British birds evolve bigger beaks to use garden feeders

natural selection is a lie. There's no random. It's down to what you do.

We see evolution in action, yet some people refuse to believe it.

I've had debates with fundamentalist Christians over this. When I bring up examples like your story, they've conceded that individual species can "evolve" different parts or capabilities, but draw the line when it comes to those same species becoming so different over the course of x years that one becomes an entirely different species from the first. Logically, it holds no water, but they have this stigma attached to the word "species" and all logic flies out the window "'cause mah Bah-ble tells me so."

It's like they think God says, "Okay, when it comes to the size of a beak or the color of a moth, I'll let nature take over. But when it comes to specific species---all of which humans categorize according to their own set of rules---that's where I'm going to step in and say ABRACADABRA!"

The lack of intellectual honesty here boggles the mind.

And I should note I'm not an atheist saying this. They have their own brand of intellectual dishonesty which is even more infuriating to me.

Nobody ever said it was random. Where in the world did you come up with that?

I'm not a fundamentalist and don't subscribe to the bible or Genesis as being literal. That said, although there are those who are intellectually dishonest, I don't think what you say here qualifies.

Adaptation within species does not magically correspond to evolution into different species altogether and it is a huge problem for darwinists, who are just as locked into ideology as any creationist. Anything that smacks of intelligence in the mix is automatically dismissed because it would be the camel's nose under the tent.

Think that dna can change in real time, and it does have to do on focus.

evolution was never meant to explain the origin of life, only its modification.

we see it in dog breeding quite clearly.

Random mutations naturally selected.

That's what they are fed with. Preachers have to shun and shame truths because a thinking person will no longer be a religious sheep. "Its random", "there is no proof", "no fossil records", "fossils are all lies", "how come there are still monkeys around" and so on.

Adaption within species is well known and established. Whenever the birds evolve hands so they can open the bird feeders THEN we can have a conversation about evolution.

It's true that it wasn't meant to explain the origin, but it doesn't really explain the modification either, as you example clearly illustrates, since dog breeding is by design. And even there, the idea that you are going to get anything but dogs from the efforts is a hard sell unless you need to believe it for ideological reasons.

Why would they need hands for that? Can't you imagine any other simpler way to open it? A strong beak to break it for example...

There is a lot of ideological bullshit on both sides of the fence, which makes it difficult to have a discussion about it. Still, the notion of random mutations naturally selected was put forth over and over again. Maybe the ideologues took it and ran, but the idea that nobody ever said anything about random is disingenuous because it was part of the foundation.

My guess is that the point is that adaptation within species alone doesn't explain novel features very well.

Think simplicity. Adaptation is a way to solve a problem or make a creature better at a task. A longer beak, enough to be able to steal some food from a feeder. A stronger beak, enough to break it and get all food. Evolution is not about big steps, its always very small steps over and over, in a period of time. Sometimes a longer period, sometimes shorter, but certainly not in only 1 or 2 generations. Also, evolution is not like a ladder, there is no top or bottom, there is no "more evolved" and "less evolved", there is only different evolution to adapt to different purposes, and again, along many generations.

Was reading about this the other day when my son came home from school with books to study this stuff and nature on a project they're doing...

Pretty fascinating stuff..

That's not evolution. That's adaptation.

A bird adapting to grow a longer beak is in a completely different ballpark from humans evolving from monkeys that evolved from slime that evolved from thin air -- that is horse s*** with no proof.

i love birds

about that time of year to start buying birdseed and feed them

I understand the explanation; I just don't buy it. Besides, the part about always being very, very small steps died a long time ago and punctuated equilibrium was stuck in there to "explain" the stuff that didn't fit the gradualism model.

Why you don't "buy it"? There are literally thousands of fossils with most of the evolutionary steps for many species.

That is a complete lie. Typical of you people.

Its not a lie. Evolution is real and its proven over and over again.

interesting. lamarckianism versus darwinism.

check out larmarck. he had some good points.

i think everything is a blend of that. when discussing that sort of thing.

One of the reasons I don't buy it is that the notion you put forth about gradualism doesn't fly. That's why punctuated equilibrium was created to explain away the problem.

The fossil record does not do what you say it does. This has been pointed out over and over, but the claim keeps getting repeated anyway and the supposed trainsitions are often based on very flimsy evidence that wouldn't stand if it weren't trying to hold together a theory under fire.

Lamarck was ridiculed mercilessly for decades, then it was oops, so sorry, looks like he was not wrong after all.

That's not evolution, that's adaptation - they are still the same species..try reading a book sometime.

Another reason I don't buy it is because I don't find random mutations to be a sufficient or even plausible explanation for producing the changes that will then be naturally selected. There's no way I can see how random mutations led to the working of the cell or dna.

Evolution is just more pc ignorance.
Example: If we evolved from apes there would be hundreds of thousands skeletal examples of proof. Not one, made of plastic.

Trey Smith can educate you on this. If you like to learn anyway. Watch the Nephilim, Noah It Begins, then the video there are no forests on earth which is not a Trey Smith vid but has been widely spread on this site.

Then, use what God gave you to navigate to the Truth.

I should note I'm not a Christian saying this. I have a profound belief in God, and do not subscribe to any religion, also never baptized.

I read once a while back how our lifestyles actually impacts our next young.

If we are runners and burn a LOT of calories, and we have a child who is not that active, they get fat.

The opposite is also true.



It isn't perfect but the odds are way above random chance.


This may mean our difficulties in life are addressed in the next generation.

Its not exactly random. This is one of the main misconceptions about evolution. Even more the way it is presented. It looks like "it just happened" when this is not the case.