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Timing belt slipped while I was on my way home tonight... Car might be screwed.

 
Naunet

User ID: 75919805
Canada
09/04/2022 02:00 PM

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Re: Timing belt slipped while I was on my way home tonight... Car might be screwed.
If it's SOHC, then you'll be fine...

If it's DOHC, then you bent your valves by trying to restart it...

smoking1
 Quoting: DuckNCover


if the engine isn't a "noninterference engine"

then valve(s) would have gotten bent when it popped the timing belt

sometimes a valve will punch a hole in the top of the piston
(°ö°)
Swirl Life
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 83988712
United Kingdom
09/04/2022 02:29 PM
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Re: Timing belt slipped while I was on my way home tonight... Car might be screwed.
So just price getting a remanufactured head installed, or simply repairing what you have.

It's even cheaper if you can do it yourself.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 84065887


Too late for that, pistons don't like being kissed.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 81105157


This. NEVER buy an interference engine. Why ask for trouble?
 Quoting: Pilgrim001


Most overhead camshaft engines from the late 90's onwards are interference.

It's the only way to make good horsepower and fuel efficiency.

Otherwise we'd be stuck with feeble engines making less than 50 bhp per litre like the malaise era.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 84065887
United States
09/04/2022 03:28 PM
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Re: Timing belt slipped while I was on my way home tonight... Car might be screwed.
So just price getting a remanufactured head installed, or simply repairing what you have.

It's even cheaper if you can do it yourself.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 84065887


Too late for that, pistons don't like being kissed.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 81105157


This. NEVER buy an interference engine. Why ask for trouble?
 Quoting: Pilgrim001


Most overhead camshaft engines from the late 90's onwards are interference.

It's the only way to make good horsepower and fuel efficiency.

Otherwise we'd be stuck with feeble engines making less than 50 bhp per litre like the malaise era.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 83988712


Most, is a word people should avoid using unless they are sure.

Plenty of non-interference engines.

[link to yourcarangel.com]
Lost Pottawatomi

User ID: 72732207
United States
09/04/2022 05:35 PM
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Re: Timing belt slipped while I was on my way home tonight... Car might be screwed.
I agree with pulling the head first, and hoping you can just go with a new head/valves already built.

No way to see piston tops otherwise and at this mileage, could use new head anyway.

If the pistons are seen to be toast, pulling a short block isn't any harder than a dressed engine.

Last Edited by Lost Pottawatomi on 09/04/2022 05:35 PM
Nothing shall be so certain as to permit confusion.
eyeDR3  (OP)

User ID: 79828781
United States
09/04/2022 08:36 PM
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Re: Timing belt slipped while I was on my way home tonight... Car might be screwed.
I agree with pulling the head first, and hoping you can just go with a new head/valves already built.

No way to see piston tops otherwise and at this mileage, could use new head anyway.

If the pistons are seen to be toast, pulling a short block isn't any harder than a dressed engine.
 Quoting: Lost Pottawatomi


You're right.

I've got the cam cover off (no typical valve covers), took out the cams and got the intake and exhaust manifolds removed.

I think now it's just the 12 head bolts about to come loose. This is the point of no return so to speak lol

But so was running the car out of time haha

So my hope is only valves on intake or exhaust side are bent but I have a feeling all 20 would be since I tried to start it one more time after it died.

Might be wise to go ahead and have the head surfaced anyway even though it never overheated. I'm already all the way in here.

So my whole point I've been trying to make the entire time is that we've done most of the labor already and it's literally cost absolutely nothing thus far. Even if I need to have somebody else fix the valves I've saved a tremendous amount of the cost already and while some stuff was a bitch, it hasn't been that bad at all.

I can't wait to see the piston heads to see if they're that bad. They truly shouldn't be more than a bit scuffed.
:memorybanner:
eyeDR3  (OP)

User ID: 79828781
United States
09/04/2022 08:39 PM
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Re: Timing belt slipped while I was on my way home tonight... Car might be screwed.
I think I'll go ahead and replace the motor mounts too while I'm at it.

I really wish I could find a strut brace bar that's the only thing that is getting tougher to find. Might tighten the handling a bit. People seem to love it.
:memorybanner:
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 84065887
United States
09/04/2022 08:50 PM
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Re: Timing belt slipped while I was on my way home tonight... Car might be screwed.
If the belt came completely off, cams stopped turning, then cranking it probably didn't do more damage.
Pilgrim001

User ID: 82713236
United States
09/04/2022 10:10 PM

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Re: Timing belt slipped while I was on my way home tonight... Car might be screwed.
So just price getting a remanufactured head installed, or simply repairing what you have.

It's even cheaper if you can do it yourself.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 84065887


Too late for that, pistons don't like being kissed.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 81105157


This. NEVER buy an interference engine. Why ask for trouble?
 Quoting: Pilgrim001


Most overhead camshaft engines from the late 90's onwards are interference.

It's the only way to make good horsepower and fuel efficiency.

Otherwise we'd be stuck with feeble engines making less than 50 bhp per litre like the malaise era.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 83988712


Most Mazdas and Toyotas are non-interference engines.

[link to yourcarangel.com]
Check before you buy. Most Nissons ARE interference.
I don't have the time or the crayons to explain this to you.



Slake Blake
Pilgrim001

User ID: 82713236
United States
09/04/2022 10:14 PM

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Re: Timing belt slipped while I was on my way home tonight... Car might be screwed.
...


Too late for that, pistons don't like being kissed.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 81105157


This. NEVER buy an interference engine. Why ask for trouble?
 Quoting: Pilgrim001


Most overhead camshaft engines from the late 90's onwards are interference.

It's the only way to make good horsepower and fuel efficiency.

Otherwise we'd be stuck with feeble engines making less than 50 bhp per litre like the malaise era.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 83988712


Most Mazdas and Toyotas are non-interference engines.

[link to yourcarangel.com]
Check before you buy. Most Nissons ARE interference.
 Quoting: Pilgrim001


Without even checking for interference, I won't buy a car with a timing belt. It's chain or nothing.
I don't have the time or the crayons to explain this to you.



Slake Blake
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User ID: 83635896
United States
09/04/2022 10:16 PM
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Re: Timing belt slipped while I was on my way home tonight... Car might be screwed.
The question now is whether you have what they call a zero clearance/interference engine or not. If no, it's probably not going to be too awful, if it is yerr fucked. pope

Try doing some maintenance on your car from now on. 3334
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 81105157


I do maintenance it's just absolutely wild to me that that little bit of pressure from that hose on the timing cover could cause something so drastic.

It is an interference engine lol

2000 Volvo v70 2.4l in line 5 cylinder.

I believe it's a B5244S engine. Naturally aspirated.

Timing was done at 90000 and it's at 154000.

Just absolutely sucks ya know?

Hands in the air tonight lol
 Quoting: eyeDR3


No biggie. You're just in for a valve job, with new valves.

Then you'll have a fresh head gasket to boot.

Anonymous Coward
User ID: 83635896
United States
09/04/2022 10:20 PM
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Re: Timing belt slipped while I was on my way home tonight... Car might be screwed.
My buddy and coworker just had this happen with his Eagle Talon. I told him there was no chance he didn't bend the valves, he didn't believe me and put a timing belt on it.

He hit the starter.. WHEEEWEEEEWEEEE POW! No compression, big backfire.
eyeDR3  (OP)

User ID: 82694641
United States
09/04/2022 10:36 PM
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Re: Timing belt slipped while I was on my way home tonight... Car might be screwed.
My buddy and coworker just had this happen with his Eagle Talon. I told him there was no chance he didn't bend the valves, he didn't believe me and put a timing belt on it.

He hit the starter.. WHEEEWEEEEWEEEE POW! No compression, big backfire.
 Quoting: DieselTech


Eeeek I feel the pain!

Yeah I would not risk it.

Valve job over completely blown engine any day!
:memorybanner:
eyeDR3  (OP)

User ID: 82694641
United States
09/04/2022 10:37 PM
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Re: Timing belt slipped while I was on my way home tonight... Car might be screwed.
Thanks to everyone for input! I'll post updates when I can get it all done.

I hope variable valve timing isn't too bad.
:memorybanner:
Lost Pottawatomi

User ID: 72455862
United States
09/04/2022 10:39 PM
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Re: Timing belt slipped while I was on my way home tonight... Car might be screwed.
If the belt just jumped one tooth, maybe no valve piston kiss.

If the belt broke but engine stopped quickly, valves are toast in interference engine, but piston tops banged only a few times, don't really need changing.

Cranking probably didn't hurt, or make anything worse than when it was coming to a stop
Nothing shall be so certain as to permit confusion.
eyeDR3  (OP)

User ID: 82694641
United States
09/04/2022 10:55 PM
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Re: Timing belt slipped while I was on my way home tonight... Car might be screwed.
If the belt just jumped one tooth, maybe no valve piston kiss.

If the belt broke but engine stopped quickly, valves are toast in interference engine, but piston tops banged only a few times, don't really need changing.

Cranking probably didn't hurt, or make anything worse than when it was coming to a stop
 Quoting: Lost Pottawatomi


I agree.

I'll see the piston tops tomorrow.

It all happened so quickly I can't imagine it was TOO catastrophic.
:memorybanner:
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 77915568
United States
09/04/2022 11:06 PM
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Re: Timing belt slipped while I was on my way home tonight... Car might be screwed.
timing jobs can be tricky op even when you have a shop do them they can still miss up after a few miles again
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 78363501
United States
09/04/2022 11:15 PM
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Re: Timing belt slipped while I was on my way home tonight... Car might be screwed.
The timing chain and water pump took a crap on my 2011 Ford Explorer. I almost fell over when the shop gave me the estimate. $4000+. They said the parts weren't that expensive, but due to a design flaw they had to take half the engine apart to get to it. Luckily this was during the lockdown when I was getting major $$$ from unemployment and I was able to pay for the repair. They said alot of these vehicles go to the bone yard when the timing chain fails because people can't afford the repair.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 83818604
09/04/2022 11:16 PM
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Re: Timing belt slipped while I was on my way home tonight... Car might be screwed.
It's over
messagehalted

User ID: 84033116
United States
09/04/2022 11:17 PM

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Re: Timing belt slipped while I was on my way home tonight... Car might be screwed.
break it down take the head off / Put new valves in it if the pistons arent busted and a timing belt.

iv had a valve drop into a cylinder before and run 10 seconds. It just broke the valve head off and pinged the piston. Put a new head and ran perfect.

Last Edited by messagehalted on 09/04/2022 11:20 PM
All my post are theatrical artistic writing .
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 84065887
United States
09/05/2022 12:11 AM
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Re: Timing belt slipped while I was on my way home tonight... Car might be screwed.
The timing chain and water pump took a crap on my 2011 Ford Explorer. I almost fell over when the shop gave me the estimate. $4000+. They said the parts weren't that expensive, but due to a design flaw they had to take half the engine apart to get to it. Luckily this was during the lockdown when I was getting major $$$ from unemployment and I was able to pay for the repair. They said alot of these vehicles go to the bone yard when the timing chain fails because people can't afford the repair.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 78363501


Certain V6 Ford's have two timing chains, one in front and one inside the rear of engine. Not a simple job, I'd never buy one.

Don't buy the 32 valve Ford 5.4 either. They run amazing but what a clusterfrack when the cam phasers, timing chains, and tensioners wear out. Not to mention the spark plugs blowing out or breaking off. Cubic dollars of repair may only last a day.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 84065887
United States
09/05/2022 12:14 AM
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Re: Timing belt slipped while I was on my way home tonight... Car might be screwed.
OP, if the pistons survived, if there are any sharp edges on a nick from the valve hitting, try to smooth those sharp edges. Don't have to remove the nicks, just any raised sharp edges.
Keilani

User ID: 83107670
United States
09/05/2022 12:31 AM

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Re: Timing belt slipped while I was on my way home tonight... Car might be screwed.
I feel for you. I had that happen on two of my Hondas, lost them both, was not a happy camper as other than that the car was perfect. Even though they use timing chains now on Honda that left a bad impression on me.
Lost Pottawatomi

User ID: 72455862
United States
09/05/2022 12:52 AM
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Re: Timing belt slipped while I was on my way home tonight... Car might be screwed.
OP, if the pistons survived, if there are any sharp edges on a nick from the valve hitting, try to smooth those sharp edges. Don't have to remove the nicks, just any raised sharp edges.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 84065887


Yes.
Raised sharp places would become hot spots that might lead to cylinder detonation.
Nothing shall be so certain as to permit confusion.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 84065887
United States
09/05/2022 01:32 AM
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Re: Timing belt slipped while I was on my way home tonight... Car might be screwed.
OP, if the pistons survived, if there are any sharp edges on a nick from the valve hitting, try to smooth those sharp edges. Don't have to remove the nicks, just any raised sharp edges.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 84065887


Yes.
Raised sharp places would become hot spots that might lead to cylinder detonation.
 Quoting: Lost Pottawatomi


Exactly.

Had a new engine swallow a small carb screw which embedded in a piston. Retrieved the screw, put it back together without taking care of those sharp edges. Years later that piston got a hole melted through the top.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 83635896
United States
09/05/2022 08:44 AM
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Re: Timing belt slipped while I was on my way home tonight... Car might be screwed.
The timing chain and water pump took a crap on my 2011 Ford Explorer. I almost fell over when the shop gave me the estimate. $4000+. They said the parts weren't that expensive, but due to a design flaw they had to take half the engine apart to get to it. Luckily this was during the lockdown when I was getting major $$$ from unemployment and I was able to pay for the repair. They said alot of these vehicles go to the bone yard when the timing chain fails because people can't afford the repair.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 78363501


Yep. That 4.0 SOHC is a goddamn nightmare to work on. You're pulling the engine to do the timing chains.
eyeDR3  (OP)

User ID: 79828781
United States
09/05/2022 06:53 PM
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Re: Timing belt slipped while I was on my way home tonight... Car might be screwed.
Okay so we got the head off!

Wasn't the worst thing I've ever done on a car.

Anyway, all 20 valves (10 intake 10 exhaust) are bent it appears. The piston heads have slight marking but not too bad at all (valve bending is pretty standard not too heavy an angle at all)I know I should clean those up so there are no sharp edges to avoid predetonation.

I'll put pictures here as soon as I can. Imgur takes FOREVER to upload photos for no good reason.

Gonna get the head checked and new valves.

New gaskets all around.

Now is when the wallet comes out.
:memorybanner:
Anonymous Coward
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09/05/2022 08:06 PM
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Re: Timing belt slipped while I was on my way home tonight... Car might be screwed.
Okay so we got the head off!

Wasn't the worst thing I've ever done on a car.

Anyway, all 20 valves (10 intake 10 exhaust) are bent it appears. The piston heads have slight marking but not too bad at all (valve bending is pretty standard not too heavy an angle at all)I know I should clean those up so there are no sharp edges to avoid predetonation.

I'll put pictures here as soon as I can. Imgur takes FOREVER to upload photos for no good reason.

Gonna get the head checked and new valves.

New gaskets all around.

Now is when the wallet comes out.
 Quoting: eyeDR3


Head gasket, valve job, and a wallet flush!
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 77815242
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09/05/2022 08:22 PM
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Re: Timing belt slipped while I was on my way home tonight... Car might be screwed.
My engine might be capoot. It's my work vehicle also.

What happened was the power steering pump reservoir to pump hose was rubbing against the serpentine belt right at the power steering pump, so I pulled it up and zip tied it and that seemed to work. Otherwise it would soon have sprayed power steering fluid everywhere.

The hose apparently was putting pressure on the timing cover which allowed the cam sprockets to rub the cover to a melting point. This in turn must have made the belt slip off of the tensioner pulley.

I just lost power, pulled over and made one potentially very expensive mistake... I tried to start the car. I could hear that belt sound and immediately stopped. Code was p0339 but upon visual inspection the belt is bent out at the tensioner. It was alarmingly loose but still on gears...

I dunno... It's so weird. Everyone complements this car lately. I love this car... Then this happens.

OMG the thought of a new car is terrifying right now and I simply don't have that money right now...

Any prayer is certainly appreciated.

Sigh.
 Quoting: eyeDR3


Bad news- its toast. Maybe just a new head if your lucky.
You near Illinois? I have an 02 V0xc in great shape Im getting ready to sell!
Asymptote

User ID: 80072683
United States
09/05/2022 08:47 PM

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Re: Timing belt slipped while I was on my way home tonight... Car might be screwed.
I've had my share of timing belt problems. Made me cautious whenever helping the kids pick out a beater I make sure the engine is either non-inteference or has a timing chain rather than a belt.

That being said, daughter just got herself an 04 civic and the day after picking it up it went to my mechanic who checked the timing belt (it was changed and the mechanic who did it dated and listed the mileage....damn, everyone should do that!!)
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