Notes from an "alternate universe": Introduction to the New Physical Dreamworld

Using the same representations would produce the same results.

Loan sharks are much more accepted than they could be in any civilized society. Any urban area has loads of them. Aren't they financial abortion clinics? Or suicide doctors?

These terms are ridiculous, and that is the point. If a loan shark is disguised as a "check cashing" facility, then that's how the people going to them refer to them. If it's a bank or credit card, then it is simply a bank with "high interest rates" instead of "suicide rates". The former are accepted representations.

If we cringe at referring to something by a ridiculous representation or making ridiculous associations can we say that we think of them as ridiculous?

If it is undesired then it can be associated with representations that are either shocking, unacceptable, or otherwise.

Once the representation is changed then the relationships will change along with them. The only question is what representations to use.

New words can be used for new concepts, or variations of a concept that were not before had.

New phrases can re-present what is already there and has a representation already.

It seems to be playing out in a way that is acceptable to society on the whole.

Yes, people may protest somewhat at what is happening now in certain places but things are not nearly as dramatically different (socially) as they could be.

In the US and UK in particular, people are not really protesting in the street. More people waited in line for iphones than protested against any of the recent government crimes.

The veil is lifting, though has not completely of course. (I think the scale is logarithmic, whereby every "percentage" increase of dreamworld permeation is an order of magnitude from the last. Like an earthquake, a 5.0 magnitude is 10x more than a 4.0. So while we're about 60% in the dreamworld now, we may not notice the change just yet.)

It will play out in a way that is relevant to you and part of your narrative for the change. It won't be the same narrative as someone else, of course, but the overall 'theme' should be the same.


I think the representations themselves are irrelevant. What matters is how the representations relate together.

If there is change happening in your reality then "Syria" will be irrelevant if you do not relate to it. The drama of "Syria" to others could be translated in your reality as something else. The names, faces, and places may be different but the essential way that the representations work together will be the same.

"Syria" is one interpretation of what is happening, not the change itself. War in Syria could be interpreted by someone else's reality as "conflict with mom" or something else.

But of course we do not experience the perspective we desire. We experience the perspective that is relative to us. (But we can use tools and methods to change what is relative.)


Indeed, the firm grip of the Western world (or, more accurately, what Western values have become) is the same as our own firm grip on a certain type of physicality.

That is not to say that Eastern values are better or more useful. Western values have also spread there, and there are plenty of beneficial Western values that many of us have forgotten.

The process is natural. It is not one to work against. But we can ask ourselves the question, "Where could we stand?" when it comes falling down, as is happening now.

We seek to uphold the illusions that are relevant to how we define ourselves. (A "lie" would presume that the truth of reality exists. As we said before, something can either be True or perceived, but not both. We cannot see beyond our own perspective and thus could have no possible conception of what is true or beyond this perspective, our unique take on whatever-it-is.)

Is it all an illusion, then? Yes, of course. But again the question is where do you want to stand, and what do you want to relate with?

Now that we are beginning to sense more of the nature of our reality and the world we live in, what does this mean for us?


Perhaps its nature is insecurity (i.e., 'security' is irrelevant to the nature of power). So making efforts to render it secure could be futile.


For numbers 9 and 10 you say that "all choice is lost", but how is it lost in #9 or 10 when it is the nature of physicality to be rigid? When a structure is weak it breaks down into its more basic elements. That's essentially what is happening now. We're still supported by a more basic and flexible structure, which is our subconscious. (The place where the illusion sprang from.)

If it is implied that one could not choose to remain in this reality, I would say that's fairly accurate. But only because another type of physicality is becoming more relevant. It's not a matter of choice but what is relative.

1-8 do not imply choice, but work to manage the relationships and change how things are relative to us now (thus making it more likely that it will be experienced).

But I think we are interpreting this process (i.e., "something is more relative") as choice rather than just how perspective works. I suppose you can say that we automatically experience a relative perspective.

(And "choice" is how we see the narrative of the process)

I find it interesting that the last "revolt" in the USA was before the internet was available to the masses. And Occupy Wallstreet was like a reality show. It seemed many of them were trying to make a name for themselves with all their production videos.

I saw a documentary on computer use at an early age. They showed babies that used tablets. One had a tablet in his crib and he used the carousel to find images he liked.

They also put piles of toys on one side of a room and a tablet on the other. Then, one at a time, babies and toddlers were set down on the floor, to see where the baby crawled to. They chose the tablet every time.......even if their mother was one of the choices.

I see pre-school kids in shopping carts all the time with a tablet. They are pre-occupied while their parents shop.Not a peep out of them.

We are all in trance while on computers.

Btw, since this thread started...am seeing threads like this pop up......

Thread: Fuck the modern world. 1960s home movies.

Here's what the OP said...

"These are when times were good. Simple, hard working people doing things as a family.No fucking computers, console games or cell phones."

Someone else posted a thread last night with a video taken in a 7-11 in the 80's and how friendly everyone was back then.

Last Edited by ERE3 on 06/25/2013 12:30 AM

Thank you.

I'd "hoped" to find a life-line at the last minute to sustain the "illusion" a "little longer". I've (within the last several years) finally began to really appreciate and seek to understand it to the best of my ability. It seems inevitable that it will fade and fall out of focus as the next perspective becomes more clear. I'm glad I had the opportunity to appreciate it before it was gone.

For "a while" now, I've felt as if my experience "here"(in the physical) was a springboard, as if the information I'd acquired "here" was the seed of a never ending journey of discovery. Lucid dreams, oob, the endless teachings and mystery getting ever closer to an understanding forever out of reach, endlessly evolving and growing into greater and greater realms of understanding with richer and richer experiences.

From where I "stand" it seems unlikely (and a complete waste of energy) for it to be forgotten, when there is so much more to be perceived.

Maybe I misunderstand you, as if projecting my fear of loss onto what you're noting.

Maybe what you describe is exactly what I see coming just from a different point of view.

Last Edited by MutantMessiah on 06/25/2013 12:25 AM

I'd say use every representation that you don't usually associate with and usually ignore. I found out there are plenty of those, in my perspective, when I made some meme's today.

It seems you are saying to use new representations that are closer to reality then. Instead of just trying to look at things in a better light....label them for what they actually are.

The thing is, there are different ways to look at the same thing. But I guess the shock value of labeling a loan shark as "financial rapist" has a wake-up value to it?

Last Edited by ERE3 on 06/25/2013 01:44 AM

I see, thank you for the clarification.

You also mentioned that the new representations have to be popularized. Because my perspective is all there is, I am assuming that this is needed so that all or most other values in my perspective (other aspects of me) interact with the new representation.

To make something popular on a large scale, it takes [the illusion of] time, and/or powerful media, so that a general "agreement" on the new representation is made, that is, most people start referring to them as such. I don't see how this can be energy or perspective-efficient.

Wouldn't it be more efficient to do this on an individual level, without worrying on how the representation can become popular? Wouldn't the end result technically be the same, because by changing my representations, and consequently my relationships around it, I change perspective?

Hi Chaol. After reading your other threads I have to ask, how long do you think it will take, like in what year, until Neuronics because commonplace on this Earth? I don't think I can wait any longer. I take opiates once a week (so i don't get addicted) and that one day is all i live for. It's the only day I can truly escape this mundane existance. But Neuronics sounds promising. Neuronics seems like it will be my only true salvation. So how long do we have to wait? Thanks.

Maybe I haven't had enough coffee yet this morning, but isn't that just what we've done in the US? Made war irrelevant to our perspective, by focusing instead on nipples? War may still happen, just not in our backyard.

To know "where one stands" in the doorway to the new physicality is wisdom.

If you have a better idea about the existing governmental and corporate structures (that operate in this physicality) due to the recent revelations about pervasive spying on ordinary citizens (among other illegal practices), how do you respond?

If you are like most people then it would appear that they are not bothered, as they may not believe they are affected by it. Or at least that is what they would like to believe.

Let's assume that someone is only "bothered" by it if they are also willing to do something about it now.

When you begin to become aware of the many way the old physicality seeks to manage/control your transition into the new physicality, where will you stand with this knowledge and understanding?

Practically-speaking, if you know that Microsoft, Google, Apple, and others are compromised and you continue to use their products then you have a better idea of where you will stand.

If corporations and governments are actively seeking to manage and control your physicality by gathering, categorising, analysing, and reporting on you and you continue along as if no new awareness is had then you are holding onto the old physicality in the hopes that it will "get better".

It does not get better. Of course, the situation in the West has been getting progressively worse since well before the events of September 11, 2001.

The foods you eat are compromised, the banks and finance companies are compromised, your internet service provider is compromised, most of the internet is compromised, media companies are compromised.. the list goes on.

The Western world is collapsing, and this is how is happens. Here is what was said last year at [link to www.godlikeproductions.com]

<<"2012" did not begin in January. It begins in September, as I said in 2009. But the real 'end of the world' is in 2013. This is just practice.

The East/West hemispheres on the brain are in identity crises. There's other stuff in the pipeline, but needless to say there is (will be) so much going on simultaneously you won't know where to look or what to believe.

And that is the point.

"If you are me, then who am I?"

The dream world is what you make of it.>>

If you knew that Adobe Corporation was spying on your keystrokes and webcam and microphone through Flash, does that make you change your behaviour?

If you knew that Intel, AMD, and major hard drive manufacturers have built-in spying mechanisms...

If you knew that Microsoft has been tracking you and making the contents of your hard drive, internet traffic, and everything under the sun available to governments (and possibly other companies), when operating systems like Ubuntu are freely available...

If you knew that all of your email was gathered, categorised, analysed, and reported on...

If you knew Apple and Google Android gathered, categorised, analysed, and reported on your data, whereabouts, and personal and private messages and files...

If you knew that all of your internet traffic was gathered, categorised, analysed, and reported on...

...and you did nothing, then you have a better idea of where you stand in the new physicality. If you allow this to happen to you, then you allow part of your perspective to maintain its grip.

If you "reject" these practices in theory yet continue to support them in practice then your choice is obvious.

But this is a hard thing to consider, isn't it? A natural response would be, "It's okay because I have nothing to hide". Well, then please give me your banking username and password. Surely you have nothing to hide? "It won't be used against me. I am nobody of interest." Your data is and will definitely be used against you. It is being collected for a reason. History has already shown us this, but what is happening now is far greater. Are you sure you're going to think the same way in 2014?

In order to make the above practices irrelevant it would require you to build new relationships:

1) with different platforms (like using Ubuntu instead of MS Windows), different email providers (more secure; possibly using your own domain - stay away from major ones, or free ones). While you would still be tracked it would be less easy to do so and link your information together.

2) by leading a new type of life. One that is free from tools that started out as great technologies but have become representations of your physical oppression. This is a great sacrifice to many of us, and that is the point. How tightly is your grip on the old physicality?

Keep in mind that there is no conspiracy. All of this is unfolding within your perspective. You don't know what, if anything, is happening outside of your perspective. Everything is you. There is no one working against you because it all starts and stops with your perspective.

You are becoming more aware of a more interactive type of physicality, what we call the dreamworld.

I hold that the dreamworld is a physical place, but a different type of physical existence. As light and sound have physical properties, so does the dreamworld. This is the life of the subconscious and what we have only a very narrow concept of in the waking world.

And so here you are, standing at the doorway to the new physicality. You are seeing the narrative of this change being expressed right before your senses.

Will you continue to hold onto the values of the old physicality, or begin to learn the new ones?

There is certainly nothing right or wrong with holding onto the old physicality. It is expected that resistance will be had. It is part of the process. You could say that no matter what you 'choose' a different part of you will make another choice, and all is experienced.

I think it's a bit ambiguous to 'let go of resistance'. But maybe specifically considering the ways in which you could do that would prove more effective.

Also, it may be easier to consider you-as-everything or everything-in-your-perspective-as-you (rather than focusing on nothing in particular; but I get your point).

It is indeed a battle of perspective. More accurately, a natural process whereby the different values in perspective are attracted/repelled by other values.

A "tug of war" I suppose you could say, but terms like these are only used for understanding. This tug occurs everywhere. It's just the values balancing out. It happens when you walk, wake up, eat and, in bigger ways, with things like this.

Your response to "apocalyptic scenarios" is interesting but choosing not to interact with them could actually unfold them in your perspective. A choice "not to" is more of a rejection. As we talked about before, when you push something away you are transferring your energy to it. That is to say, you are focusing on it by pushing it away.

It is much more effective to make something else more logical or relative to your experience.

Others may have success (in not experiencing "apocalyptic scenarios") by embracing them. (Yes, embracing them.) By doing this you are essentially expressing to yourself, "yes, that is part of me and I am okay with it." Likely, something else becomes more relative because the values would already be expressed. They would simply disappear. To reject them altogether is to grow those values.

Indeed it has.

But we can only assume that the concept of "the internet" needs to be seen through to the end in order for this transition to happen.

I think of it more as an introduction. The internet has a lifespan, and it could very well be a short, awesome life of less than 50 years instead of a longer one like the telegraph.

It is more important that it is developed and understood for yourself than done so publicly.

The sun rises first in your thoughts.

I like that. But corporations, governments, and NGOs know the power of a good and catchy name.

GMO would be more acceptable than OMG, for example.

"Guar gum" in your bread sounds better than seeing "galactomannan"

How many choose Splenda simply because the name and packaging is pleasant?

Turn their tactics against them.

Last Edited by Chaol on 06/25/2013 12:26 PM

Changing the value/meaning would be the same as changing the representation.

The value of the representation is in its value. (i.e., what a representation symbolizes is in its values, not inherent in the representation)

As an example of this, in some countries is a law that cigarette packaging must include imagery of diseased lungs. This is a different representation that the innocuous-looking packaging of cigarettes in other countries. (Many of which are designed to appear to young people.) The representation of the products, pre-purchase, has been changed by altering its value and associations.

Hi. I do not know what that is.

Is that by turning men and to women and vice versa?

That's just flipping the "M" upside down, man. I don't think that's real magick.

Frankenstein is a mis-understood monster. Some may even find him loveable lol

I don't think awareness of what is happening makes it any different as far as how it can or would be used.

If anything, it makes what is happening easier and also provides permission for it to continue. This is not actually anything new. You could say it is getting progressively worse, despite the continued awareness.

It actually sounds like the road to totalitarianism or the police state is being justified.


Being saturated in an illusory world based on corporate interest is not a bad thing? I suppose it's not a good thing, either :)


It is the nature of the modern capitalism to grow without end, depending on consumers and other entities consuming without end.


I don't think this applies to the entire nature of humanity. A good percentage of people have never tried Facebook and don't use computers.


Improving what is the question.

There's no direct correlation between the rarity of resources and their price. Plenty of rare-earth minerals are extracted for free, and diamonds are expensive on the consumer side when they "should" be sold for pennies.

In this world, we are beyond "open data collection". The nature of the system would need to change dramatically before a camera and microphone is installed in the White House for all the world to see.

Thanks! I'll take a book look.

I think the Occupy Wall Street movement could safely be categorized as a false flag movement. It wouldn't be the first. That is not to say that real people did not participate, only to consider that it may have well been started and managed by corporate interests.



Yes. And to think that we don't realize what has been happening while we think we are becoming more aware or more advanced is ironic.

It won't become commonplace, and it's not meant to. So no year.

Neuronics, Ecsys, Ec, etc., are meant to influence certain other values.

How long before those other things (which see) become more popular? If I were to guess based on what I have seen it would be 2015.

But the world is a very different place in 2015.

We'll have to see how interesting it is.

Hi.

The illusion is carried with you.

You don't notice the transition now, do you? That would mean that your perspective is changing while at the same time you are taking some of those values into your newer realities.

Perhaps not all, but life changes accordingly.

Even when we sleep we carry some of what we know. And what is happening now is happening in a logical way. There is no complete destruction of your perspective. You would always be surrounded by what you know well (what is most relative). But that may not be the same as when you were born, nor should it be.

Your "life line" is staring you in the face. It's called your present. The illusion is still here, and will always be.

It's just interpreted differently at each moment. That is what creates the sense for the new moment.

Sometimes there are drastic re-interpretations. But, again, this happens in a logical way. Just more rapidly sometimes I guess.

The Nature of Capitalism

The Western world has, unfortunately, based its modern existence on capitalistic principals since the industrial age mechanised the flow and use of money. (One could argue that it began with colonialism but it has accelerated substantially in the past couple of hundred years.)

I am not implying that there is anything wrong with someone starting a business or making a buck, or drawing a mortgage on their home, or investing in something. I have also used capitalism for my own benefit, and have been very good at it.

Money is not inherently bad. It is a representation of value and a good one at that.

The challenge of capitalism is when capital becomes mechanized and leveraged. When $1 becomes leveraged so that it represents an infinite amount of money through layers upon layers of fractional reserve or inter-bank leveraging, it has detrimental effects on the people that use it to represent value.

It is the nature of capitalism to make value abstract rather than defined, and that is the problem. It essentially becomes illogical.

If you deposit $1 in your bank account you are handing over ownership of it to your bank who promises repayment. The promise is yours, the money is not. Banks normally repay, and there is no issue. But what a bank does with that money is where the problem begins. Depending on the bank's regulations it can then lend out up to 150x your deposited funds (normally 10-50x). So now it has lent out $150 to various other entities, some of whom deposit with or send the newly-created funds to other banks. The other banks can then lend out up to 150x, and so on. So your $1 could, in theory, become millions through this system. Thee are hundreds, perhaps thousands of trillions of dollars in derivatives (notional value). Who knows what else is out there when one of the largest banks in the world consistently 'misplaces' trillions of dollars.

And when you put all of the funds together, the interest can never be paid back in full (!)

Capitalism is growth for the sake of growth. This is not just about companies but also about national, state/provincial, and municipal governments, non-profits, NGOs, and people.

People operate this system and end up adopting the very way of thinking they promote and support.

Capitalism is not a bad thing. But untamed capitalism is not beneficial to thinking, because it implies that you are not your perspective.

When you must grow for the sake of growth then what is implied is that everything you need is not here and now.

What you need is "over there". The resources are "untapped". The future needs to have "more profits". Interest needs to be charged, things need to be financed, salaries need to be paid. Ad infinitum.

In the new physicality, this kind of capitalism is irrelevant. What you need is already "here and now".

We can have a system of capitalism in the dreamworld whereby people can lend and borrow money without interest, inflation and deflation do not exist, and all basic needs are an assumed right like air and water.

Are there systems in the dreamworld? Money? Roads? Yes, of course. These are only representations that are used to relate, like anything else.

We can try to take our existing capital-based systems with us, but they would certainly be incompatible with the nature of the dreamworld.

And so they crumble.

OK, so there is a difference in aligning with the parts of our perspective we value (Seth puts it this way....to align with those things we desire).....and interacting differently with the parts of our perspective that cling to the old ways?

So for example, quitting the internet altogether, is not as effective as using a different operating system? When I googled Linux and studied it, I could see that it would not be easy for me. I had already been thinking of quitting the internet but if it's more effective to learn a new os, then that's what I'll do.

And also, as far as re-naming those things in my perspective that I am leaving, this will also aid the transition? (Things such as GMO foods, loan sharks, credit cards, government spying, etc:)

So I guess there are 2 actions to take? I need to decide which representations are most relative and interact differently with them and the rest I re-define?

Last Edited by ERE3 on 06/26/2013 11:06 AM

Gladly! Thank you for the wake-up!

Hi Chaol,

I'm the AC from Malaysia that recently posted in your other thought provoking thread. I wasn't actually doubting your intentions on what you had shared in the thread. I was just folllowing your instructions to bring you back into my perspective to say the least ;). It is after all light entertainment as you have always reiterate. I'm actually still on page 180.

I have never met anyone online with such patience as yourself. It is truly and honor when you replied my post pertaining to me getting hijacked by you. You seemed truly not from this world from my observation. I might not be as intellectually up to par with the majority of posters in GLP by saying that as English isn't my first language but something brougt me to this forum. Call it coincidence or a logical narrative for my ever inquisitve mind but I was actually looking for a specific poster from another conspiracy website who got banned (I presume) for his/her controversial thread. This OP goes by the nickname of 'Innitiate'.

Although at the time it may seem to me 'Innitiate' was in possesion of some serious arcane knowledge, something about his tone wasn't right. Let's just say he had some issue with his patience. Especially when someone was doubting his claims. You my friend, if I may call you so seems the opposite. My mind's defense mechanism has been breached. It has reasoned torturesly to find flaws (within my shallow perspective) and malevolent signs to no avail apart from the only one thing which is the question of the existence of God. This belief is strongly imbedded in me. It's like it has been carved into my being (hope this makes sense) from a very young age. When the thought of looking for the opposite (relationship) of God came into my perception..I felt really sad. It's because I can't find the answer. I truly hope you are wrong about this one.

And from this thread, you have cemented my believe that your intentions are benevolent.

Forgive me for my shitty English, I am just a peasant with little education from Malaysia.

MFL

I'm actually the AC from Malaysia. Just forgot to log-in when I posted earlier. You can reply to me Chaol. That's if I deserve any.

Chaol, could you please clarify the parts I bolded?

Why (and when) is embracing ok, if we are to do something about the practices you mention?

Can't one then embrace those too and make them irrelevant?
Aren't we pushing against them under the disguise to "replace" them? You said that to reject them is to grow those values.

In what way one should embrace apocalyptic scenarios, but not other things? Can't one "be okay with it", thus creating no resistance? Where is the difference?

I do understand the part about creating new relationships, but I wonder where one draws the line with the embracing, and how that is done in a way that one is not "supporting".

For example, if I now start doing research about Ubuntu, trying to learn it fast (and probably hating how it works), fretting about not being spied upon, and leaving an easy interface like OS X, am I not creating more resistance in the process? Then, this resistance will be carried over to the new relationship, wondering why Ubuntu should not be also compromised, because at the core I started seeing my beloved computer as an enemy...

Wouldn't it be easier to change the value of the representation (computer) to one that serves me well? It has until now, and thanks to it, I've learned a lot. It has been a good friend.

Just trying to understand better.

Here's Bashar talking about the same thing but not quite as precise as Neo...

I do notice the transition. It's bubbling up from the fringe of perspective and projecting itself among all the systems within it. More and more (tiny) alterations to the way I re-member "things" being. It's most noticeable in the way people seem to interact with "me" and each other. The more I notice, the more I look to backpedal(forget) and it seems to slow down(because I've forgotten what to look for). It's that I forget sometimes that I've found what I am looking for and start looking again only to re-member I had already found "it". It's all-ways been this way, we forget (purposefully).

When we talk about "nothing" existing beyond perspective, we don't mean "nothing" as in a closed box we're told is "empty" contains "no-things". We mean "pure chaos" like a closed empty box could contain "nothing", "everything" or "anything" in between. It's when we open the box the logic of perspective is applied to the box and the once kinda-limitless possibility of the future falls through the lens of the present into the structured possibility of the past.

These things playing out on the world stage are like the "box", we've not opened it yet. We can alter perspective by adjusting the logic that supports it to ensure that when the "box" is opened, it is to our benefit. Sure, we experience what is most relative and there are processes already represented in perspective that are defining the logical narrative. Since everything is all-ways represented in perspective in all ways, we need only find the logic to perceive the experience we prefer. Why not "find" it in the processes "all-ready" represented? It's all just a "game" with "real" make-believe friends.

We are like a child, coming across a wrapped present on the playground. We forget the game we were just playing with our friends and wonder what's in the box.

Is this someone else's?

Is this for me?

What's in it?

Maybe I shouldn't shake it, it might be fragile.

Maybe it's naughty pictures.

Maybe it's dangerous. Etc...

We take it to our friends, some say open it, some say presents are evil ("Jehovah's Witness" kids, lol), some say it's their's, etc...

Still the box is wrapped, closed and no one knows what's in it.

We can study and ask around the neighborhood and see if we can find the history of it...

We can leave it there, let someone else deal with it.

Or we can unwrap, open it and the logic of perspective will take care of the rest. Regardless of what we find, we've stopped playing the game with our friends to look for it.

When we re-member the dreamworld into perspective, are we recalling and returning to the game with our friends or are we looking to find out what's in the box? "Some" may "say" they're the same thing and "others" may "see" why they're "different".

Last Edited by MutantMessiah on 06/25/2013 09:52 PM