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| 04:10 AM | ||
| Users Online Now: 1,047 (Who's On?) | Visitors Today: 239,627 | |
| Pageviews Today: 368,278 | Threads Today: 142 | Posts Today: 2,001 |
| 04:10 AM | ||
one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. | |
| , User ID: 888686  Australia02/11/2010 07:40 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
mathetes
 User ID: 793782  United States02/11/2010 07:49 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I'm afraid you are advocating legalism For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth" (Rom. 10: 4) Christ sustained a unique position to the Law of Moses. He promoted it and flawlessly kept its precepts. Of greater importance: Christ was the end of the law in that he fulfilled it. Jesus became the ultimate and perpetual sacrifice for the sins of the world (Heb. 7-9). Jesus has all authority in heaven and earth and we are to hear him (Matt. 28: 18; 17: 5). Jesus is to be heard over Moses and Elias (law and prophets, Matt. 17: 4, 5) For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. |
| mopar28m
User ID: 888697 United States02/11/2010 07:52 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Mathetes, I respectfully disagree with you. Legalism is following manmade traditons. (Xmas, Easter, etc.) Obedience is following Torah. Jesus said heaven & earth would disappear before the Torah would. (Matt. 5:17-20, Luke 16:17 & Rom. 3:31) vaccinefreehealth blogspot com The risk far outweighs any benefit as the risk will vary from child to child. facebook.com/graphixyourway |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 888721 United States02/11/2010 08:04 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Therefore, you do have to keep all of the Law, but technically you don't because some of it was already fulfilled. Also, if one is to follow the Law they must fully comprehend its meaning and its purpose, otherwise, they will have a hard time understanding the seeming conflict between Acts and the Dietary Law. Lastly, one must remember that the Old Law clearly has an order of priority to it. In other words, the Old Law is clearly meant to bring one closer to righteousness, not to make one perfect. This is evident from the conflicts that took place in the Gospels between Christ and those who would find it ungodly to heal on the Sabbath. For example, you are not to travel on the Sabbath, but what if you are delivering blankets to the homeless on a cold winter night? You aren't supposed to lie, but what if the Nazis are knocking on your door asking you if you have any Jews hidden in your home? Is it a greater crime against God to not travel on the Sabbath and not lie to the Nazis than it is to travel or lie under such circumstances? The clear purpose of the Law is to teach righteousness. The main point of the Law is summed up in the Great Commandment and the New Commandment given by Yashuah HaMashiach. You are to love God with all your heart and to love your neighbor as yourself. The rest of the Law is a breakdown of things to show you how to get there. |
| mathetes
User ID: 793782 United States02/11/2010 08:08 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Mathetes, I respectfully disagree with you. Quoting: mopar28mLegalism is following manmade traditons. (Xmas, Easter, etc.) Obedience is following Torah. Jesus said heaven & earth would disappear before the Torah would. (Matt. 5:17-20, Luke 16:17 & Rom. 3:31) Hey my friend! I use the word legalism to describe the early Jewish believers who held to the Law only..btw they were all Pharisees. (I pray I don't offend you, Sometimes I come across as gruff) A question for you...should we still follow all the Laws of Moses as the adherents of Legalism in the 1st century contended? If so we are in trouble as there is no Temple to sacrifice for sins today For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ” (John 1:17) The law was fulfilled in/with Christ...this is the way I see the Gospel..does this give us license to break the Law? Of course not,the Law should be written in our hearts. Amen? For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 888785 Australia02/11/2010 08:27 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Some of the Old Testament Law was fulfilled (such as the ritual law of sacrifice) through Yashuah HaMashiach. The ritual sacrifice of animals is no longer required because of the sacrifice of YHWH's Only Begotten Son. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 888721Therefore, you do have to keep all of the Law, but technically you don't because some of it was already fulfilled. But that's not what Jesus said. He said not even one small part will pass from the law until all of the law and the prophets is fulfilled. You're saying some of the law has gone, but other parts remain. That's not what Jesus said. |
| mopar28m
User ID: 888697 United States02/11/2010 11:15 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Mathetes, I respectfully disagree with you. Quoting: mathetesLegalism is following manmade traditons. (Xmas, Easter, etc.) Obedience is following Torah. Jesus said heaven & earth would disappear before the Torah would. (Matt. 5:17-20, Luke 16:17 & Rom. 3:31) Hey my friend! I use the word legalism to describe the early Jewish believers who held to the Law only..btw they were all Pharisees. (I pray I don't offend you, Sometimes I come across as gruff) A question for you...should we still follow all the Laws of Moses as the adherents of Legalism in the 1st century contended? If so we are in trouble as there is no Temple to sacrifice for sins today For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ” (John 1:17) The law was fulfilled in/with Christ...this is the way I see the Gospel..does this give us license to break the Law? Of course not,the Law should be written in our hearts. Amen? No, you didn't offend me. I have a very deep respect for you. :) We have freedom within the law. Grace doesn't give us permission to sin. 1 John 3:4 - Sin is the transgression of the law. Only one law, the Torah. We follow the Torah to the best of our ability. Some of the laws are just for women, some just for men, some just children, some just for the levites. True, we can't do sacrifices as we don't have a temple or the levitical priesthood BUT we can do the others. (sabbath, annual sabbaths, dietary laws, new moons, etc.) When we do the Passover meal, we have the lamb as it is outlined in Exodus & Leviticus. Someday animal sacrifices will resume, after the temple is rebuilt & Yeshua returns. (Eze. 43) vaccinefreehealth blogspot com The risk far outweighs any benefit as the risk will vary from child to child. facebook.com/graphixyourway |
| Babe in a Bunker
User ID: 847423 United States02/11/2010 11:17 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I'm sorry, I know there is a serious discussion taking place here but "tittle"? Well it seems so real I can see it And it seems so real I can feel it And it seems so real I can taste it And it seems so real I can hear it So why can't I touch it? So why can't I touch it? Twatter: [link to twitter.com] |
| seeker12 User ID: 813733 United States02/11/2010 11:32 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | We, as Christians, do not have to do the sacrifice of animals for Christ became the true and Holy sacrifice. He, according to scripture, is the only one without blemish. Just like the Jews when sacrificing had to provide a lamb without spot or wrinkle...Jesus fulfilled this requirement. In Him is the Law fulfilled. We follow after Him and we will fulfill the Laws of God. Two Laws we have to follow: 1. Love the Lord your God with all your heart. 2. Love your neighbor as yourself. In other words, love each other and put away hate towards your fellow man. When someone is in need...help them. When someone hurts...assist in their hurt. When someone is hungry...feed them. When someone is hungry or thirsty...feed and/or give them drink. I've come to understand all laws of God are wrapped up in these two actions. If we love God and our fellow man...we will please God and man. Here we will find our own fulfillment in life. (Sad to say but most, if not all, people with emotional problems are to concerned about self than others. There in lays their problem.) No greater love has no man (person) than to lay down ones life for another. Jesus did this for us all. He loves His creation enough to die for it. Sad the masses of humanity can't understand or accept this as truth. chuck |
| mopar28m
User ID: 888697 United States02/11/2010 11:44 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I'm sorry, I know there is a serious discussion taking place here but "tittle"? Quoting: Babe in a BunkerTittle is part of the hebrew markers in their alphabet. vaccinefreehealth blogspot com The risk far outweighs any benefit as the risk will vary from child to child. facebook.com/graphixyourway |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 887590 United States02/12/2010 12:53 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I think what we need to understand is the words "until ALL BE FULFILLED." Yahaushua fulfilled the sin sacrifice, so we no longer need to provide a 1st year lamb without spot or blemish for the sacrifice of our sins. Yahushua provided that for us. He was THE LAMB OF YAHUAH. But I believe He did not take away our responsiblities of following the 10 commandments, observing the Holy Days, and asking for forgiveness of sins from Yahuah. The balance of the law has yet to be fulfilled and will not be until all the events prophesied in the Book of Revelation come to pass. Then, we will not need the laws to protect us from sin and keep us in a state of righteousness. One of the most important things that I believe most followers of the Messiah fail to do today is observance of the Sabbath on the 7th day, (which we call Saturday). It actually begins at sun down on Friday and finishes at sundown on Saturday. Due to politics with the Emperor Constantine who was a pagan, the Sabbath was changed from Saturday to "SUN"-day to allow all the pagans to join with the roman catholic church in worship. This has been admitted by the rcc, and subsequently loyal followers of the Messiah have been unknowingly breaking the 4th commandment for centuries. I can personally attest to a sweet and set-apart experience by fellowshipping with Yahuah on the 7th day as He commanded. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 888966  Canada02/12/2010 01:21 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Some of the Old Testament Law was fulfilled (such as the ritual law of sacrifice) through Yashuah HaMashiach. The ritual sacrifice of animals is no longer required because of the sacrifice of YHWH's Only Begotten Son. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 888785Therefore, you do have to keep all of the Law, but technically you don't because some of it was already fulfilled. But that's not what Jesus said. He said not even one small part will pass from the law until all of the law and the prophets is fulfilled. You're saying some of the law has gone, but other parts remain. That's not what Jesus said. NO, I am not saying ANY of the Law has gone ,but that some has already been fulfilled. There is a HUGE difference between taking away the Law and fulfilling it. Taking the Law away would be like saying a murder need not face his punishment, but fulfillment would be like saying he already fulfilled the punishment for such. Yashuah HaMashiach fulfilled the necessity of blood sacrifice, therefore it is necessary no more but by Him. The Law was fulfilled through His sacrifice and forgiveness, for ALL condemnation brought about by the Law was forgiven through the sacrifice of Atonement. If a clean animal can bring Atonement for a year's sin for a whole Nation (as per the Old Law) how much more the Only Son of God for any one man? This is the foundation of Christrian doctrine. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 1194370 United States03/03/2012 01:00 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 11602398 United States03/03/2012 01:02 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 5536007 United States03/03/2012 01:31 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Some of the Old Testament Law was fulfilled (such as the ritual law of sacrifice) through Yashuah HaMashiach. The ritual sacrifice of animals is no longer required because of the sacrifice of YHWH's Only Begotten Son. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 888721 Therefore, you do have to keep all of the Law, but technically you don't because some of it was already fulfilled. Also, if one is to follow the Law they must fully comprehend its meaning and its purpose, otherwise, they will have a hard time understanding the seeming conflict between Acts and the Dietary Law. Lastly, one must remember that the Old Law clearly has an order of priority to it. In other words, the Old Law is clearly meant to bring one closer to righteousness, not to make one perfect. This is evident from the conflicts that took place in the Gospels between Christ and those who would find it ungodly to heal on the Sabbath. For example, you are not to travel on the Sabbath, but what if you are delivering blankets to the homeless on a cold winter night? You aren't supposed to lie, but what if the Nazis are knocking on your door asking you if you have any jewish people hidden in your home? Is it a greater crime against God to not travel on the Sabbath and not lie to the Nazis than it is to travel or lie under such circumstances? The clear purpose of the Law is to teach righteousness. The main point of the Law is summed up in the Great Commandment and the New Commandment given by Yashuah HaMashiach. You are to love God with all your heart and to love your neighbor as yourself. The rest of the Law is a breakdown of things to show you how to get there. The Mosaic law was to lead one to righteousness. How ever Jesus fulfilled that for us to become our righteousness. Gal 3:3 Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now going to reach perfection through what is external? Gal 3:10 All who are depending upon their own obedience to the Law are under a curse, for it is written, "CURSED IS EVERY ONE WHO DOES NOT REMAIN FAITHFUL TO ALL THE PRECEPTS OF THE LAW, AND PRACTISE THEM." There are no exception to this law, its do it all or nothing. Gal 3:11 It is evident, too, that no one can find acceptance with God simply by obeying the Law, because "THE RIGHTEOUS SHALL LIVE BY FAITH," Gal 3:12 and the Law has nothing to do with faith. It teaches that "HE WHO DOES THESE THINGS SHALL LIVE BY DOING THEM." So by trying to uphold the Law, you are putting your righteousness of Works as greater than The righteousness of Faith in Jesus Christ. Gal 5:4 Christ has become nothing to any of you who are seeking acceptance with God through the Law: you have fallen away from grace. Since you are refusing the righteousness Jesus supplies to us. So you nullify his sacrifice for Sin. You are lost, confused and to be pitied. |
