How many failed to read and understand the QUESTION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sure show us what else you got.

Aight, But I have to say first that I really don't appreciate being called a possible BOT on the other thread (of mine) that we were on.

I am NOT a BOT and I am NOT hateful or a TROLL (on my own thread WTF???) or a Shill.

I have had to change my belief system myself, and it was life shattering.

I have experienced being a "believer" Christian for many years and really did my best with my full heart, mind and soul/spirit to Love God / Jesus, etc as the Babble says, only to find out that it is NOT Inerrant and therefore questionable altogether.

I was baptized in the "Holy Spirit" at age 12, I am 38 now.

I have spent nearly 5 years of my life nearly every night praying at a church for HOURS on my face before God.

I can still pray in tongues, however I now have recently come to a firm solid belief that the Wholly-Babble is NOT Inerrant and comprised primarily of BullShit, even though I have seen some-of-what can be described as Mighty Wonders and Miraculous Miracles too.

The contradictions and the discrepancies are numerous...

So what really happened to Paul on the road to Damascus? You'd never know from reading the Bible.

There are several problems with Paul’s various accounts of his journey to Damascus. The first problem involves an obvious self-contradiction regarding what those who were with Paul saw and heard. According to one account (Acts Chapter 9) those with Paul heard a voice but saw no man; while in another account (Acts Chapter 22) the men with Paul did not hear a voice, although they did see a light. Here is what YOUR Bible says:

“And he [Paul] fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks. And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do. And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man” (Acts 9:4-7).

“And I fell unto the ground, and heard a voice saying unto me, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? And I answered, Who art thou, Lord? And he said unto me, I am Jesus of Nazareth, whom thou persecutest. And they that were with me saw indeed the light, and were afraid; but they heard not the voice of him that spake to me” (Acts 22:7-9).

The second problem deals with when and where Paul got his instructions from Christ; was it on the road to Damascus, or was it later in Damascus? According to Acts, Chapters 9 and 22, Christ gives Paul no information during the epiphany on the road to Damascus; however, in Acts Chapter 26, Christ tells Paul what God’s plans are for him. So what did Christ really say to Paul on the road to Damascus? The varied accounts of the Bible give no clue Here are the appropriate verses:

“And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do” (Acts 9:6).

“And I said, What shall I do, Lord? And the Lord said unto me, Arise, and go into Damascus; and there it shall be told thee of all things which are appointed for thee to do.
“ (Acts 22:10).

“And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest. But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee; Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee, To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me” (Acts 26:15-18).

So, what did Christ tell Paul on the road to Damascus? Christians don't know because apparently Paul does not know. Paul, one of greatest figures in all of Christian history, just can't seem to get his story straight.

The third problem is whether the men who were with Paul were standing or “fallen to the ground when they heard the voice (although according to one of Paul’s version, none of those with him heard a voice). The Bible gives two accounts, one (Acts Chapter 9) in which the men with Paul were standing (although Paul had fallen to the ground), and another (Acts Chapter 26) in which all the men had fallen to the ground

“And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven: And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.

And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do. And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man.” (Acts 9:3-7 showing that the men with Paul were standing).

COMPARED TO:

“At midday, O king, I saw in the way a light from heaven, above the brightness of the sun, shining round about me and them which journeyed with me. And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.

And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest. But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee” (Acts 26:13-15 showing that the men with Paul had fallen to the ground).

The oft-quoted story about Paul’s conversion on the road to Damascus is filled with contradictions. Some may find these contradictions to be minor; however, we are talking about a book which is, according to fundamentalist Christians, the complete, inspired and inerrant word of God. Since God is perfect, the authorship of any book which is less than perfect, cannot be ascribed to God or anyone inspired by Him.

@Sir.Kalin

Lost the page, I have to get ready for a funeral, I have had 2 relatives die and one friend this week.

I will be back later tonight.

Please forgive me for any offense I may have caused. It was meant not to hurt, only to wake up.

Last Edited by Preacher Bob on 09/25/2009 08:50 AM

Wrote them here, let us see in your vision

Here is what became the kicker against babblical inerrancy for me:

The second chapter of Ezra provides a list of the Jewish people returning to Judah after their captivity in Babylon. It makes for rather dull reading: just a list of men's names and the number of offspring that accompanied each of them.

The same list is given in the seventh chapter of Nehemiah (as though once were not enough), but the two lists contradict each other in 19 places.

As an example, consider the very first of these contradictions: Ezra 2:5 says "the children of Arah, seven hundred seventy and five," but Neh.7:10 contradicts this saying, "the children of Arah, six hundred fifty and two." There are 18 other similar contradictions between the two accounts.

Ezra
(2:5) How many children of Arah returned from Babylon?

775
Ezra 2:5
The children of Arah, seven hundred seventy and five.

652
Nehemiah 7:10
The children of Arah, six hundred fifty and two.


How many of Pahathmoab, Jeshua, and Joab's offspring returned from Babylon?

2812
Ezra 2:6
The children of Pahathmoab, Jeshua, and Joab, two thousand eight hundred and twelve.

2818
Nehemiah 7:11
The children of Pahathmoab, of the children of Jeshua and Joab, two thousand eight hundred and eighteen.

How many of Zattu's offspring returned from Babylon?

945
Ezra 2:8
The children of Zattu, nine hundred and forty and five.

845
Nehemiah 7:13
The children of Zattu, eight hundred and forty five.

How many of Bani's offspring returned from Babylon?
642
Ezra 2:10
The children of Bani, six hundred forty and two.

648
Nehemiah 7:15
The children of Binnui, six hundred forty and eight.

How many of Bebai's offspring returned from Babylon?

623
Ezra 2:11
The children of Bebai, six hundred twenty and three.

628
Nehemiah 7:16
The children of Bebai, six hundred twenty and eight.

How many of Azgad's offspring returned from Babylon?

1222
Ezra 2:12
The children of Azgad, one thousand two hundred twenty and two.

2322
Nehemiah 7:17
The children of Azgad, two thousand three hundred twenty and two.


How many of Adonikam's offspring returned from Babylon?

666
Ezra 2:13
The children of Adonikam, six hundred sixty and six.

667
Neh.7:18
The children of Adonikam, six hundred threescore and seven.

How many of Bigvai's offspring returned from Babylon?

2056
Ezra 2:14
The children of Bigvai, two thousand fifty and six.

2067
Nehemiah 7:19
The children of Bigvai, two thousand threescore and seven.



How many of Adin's offspring returned from Babylon?

454
Ezra 2:15
The children of Adin, four hundred fifty and four.

655
Nehemiah 7:20
The children of Adin, six hundred fifty and five.

How many of Bezai's offspring returned from Babylon?
323
Ezra 2:17
The children of Bezai, three hundred twenty and three.

324
Nehemiah 7:23
The children of Bezai, three hundred twenty and four.

Like I said earlier there are more, however I am tired of working on posting it all here, anybody can go and compare the 2 chapters to see all 19 (many times major) mathematical discrepancies.

Last Edited by Lord.Kayle on 09/25/2009 09:03 AM

Ok, thanks, I can do that, and understand.

Romans 3:7 - "For if the truth of God hath more abounded THROUGH MY LIE, unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner?"  Paul lied not only about grace but also about his conversion to Christianity.  

Acts 9:3-7 - Paul says "......... hearing a voice but seeing no man."

Acts 22:6-9 - Paul says ".... saw indeed the light, and were afraid; but heard NOT the voice of him ........."

Acts 26:12-14 - Paul says  "...... and them which journeyed with me."

In his 1st version Paul says there were men with him who heard a voice but saw nothing.

In his 2nd version Paul says there were men with him who saw the light but heard nothing.  

In his 3rd version Paul says himself and all the men with him fell to the ground.

In a court of law Paul's testamony would be treated as evidence of perjury!!  

Nice Find!

I can believe it firsthand, however will still have to check it out more thoroughly to verify.

Thanks goes to AC 672251 who posted it on another thread.

<<Theme to Mission Impossible plays>>

Imagine the following conversation between the newly Widowed Alice and her friend Darlene:

Alice: Just before John died he asked me to come close to him, and when I did he whispered something into my ear and immediately he died.

Darlene: What did your husband say?

Alice: I can't remember.

It sounds silly, because it is silly. Of course a woman is going to remember the dying words of her husband. However, the Bible is even sillier because the Gospel writers cannot remember the last words of the most important being in the history of the world, their Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

The various Gospel writers give different and conflicting accounts of Christ's dying words Here are the words Christ spoke as he was nailed to the cross:

Matthew 27:46

“And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?”

Now in verse 50, Matthew says that “Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.” However, it is unclear whether Verse 50 refers to verse 46 or suggest that Jesus let out a wail of some kind after he uttered the words in verse 46.

Mark 15:34

“And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?”

Now in verse Now in verse 37, Mark says that “And Jesus cried with a loud voice, and gave up the ghost.” However, it is unclear whether Verse 37 refers back to verse 34, or suggests that Jesus let out a wail after he uttered the words in verse 34

Luke:
1. “Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do” (23:34)
2. “Verily I say unto thee, today shalt thou be with me in paradise” (23:43)
3. “And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit, and having said this he gave up the ghost” (23:46).

John
1. “Behold they mother” (Christ speaking to John in 19:27).
2. “I thirst” (19:28).
3. “When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished, and he bowed his head and gave up the ghost” (19:30).

Christian apologists have stooped to the lowest levels of intellectual dishonesty in an attempt to reconcile the conflicting accounts of Christ's last words. John Remsberg said it best:

With the Four Gospels before them, Christians do not know what his last words were. The two most popular English Lives of Christ are those of Dr. Farrar and Dr. Geikie. These writers were contemporaries and friends, and both were adherents of the same church. Both, with these Gospels for their authorities, attempt to portray the closing scene. I quote from each:

Dr. Farrar: "And now the end was come. Once more, in the words of the sweet Psalmist of Israel, but adding to them that title of trustful love which, through Him, is permitted to the use of all mankind, 'Father' he said, 'into Thy hands I commend my spirit.' Then with one more great effort he uttered the last cry -- the one victorious word, 'IT IS FINISHED.'"

Dr. Geikie: "A moment more, and all was over. The cloud had passed as suddenly as it rose. Far and wide, over the vanquished throngs of his enemies, with a loud voice, as if uttering his shout of eternal victory before entering into his glory, he cried, 'It is finished!' Then, more gently, came the words, 'FATHER, INTO THY HANDS I COMMEND MY SPIRIT'" (The Christ, pp 145, 146; also identified as article 356).

There is one other contradiction which I must note. In Luke, Christ promised paradise to the thief who did not revile him (“Verily I say unto thee, today shalt thou be with me in paradise”); however Matthew and Luke mention no such promise although both authors mention the two thieves (John says that two others were crucified with Christ, but he does not identify them as thieves). The obvious reason for the omission of Christ's promise of paradise in Matthew is that Matthew says - contrary to what Luke says - both thieves reviled Christ (Matthew 27:39-44).

Everywhere you turn in the Bible, you will find one contradiction after the other. those who say the Bible contains no contradictions obviously haven't read the book.

Sounds to me if some of the men saw light, other men with him heard a voice, but all of them fell to their knees.

You may not be a BOT but you are a spiritual retard. And you have never been born again. You have however had a multitude of spiritual experiences, yet your knowledge of the Bible is so ignorant a first year bible college student could easily refute all your retarded rants about contradictions. But I am concerned as to whether it is worth my time to point out what a retard you are.

Generational Satanist love to tell tales of how they were "Christians" and how they integrated their lives in the Church and then discovered what a fluke it was. I've heard this story a thousand times and every time I hear it it sounds like a pack of lies. You were never redeemed, and never a Christian.

The fact that you can't seem to grasp even the simplest of spiritual principles proves to me that your spirit is dead and is incapable of any spiritual life, that is what is at the heart of a retard. nThe draw of an antagonist to be held as an expert at what they do not understand. You are quite pathetic really.

Yeah, they were written by two seperate authors, not the same author. Mistakes can be made in counting heads of people, especially when you don't have all the modern convienances of today, yet it does not show any contradiction, only that two seperate authors had two seperate ideas or counts of peoples. How does this relate to the Bibles inspiration. Numbers are not doctrine and the Bible was written by inspiration by human scribes. There are mistakes, but no contradictions in doctrine.

Could be one way to explain it. (not the correct answer though).

How about this one:

Amos 7:3 The Lord repented for this: It shall not be, saith the Lord.

The Lord does not repent; men repent.

MC

The count included different groups reported on by each.

The poster did not have a "kicker for me". He is a heathen satanic liar copying this off a website somewhere, or traded among satanist. They have no interest in the truth. When shown the biblical answer they just post again later, continue in their dogmatic doctrine of man.

Yeah it was the correct answer.

The Lord repented for wanting to destroy Israel.

No the gospels do not conflict anywhere, they pickup the story at different points. You've been shown before. You are dogmatic in your paganism.

Your head's so far up your ass, how can you even breathe?

Bleeter SHILLS for the democrat mafia THINK they're on the good guys' side, too. Just like you do.

You're both the SAME morally, intellectually, spiritually, STUPID bleeting asses, WORTHLESS USELESS NOTHING DEAD AIR VOMIT BREATH.

If anyone's named Satan, you just didn't get shit from what your Baibel taught you.

Maybe you should read it?

Retard.

The Lord doesn't sin so He doesn't need to repent.

Try again.

And if anyone had to bear the name of Satan according to the description you christards make of "him", wouldn't it be that retarded teenager who kills babies, throws tantrums at humans and takes revenge when he doesn't get what he wants, who you call your GOD?

But you say the Bible is inerrant, and I quote "the Bible was written by inspiration by human scribes".

Who was inspiring?

Are you saying our Creator makes mistakes?

Want to discuss contradictions in doctrine next?

Peace.

the liberal interpretation in NAS Heb 9:28, which contadicts the KJV, might lead some to err. perhaps preacher bob?

2 choices:

1. The bible was written by God - Therefore, the bible contains no errors

2. The bible was written by people - Therefore, the bible contains errors


All the back and forth in the world won't change those two options. So?

Last Edited by Here-I-Am on 09/25/2009 12:47 PM

here i am says:

2 choices:

1. The bible was written by God - Therefore, the bible contains no errors

2. The bible was written by people - Therefore, the bible contains errors

third choice, this post was written by a dufus. grow a grey cell or two.

Our Creator sent a Final Testament, without error or contradiction, to clarify what is in the previous Books.

The Bible was written by man, but the Truth is still inside. It's harder to find with all the additions and esoteric teachings.

Peace.

I'll assume you are going with #2.

Unless you live by your word and help people in need around you, you christurds are just useless pieces of crap who just shouldn't exist.