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401k/IRA Screw Job Coming? Government is Going to Take Your Money!!!!!!

 
Foxx.
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01/08/2010 05:04 PM
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401k/IRA Screw Job Coming? Government is Going to Take Your Money!!!!!!
401k/IRA Screw Job Coming?

Now this is a guaranteed rape job.

In a short conversation this noontime that CNBC apparently has omitted from their archives (Why's that folks?) Rick Santelli was talking about a potential to effectively force money into the Treasury market.

Where would they get this?

From your 401k and IRA accounts!

From Businessweek:

The U.S. Treasury and Labor Departments will ask for public comment as soon as next week on ways to promote the conversion of 401(k) savings and Individual Retirement Accounts into annuities or other steady payment streams, according to Assistant Labor Secretary Phyllis C. Borzi and Deputy Assistant Treasury Secretary Mark Iwry, who are spearheading the effort.

Let me tell you what this is - it is an attempt to prevent the collapse of the Treasury market!

Forcing people into Treasuries as an "annuity" is exactly what Social Security allegedly is. Except that Treasury stole the money that was collected in FICA taxes and spent it!

Guess what? They'll do that here too - you're going to "invest" in Treasuries which of course are effectively a CALL option on the future taxing ability of the government.

The problem is that with an aging population and the immigrant problem (illegal immigrants that is), along with offshoring, the aggregate wage base will drop and thus this is the most dangerous investment of all!

What's even worse is that the government has intentionally suppressed Treasury yields during this crisis (and will keep doing so by various means, including manipulating the CPI - the "inflation index" - as they have for the last 30 years) so as to guarantee that you lose over time compared to actual purchasing power.

THIS HAS BEEN THE CASE SINCE THE 1980s AND IT WILL NOT CHANGE!

I have been talking about this for quite some time and recall writing a Ticker on it a year or more ago, although I can't find the entry immediately.

Let me be clear:

I have no quarrel with the government mandating that you have a choice in your IRA or 401k account to buy short-duration Treasuries - much like the "G" fund that government and civil-service workers have.

But - "choices" have a funny way of turning into mandates, and this looks to me like a raw admission that Treasury knows it will not be able to sell its debt in the open market - so they will effectively tax you by forcing your "retirement" money to buy them!

This may be the only way for Treasury to hold down interest rates to something reasonable in the intermediate term, but doing so will instantaneously remove a major source of funding for the stock market - that is, the monthly and quarterly inflows from retirement accounts.

You can bet this won't be good for you, the ordinary American.

You can also bet that once such an "option" is made available there is a very high probability of the government doing things that either promote or simply don't stand in the way of another stock market crash as a means of "herding" your money into Treasuries - so they can blow it - all under the guise of being allegedly "safe".

Of course this begs the question - what if the government can't pay down the road when you retire, just as they can't pay on a forward basis with Social Security and Medicare?

This "proposal" can only mean one thing - Treasury smells smoke. Maybe you should pay attention to what they're huffing!

And before you say "oh they'd never do that" I want you to read this:

Here is a warning to us all. The Argentine state is taking control of the country’s privately-managed pension funds in a drastic move to raise cash.

...

My fear is that governments in the US, Britain, and Europe will display similar reflexes. Indeed, they have already done so. The forced-feeding of banks with fresh capital – whether they want it or not – and the seizure of the Fannie/Freddie mortgage giants before they were in fact in trouble (in order to prevent a Chinese buying strike of US bonds and prevent a spike in US mortgage rates), shows that private property can be co-opted – or eliminated – with little due process if that is required to serve the collective welfare.

Any questions?

PS: If the video shows up I'll update this ticker.... and if you're wondering what hammered the dollar starting at about 9:00 today, this is probably it. Such a "move" would free the government to further abuse the issuance of Treasuries rather than take necessary austerity steps and places us even further down the road toward a political and economic collapse.
[link to market-ticker.org]

Last Edited by Foxx. on 01/08/2010 09:40 PM
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Anonymous Coward
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01/08/2010 05:12 PM
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Re: 401k/IRA Screw Job Coming? Government is Going to Take Your Money!!!!!!
Gotta keep paying those government "workers" somehow, right?
Anonymous Coward
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01/08/2010 05:15 PM
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Re: 401k/IRA Screw Job Coming? Government is Going to Take Your Money!!!!!!
This is the same as the Rick Santelli pinned post. Your post is Karl Deninger's response to this crap! He sure didn't waste anytime getting that ticker out! 5a
Anonymous Coward
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01/08/2010 05:17 PM
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Re: 401k/IRA Screw Job Coming? Government is Going to Take Your Money!!!!!!
Between this and the 'healthcare' payments, we're screwed.

Carbon taxes on coal fed power plants are next. You can bet that the home owner will pay 100% of that carbon tax.
Foxx.  (OP)

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01/08/2010 05:17 PM
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Re: 401k/IRA Screw Job Coming? Government is Going to Take Your Money!!!!!!
Thanks for the Pin 8)
You are the driver, you Own the Road!!Stand up and Shout

I've a suggestion to keep you all occupied, Learn to Swim!!
Anonymous Coward
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01/08/2010 05:52 PM
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Re: 401k/IRA Screw Job Coming? Government is Going to Take Your Money!!!!!!
This is a sad day when our government seeks to destroy this nation.
intrigued
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01/08/2010 06:27 PM
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Re: 401k/IRA Screw Job Coming? Government is Going to Take Your Money!!!!!!
Do you all remember this back in October of 2008, after the market crash? It was an adviser to Obama "testifying", or was she just letting us know what was in store for us?

A plan by Teresa Ghilarducci, professor of economic-policy analysis at the New School for Social Research in New York, contains elements that are being considered. She testified last week before Miller’s Education and Labor Committee on her proposal. …

Under Ghilarducci’s plan, all workers would receive a $600 annual inflation-adjusted subsidy from the U.S. government but would be required to invest 5 percent of their pay into a guaranteed retirement account administered by the Social Security Administration. The money in turn would be invested in special government bonds that would pay 3 percent a year, adjusted for inflation.

The current system of providing tax breaks on 401(k) contributions and earnings would be eliminated.
Anonymous Coward
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01/08/2010 06:30 PM
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Re: 401k/IRA Screw Job Coming? Government is Going to Take Your Money!!!!!!
Do you all remember this back in October of 2008, after the market crash? It was an adviser to Obama "testifying", or was she just letting us know what was in store for us?

A plan by Teresa Ghilarducci, professor of economic-policy analysis at the New School for Social Research in New York, contains elements that are being considered. She testified last week before Miller’s Education and Labor Committee on her proposal. …

Under Ghilarducci’s plan, all workers would receive a $600 annual inflation-adjusted subsidy from the U.S. government but would be required to invest 5 percent of their pay into a guaranteed retirement account administered by the Social Security Administration. The money in turn would be invested in special government bonds that would pay 3 percent a year, adjusted for inflation.

The current system of providing tax breaks on 401(k) contributions and earnings would be eliminated.
 Quoting: intrigued 516293



needs to be repeated GOOD CATCH
Anonymous Coward
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01/08/2010 06:32 PM
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Re: 401k/IRA Screw Job Coming? Government is Going to Take Your Money!!!!!!
cash in all in now, and buy guns while you still can...
Anonymous Coward
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01/08/2010 06:40 PM
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Re: 401k/IRA Screw Job Coming? Government is Going to Take Your Money!!!!!!
cash in all in now, and buy guns while you still can...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 613629


I've been telling people on this forum for the last 3 years to "cash all in now"...hope some listened. And yes, the guns will be needed. Turn cash into materiels..supplies...tangibles....before it devalues to nothing.

You all need to google what Argentina did. They had money problems, too. That govt also stole the people's 401K's, turned them into treasuries...devalued the money...poof...gone.

Do your research..don't listen to me or anyone on any forum. Do your homework...research Argentina.

The exact same will happen here.
Anonymous Coward
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01/08/2010 06:42 PM
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Re: 401k/IRA Screw Job Coming? Government is Going to Take Your Money!!!!!!
The Current Money System does not work anymore.

What was a good idea back then (Social Security) "401K" has turned out to not be that great.
Anonymous Coward
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01/08/2010 06:47 PM
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Re: 401k/IRA Screw Job Coming? Government is Going to Take Your Money!!!!!!
cash in all in now, and buy guns while you still can...


I've been telling people on this forum for the last 3 years to "cash all in now"...hope some listened. And yes, the guns will be needed. Turn cash into materiels..supplies...tangibles....before it devalues to nothing.

You all need to google what Argentina did. They had money problems, too. That govt also stole the people's 401K's, turned them into treasuries...devalued the money...poof...gone.

Do your research..don't listen to me or anyone on any forum. Do your homework...research Argentina.

The exact same will happen here.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 860361



How do you "cash in" on a million dollar 401K? If there was a way to put it into investments, I would. But to take out cash, you pay huge taxes and then a 10% penalty on top of that. You won't have much left.
Anonymous Coward
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Argentina
01/08/2010 06:57 PM
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Re: 401k/IRA Screw Job Coming? Government is Going to Take Your Money!!!!!!
I lived this in 2008

[link to www.godlikeproductions.com]
Anonymous Coward
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Poland
01/08/2010 06:58 PM
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Re: 401k/IRA Screw Job Coming? Government is Going to Take Your Money!!!!!!
Let me be clear:

I have no quarrel with the government mandating that you have a choice in your IRA or 401k account to buy short-duration Treasuries - much like the "G" fund that government and civil-service workers have.


 Quoting: Foxx.





I vehemently disagree.

The one absolute fact we know is that this government is-not-trustworthy. Period. We need to replace it -- right now -- instead of allowing these miscreants to continue raping our bank accounts, liberty and future.
Anonymous Coward
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01/08/2010 07:00 PM
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Re: 401k/IRA Screw Job Coming? Government is Going to Take Your Money!!!!!!
cash in all in now, and buy guns while you still can...


I've been telling people on this forum for the last 3 years to "cash all in now"...hope some listened. And yes, the guns will be needed. Turn cash into materiels..supplies...tangibles....before it devalues to nothing.

You all need to google what Argentina did. They had money problems, too. That govt also stole the people's 401K's, turned them into treasuries...devalued the money...poof...gone.

Do your research..don't listen to me or anyone on any forum. Do your homework...research Argentina.

The exact same will happen here.



How do you "cash in" on a million dollar 401K? If there was a way to put it into investments, I would. But to take out cash, you pay huge taxes and then a 10% penalty on top of that. You won't have much left.
 Quoting: Faith



Either cash out and take a hit, or pray to god every night that the .gov will keep it safe.

It really is that simple.
Dr Doom

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01/08/2010 07:00 PM
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Re: 401k/IRA Screw Job Coming? Government is Going to Take Your Money!!!!!!
cash in all in now, and buy guns while you still can...


 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 613629




Running scared and getting your money out now
from an IRA or 401K will generate taxes and
penalties = extra money going to the government.

Maybe that is the plan.


You know what they say about a fool and his money...
in this case it's a fool and his 401K/IRA.

Never make an important decision based on fear and panic.

Know the facts.



~
__________

____
Anonymous Coward
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01/08/2010 07:03 PM
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Re: 401k/IRA Screw Job Coming? Government is Going to Take Your Money!!!!!!
if govcorp does grab those funds US markets will be punished mercilessly just as markets in Argentina were punished when that govcorp grabbed private retirement accounts there.

if you see it coming get out of the markets quick like a bunny.
Anonymous Coward
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01/08/2010 07:07 PM
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Re: 401k/IRA Screw Job Coming? Government is Going to Take Your Money!!!!!!
Let me be clear:

I have no quarrel with the government mandating that you have a choice in your IRA or 401k account to buy short-duration Treasuries - much like the "G" fund that government and civil-service workers have.







I vehemently disagree.

The one absolute fact we know is that this government is-not-trustworthy. Period. We need to replace it -- right now -- instead of allowing these miscreants to continue raping our bank accounts, liberty and future.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 860405

So you're happy with the goverents handling of social security and Medicare too?
Anonymous Coward
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01/08/2010 07:10 PM
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Re: 401k/IRA Screw Job Coming? Government is Going to Take Your Money!!!!!!
Check this out from Nov 08.

[link to www.rightsidenews.com]
Jessica6

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01/08/2010 07:17 PM
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Re: 401k/IRA Screw Job Coming? Government is Going to Take Your Money!!!!!!
From George Carlin's The American Dream:



they’re coming for your Social Security money. They want your fuckin' retirement money. They want it back so they can give it to their criminal friends on Wall Street, and you know something? They’ll get it
The urge to save humanity is always a false front for the urge to rule it. - HL Mencken
Anonymous Coward
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01/08/2010 07:28 PM
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Re: 401k/IRA Screw Job Coming? Government is Going to Take Your Money!!!!!!
Related:

[link to www.kitco.com]
Anonymous Coward
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United States
01/08/2010 07:33 PM
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Re: 401k/IRA Screw Job Coming? Government is Going to Take Your Money!!!!!!
cash in all in now, and buy guns while you still can...


I've been telling people on this forum for the last 3 years to "cash all in now"...hope some listened. And yes, the guns will be needed. Turn cash into materiels..supplies...tangibles....before it devalues to nothing.

You all need to google what Argentina did. They had money problems, too. That govt also stole the people's 401K's, turned them into treasuries...devalued the money...poof...gone.

Do your research..don't listen to me or anyone on any forum. Do your homework...research Argentina.

The exact same will happen here.



How do you "cash in" on a million dollar 401K? If there was a way to put it into investments, I would. But to take out cash, you pay huge taxes and then a 10% penalty on top of that. You won't have much left.
 Quoting: Faith


I don't know why they won't let you withdraw it to put it in other investments...real estate, small business...
Anonymous Coward
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Argentina
01/08/2010 08:17 PM
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Re: 401k/IRA Screw Job Coming? Government is Going to Take Your Money!!!!!!
From George Carlin's The American Dream:



they’re coming for your Social Security money. They want your fuckin' retirement money. They want it back so they can give it to their criminal friends on Wall Street, and you know something? They’ll get it
 Quoting: Jessica6




bump this video inmediately!!!
Anonymous Coward
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01/08/2010 08:31 PM
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Re: 401k/IRA Screw Job Coming? Government is Going to Take Your Money!!!!!!
"It's called The American Dream, because you have to be asleep to believe it". I love George.
Anonymous Coward
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01/08/2010 09:11 PM
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Re: 401k/IRA Screw Job Coming? Government is Going to Take Your Money!!!!!!
Move your IRA to a physical gold IRA.
Foxx.  (OP)

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01/08/2010 09:25 PM
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Re: 401k/IRA Screw Job Coming? Government is Going to Take Your Money!!!!!!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 802656

Excellent find! IMO this would be a much more feasible scenario. Collapse the markets and create a safe haven in bonds. The Sheeple would never know it.

Force them to buy treasuries will just create outrage and spur the revolution that IS coming.

Last Edited by Foxx. on 01/08/2010 09:26 PM
You are the driver, you Own the Road!!Stand up and Shout

I've a suggestion to keep you all occupied, Learn to Swim!!
Anonymous Coward
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01/08/2010 09:30 PM
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Re: 401k/IRA Screw Job Coming? Government is Going to Take Your Money!!!!!!
Related:

[link to www.kitco.com]

Excellent find! IMO this would be a much more feasible scenario. Collapse the markets and create a safe haven in bonds. The Sheeple would never know it.

Force them to buy treasuries will just create outrage and spur the revolution that IS coming.
 Quoting: Foxx.


Glad you liked it but its KD's thesis as well, he just doesn't state as clearly in his tickers as that article did from Kitco.
Foxx.  (OP)

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01/08/2010 09:37 PM
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Re: 401k/IRA Screw Job Coming? Government is Going to Take Your Money!!!!!!
Related:

[link to www.kitco.com]

Excellent find! IMO this would be a much more feasible scenario. Collapse the markets and create a safe haven in bonds. The Sheeple would never know it.

Force them to buy treasuries will just create outrage and spur the revolution that IS coming.


Glad you liked it but its KD's thesis as well, he just doesn't state as clearly in his tickers as that article did from Kitco.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 802656

I don't get that at all from KD's article.
He said,
But - "choices" have a funny way of turning into mandates, and this looks to me like a raw admission that Treasury knows it will not be able to sell its debt in the open market - so they will effectively tax you by forcing your "retirement" money to buy them!
 Quoting: Karl Denninger

Mandating 401k to buy bonds is not the same as collapsing the market and creating a safe haven in bonds... what am I missing here ?

Last Edited by Foxx. on 01/08/2010 09:38 PM
You are the driver, you Own the Road!!Stand up and Shout

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Aquarius 7

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01/08/2010 09:43 PM
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Re: 401k/IRA Screw Job Coming? Government is Going to Take Your Money!!!!!!
Gotta keep paying those government "workers" somehow, right?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 860346

. .

And therein lies the problem.

Back about 35 years ago ... I think about 1975 ... I was working for a Real Estate Broker (who happened to be a wise and prudent person), and I remember him saying that when the number of goverment workers reaches 20 percent or more of the working population, we will be in deep trouble.

He said this because we were just approaching that number at that time.


Tell me, if some one knows ... What is the present percentage of government workers? And by that I mean anyone and everyone who is receiving wages from federal, state, county or municipal sources?

:aqquest02:

. .

Last Edited by Aquarius 7 on 01/08/2010 09:43 PM
.

Cayce: “… The greater portion of Japan must go into the sea. …. then we may know it has begun …”. www.near-death.com/experiences/cayce11.html
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Anonymous Coward
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01/08/2010 09:44 PM
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Re: 401k/IRA Screw Job Coming? Government is Going to Take Your Money!!!!!!
Related:

[link to www.kitco.com]

Excellent find! IMO this would be a much more feasible scenario. Collapse the markets and create a safe haven in bonds. The Sheeple would never know it.

Force them to buy treasuries will just create outrage and spur the revolution that IS coming.


Glad you liked it but its KD's thesis as well, he just doesn't state as clearly in his tickers as that article did from Kitco.

I don't get that at all from KD's article.
He said,
But - "choices" have a funny way of turning into mandates, and this looks to me like a raw admission that Treasury knows it will not be able to sell its debt in the open market - so they will effectively tax you by forcing your "retirement" money to buy them!
Mandating 401k to buy bonds is not the same as collapsing the market and creating a safe haven in bonds... what am I missing here ?
 Quoting: Foxx.


Sorry didn't explain. I have been going to KD's site for well over a year and it is a common theme he says, it comes out mostly in the forum when he is chatting with other people in the forum. His point in the article is that treasury sales are declining, social security only bought contributed about 7% from receipts towards treasuries last year from historical values of around 50% (he doesn't talk about that in the article it was an article from ZH) and so, the balance of issue must come from somewhere since foreign purchase dropped to below 35% last year. There is the "household" column on the Fed's balance sheet but as ZH theorizes that is just outright or backdoor monetization by the Fed.

In this article he is theorizing it will come from 401k's mandated purchase of treasuries since SS is drying up but in the forum in the past he has talked about the PPT, GS, et al allowing the markets to collapse to herd ppl into treasuries. If this idea fails in developing any steam on the hill expect the markets to tank.
Anonymous Coward
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01/08/2010 09:46 PM
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Re: 401k/IRA Screw Job Coming? Government is Going to Take Your Money!!!!!!
Gotta keep paying those government "workers" somehow, right?

. .

And therein lies the problem.

Back about 35 years ago ... I think about 1975 ... I was working for a Real Estate Broker (who happened to be a wise and prudent person), and I remember him saying that when the number of goverment workers reaches 20 percent or more of the working population, we will be in deep trouble.

He said this because we were just approaching that number at that time.


Tell me, if some one knows ... What is the present percentage of government workers? And by that I mean anyone and everyone who is receiving wages from federal, state, county or municipal sources?

:aqquest02:

. .
 Quoting: Aquarius 7

I think it's close to 50% now.





GLP