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Canada's top doctor: Health care system 'imploding'...

 
mathetes
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08/16/2009 11:20 PM
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Canada's top doctor: Health care system 'imploding'...
SASKATOON — The incoming president of the Canadian Medical Association says this country's health-care system is sick and doctors need to develop a plan to cure it.

Dr. Anne Doig says patients are getting less than optimal care and she adds that physicians from across the country - who will gather in Saskatoon on Sunday for their annual meeting - recognize that changes must be made.

"We all agree that the system is imploding, we all agree that things are more precarious than perhaps Canadians realize," Doing said in an interview with The Canadian Press.

"We know that there must be change," she said. "We're all running flat out, we're all just trying to stay ahead of the immediate day-to-day demands."

The pitch for change at the conference is to start with a presentation from Dr. Robert Ouellet, the current president of the CMA, who has said there's a critical need to make Canada's health-care system patient-centred. He will present details from his fact-finding trip to Europe in January, where he met with health groups in England, Denmark, Belgium, Netherlands and France.

His thoughts on the issue are already clear. Ouellet has been saying since his return that "a health-care revolution has passed us by," that it's possible to make wait lists disappear while maintaining universal coverage and "that competition should be welcomed, not feared."

In other words, Ouellet believes there could be a role for private health-care delivery within the public system.

He has also said the Canadian system could be restructured to focus on patients if hospitals and other health-care institutions received funding based on the patients they treat, instead of an annual, lump-sum budget. This "activity-based funding" would be an incentive to provide more efficient care, he has said.

Doig says she doesn't know what a proposed "blueprint" toward patient-centred care might look like when the meeting wraps up Wednesday. She'd like to emerge with clear directions about where the association should focus efforts to direct change over the next few years. She also wants to see short-term, medium-term and long-term goals laid out.

"A short-term achievable goal would be to accelerate the process of getting electronic medical records into physicians' offices," she said. "That's one I think ought to be a priority and ought to be achievable."

A long-term goal would be getting health systems "talking to each other," so information can be quickly shared to help patients.

Doig, who has had a full-time family practice in Saskatoon for 30 years, acknowledges that when physicians have talked about changing the health-care system in the past, they've been accused of wanting an American-style structure. She insists that's not the case.

"It's not about choosing between an American system or a Canadian system," said Doig. "The whole thing is about looking at what other people do."

"That's called looking at the evidence, looking at how care is delivered and how care is paid for all around us (and) then saying 'Well, OK, that's good information. How do we make all of that work in the Canadian context? What do the Canadian people want?' "

Doig says there are some "very good things" about Canada's health-care system, but she points out that many people have stories about times when things didn't go well for them or their family.

"(Canadians) have to understand that the system that we have right now - if it keeps on going without change - is not sustainable," said Doig.

"They have to look at the evidence that's being presented and will be presented at (the meeting) and realize what Canada's doctors are trying to tell you, that you can get better care than what you're getting and we all have to participate in the discussion around how do we do that and of course how do we pay for it."

[link to www.google.com]
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
mathetes  (OP)

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08/16/2009 11:34 PM
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Re: Canada's top doctor: Health care system 'imploding'...
Dr. Anne Doig says patients are getting less than optimal care and she adds that physicians from across the country - who will gather in Saskatoon on Sunday for their annual meeting - recognize that changes must be made

Gee I though govt. run healthcare was a good thing
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Anonymous Coward
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08/16/2009 11:35 PM
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Re: Canada's top doctor: Health care system 'imploding'...
Quebec : everybody wants euthanasia (see news ...)
Anonymous Coward
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08/16/2009 11:39 PM
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Re: Canada's top doctor: Health care system 'imploding'...
tptb always want a crisis happening. you should know that. are system works pretty good and except for the insanity of building massive infrastructure for no other reason than to goose the economy and make some people a lot of money.
mathetes  (OP)

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08/16/2009 11:44 PM
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Re: Canada's top doctor: Health care system 'imploding'...
tptb always want a crisis happening. you should know that. are system works pretty good and except for the insanity of building massive infrastructure for no other reason than to goose the economy and make some people a lot of money.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 550600

You know I was never into the whole manufactured "crisis thing" but after studying the Progressive movement in the 20th century (Wilson,FDR etc) they plainly talk about the opp. crisis do bring...
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
lilmisscantbewrong

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08/16/2009 11:48 PM
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Re: Canada's top doctor: Health care system 'imploding'...
I'm Canadian, and while I understand that Americans do not want a medical system like ours we do a couple of good points you should consider.

If I am sick or injured I can go to any clinic, doctors office or emergency room for treatment. I don't have to worry about paying for it.

Our health standards are also one of the highest in the world, and we also live longer.

Yes, there is a downside. Service is slow and sometimes waiting time for special services is beyond disgustingly long. It's true that some people die before they can get treated.

We also have an extreme shortage of doctors which doesn't help.

We know our system needs work. If it were me running the show, I would want lower taxes and a user pay system as well.

However, I don't understand why in your battle over the new health care bill you need to keep dragging Canada's name through the mud. It's rather unneighborly, hmmm?
Anonymous Coward
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08/16/2009 11:49 PM
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Re: Canada's top doctor: Health care system 'imploding'...
More excuses to let people die!
mathetes  (OP)

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08/16/2009 11:51 PM
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Re: Canada's top doctor: Health care system 'imploding'...
I'm Canadian, and while I understand that Americans do not want a medical system like ours we do a couple of good points you should consider.

If I am sick or injured I can go to any clinic, doctors office or emergency room for treatment. I don't have to worry about paying for it.

Our health standards are also one of the highest in the world, and we also live longer.

Yes, there is a downside. Service is slow and sometimes waiting time for special services is beyond disgustingly long. It's true that some people die before they can get treated.

We also have an extreme shortage of doctors which doesn't help.

We know our system needs work. If it were me running the show, I would want lower taxes and a user pay system as well.

However, I don't understand why in your battle over the new health care bill you need to keep dragging Canada's name through the mud. It's rather unneighborly, hmmm?
 Quoting: lilmisscantbewrong

If you'll read the OP its not me "draging" Canada anywhere

Its the president of the Canadian Medical Association who says the system is "sick"


And if you guys can't get a system to work for 33 million people how can we expect to get one to work for 10 times that many people?

Last Edited by mathetes on 08/16/2009 11:52 PM
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Anonymous Coward
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08/17/2009 12:17 AM
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Re: Canada's top doctor: Health care system 'imploding'...
We also have an extreme shortage of doctors which doesn't help.
 Quoting: lilmisscantbewrong

We are a family of modest means. I have worked like a dog my whole life so my kids could have something better.

My oldest son is in med school. Just took the national exam all med students take after second year. He scored over 95 percentile nationally.

He will have over 1/4 of a million dollars in debt by the time he gets out. It's two more years of rotation during which he makes no money but pays tuition and has ordinary living expenses. Then three years of residency where he will make too little to pay any on his debts, which will keep mounting.

Just go ahead and nationalize health care and cap doctors' salaries. See how many doctors you will have. About half of all U.S. practitioners are above or near retirement age. My youngest son, who is smarter than the first, is watching carefully, weighing the odds he could ever pay off such a debt. I hope he goes to med school, but if he doesn't I can't blame him.

Oh, and save your stupid bullshit flags.
Anonymous Coward
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08/17/2009 12:20 AM
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Re: Canada's top doctor: Health care system 'imploding'...
But it's FREE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11
Anonymous Coward
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08/17/2009 12:23 AM
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Re: Canada's top doctor: Health care system 'imploding'...
I'm Canadian, and while I understand that Americans do not want a medical system like ours we do a couple of good points you should consider.

If I am sick or injured I can go to any clinic, doctors office or emergency room for treatment. I don't have to worry about paying for it.
 Quoting: lilmisscantbewrong


Yes you do pay for it via insane taxes. I'm sick to death of paying so many friggin taxes to freeloaders. I paid for you doctor visit. People in Canada go to the doctor for a runny nose (sniffles). Senior citizens go once a week just in case.

You people have to realize nothing is free, somebody pays for it. I'd rather have no income tax and pay 5000 a year in health insurance.
The CitizenModerator
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08/17/2009 12:28 AM

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Re: Canada's top doctor: Health care system 'imploding'...
siren2
"If there is a new fascism, it won't come from skinheads and punks; it will come from people who eat granola and think they know how the world should be." - Brian Eno
lillie8

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08/17/2009 12:29 AM
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Re: Canada's top doctor: Health care system 'imploding'...
tptb always want a crisis happening. you should know that. are system works pretty good and except for the insanity of building massive infrastructure for no other reason than to goose the economy and make some people a lot of money.

You know I was never into the whole manufactured "crisis thing" but after studying the Progressive movement in the 20th century (Wilson,FDR etc) they plainly talk about the opp. crisis do bring...
 Quoting: mathetes


Now that Obama has taken the public option off the table...what do you think they will do next? What crisis will they manufacture?
The CitizenModerator
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08/17/2009 12:35 AM

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Re: Canada's top doctor: Health care system 'imploding'...
tptb always want a crisis happening. you should know that. are system works pretty good and except for the insanity of building massive infrastructure for no other reason than to goose the economy and make some people a lot of money.

You know I was never into the whole manufactured "crisis thing" but after studying the Progressive movement in the 20th century (Wilson,FDR etc) they plainly talk about the opp. crisis do bring...


Now that Obama has taken the public option off the table...what do you think they will do next? What crisis will they manufacture?
 Quoting: lillie8


probably court cases against Bush and Cheney for war crimes
"If there is a new fascism, it won't come from skinheads and punks; it will come from people who eat granola and think they know how the world should be." - Brian Eno
Anonymous Coward
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08/17/2009 12:44 AM
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Re: Canada's top doctor: Health care system 'imploding'...
Yes. Canadians do pay for it. There is no such thing as free medical care.

It is a service that is provided to you. It is not your right to have it. People pay another person.

There is nothing wrong with having a government system but it is not going to work in this country. It is better to find other private sector solutions.
TurnOffYourTV

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08/17/2009 12:46 AM
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Re: Canada's top doctor: Health care system 'imploding'...
We also have an extreme shortage of doctors which doesn't help.


 Quoting: lilmisscantbewrong


Well, why do you think that is? Maybe because the earnings aren't worth the cost and hard work it takes to be a doctor. Did you ever think of that?

And sorry, it's not free. You pay additional taxes, most of which goes to the government instead of the health care professionals.

I'll pass...I'd rather pay the health care pros directly, so they can be happy, relaxed, and love their jobs and their salaries, thus encouraging them to be better at their jobs. They worked hard to be what they are, and they deserve their pay. Why should the government get even half of it? All the government does is lie and steal freedom away from all of us.

Please, start thinking.

Last Edited by TurnOffYourTV on 08/17/2009 12:49 AM
KILL YOUR TV NOW! IT IS HYPNOTIZING AND BRAINWASHING YOU! TURN IT OFF FOR GOOD!
mathetes  (OP)

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08/17/2009 12:52 AM
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Re: Canada's top doctor: Health care system 'imploding'...
tptb always want a crisis happening. you should know that. are system works pretty good and except for the insanity of building massive infrastructure for no other reason than to goose the economy and make some people a lot of money.

You know I was never into the whole manufactured "crisis thing" but after studying the Progressive movement in the 20th century (Wilson,FDR etc) they plainly talk about the opp. crisis do bring...


Now that Obama has taken the public option off the table...what do you think they will do next? What crisis will they manufacture?
 Quoting: lillie8

Great question! Progressives(which Obama is)love to have social wars, Prohibiton etc....they considered WWI a great social experiment.
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
lillie8

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08/17/2009 12:57 AM
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Re: Canada's top doctor: Health care system 'imploding'...
tptb always want a crisis happening. you should know that. are system works pretty good and except for the insanity of building massive infrastructure for no other reason than to goose the economy and make some people a lot of money.

You know I was never into the whole manufactured "crisis thing" but after studying the Progressive movement in the 20th century (Wilson,FDR etc) they plainly talk about the opp. crisis do bring...


Now that Obama has taken the public option off the table...what do you think they will do next? What crisis will they manufacture?


probably court cases against Bush and Cheney for war crimes
 Quoting: The Citizen


You know you are probably right. Watch them start deflecting come Monday morning, although I don't think they fully appreciate nor understand the coming storm.
Anonymous Coward
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08/17/2009 01:00 AM
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Re: Canada's top doctor: Health care system 'imploding'...
We also have an extreme shortage of doctors which doesn't help.

We know our system needs work. If it were me running the show, I would want lower taxes and a user pay system as well.


 Quoting: lilmisscantbewrong


Did you read my full post? I don't want to get into a pissing match with all of you. I won't win anyway.

And if you didn't intend to slag Canada why did you base your post on that medical report?

I know our system is broken. I know our doctors go elsewhere because of salary caps. They go to the U.S.

I repeat: if it were me I'd like lower taxes and a user pay system as well. So I understand that I pay for it through my taxes. Unfortunately I am not the supreme ruler of Canada.

And you can't go to the doctor for sniffles, it takes two weeks to a month to even get an appointment to go in.

What I am saying is this: your senators and President Asshat have no right to drag our system into your health care bill argument. This isn't about us, its about you.
TurnOffYourTV

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08/17/2009 01:05 AM
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Re: Canada's top doctor: Health care system 'imploding'...
We also have an extreme shortage of doctors which doesn't help.

We know our system needs work. If it were me running the show, I would want lower taxes and a user pay system as well.




Did you read my full post? I don't want to get into a pissing match with all of you. I won't win anyway.

And if you didn't intend to slag Canada why did you base your post on that medical report?

I know our system is broken. I know our doctors go elsewhere because of salary caps. They go to the U.S.

I repeat: if it were me I'd like lower taxes and a user pay system as well. So I understand that I pay for it through my taxes. Unfortunately I am not the supreme ruler of Canada.

And you can't go to the doctor for sniffles, it takes two weeks to a month to even get an appointment to go in.

What I am saying is this: your senators and President Asshat have no right to drag our system into your health care bill argument. This isn't about us, its about you.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 748187



That's more like it...sounds like you're against socialized medicine after all. I guess I did misread your post...somewhat. But I don't see 'anything good' about your health care system.

President Asshat...that's awesome!

1rof1

Last Edited by TurnOffYourTV on 08/17/2009 01:10 AM
KILL YOUR TV NOW! IT IS HYPNOTIZING AND BRAINWASHING YOU! TURN IT OFF FOR GOOD!
Anonymous Coward
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08/17/2009 01:21 AM
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Re: Canada's top doctor: Health care system 'imploding'...
We also have an extreme shortage of doctors which doesn't help.

We know our system needs work. If it were me running the show, I would want lower taxes and a user pay system as well.




Did you read my full post? I don't want to get into a pissing match with all of you. I won't win anyway.

And if you didn't intend to slag Canada why did you base your post on that medical report?

I know our system is broken. I know our doctors go elsewhere because of salary caps. They go to the U.S.

I repeat: if it were me I'd like lower taxes and a user pay system as well. So I understand that I pay for it through my taxes. Unfortunately I am not the supreme ruler of Canada.

And you can't go to the doctor for sniffles, it takes two weeks to a month to even get an appointment to go in.

What I am saying is this: your senators and President Asshat have no right to drag our system into your health care bill argument. This isn't about us, its about you.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 748187

laugh
Anonymous Coward
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08/17/2009 01:40 AM
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Re: Canada's top doctor: Health care system 'imploding'...
Dr. Anne Doig says patients are getting less than optimal care and she adds that physicians from across the country - who will gather in Saskatoon on Sunday for their annual meeting - recognize that changes must be made

Gee I though govt. run healthcare was a good thing
 Quoting: mathetes

That is the gayest avatar ever.i hope it's not you.
Anonymous Coward
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08/17/2009 01:42 AM
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Re: Canada's top doctor: Health care system 'imploding'...
We also have an extreme shortage of doctors which doesn't help.

We know our system needs work. If it were me running the show, I would want lower taxes and a user pay system as well.




Did you read my full post? I don't want to get into a pissing match with all of you. I won't win anyway.

And if you didn't intend to slag Canada why did you base your post on that medical report?

I know our system is broken. I know our doctors go elsewhere because of salary caps. They go to the U.S.

I repeat: if it were me I'd like lower taxes and a user pay system as well. So I understand that I pay for it through my taxes. Unfortunately I am not the supreme ruler of Canada.

And you can't go to the doctor for sniffles, it takes two weeks to a month to even get an appointment to go in.

What I am saying is this: your senators and President Asshat have no right to drag our system into your health care bill argument. This isn't about us, its about you.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 748187

I can phone the doctors office tomorrow morning and get in later that afternoon to look at the color of the snot coming out of my nose right here in Saskatchewan.
SEADOG
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08/17/2009 01:49 AM
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Re: Canada's top doctor: Health care system 'imploding'...
There are both demographic and technical components to this issue. People are living a lot longer. This is due to technological advances that are very expensive.There are a lot of old people.I have had the benifit of very good, and cheap medical care.

The health care system is imploding because we have too many baby boomers that are costing the system millions per capita to keep them alive a few months longer. So, for the benefit of those over 80, we are going to sacrifice health care for those under 20? You call that rationing? You betcha!

My dad is at the doctor at least twice a week, It is his life now. Any idea what that costs? He's in relatively good health, but they are always suggesting some test or another.

Socialized medicine or not. You cannot spend 100 times the fees you have paid, in the last years of your life. OK, in the US, you can spend every penny you ever paid. How is that better?

Fucking hip replacements for 89 year old men. Come on......

As life extension becomes more feasible, the question has to be asked...how much??

Seems to me that that effort could be better extended at the lower levels. Not to a generation that has led a spoiled life, and spent their children's and grandchildren's money on their indulgences.

You can't have it all for nothing. But in the US, if you have nothing, you get same.
Anonymous Coward
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08/17/2009 01:50 AM
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Re: Canada's top doctor: Health care system 'imploding'...
I can phone the doctors office tomorrow morning and get in later that afternoon to look at the color of the snot coming out of my nose right here in Saskatchewan.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 555582


Well goody for you. I'm glad all the extra taxes I pay in Ontario that get shipped out west to you guys in the name of equalization payments do something.

Your taxes are lower than mine second asshat of the post. Piss off.
Anonymous Coward
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08/17/2009 01:58 AM
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Re: Canada's top doctor: Health care system 'imploding'...
I can phone the doctors office tomorrow morning and get in later that afternoon to look at the color of the snot coming out of my nose right here in Saskatchewan.


Well goody for you. I'm glad all the extra taxes I pay in Ontario that get shipped out west to you guys in the name of equalization payments do something.

Your taxes are lower than mine second asshat of the post. Piss off.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 748187



If it makes you feel better Alberta sends more money than anyone into equalization payments, and you cant get a family doctor at all in Calgary
Anonymous Coward
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08/17/2009 02:06 AM
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Re: Canada's top doctor: Health care system 'imploding'...
If it makes you feel better Alberta sends more money than anyone into equalization payments, and you cant get a family doctor at all in Calgary
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 598350


Well, I guess, if anything we are definitely showing the Americans how happy we are up here with socialized medicine. NOT!

Anyway, I thought Alberta was a partial user pay system? The only lucky buggers in Canada to at least get something out of the shithole system we have.
Anonymous Coward
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08/17/2009 02:08 AM
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Re: Canada's top doctor: Health care system 'imploding'...
I can phone the doctors office tomorrow morning and get in later that afternoon to look at the color of the snot coming out of my nose right here in Saskatchewan.


Well goody for you. I'm glad all the extra taxes I pay in Ontario that get shipped out west to you guys in the name of equalization payments do something.

Your taxes are lower than mine second asshat of the post. Piss off.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 748187


In actual fact,Provincal income taxes in Sask. are higher than in Ont.

Saskatchewan
11% on the first $40,113 of taxable income, +
13% on the next $74,497, +
15% on the amount over $114,610


Ontario
6.05% on the first $36,848 of taxable income, +
9.15% on the next $36,850, +
11.16% on the amount over $73,698

Good news eh?
the dude
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08/17/2009 02:12 AM
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Re: Canada's top doctor: Health care system 'imploding'...
Well, when the large hadron collider crapped out, they had to have a plan b.
Anonymous Coward
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08/17/2009 02:17 AM
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Re: Canada's top doctor: Health care system 'imploding'...
In actual fact,Provincal income taxes in Sask. are higher than in Ont.

Saskatchewan
11% on the first $40,113 of taxable income, +
13% on the next $74,497, +
15% on the amount over $114,610


Ontario
6.05% on the first $36,848 of taxable income, +
9.15% on the next $36,850, +
11.16% on the amount over $73,698

Good news eh?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 731648


It looks better at the lower end of the tax scale for sure. Where I am on the scale, not so much.
The Commentator

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08/17/2009 02:28 AM
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Re: Canada's top doctor: Health care system 'imploding'...
I'm Canadian, and while I understand that Americans do not want a medical system like ours we do a couple of good points you should consider.

If I am sick or injured I can go to any clinic, doctors office or emergency room for treatment. I don't have to worry about paying for it.

Our health standards are also one of the highest in the world, and we also live longer.

Yes, there is a downside. Service is slow and sometimes waiting time for special services is beyond disgustingly long. It's true that some people die before they can get treated.

We also have an extreme shortage of doctors which doesn't help.

We know our system needs work. If it were me running the show, I would want lower taxes and a user pay system as well.

However, I don't understand why in your battle over the new health care bill you need to keep dragging Canada's name through the mud. It's rather unneighborly, hmmm?
 Quoting: lilmisscantbewrong


The taxes you pay paid for your health care, whether you used it or not. You don't have "free" health care, you have prepaid heath care, a quite different animal, and even that has some pretty terrible holes in it.
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