Why do YOU think YOU DON'T deserve HELL?

Forgive them for THEY KNOW NOT WHAT THEY DO. Know not who they are. Know not why they are here. Know not what to do.

The mind is completely ignorant, and has no knowledge of the self. Operating solely upon what has been haphazardly placed in it during its time on earth. All of which is not true.

How can you send that to hell?

According to pentecostal evangelica practice and teaching you MUST follow these simple steps to enter heaven.

1)First ya have to say a sinners prayer.

2)Then you have to go to church three times a week(At least)..each time giving ten percent of whats in your wallet to the fat dude up the front who drives luxury cars and lives in a mansion.

3)Then you have to learn to hate everyone else thats NOT a fundie seeing them as doomed and not worth your trouble to love or help or feed..as ALL your time and money gets dedicated to the fat greedy pastor up the front..

4)After a while you have to learn to HATE all other fundies or denominations with a PASSION and see THEM as wrong and DOOMED as well..if they so much as disagree with your denominations view on what day to worship..or what to eat..or the rapture debate..or even if adam had a belly button. (Ive seen churches coime apart over this..seriously)

5)You also must LOOK like the world...dress like the world..act like the world...set your church up to look like a rock concert hall..and fornicate and divorce and sleep around with all the women in the church..all the while condemning others of the world who do this. In short..you have to be as CLOSE as possible to what the world IS..but EXCUSE all your "Sins" with the "Im not perfect..just forgiven CRAP"

After doing all of this..THEN..you just might..according to THEM..be worthy of heaven.

People hurt people all the time, they did not mean to do it, they did not understand what they were doing.

Do they get away with it now?

Why would you think you can get away with it before GOD?

If he will let a child die, why would he prevent you from what you deserve?

You're talking about sheol from Jonah 2:2, I guess? Where Jonah says to God "I cried from hell and you heard me"?
Do you believe that God will actually hear people from hell, and deliver them, when they cry by reason of their affliction, as Jonah states? That's what it says here, provided sheol means "hell".


If sheol = hell, we should probably ask why Jacob was supposedly headed to "hell" in grief over being told that Joseph was dead. He said "For I will go down into [sheol] unto my son mourning" (Genesis 37). They translated it as "grave" here, but if it should actually be "hell", that raises the question *why* Jacob, heir to the covenant God made with Abraham, and who had wrestled with God and received a new name, thought he was going to hell over the alleged death of his favorite son.

Throughout the entire old testament, where does God *ever* define "hell" or warn of any kind of afterlife of fire?
If hell is real, why didn't He spell it out to Adam and Eve right at the start? Why didn't He announce it upon sentencing Cain, world's first murderer? What better opportunity to put on historical record the eternal consequences for such a horrible sin?
When we read the account, does the punishment God issued him - that of wandering the earth - sound anything like endless hellfire? Cain even complained that being a fugitive was too much to bear, so God actually relented a little and marked him for some degree of protection from vigilantes. God lightened up on a punishment that doesn't even sound all that horrendous to begin with.

God took the time to give Moses all those detailed laws and instructions - including how to menstruate - but neglected to mention one word about any afterlife. No warning about eternal judgment or damnation or fire or whatever. All the consequences of disobedience involved life on earth: illness, defeat, servitude, famine, dishonor, etc.

Meanwhile, the pagan peoples elsewhere all had various myths of an afterlife of doom for the wicked, in multiple flavors. It was as if they were competing to see who could concoct the scariest story.

So, the heathen world had this vital knowledge of your "hell" in excess, but God apparently withheld it from His own chosen people. They didn't acquire such beliefs until they went against His directive and consorted with these nations, adopting both their beliefs and rituals.


WTF, Bob?

You think much as Satan does, that if just enough people do wrong that God will give in.

Funny thing, God does not need US.

What is really funny is WE need him.


And you can think all you want that God won't be there "for ever".

Just as you can think many other silly things,

Believing in Santa Clause does not make him real.

Believing in God Does not make him real.


Being able to know the difference and why is something that you should be working on.

See it is simple if you are right we both get to go to heaven, HA HA.

If I am right only I Do. HA HA.

And you want me to NOT go because You are not.


Now that is funny, hang out with you while you destroy yourself.

<< You think much as Satan does, that if just enough people do wrong that God will give in. >>

Um, no. I'm interested in people doing right, not wrong. If you can find where I've *ever* implied (let alone claimed) that "sin is OK", please point it out ASAP.


<< And you can think all you want that God won't be there "for ever". >>

Wait - what?


<< See it is simple if you are right we both get to go to heaven, HA HA.

If I am right only I Do. HA HA.

And you want me to NOT go because You are not.


Now that is funny, hang out with you while you destroy yourself. >>

Why am I not going to heaven. . .isn't Christ's blood adequate for my redemption?

How am I "destroying" myself?

Where does your authority to make claims of no hell?


Many people listened to Christ, they came to be fed, they came to be healed.

Yet, when they did not hear what they wanted, they turned.

So you are saying that God is only about the Good, yet, we have many examples of his punishment on Man.

Do you think that Hitler will just go cumba ya with Jews in heaven?

He will not repent, thus he will not ever leave.

And living in La la land thinking that God will Give in and forgive Him, and allow him to come home,


And you do not even see what you are saying.

(And for the record, how is this funny? You're convinced I'm not going to heaven, and that I'm destroying myself, and. . .that makes you laugh?)

I think we went of "Gehenna" previously, so I'll skip it, and ask why you think sinners will receive an infinite excess of punishment, despite Jesus saying in the parable of the debtors that the unforgiving guy would not be released from torment until he paid the "uttermost farthing".

Does my saying "endless hellfire is a pagan myth" somehow translate into "there is no accountability" to your ears?
We reap what we sow. This was clearly established with the eye-for-an-eye and tooth-for-tooth tenets of the Law. No where does it ever suggest a one-size-fits-all punishment of endless fire. God loves justice, yes? That's not justice, and even most of us fallen human specks recognize it.

Have you found eternal hell in the OT yet?
God always urged the prophets to plainly warn people of their predicament, lest blood be on their own hands for not speaking up. . .yet He Himself appears to have neglected for hundreds of years to alert His favored people of the *worst* possible fate imaginable. Why is this?

Is English a second language for you?


"Now that is funny," Comma,"Hang out with you while you destroy yourself"

I find if funny that you would want me to hang out with you while you destroy yourself.

I do, not if the act itself, but in that you think I would do such a thing.

Now you want to turn this around and make it about heaven, that because there is no such thing as HELL, That we are ALL going to Heaven.


If this is not what you are saying, please explain.

What are you mumbling about.

I am very Clear, You either Go to Heaven or you Goto HELL.

Since you claim there is NO Hell, You think by default you goto heaven.

If not then what are you saying or trying to say?

there is no hell. there is no heaven either.

it is all made up by man in a vain attempt to undersatand something beyond comprehension and used to keep you 'in line'.

For starters, scripture defines eternal life as knowing God in Christ (John 17). It says nothing of "where" one ends up.

Heaven doesn't interest me all that much - I just wanna be with God. The point is that Jesus is the Heir of "all things" (Greek pas, meaning "all"), and He states in Matthew 11 "All things are delivered unto me of my Father".
If John 6, tells us that He'll lose *nothing* of what He was given, it kind of sounds like that "all" is in good hands, yes? Sure, not everybody is on board yet, but give it some time. He has a purification process for us to undergo, and frankly, if you're not familiar with it, I almost have to question whether you're really being refined, or are possibly just a band-wagon jumper who's joined the "right" gang.

Contrary to predominant church doctrine, He's not going to have to resort to burning the evidence of His failure, like some back-alley shyster. The "fire" has a *good* purpose. It was demonstrated in the OT in the ritual sacrifices of bulls and goats - symbols of our corrupt human nature. The putting to death of the "old self" by "fire".

People are gonna be fine. Yes, they need to repent, yes they need the Lamb. But He's got it covered. He knows the situation. It's time to put away the heathen fairy tales of infernal damnation, and stop slandering God.

And all this time I thought it was people who wanted to keep other people in line.

Generally by shutting you up. locking you up. or just shooting you.


And you do know in the past people thought the world was flat.

This was all they could see.


What makes you think you know better since you can't see heaven, or hell, that it does not exist?


PS- The question was why do you think you don't deserve hell.


It not existing does not mean you don't deserve it.

That is your idea, people are going to be fine,

I say they are not, you want to tell them they should just do what ever feels good,


God is Love, and he loves you, he wants you to be happy, so do that and you will be ok.


Spawn of Satan is what you are.


Plain as day.


You cling to wild translations that tell you what you want to hear.

Believing many paths to God, well, if you are right, I will be there too. Happy.

If I am right, you will be no where around.


If this made me happy, I would shut my mouth and let you goto hell.

Say have fun, enjoy your trip.



Jumping out of a plane does not kill you,....



It is that sudden meeting with the reality of the ground that will do it.

<< That is your idea, people are going to be fine,

I say they are not, you want to tell them they should just do what ever feels good, >>

See, now you're putting word in my mouth again. Is that really the way to go? Where did I even imply that people should do whatever they like? People need to get their act together. Fortunately, though, lots of normal, average people out there have a pretty good grip on how to treat their fellow man, with kindness or respect. You're aware that Jesus equated this to our treatment of Him, yes?


<< Spawn of Satan is what you are.

Plain as day. >>


It's been over a week since I've been called something like that :)

It does baffle me that when ya say "Jesus saves", the church-bots will holler "AMEN!" but the second you tell them "Jesus saves everyone", they're convinced you're the devil.


<< You cling to wild translations that tell you what you want to hear. >>

Actually, I seek the most accurate translation possible, so as to get God's intent with as little leaven as possible. Taking the book at face value without looking to verify its accuracy may work fine for you, but I'm no longer interested in what Religion Inc. has to sell me. They've been running this thing long enough, and it's time to put away the BS and meet God.


I just went through the first 8 pages of the thread, and I'm not seeing where you've offered any good news to anyone (unless I overlooked it). Yes, Jesus went to where the people are, but typically, He had something *beneficial* to give them, not a sour interrogation. I'll keep looking though.

I am glad that others see you for who you are, You would receive this everyday if you spent your time around those who knew more.


Denial of Hell, does not make it go away.

Looking for versions that tell you what you want to hear, does not mean that it is truth.


Jonah knew God would forgive them if they REPENTED, And he did not want to give them that chance.

You are saying why Repent, it is all good.






Tormented in this flame, and even seeing them raised from the dead they would not believe, they would come up with a story they like, Oh he was not really dead.

You have all you need to see the truth, and you REJECT it.



But you should go eyes wide open, there will be no I did not know, it will be a simple case that you rejected.


So it was nice how you want to say you don't deserve hell because it does not exist.

You can't say why you don't deserve it because you know you do.

But you don't like that so you say that Hitler is a Good person.




Do you think that Satan if he could change would?

And if he does not, what makes you think you can do it yourself?


You want a genie who can grant your wishes, And your first wish is there is no punishment for your wrong.

Why are you so convinced I'm going to hell? Have I not made it clear that Jesus is the Savior? Hell is not truth. Are you asserting that belief in *hell* is what saves us?
Christ is the Truth, and I can't live without Him.

There is punishment for wrongdoing - I've said so more than once. Scripture clearly says it's issued in direct proportion to our offenses. Murderers and sickos and corporate oppressors will receive a much steeper reckoning than some poor schmuck with a drinking problem or some nobody who's just a little bit selfish.


I already admitted that I deserve hell on page 6.


The parable of Eleazar and the Rich Man is a parable. If this were a literal account, why is the rich man (Judah) holding a conversation while on fire? Most people would be screaming uncontrollably. Why does he ask for a mere fingertip of water? How much do you think this would help?
This is a parable. Matthew 13 and Mark 4 both tell us that Jesus didn't preach without parables. If the "Lazarus" in the story is the same Lazarus Jesus raised from the dead, why had he been a beggar? His sister was apparently well off - she's the one who anointed Jesus with the perfume that cost something like a year's wages.
The story occurs in a section of scripture where Jesus is teaching about stewardship. It's an indictment of the Pharisees and their failure to produce fruit.


I've never once said "Why repent?". . .I've said people *need* to repent. The problem is that church folk typically think repentance is something that people can just conjure up at their whim (or demand), when (like faith) it's actually a gift from God. More than once, Acts talks about God "granting" repentance to someone. There are scores of christians who have yet to deeply repent. . .they think repentence = saying "I repent", when its actually an internal condition. It's like the father with the two sons: the first one said "Yes, I'll do it" but didn't do it, while the second one said "Nope" but later changed his mind and obeyed. Which one obeyed?

Do you have no concept of God changing the human heart? Is that why this sounds so foreign to you? Honest question.

I never once claimed Hitler is a good person. Now who's got reading issues? I said even Hitler does not deserve endless punishment. He neither killed an infinite number of people, nor tortured people endlessly. He was a sick, demented man. But guess what? He needs forgiveness. It wouldn't be a bad excercise if perhaps you grappled with the idea of forgiving him, despite all the misery and horror he caused.

anti-wormwood

Take your time.

I guess we'll pick this up again in another 16 months?

If one of us deserves hell we all deserve it. We are all guilty!

"But we are saved, but by the grace of God."

Why? Because I wasn't asked if I wanted to be put here with this choice in the first place. Given the choice I would have asked to be left in oblivion where I WASN'T aware before that day...

Isn't God guilty of creating Lucifer/Satan in the first place?
Bible states there is no imperfection found in God, then how could he create a being that had imperfection in him? Unless... He did it on purpose. Couldn't be a mistake, perfect makes no mistakes.

Was raised as pentecostal xtian since I was a kid... Never found a worse bunch of sinners hypocritical pieces of crap people elsewhere yet. They preach love and forgiveness, come as you are, then as soon as you're "hooked" get a haircut, drop that music, tv, lifestyle whatever they can find... Yet, they all sin worse than secular people. I've played band for 10 years live in churches with top evangelists. Cheating on their wife, making false prophecies, stealing money, abusing the weak (bodied and minded) drugs on stage were crazy, people played drunk and or stoned... I could go on. But hey, what do I know?

No more preaching Bob?