseen. The New Testament talks about the Rapture of the Church and the 2nd Coming.
2nd Coming: was predicted in the Old Testament. (Dan. 12:1-3; Zech. 12:10; 14:4) The Old Testament of Israel just talks about the 2nd Coming.

More comparisons between the two:

Rapture: Translation of all believers
2nd Coming: No translation of anyone

Rapture: Translated saints go up to heaven
2nd Coming: Translated saints return to earth

Rapture: Earth is not judged at that time
2nd Coming: Earth is judged and righteousness is restored

Rapture: Imminent and sign-less
2nd Coming: Follows exact signs and days according to Daniel and Revelation prior to.

Rapture: Is for Believers only
2nd Coming: Is for everyone

Rapture: Happens before the Day of Wrath
2nd Coming: Concludes the Day of Wrath

Rapture: Has no reference to Satan
2nd Coming: Satan is bound up for 1000 yrs.

Rapture: Yahshua(Jesus) comes in the air only
2nd Coming: Yahshua(Jesus) comes down to the earth

Rapture: Only Christians see Him
2nd Coming: Everyone sees Him

Rapture: Tribulation then begins
2nd Coming: Millennial Kingdom begins

7. Practical Results of a Pre-Trib Rapture. Some people think the Pre-Tribbers have illusions of escapism that will destroy their witness and faith if the Pre-Trib Rapture doesn't play out. They think Pre-Tribbers don't care about anything or anyone because they think they have a 'Get out of Jail Free' card for the Tribulation. However, they might not realize that Yahshua(Jesus) will reward Christians for good service at the Judgment Seat of Christ later in heaven after the rapture. If there is no good Christian service, there may be little or no rewards waiting for them after the rapture.

The fact that Yahshua(Jesus) could return today for us should be a good motivator for living a good Christian life and doing good works for Christ.

Also, knowing that loved ones: friends and family, who aren't Christians will be left behind after the rapture to face the coming cataclysm of the Great Tribulation should be enough to motivate them to try to lead as many people as possible to Christ before it's too late.

If the Pre-Wrath or Mid-Tribulation or Post-Tribulation Rapture view was accurate, a simple study of Daniel's 70th Week would then show you exactly when Yahshua(Jesus) is returning for the 2nd Coming. All you have to do is note when the Antichrist's 7 year peace treaty with Israel is signed, or note just when the Antichrist's abomination of desolation in the new Jewish Temple happens, and you can compute the exact day of our Lord's 2nd Coming. No imminency there. No need to always live a righteous life there. You could then just sin and sin and wait around until the last day before Christ's return and then repent and be good. Based on my understanding of the Bible, I just don't think it works like that.

And whoever said that everyone must suffer through the Tribulation to be purified?, or to do XYZ good works in the Tribulation to get saved?

Ephesians 2:7-9
7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Yahshua(Jesus).
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

What about everyone who has died already who didn't suffer any hardships at all? By some people's definition, they are not saved because they have suffered no great tribulation. That just doesn't make any sense. Yahshua(Jesus) said that we would be delivered from the time and hour of God's judgment to "those who dwell on the earth." His great judgment is for those who have rejected Yahshua(Jesus), not for His children. Satan has given Christians plenty of tribulation over the years, and continues to do so even today.

[link to www.persecution.com]

Revelation 3:10 (KJV)
10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

That is the 'Blessed Hope!'

Titus 2:13 (KJV)
13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Yahshua(Jesus) Christ

Maranatha!

Peace.

[link to www.gotquestions.org]
[link to www.raptureme.com]
[link to www.gotquestions.org]
[link to www.gotquestions.org]
[link to www.raptureforums.com]
[link to www.raptureforums.com]

Sorry, the message of this thread isn't for you. Obviously, you are blind to it. Others will find it informative and realize that it is truth.

Going by the sheer amount of rapture fails...and every one of the claiming God told them...it cannot possibly be of god.

Because God CANNOT LIE.

But decieving spirits pretending to be God can and do and HAVE.

But after each fail these retards dont even apolagise and be humble...they just keep heeding the voices of lies and make yet another thread...and once more spend all their time chrsing and condemning any and all who disagree with them.

Ya cant get more retarded than that.

They are worse than nibtards and flat earth tards combined.

I seriously believe that you might be demonically possessed.


Obviously, men predicting things God says not to predict

means they are not listening to God

and are not obeying God

and not believing God

and certainly not quoting God.

Obviously.

Yet you rage every waking hour and every thousands of posts

and then one day

if you live long enough

maybe you will see

the day that the Rapture happens.