Jude 1:5 "Jesus Led the Israelites"? No Other Verses Say So - KJV Bible Study

Paul agrees with the translation:

1 Corinthians 10:4
and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that Rock was Christ.

Acts 7 - Stephen agrees it was God (the Father) who brought out the Israelites from Egypt

30 - And when forty years were expired, there appeared to him in the wilderness of mount Sina an angel of the Lord in a flame of fire in a bush.

31 - When Moses saw it, he wondered at the sight: and as he drew near to behold it, the voice of the Lord came unto him,

32 - Saying, I am the God of thy fathers, the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. Then Moses trembled, and durst not behold.

33 - Then said the Lord to him, Put off thy shoes from thy feet: for the place where thou standest is holy ground.

34 - I have seen, I have seen the affliction of my people which is in Egypt, and I have heard their groaning, and am come down to deliver them. And now come, I will send thee into Egypt.

35 - This Moses whom they refused, saying, Who made thee a ruler and a judge? the same did God send to be a ruler and a deliverer by the hand of the angel which appeared to him in the bush.

36 - He brought them out, after that he had shewed wonders and signs in the land of Egypt, and in the Red sea, and in the wilderness forty years.

1. Isaiah states that Jehovah is the Father. Not Jesus.

Isaiah states that God is both Father and His nmae is Jehovah.

Isaiah 12:2 Behold, God is my salvation; I will trust, and not be afraid: for the LORD JEHOVAH is my strength and my song; he also is become my salvation.
Isaiah 26:4 Trust ye in the LORD for ever: for in the LORD JEHOVAH is everlasting strength.

Isaiah also says the LORD - God - is the Father.

Isaiah 63:16 - Doubtless thou art our father, though Abraham be ignorant of us, and Israel acknowledge us not: thou, O LORD, art our father, our redeemer; thy name is from everlasting.
Isaiah 64:8 - But now, O LORD, thou art our father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand.

.....
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Father God tells Isaiah about Egypt in both current and past tense.

"Egypt" occurs 41 times in Isaiah in the KJV.

[link to www.blueletterbible.org (secure)]

The verse has nothing to do with Jesus being the one who lef the Israelites out of Egypt.

NOTHING

Where does Jesus claim that He was the one who spoke to Moses at the burning bush?

Where does Jesus claim that He was the one who led the Israelites out of Egypt?

NOWHERE

3. Further evidence against Jude 1:5 being "Jesus" is in Jude 1:4.
It mentions both Father God and Jesus.

Jude 1:4 - For there are certain men crept in unawares,
who were before of old ordained to this condemnation,
ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness,
and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

Thats why some translations of Jude 1:5 say "the Lord".

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[link to www.blueletterbible.org (secure)]

These scriptures prove that manuscripts that say "Jesus" in Jude 1:5 are wrong / manipulated.

So it was Father God in Egypt.

In Hebrews God the Father talks about HIs Son:

"But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom."

God the Father clearly calls Jesus "God"

Hebrews 1:8

What does this have to do with the Exodus?
Kindly stay on topic.

1. Jesus made NO claim to being with the Israelites.

2. Jesus says the Father is...
- "the one true God" John 17:3
- "My God and YOUR God" John 20:17

Thread: Son of God - Jesus' Relationship To The Father - John 17 and More - Bible Study

The "Jesus is the I AM" folks would argue that since "Jesus is THE Word" - that the Father NEVER speaks to humans.

This is wrong - and scripture proves such.

0. The Father does speak to humans.
He spoke from Heaven in THESE passages...

- John 12:28

- the Baptism of Jesus (Matthew 4:1-11, Mark 1:9–11, Luke 3:21, 22, John 1:29–34)

- the Transfiguration of Jesus (Matthew 16:28—17:13, Mark 9:1-10, Luke 9:27–36, 2 Peter 1:16–18)

don't know,... which was it in the original text ?

Last Edited by luke the duke on 03/21/2021 06:49 PM

No one knows for sure WHAT the Apostles originally wrote for any of the books of the New Testament, as the original manyscripsts, called "autographs", have been lost to time.

The oldest known one for Jude is 300 AD.

[link to biblequery.org (secure)]

An entry on the page for verse 5 reads...

Jude 5 "Lord" vs. "God" vs. "Jesus" vs. "Christ"

"Lord" is in original Sinaiticus, Athos (8th/9th century), Ephraemi Rescriptus (5th century), Harclean Syriac),

"God" is in Philoxenian Syriac, one Italic, Armenian, Georgian, 2nd corrector Ephraemi Rescriptus p72 (=Bodmer 7/8) ca.300 A.D.,

"Jesus" Vaticanus, Alexandrinus, many Italic, Ethiopic, Origen, Jerome, Cyril, (Bohairic Coptic) (Sahidic Coptic) (parentheses in Aland et al. 4th revised edition)

"Lord" Ephraem, Moscow 9th century, Byzantine Lectionary,

Last Edited by Servant-of-the-LORD on 03/21/2021 08:44 PM

Mark 12 (mirrors Luke 20)

26 And as touching the dead, that they
rise:
have ye not read in the book of Moses,

how in the bush God spake unto him, saying,

I am the God of Abraham,
and the God of Isaac,
and the God of Jacob?

27 He is not the God of the dead,
but
the God of the living:
ye therefore do greatly err.

Corinthians 1:10

“Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.”

King James Version (KJV)



The kjv used greek text dating to year 100

Never heard of such a thing. It must be because the words ‘the Lord’ are used to refer to Jesus in other NT verses and some translators assumed ‘the Lord’ should also mean Jesus here.

The way my simple mind sees it, God is unknowable, he can't be seen or felt or heard or touched by humans.

Jesus is The Word of God, or as I like to think of it, the 'Interface' that allows God to interact with humans on our level.

So if a human ever saw or heard God, it was Jesus.

Says who?
Where are you getting the information for that "statement?

That's John doing his best to "honour" Jesus.

Jesus was GIVEN "the Gospel" by the Father.
Likewise the Revelation, as stated in Revelation 1:1.

Jesus own words...

John 12:49-50

49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment,

what I should say, and what I should speak.

50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even

as the Father said unto me, so I speak.

Yet the Father DOES speak to humans.

There are 3 times in the New Testament when Father God speaks from Heaven.

1. John 12 (Jesus tells of His upcoming death)
2. At Jesus' Baptism. Matthew 3:17, Mark 1:11, Luke 3:22 & John 1:33
3. At Jesus' Transfiguration Matthew 17:5, Mark 9:7 & Luke 9:35

2 Peter 1:16-18

16 - For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.

17 - For he received from God the Father honour and
glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory,

This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

18 - And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.

Last Edited by Servant-of-the-LORD on 03/22/2021 04:12 PM

When it comes to the Western Canon Bible, I'm taking the blue pill from here on out.
Seek and love the Lord with all your heart and mind, and love your neighbor as (you should love)yourself. Out of those two hang the rest. The Gospel.

I've been raised Christian, and it has been so confusing that it's defeating, causing division.
And since God is not the author of confusion, and that definition comes from itself, well, my mental gymnastics can only go so far.
I don't need the churches that walk in deception and disobedience to dictate inerrancy because heresay passed around the room for decades on the opinion of a guy who went to seminary and got his opinion handed to him.

The Bible should not be a code; if it is living and truth, it will reveal itself as the Spirit inclines through an open and right heart.
The mysteries therein should be discerned primarily through the Holy Spirit, or Ruach if you prefer.
I won't record my words as truth, but opinion.
I do not trust that man has kept from corrupting the scriptures, either intentionally or not, and there is no way on earth for a man to know everything except what the Lord allows.
We see right here an example of something that seemingly makes no sense.
If Jesus is the Godhead, and as far as I'm concerned he's the Messiah, then what difference does it make?
Everything I needed to know I learned by the time I was 5, and the next 40 years have sucked.
Surely the Kingdom of Heaven is full of such as these, if we do not BECOME more like children, we will not enter through the narrow gate.
So while I will continue to read the Word, my focus is more on understanding the Torah and its context, the History of the Kings and prophets, the wisdom therein and the Gospels. As well as Enoch, Jasher, Esdras and others for supportive, including a dance through the book of Rolls and others.
Sometimes I wonder, actually OFTEN I wonder if my understanding of Paul's letters, James, Hebrews etc. is jaded because I'm in a war of deception.
Faith is bliss, and a Big beautiful God that created all and loves me so much he'd sacrifice His Son and all that He went through is sufficient for me.
I don't even know what age it is.
Have we been in Christs Kingdom for 1500 years, then Lucifer was let loose in the "ages of enlightenment"?
Now I have to contend with people who believe the world is flat, nuclear weapons are fake, trips to Mars are China, UAE, and USA conspiring to psyche the world while warring with each other.
No.
Blue Pill me so far as the Scriptures.
Just Jesus.

I'll leave codebreaking the Bible to those that can handle the infinite rabbit hole.

Father God was the one at Mt. Sinai

Proverbs 30:4 Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended?
who hath gathered the wind in his fists?
who hath bound the waters in a garment?
who hath established all the ends of the earth?

what is his name,

and what is his son's name,

if thou canst tell?

so, despite the oldest text saying so, you are claiming because other parts of the text don't also say so, it's not true?

the Acts between A.D 35-62 A.D

Book of Romans: 60 A.D

I Corinthians: 59 A.D
II Corinthians: 60 A.D

Galatians: 58 A.D

Esphesians: 64 A.D

Thessalonians: 54 A.D
II Thessalonians:54 A.D

I Timothy: 65 A.D
II Timothy: 66A.D

Titus: 65A.D

Philemon: 64 A.D

Hebrews: 64 A.D

James: 60 A.D

I Peter: 60 A.D
II Peter: 66 A.D

I John: 90 A.D
II John: 90 A.D
III John: 90 A.D

Jude: 66 A.D

The Revelations: 96 A.D
----------------------------------------------------------

Proverbs 30:4 Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son's name, if thou canst tell?

It's not your beliefs that matters OP. It's God's truth that matters.

Show me the verse where Jesus said ...
..."no man has heard the Father".

You can't. It doesn't exist.

Thread: Father God DOES Speak to Humans - God's Voice - KJV Bible Study

Read the ENTIRE thread - not just the first post.

In Luke 20 Jesus says it was God who spoke to Moses.
Jesus states the Father is God in John 17:3 and John 20:17.

NO other scripture places Jesus in Egypt.

I would bet the scribe made the error
based on how Jude 1:4 is worded.

The only place in the Old Testament where it's obvious that Jesus showed up physically was in Daniel - in the furnace -"Son of God".

Who TOLD Jesus what to say?

...the Father SENT me Said by Jesus 47 times
...I say what the Father has said. John 12:49-50

49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.

...The Father GAVE me the Revelation

Revelation 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

It's all Irrevelant

It's Just the Mystery of the TRIUNE

God The Father

God The Son

God The Holy Spirit

Three Seperate Personages within ONE god.

Jesus is just the part of God that humbled himself in the flesh.

It is all god. Jesus is in the Father, the Father in him as he stated. The Holy Spirit procedes from the Father and Son to the rest of creatures and Creation and what makes, moves gives life breath etc to, it is God the Fathers energy power as such directed affecting the rest of creatures and creation.

The Only Part that is relevant to this Triune and your question, is just once when on this earth Jesus that Part of God equal, not seperate to, but out of love and obediance to the Father ( aka teaching to us how to have structure and how god likes things) experienced what we do, being seperate or feeling disoconnected from God (though we are not in reality that is Hell) when he called out why have you forsaken me in the passion. Jesus humbled himself to do that and it is as much a part of our salvation and continued grace as his wounds, ofcourse it was humility and obediance, he could have said "reset" no thanks Daddy this hurts, etc or im ascending now, or just laid waste to them all...so this mystery of the Triune doing that for and purely out of Love of the Son for the father and love of us is very profound.

Jesus is like the Heart of God.

Eternal Father is Like the Mind and Will.

The Holy Spirit is the muscles and the blood and the action and the sounds of the voice.

Though of course its just an anolgy what any one part of the Triune does, is all of the triune doing it indivisable.

Just the Mystery of the Triune, it's not really about the name.

It's irrevalant except for Philosophical reasons, and a bit of a rabbit hole, and lends no imho functions of helping the soul or others eventaully getting to there with the triune after death and making them ahppy now.

GodBless.

The mahjority of that verse is about the Father.
The last sentence is about Jesus.

Jesus is NOT the "I AM" of Exodus.
The Father is.

Thread: John 8:58 John 8:24 - "I am" means "I EXIST" from the Greek - KJV Bible Study