The obsession to find truth, can also become an inability to see truth.

I agree with this.

This guy Luke Swan though clearly implied that there is no duality, and thus no real difference between good and evil.

That is all I am saying, but OP here keeps saying things like "people wouldn't be as awake if it wasn't for all the bad things happening" implying that evil somehow leads to good.

This is just a lie, and likely one planted by TPTB to usher in a world of chaos.

Hehe im starting to belive that you are a troll now =) But its fun talking to you so i dont mind really.

Your perception is that he said that, remember that, its all it is, your perception.

Also i never said that evil always leads to good, but im saying that it can, and that it does, very often. Not all evil creates good, but much evil does.

This evil world has woken people up from ignorance.

Love and fear is not the same, but the one can lead to actions leading to the other.

Stop looking at things so absolute mate =)

The triggers behind evil are endless.
The triggers behind love are endless.

I am just trying to prove ONE of the triggers, and you keep making it into an absolute statement.

Evil has woken MANY people up!
And evil has failed to wake many people up.

Some wake up from some things, and some wake up from others.


People have by studying this evil world learned their own evilness. They have reached a greater understanding, all by looking into evil.

And this has NOTHING to do with justifying evil.

This is about being honest about WHAT IS!

Last Edited by DontBeAfraidEVER on 03/31/2013 10:43 AM

I don't have an issue with someone claiming that we need to make changed within. Did I ever disagree with this?

If you look at my posts I have repeatedly disagreed with OP's claims that bad things in the world are beneficial.

He refuses to address my arguments though, and just keeps making the same idiotic statement again and again in slightly different ways.

What the world needs is the absence of evil, that's pretty much it. The more that happens then the better things will get, they will not get better because of evilness.

Evil=the problem.

Good=the solution.

TPTB have hijacked this though as they always do, claiming that they are the good and the solution. But like with pretty much everything else they do it is a damn lie. They want you to think that their evil vision of the future is actually good and the answer, it's pretty much that simple.

"Also i never said that evil leads to good, but im saying that it can, and that it does, very often"???

Are you fucking serious lol?

You just said it now then!

Go join the Freemasons in my opinion, you would fit right in. They would probably fast track you to the 33 degree!

I am no troll, and you are just getting upset because I am crushing you here.

I did warn you that you were arguing a flawed position didn't I though?

You should have listened.

Again you are making everything into absolutes!

I have never said this, i have sad that sometimes evil can waken up the good in people.

I have not said that bad things are beneficial and that we should keep them and not solve anything.

You are saying that a bad thing NEVER triggered a good thing, while i on the other side say that in many cases it did.

Im not saying that its ABSOLUTE i am saying that its POSSIBLE and that its HAPPENING!

OP let's all go do evil things then since it will lead to good?

Are you serious with this bullshit?

Whatever you say dear =)

Can a forest fire(bad thing), make more fertile soil(beneficial)?

Never said this?

No i am not saying that we shall create evil things dear =)

I am saying that the sad truth is that this world contains a lot of evil, now this BAD!

But on the other side, on a different perspective this evil has not ONLY brought us misery it has also brought us a clearer mind. Which is GOOD!

I dont want more evil, i am saying that we can learn from the evil that already is, so that we one day can overcome it.

Thats what i say sunshine =)

I wouldn't consider a forest fire as an evil thing, would you?

To me evil is about morality, and there is none with a forest fire being started naturally.

If someone set a forest fire in an act of arson I would say that is probably evil, since it would likely be for sinister and morally questionable reasons.

Sometimes the department of forestry will set a fire to literally stop a fire though. It creates an area that the massive fire can't burn through since it's already burned, and it will die out.

It's all about intent I think.

A forest fire created by lightning or something isn't evil though is it, so I don't really get your point?

No misery isn't good, you are wrong I am sorry. If there wasn't any misery in the first place then you would already have a clear mind.

You have fallen into the trap that there is no duality, and that evil is necessary to awaken people to good or whatever. Its all a bunch of bullshit, and I feel sorry you for having been deceived by it.

I am done with you, since you just keep regurgitating the same nonsense again and again.

I used it in the context you put forth, and I quote you "If you look at my posts I have repeatedly disagreed with OP's claims that bad things in the world are beneficial."

If there wasnt any misery in the first place is sadly not an option we can choose!

We have to deal with the reality! The reality is that we do have a lot of misery in this world. These things do not simply go away if we dont do anything about them.

I am not saying that evil is NECESSARY for people to wake up i am saying that its a trigger for many many people. Again you keep making my statements into absolutes.

Like i said earlier.

The triggers behind love is millions.
The triggers behind evil is millions.

Nobody wants evil, but when evil first is here then we have to understand it to get rid of it.

Thats ALL im saying, nothing more, nothing less =)

OK I probably should have said evil and not bad there, sorry.

But I wouldn't consider a forest fire started naturally a bad thing either, so my point is basically the same.

This quote right here pretty much sums it up folks.

OP says that much evil creates good, it's right here in black and white.

How sick and twisted is this I ask you?

I bet the TPTB would love your ass OP, you can join them and make the world a better place by spreading "much evil" together.

Well, someone with a house about to go up in flames would consider it to be a bad thing. lol

Why do you refuse to listen to what i say?

Last Edited by DontBeAfraidEVER on 03/31/2013 11:11 AM

Ya good point, and I was just thinking that this one could be rather subjective.

But can nature be bad or evil lol?

That is something I don't think I ever really though about.

Can a bolt of lightning be bad or evil for example?

Keep following where you are going....you may be onto something!

I think that to most people there would be a pretty clear difference between bad and evil.

It's common for people to say "I am having a bad day", but have you ever heard someone say "I am having an evil day?"

To me evil deals more with morality, where bad is a much broader term.

If your house was about to be burned down by a forest fire would you say "this is bad" or "this is not good" or would you say "this is evil?"

This is a line from what Wikipedia says about evil:

"Evil is profound immorality.[1] In certain religious contexts evil has been described as a supernatural force."

Doing a look up of bad in one online dictionary there was like 16 different definitions for it, implying a much broader meaning.

Like you could say "I have a bad cold", but how strange would it sound to say "I have an evil cold?"

Bad can simply mean "severe" for example, which has pretty much nothing to do with morality.

Like I said, 'maybe' you're onto something.
lol
In a perfect world, there would be stagnation. There can be no growth in a perfect world.

I am starting to really think that evil is in fact a supernatural force.

There is such a clear difference from goodness as well, that it is likely a separate force.

Of all this oneness stuff that the New Age pushes, I have issue with the claim that good and evil are the same and that there is no duality.

Good and evil are in fact part of the universe that we live in, but that does not mean they are the same.

Just like me and you are part of the same universe, but we are still unique expressions none the less.

My thoughts are not the same as others, so clearly I am a unique individual.

David dIcke says that we are all one consciousness, but he can't really prove this now can he? My thoughts are usually quite unique from others, so I don't really see how I could be the exact same consciousness as others.

He says himself that he is just sharing information from his point of view, and that you should not blindly believe him.

He also says that the Moon and Saturn are transmitting a false reality that affects us. Can he prove this though? I don't think so, especially not at this point. He may be right and he may be wrong, but we just don't know.

If we were all one consciousness, then it may only be in our natural state? As in some negative force (evil) has hijacked people's consciousness (willingly no doubt) thus preventing them from being their true (good) self?

Maybe that's the game, that you have to resist this evilness thus realizing your true self?

I know this is pretty out there, it's just what this thread has led me to think though.

If people want to admit it or not there is something that invites us to do evil things, and we need to choose to follow it or not. This does very much seem to be a type of supernatural force of some kind.

What 'invites' us to do evil deeds is the lack of self-knowledge. What the ancients referred to as 'satan' is the subconscious self or the shadow. We all have a conscious self and a subconscious self. The subconscious self is where all we hate, fear, deny and repress within ourselves dwells. The Inner Journey involves going within and discovering these parts of ourselves and OWNING them. If we cast them out, we end up with more b.s. Even in the New Testament, it was said that to cast out a demon usually allowed more to enter. If you deny you have hatred(we all do), then we add another level to it....denial. Self-knowledge is the greatest knowledge. Becoming WHOLE is what we are all here to do. It is no easy task. The inner journey is too scary for most people. Hence the saying, many are called; but few chosen and that it is the 'narrow path few find.' If everyone took this journey, the world would be transformed. I guarantee it.

still trying to reach common ground :))))))) let go

you had me at the title



the rest was too many words however

This is interesting I won't lie, but you can't really back this up can you?

We all have a subconscious, so you are saying that "Satan" is inside of us naturally?

I think that the subconscious is more like a hard drive that our mind pulls data from, with RAM being our conscious self. It can be loaded with garbage or good stuff, and what we allow into it affects us.

But where is the evil coming from?

Inside us? I find that hard to believe.

I don't believe that I am inherently evil by nature, it seems quite the opposite in fact. I usually mean very well, but often feel that some outside influence is inviting me to do evil things.

All that stuff about shadow, etc. sounds a lot like what Michael Tsarion says, and I think some of what he talks about is bullshit.

He claims that you have to accept the evil inside of you to do "psychic cleansing" etc. which is bullshit in my opinion.

This is a lot like what Aleister Crowley said, and I know for a fact that Tsarion is a big fan of his. It's very likely that Crowley sacrificed human beings to do his "shadow work" and I refuse to accept that it was OK since he was just "exploring his dark side."

Denial is a very real thing, I won't argue that with you. But there is a difference between denying something thus causing problems for you and giving in to something (evil).

Crowley was quoted as saying things like:

"I was not content to believe in a personal devil and serve him, in the ordinary sense of the word. I wanted to get hold of him personally and become his chief of staff."

"I want blasphemy, murder, rape, revolution, anything, bad or good, but strong."

He is calling for rape and murder, really?

The man was clearly a piece of shit. His morality was simply disgusting, and there is no telling just how many evil deeds he did while exploring the depths of it.

I know you will probably say this isn't what you meant, but he sure as hell didn't deny his inner demons now did he?

My mother on the other hand is pretty much a saint, and she does in fact cast out her inner demons and shuns the very appearance of evil.

Go figure!

Have you ever had an overreaction to a situation? Somebody does or says something, you react and then wonder 'what made me do/say that?' That, my friend, is your shadow. When it's not integrated into your consciousness....it really runs amuck. lol All it takes is a trigger. All the ancients believed this as well. KNOW THYSELF was their most important message. All ancient initiations involved an inner journey. Christ says, "Clean the inside of the cup; then the whole cup will be clean." He also claims that the 'kingdom is within man'. You should read some of Carl Jung. His work was all about the shadow, and how its integration was like drinking from an eternally welling spring within oneself. I can back it up PERSONALLY.