USA Buys Russia’s Su-27 Jets From Ukraine to Find Out Why F-15 Is So Bad

The F-22 will change everything.
Ah wait the Russians have the vector thrust Su-35 ready since awhile ...

Kinda like the AK-47 still kicking the shit out of the M-16/AR-15

HAs an F-15 ever been shot down in air combat?

How'd it do against the F18-E/F ?

So far there were always no real foes so far ...

As far as I recall the Indian Air Force had exercises with US F-16, they lost to ninety percent either, Indians flying Su-30 and modernized MIG 29, dunno about F-18 tho ...

Edit:
No that were F-15 too:
[link to www.houseoffusion.com]

Last Edited by FreeFlow on 07/20/2009 04:58 PM

Those Israeli F-15s have never seen any combat?

Against Gazan children and women yes.

Not against equal foes like Su-27 MIG29 or Su-30 ...

Last Edited by FreeFlow on 07/20/2009 05:02 PM

Half the F-15's air to air kills are by Israeli pilots.

Against what planes?

The gazan women and children with bombs strapped to them by the nut job islamo husbands attempting to blow up any and everyone they can.

Why, are you here to abuse this thread for your pro nazio poopaganda also?

RESULTS OF AIR EXCERSICE WITH INDIA A "WAKE-UP CALL" FOR US AIR FORCE: GENERAL WASHINGTON (AFP) Jun 23, 2004

The US Air Force got a "wake-up call" in air-to-air training exercises with India earlier this year that showed the United States can no longer take air superiority for granted in a conflict, a top US general said Wednesday. A study of the "Cope India" air exercise, conducted by the US and Indian air forces in Gwalior, India last February, is secret, said General Hal Hornburg, head of the air force's Air Combat Command.

"But we have to learn a lot of things from that," he told defense reporters here. "We have to learn if we want air superiority it doesn't come cheap and it's not automatic."

The Russian-made SU-30s are reported to have bested the F-15s in a majority of their engagements, much to the surprise of the organizers.

It was the first time the two top-of-the-line US and Russian-made fighters have flown against each other in an exercise, an air force spokeswoman said.

It pitted F-15Cs from the air force's 3rd Wing out of Elmendorf Air Force Base in Alaska against a variety of Indian fighters, not just the SU-30s. They included Russian-built MiG-21s, MiG-29s and French-made Mirage 2000s.

Although the US fighters flew with certain restrictions that handicapped their effectiveness, the performance of the Indian fighters exceeded expectations.

"In general, we may have learned some things that suggest we may not be as far ahead of the rest of the world as we once thought we were," Hornburg said.

He said the results of the exercise showed the need for the F/A-22 Raptor and the Joint Strike Fighter (JSF). Both aircraft are stealthier than the F-15, but the F/A-18 also has greater range and speed than the air force's existing fighters.

The air force has been battling the perception that the costly new fighters are a luxury at a time when the United States has dominance in the air.

"I thought it was a wake-up call for some things that we've been talking about before, and it provided validation," Hornburg said.

The trade journal Aviation Week and Space Technology reported last month that the exercises showed the SU-30s had a clear advantage over the F-15C in a long-range fight.

The US and Indian aircraft were seeing each other at the same time with their radars but the SU-30 pilots were able to simulate-fire their Russian-made AA-10 "fire-and-forget" Alamo missiles first, the weekly said.

Experts say the SU-30 has a more advanced radar than the F-15C.

Hornburg said the F-15Cs that took part in "Cope India" were not equipped with the latest US active electronically scanned array radar.

"We are going to put new radars, as much as we can afford, in the F-16s and the F-15Es, and my prediction is we will have to do for the F-15C as well in due course," the general said.

The exercise appears to hold lessons for the air force in east Asia, where China is acquiring SU-27 and SU-30 fighters and AA-12 air-to-air missiles.

"I see air forces across the spectrum and across the world becoming better and better as each year passes," Hornburg said.

"China is very formidable. It is a huge, collossal nation, and they are very technologically adept. Do I worry about the Chinese? I would say I worry about anyone who could be a possible threat, to include them and many others," he said." --------

I've been saying this on other forums for a while now. When have US fighters been pitted against similar generation fighters in an engagement recently? At no point in time really. ONe can't consider either of the Iraq wars.

The Russian made aircraft are excellent, they just lack ease of use in the cockpit and can quickly overwhelm their pilots in an engagement. But in terms of getting weapons on target, they're great platforms.

I don't think the US has dominance in the air anymore, and that it hasn't for quite some time.

The article makes no mention of the Eurofighter ( [link to www.eurofighter.com] which bests the F15 in every aspect.
It's anyone's guess what is to become of the F22 Air Dominance Fighter after we see what happened to the Comanche, but I think that the USAF needs something like that. I also read that they had disbanded or severely reduced the operations of the Top Gun schools that taught close-in dogfighting, arguing (just as they argued with the Comanche) that such fighting isn't necessary in modern engagements, since the US aircraft will maintain air superiority by attacking Beyond Visual Range, and never have to get in close and certainly never have to use guns.

The Western world can depend on NATO to protect its liberty to some extent, but if a modern country suddenly decides to flex it's muscle we will undoubtedly need the strength of the US, and it doesn't look to be a sure thing in the skies anymore. Tactical nukes or dropping a full sized bomb may not always be possible, and a conventional engagement may have to be fought.

North Korea, India,Pakistan, China, one of the Russian break-away states? -Gel

Last Edited by FreeFlow on 07/20/2009 05:11 PM

As you can see, i am simply explaing the statistics of the F-15. Which has never been shot down in any theatre of war including your diluted, islamo-satan loving nut job examples.

Israel will soon have completed the building of the F-22 as well! In secret of course! Thank goodness Bush gave Israel everything they need to build them for themselves!

not saying i have the money to buy either but i would have thought the commie su27 be a bit more cheaper than the f 15

It is.

TR3B's!

So India and Russia belong to this, go figure!
Bring me examples where an F-15 shot down either an Su-27 or a MIG -29 if you can ...

Last Edited by FreeFlow on 07/20/2009 05:19 PM

ja but only 30%
i thought the f 15 was packed full of the latest toys from the usa and china and the su 27 as high tech as a junker

I heard the Germans were extremely impressed by the MIG-29 they got from the Eastern part through the reunion, it was a political decision to phase them out of using them not one of quality.

the f 15 is a fucking 30 + year old design , shoulda been replaced completely in the 90's

Why are you there to use a thread with your anti Israeli propaganda?

The F-15 has quite a decent kill record against MiG-29's if I recall correctly.

The AC was clearly baiting into that direction, he was the one who first mentioned Israel in case you overlooked this.

Why are you coming here to abuse this thread for your agenda too?

Last Edited by FreeFlow on 07/20/2009 05:28 PM

Examples please!

Iraq/Kosovo

A dozen or so Fulcrums downed by F-15's.

Bwahahaha!

You obviously don't know or forgot that F-15s shot down at least 3 MiG-29s during the 1999 war in Yugoslavia.

it was was it not by the f16 as people complained it was like an american woman over weight and slow

Four Serbian MIG-29s were killed that's correct, I am not sure if some of these were ground kills tho ...

The Su-27 is much better anyway and that's the actual topic here not the MIG-29, yeah it was me who got distracted and mentioned the MIG, I know. ...

Last Edited by FreeFlow on 07/20/2009 05:42 PM