Simple straight forward question. Would a loving supreme being desire that you worship and pray to him/her?

Consider this. All slave masters demand worship. They all want to be revered. It is a power thing, therefore it is evil.

Any advanced being that asks to be worshiped is either a false god or it only exists in your mind. Which is it?

God doesn't demand worship, but merely instructs us that when we worship Him it is beneficial to us. You're right. He doesn't need our worship.

But we need to see that we are dependent on Source.

Would a loving, caring mother and father desire appreciation and respect from their children?

That's on a human thinking scale.

Now expand that thought to the divine (unknown).


It's not a far leap to see how it fits.

I agree.

Would a loving, caring mother and father desire appreciation and respect from their children?

That's on a human thinking scale.

Now expand that thought to the divine (unknown).


It's not a far leap to see how it fits.

OP, I see the problem here as a matter of perspective. In my opinion, you are unable to view this objectively.

Here is an analogy (parable), to attempt to elevate your understanding.

You discipline and teach your dogs not to leave the yard, for in the highway is certain death.

OH NO you say.......GOD made the highway, invalid.......

OK, let us alter the analogy.

You have, on your property a plastics extrusion facility, which, if you know anything about plastics extrusion, has pools of acid that will eat the meat of your dogs and dissolve the bones right quickly. (You made this place.)

You teach your dogs not to leave the yard because even the fumes of your facility is certain death. Your dogs have no comprehension of what plastics extrusion even is, they are simply unable to comprehend this concept.

So, do you demand the obediance of your dogs because you hate them or love them?


See OP, there are many things in the univers, some for puposes you cannot comprehend yet could indeed become entangled or destroyed in.


Looking at reality subjectively is not the path to understanding, you create barriers in your own mind. Try to understand the universe does not revolve around your ego.

false! hell is not accidental, God intends to TROW U 2 HELL if you don't accept Jesus by FORCE

Re: Simple straight forward question. Would a loving supreme being desire that you worship and pray to him/her?
Maybe this parable that I wrote a while back will help some understand this control. Guess who the sheepdog is...

=====================================

There once was an old owl that lived in the trees at the edge of a large green pasture. After a noontime meal, he would often sit in a tree overlooking a beautiful green pasture with a flock of sheep below. He was sleepily resting when a very large, black sheepdog came to lie in the shade of the tree to avoid the hot afternoon sun.

Noticing the owl sitting in the tree above, the dog said, "Look at those stupid sheep. They have no idea how much we do for them. If it wasn't for us, they would all be eaten by the wolves in no time. They should worship us, not our master! He is never around. We control this pasture."

The old owl said, "Does it never bother you controlling and ruling them the way you do?" "Bother me? Ha, ha!", said the dog, "Fool! Without us the many predators would eat them in no time at all! We are saving them! They need us. They have no idea how much work it is controlling them! Look, they don't even realize that we control them! Ha, ha. In fact, it makes them feel more secure knowing that we are here to protect them."

"Every once in a while, some young ram full of life will try and show his prowess, but we quickly put him in his place. He doesn't try that again I can tell you.", said the sheep dog with a slight grin. "They soon learn that they are not in control here, we are.", he said sternly.

The owl said to the sheep dog, "but don't you realize that you are controlled by humans the same as the sheep?" "Rubbish!, said the sheep dog, "We control this pasture! We tell the sheep where to go and when to do it, he said proudly." The old owl listened quietly and then asked after a short silence, "But you don't get to eat the tasty mutton, the humans do, is that not so? So who is really in control?"

This caused the sheep dog to fly into a rage. Showing his teeth he said to the owl, "If you were not up in that tree, I would eat you right now to show you who rules this pasture! Not humans!" The old owl chuckled at this bravado and said to the dog, "I don't fear your threats, I am not part of your silly game. That is why I spend my time alone, quietly watching this struggle from the trees. It does not concern me."

"Then why are you here?" said the dog, still angry from this affront. "To watch and to learn, just like you", said the owl. "Watching is all well and good, but power and control are what really matters! I am in control of my destiny, unlike these stupid sheep!", said the dog. The dog was still irritated at the turn in the conversation finally said, "I have to get back to work. The master will be coming soon to select a couple of lambs for his dinner. You can get back to your dreaming. I have work to do!"

The dog then returned to the field, angrily snapping at the heels of a couple of lambs straying too far from the flock. The old owl then returned to his watching and to his afternoon dreaming.

Last Edited by 1123581321 on 04/04/2012 03:37 PM

See OP, there are many things in the univers, some for puposes you cannot comprehend yet could indeed become entangled or destroyed in.

Please bear in mind that your dogs cannot comprehend the situation, all they know is disobediance brings wrath. Obedience brings reward.

I have no desire to play mental chess. Cleverness is not wisdom.

I will only say that we are not stupid lost animals that need to be protected from the world. This attitude has led us to the slavery we find ourselves trapped within.

I don't think you are after understanding, but mind games.

Peace

I have no desire to play mental chess. Cleverness is not wisdom.

I will only say that we are not stupid lost animals that need to be protected from the world. This attitude has led us to the slavery we find ourselves trapped within.

I don't think you are after understanding, but mind games.

Peace

well OP I simply can't resist, I must clarify my argument, since you are too confident in your deception to respond, well, then this is for other readers


So, you don't like my animal story but your animal story is valid, oh thats right we are not dumb animals. Got it.

We do not need to be protected from the world? Which world are you living in?

here is the crux;

You claim that by proposing a statement that to you is a paradox, you magically know everything about the universe, even outside the universe, (you would have to to know if there is a supreme diety or not) what a ridiculous concept that by playing a word game you become omniscient!

You accuse me of mental chess? The entire premise of this thread is mental chess!


I claim that there is possibility you have not considered, I give a hypothetical example which you do not address.


Face it OP, your mind is closed.

Do yourself a favor and think about it.

That question is not an attack. I honestly can't see how an advanced deity would ask that of anyone. Worship is just another form of slavery. Can't Christians see that?

I think if you stopped and considered this question it would trouble you. That is why many never question worship.

It doesn't matter what I think. Ask yourself if the concept of worship of another is right.

You decide.

I really shouldn't reply to you, but I see that you have a good heart, so I will.

First, I don't expect anyone to believe a word that I have said in this thread. I have expressed what I believe and everyone is free to believe as they wish. I would only ask that people take some time alone and think about these ideas. If it feels wrong, just move on. If however, these ideas feel right in your heart, pursue them further on your own. Your choice.

To your post. The only way any of us will ever know what is true concerning these spiritual ideas is by going within and listening to what your heart tells you is right. Don't believe what I say or a priest, a master, a guru, a teacher or any other so call "aware" person. You must follow your own path. That is all that I have been saying here.

The only way we will ever really be free is by believing that we are wise, advanced and spiritually aware enough to make our own choices. No one can make them for us.

My friend, I hope that we can treat each others views with respect and not expect others to believe what we believe. I am not challenging your views, only stating my own. Then the choice is up to you.

Peace

That question is not an attack. I honestly can't see how an advanced deity would ask that of anyone. Worship is just another form of slavery. Can't Christians see that?

I think if you stopped and considered this question it would trouble you. That is why many never question worship.

It doesn't matter what I think. Ask yourself if the concept of worship of another is right.

You decide.

We are a faithful family and pray every day, even over meals (because I feel giving thanks is important). Sometimes we even ad hoc it and go around the table saying specific things we are thankful for, because truly, a 'routine' prayer loses its effectiveness when it becomes justa movement of the mouth before one gets to eat.

However, we do not go to church because I no longer believe in organized religion (born, raised, baptized, confirmed as a catholic earlier in life). That being said, I don't mind if my children choose to participate; so when my daughter asked to go to wednesday night bible/youth group with her friend, I said sure.

So she had been going for a few weeks when we were driving along the street one evening and passed a sign for a different church that said 'Worship Service' with some different dates/times posted.

She said "Why do they call it worship?"

I said "Interesting question, what do you think?"

She said "I don't know, but I don't like that word. It makes me think of being a slave."

I nodded and said "That's kind of how I have always felt."

Kids say the darnedest things. She was about 11 years old at the time.