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Why do YOU think YOU DON'T deserve HELL?

 
Anonymous Coward
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10/10/2009 07:28 PM
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Re: Why do YOU think YOU DON'T deserve HELL?
... you are the criminal in prison saying he is innocent and doesn't deserve to be here.
 Quoting: Preacher Bob


sounds like you made it there first.. hf
Anonymous Coward
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10/10/2009 07:35 PM
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Re: Why do YOU think YOU DON'T deserve HELL?
Well, let's see...

1. I didn't ASK to be here.
2. The damn game is rigged against us from the start.
3. We are damned for being as we were made.
4. We were set up to fail.
5. I don't believe God is mean, angry and vengeful.
6. We've been systematically lied to by every organized
religion since time began.
7. So we're supposed to burn for eternity for THIS raw
deal?

That's a start...
Anonymous Coward
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10/10/2009 07:36 PM
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Re: Why do YOU think YOU DON'T deserve HELL?
God your a Fuck up bully, putting starving African Children in hell.

Christians are Afraid of God cause he's a Bully, i'm not afraid
Anonymous Coward
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10/10/2009 07:41 PM
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Re: Why do YOU think YOU DON'T deserve HELL?
How about an aborigine living in the outback who has never even heard of the Xtian god? Does he deserve Hell?

How about ALL the people from neolithic societies? You know, the ones who existed at least 41,000 years before your ignorant bible scholars think the earth was created? Do they deserve Hell considering they existed long before the concepts of Xtianity you are trying to peddle here?

Or do only FEARFUL children like YOU deserve eternal punishment in 'Hell'?
 Quoting: Sinanju2



You are a Very Wise man, I hope you live long. hf
rancelot
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10/10/2009 07:43 PM
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Re: Why do YOU think YOU DON'T deserve HELL?
It wasn't my fault that Adam and Eve failed to obey God.

Furthermore, it is ludicrous to think that God would punish all of mankind because of one person's simple error, ignorance or oversight.

Wouldn't it be crazy if your son stole a chocolate bar and the court punished all of his descendants forever? Seems rather stupid to me.

yoda
Anonymous Coward
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10/10/2009 07:44 PM
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Re: Why do YOU think YOU DON'T deserve HELL?
Anytime I had a question about the religion I was being taught as a young person I was told that if I had those kind of questions I was probably not "REALLY SAVED"

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 591484


Well THAT'S a classic, isn't it?

"Shut up, sit down, be blissfully mindless, let US do your thinking for you, and fill the coffer on your way out..."

No frakking WONDER I've had issues with religion since I was old enough to ask... wtf
Anonymous Coward
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10/10/2009 07:44 PM
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Re: Why do YOU think YOU DON'T deserve HELL?
Because I spent nearly 20 years in Kansas and a couple in west Texas -- isn't that enough Hell for me?

*Edit for spelling -- it's my anniversary tonight and I've downed most of the bottle of Korbel. LOL
Anonymous Coward
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10/10/2009 07:46 PM
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Re: Why do YOU think YOU DON'T deserve HELL?
I'll put it to you this way. What would you think about a man who got a woman pregnant with the knowledge that he would torture his child for the next eighteen years?

IOW, why would God allow people to come into this world with the knowledge that they would make the wrong choice (based on YOUR theology) and go to Hell after they left this world? Even the victims of Hitler, Stalin, Nero, Pol Pot, Torquemada, etc. eventually died. The logical conclusion is that God chose to not know the decisions that we would make. If not, your theology makes no moral sense if you THINK (not a sin) about it.
Anonymous Coward
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10/10/2009 07:50 PM
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Re: Why do YOU think YOU DON'T deserve HELL?
Anytime I had a question about the religion I was being taught as a young person I was told that if I had those kind of questions I was probably not "REALLY SAVED"



Well THAT'S a classic, isn't it?

"Shut up, sit down, be blissfully mindless, let US do your thinking for you, and fill the coffer on your way out..."

No frakking WONDER I've had issues with religion since I was old enough to ask... wtf
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 718510

It sounds like he never heard of Doubting Thomas. Even the disciples weren't unthinking robotic drones, and they lived with Christ.
Anonymous Coward
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10/10/2009 07:53 PM
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Re: Why do YOU think YOU DON'T deserve HELL?
if religous people spent half as much time tending to their own sins and faults, as they do trying to tend to others sins and faults, then perhaps they would be a fairly good act to follow


Looking for an amen?
You got one.
 Quoting: The Professor 660063


bump
Anonymous Coward
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10/10/2009 07:57 PM
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Re: Why do YOU think YOU DON'T deserve HELL?
TELL US ALL PREACHER BOB..

how can we guarantee ourselves a ticket to heaven ?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 790774

Accept with your heart and confess with your mouth that Jesus Christ is your Lord and Savior. Make your confirmation of faith in front of others. Be baptized. Confess and repent of your sins.

Love God and others. Treat others as you wish to be treated. Forgive your foes, and pray for those who do wrong to you. Serve the least among us.
Anonymous Coward
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10/10/2009 08:01 PM
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Re: Why do YOU think YOU DON'T deserve HELL?
because i spread peace and love :)
and burning me forever would just be plain evil!
so do i get into heaven god? i mean preacher bob?
The Professor
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10/10/2009 08:03 PM
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Re: Why do YOU think YOU DON'T deserve HELL?
OK, Preacher Bob, let's talk. You believe that all it takes to get through the Pearly Gates is to believe that Christ died for your sins, and your belief is based upon what the Bible says.

Well, I will acknowledge that there are a few verses which promote this "justification by faith alone" theology; however, there are other verses which suggest the contrary, that we are judged solely by our works. Here are just a few examples (all references are from the KJV and any highlights are my own):


Matthew 7:21-26:

“Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand”

Matthew 16:27

For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

Matthew 25:31-46:

“When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.”

Now I ask you, where in that dialogue does Christ mention anything regarding bare faith as a condition of salvation? Christ makes it crystal clear that you will be judged according to how you treat others; those who mistreat others are condemned to hell, and those who are kind to others receive eternal life with Christ.

James 1:27:

“Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.”

Matthew 19:16-21

“And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet? Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.”

Mark 10:17-21

“And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life? And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God. Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother. And he answered and said unto him, Master, all these have I observed from my youth. Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.”

Luke 18:

“And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God. Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother. And he said, All these have I kept from my youth up. Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.”

1 John 2:3-5

“And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. ”

James 2:14-20

“What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?”

John 8:39

"They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham."

Revelation 20:12

"And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works."

Revelation 22:14

“Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.”

Actually, those who believe in justification by works (obeying the commandments) are following the words of Christ, James and John (including the book of Revelation). Those who adhere to justification by faith alone are following the words of Paul since it appears that all those verses which promote justification by faith alone are attributed to Paul. Here are those verses which advocate justification by faith alone: Romans 3:27; Romans 4:2; Romans 4:6; Romans 9:11; Romans 9:32; Romans 11:6; Galatians 2:6; Ephesians 2:9; 2 Timothy 1:9; Titus 3:5. As can be seen, these are the words of Paul. Now I am not a Bible believing Christian but I have to wonder why some Christians think more of Paul than they do of Christ!!

In plain truth, if Christ meant to dispense with good behavior as a condition for salvation, He did a disservice to humanity. If mere belief in Christ's divinity is more important than what a person does with his or her life, there is something drastically wrong with this divine scheme. This is especially true since it is a fact beyond dispute that while each of us can control what we do, we cannot control what we believe. Belief is not volitional, and no one can will themselves to believe one way or another. This is the fundamental flaw in all faith-based religions: the outrageous assumption that we can believe on command.

If there is a judging God, He will judge each of us not by what we believe, but rather how we live our lives in accordance with that belief. That is what a fair and just God would do. If I were God I would much prefer the eternal company of a devout Muslim over that of a half-hearted Christian or one who is a Jew in name only. I would also be totally delighted in the company of an atheist who lived his life in a manner he thought to be noble and just. Of course, I am not God (I applied for the position, but I was deemed to be overqualified – Joking!!
Anonymous Coward
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10/10/2009 08:35 PM
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Re: Why do YOU think YOU DON'T deserve HELL?
if he speaks without love then he is like the clmouring of a bell
 Quoting: Flaming Sword

Recall this message when you read the angry posts from the hateful fundies. Most conservative Christians are NOT like these people BTW.
Anonymous Coward
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10/10/2009 08:37 PM
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Re: Why do YOU think YOU DON'T deserve HELL?
Because I spent nearly 20 years in Kansas and a couple in west Texas -- isn't that enough Hell for me?

*Edit for spelling -- it's my anniversary tonight and I've downed most of the bottle of Korbel. LOL
 Quoting: Faith



HAPPY ANNIVERSARY.
Anonymous Coward
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10/10/2009 08:42 PM
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Re: Why do YOU think YOU DON'T deserve HELL?
because i spread peace and love :)
and burning me forever would just be plain evil!
so do i get into heaven god? i mean preacher bob?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 745210
Full Circle

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10/10/2009 08:44 PM
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Re: Why do YOU think YOU DON'T deserve HELL?
Haven't read the whole thread. I'm only responding to the opening post.

One. It's none of your business. This life I'm living is between me and God. I answer to that Source, and that Source alone.

You really shouldn't attempt to boost your own ego and perspective at the cost of belittling others.

You have a long way to go.
Born into this World
We create echoes of our inward yearnings
And Shift along the Axis
From matter to Spirit
- Scott Mutter
Anonymous Coward
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10/10/2009 08:44 PM
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Re: Why do YOU think YOU DON'T deserve HELL?
Since SO many of you think you are so good, I want to know why YOU think YOU should not be sent to hell.


What makes you think YOU are a GOOD person.


 Quoting: Preacher Bob



I am not good. I am perfect. I have never been anything but perfect. I have pretended many things, but I am unable to be anything but perfect.

God creates perfection and cannot create anything less than perfection.

We have created illusions and have tried to make them real, which will never be.

Once we cease to lie to ourselves, we see 'sin' for what it is, an illusion....(but at that time the illusion ceases to exist)...and we go home.
Anonymous Coward
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10/10/2009 09:14 PM
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Re: Why do YOU think YOU DON'T deserve HELL?
Because I spent nearly 20 years in Kansas and a couple in west Texas -- isn't that enough Hell for me?

*Edit for spelling -- it's my anniversary tonight and I've downed most of the bottle of Korbel. LOL



HAPPY ANNIVERSARY.
 Quoting: bed


Thanks!
Flaming Sword

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10/10/2009 09:21 PM
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Re: Why do YOU think YOU DON'T deserve HELL?
if he speaks without love then he is like the clmouring of a bell

Recall this message when you read the angry posts from the hateful fundies. Most conservative Christians are NOT like these people BTW.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 717897

gads

this is a thread I will be happy to see consigned to page zed.


I could go through and do the deletion thing...sorry for losing my cool folks, not where I am trying to go.
MagiChristmas

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10/10/2009 09:31 PM
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Re: Why do YOU think YOU DON'T deserve HELL?
So, tell me Bobbie... does a 2 month old child born to Hindus in India deserve Hell if he or she dies?


For the purpose of this discussion HELL IS REAL.

Now answer the question.

Or do you not like the answer?

The answer is merely your religious opinion. It has no basis in reality.


Then why do YOU NOT DESERVE HELL.
 Quoting: Preacher Bob


"By revelation the Lord had designated eight years as the age at which children may be properly baptized into the Church; and parents are required to prepare their children for the ordinances of the Church by teaching them the doctrines of faith, repentance, baptism, and the laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost. Failure in this requirement is accounted by the Lord as a sin resting upon the heads of the parents. (See D&C 68:25-27.)"

. . . the practice of infant baptism, which indeed they believe to be a sacrilege. No one having faith in the word of God can look upon the child as culpably wicked; such an innocent being needs no initiation into the fold, for he has never strayed therefrom; he needs no remission of sins for he has committed no sin; and should he die before he has become contaminated by the sins of earth he will be received without baptism into the paradise of God." - [link to 74.125.155.132]
Preacher Bob  (OP)

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10/10/2009 11:13 PM
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Re: Why do YOU think YOU DON'T deserve HELL?
Dear Preacher Bob, no one deserves to go to heaven. They, we, go there because Jesus died and paid for all of our sins. That was the only way anyone was going to heaven. We go there through grace, unmerited grace, not by works and not because anyone deserves it as no one does, not even Mother Theresa.

So the question is irrelevant regarding why no one thinks they deserve NOT to go to hell.
 Quoting: Mickeyblue 330969


But if you read the thread you see that the question is very relevant.


It is only not relevant to YOU.

You have the answer, but the others do not.

Something you should think about.

Why can you get the answer and they can not?


Perhaps because you thought never to ask anyone the question since it is irrelevant.

Jesus went to where the people were, That is what I am doing.

We are each called for different purposes.
John 4


He warns us to test all teachings before accepting them

1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.
1 John 4:1-5 (KJV)
Frigg Stuyvesant

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10/10/2009 11:19 PM
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Re: Why do YOU think YOU DON'T deserve HELL?
Cause God LOOOOVVEES ME!
Cui Bono?
Anonymous Coward
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10/10/2009 11:22 PM
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Re: Why do YOU think YOU DON'T deserve HELL?
why would i go to hell?
Anonymous Coward
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10/10/2009 11:22 PM
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Re: Why do YOU think YOU DON'T deserve HELL?
people believing in a hell while having a messianic complex-get a life worth meaning as opposed to a life that is a lie sold to you by the kings and popes.
 Quoting: neteru<>



i was not a christian and one time i curse god because of horrible physical pain and the whole room fill with darkness so black.....then i realize hell is real so his god and the bible.
Anonymous Coward
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10/10/2009 11:22 PM
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Re: Why do YOU think YOU DON'T deserve HELL?
why did i deserve it? you think your not in it now?
Anonymous Coward
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10/10/2009 11:25 PM
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Re: Why do YOU think YOU DON'T deserve HELL?
Who wants to live forever with the picky anal God the Christians claim he is? Not me. If God is an asshole, who needs him.

My point should be quite clear. I think Christ had it right, but his "followers" are slightly out of "whack". Besides who wants to go to an eternal place where there are millions of idiots who can't read. Seriously have you ever compared what the "christans" say compared to what the bible says? Exactly!
Frigg Stuyvesant

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10/10/2009 11:30 PM
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Re: Why do YOU think YOU DON'T deserve HELL?
Preacher Bob,


Please take 10 min of your time and watch this clip.



As much as I wouldn't want eternal damnation and the burning and all


....This says it all fairly succinctly.



[link to www.youtube.com]



I really do want to hear what you think of another mans honest and entitled opinion. Not joking.
Cui Bono?
Preacher Bob  (OP)

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10/10/2009 11:39 PM
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Re: Why do YOU think YOU DON'T deserve HELL?
Preacher Bob,


Please take 10 min of your time and watch this clip.



As much as I wouldn't want eternal damnation and the burning and all


....This says it all fairly succinctly.



[link to www.youtube.com]



I really do want to hear what you think of another mans honest and entitled opinion. Not joking.
 Quoting: Frigg Stuyvesant



No joking I will watch and let you know.
John 4


He warns us to test all teachings before accepting them

1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.
1 John 4:1-5 (KJV)
Frigg Stuyvesant

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10/10/2009 11:43 PM
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Re: Why do YOU think YOU DON'T deserve HELL?
I am a slave to reason..

I can't help it.
Cui Bono?





GLP