*** VATICAN: Shroud Of Turin Was Hidden By Knights Templar:

i just had a wet fart in my white underwear, and I swear, the image it left looks very " Turinish' in nature...

after 2000 odd years of torture rape murder and wealth accumulation. its a wonder anyone believes anything the vaticon says about anything.

justin fulton dds

the guillable never learn...they only listen to what they are told...


I trust the vatican about as much as i trust radical islmaists or radical zionists...

and thats

ZERO TRUST

Of the 13th

so the reason why the templars had so much sudden might over the vatican, was because they had that linen cloth with the image of jesus on it ?

yeah right.

id raise the bullshit flag if i knew how.

I live in Turin. I saw "that linen cloth with the image of jesus on it". It's impressive. if you don't believe in God, after you seeing that, YOU BELIEVE!!

The Turin Shroud was a forgery. This is from the book "The Templars Revelation, Secret Guardians Of The True Identity Of Christ".

It was not, however, either Leonardo’s philosophy (whether overt or covert) or his art which first attracted both of us to him. It was his most paradoxical work, one that is both incredibly famous and at the same time least known, which drew us into our intensive Leonardo research. As described in detail in our last book, we discovered that it was the Maestro who had faked the Turin Shroud, which had long been believed to have been miraculously imprinted with Jesus' image at the time of his death. In 1988, carbon dating tests proved it to all but a handful of desperate believers to be an artefact of late medieval or early
Renaissance times, but to us it remained a truly remarkable image—to say the least. Uppermost in our minds was the question of the identity of the hoaxer, for whoever had created this amazing ‘relic’ had to be a genius.

The Turin Shroud, as all the literature—both for and against its authenticity—recognizes, behaves like a
photograph. It exhibits a curious ‘negative effect’, which means that it looks like a vague scorchmark to the naked eye but can be seen in fine detail in photographic negative. Because no known painting or brassrubbing behaves in this way, the negative effect has been taken by the ‘Shroudies’ (believers that it is truly the Shroud of Jesus) to be proof of the miraculous qualities of the image. However, we discovered that the image on the Turin Shroud behaves like a photographbecause that is precisely what it is.

Incredible though it may seem at first, the Turin Shroud is a photograph. We, together with Keith Prince,
reconstructed what we believed the original technique to be and in doing so became the first people ever to replicate all the hitherto unexplained characteristics of the Turin Shroud3. And, despite the Shroudies' claims that it was impossible, we did so using extremely basic equipment. We used a camera obscura (a pinhole camera), chemically coated cloth, treated with materials readily available in the fifteenth century, and large doses of light. However, the subject of our experimental photograph was a plaster bust of a girl, which was disappointingly lightyears away in status from the original model. For although the face on the
Shroud was not, as had been widely claimed, that of Jesus, it was in fact the face of the hoaxer himself. In brief,the Turin Shroud is, among many other things, a five-hundred-year-old photograph of none other than Leonardo da Vinci.

Despite some curious claims to the contrary4, this cannot have been the work of a pious Christian believer. The Turin Shroud, seen in photographic negative, apparently shows the broken and bleeding body of Jesus. It must be remembered that this is no ordinary blood, for to Christians it is not only literally divine: it is also the vehicle through which the world can be redeemed. To our minds, one simply cannot fake that blood and be considered a believer—nor could one have even the least respect for the person of Jesus and
replace his image with that of oneself. Leonardo did both of these things, with meticulous care and even, one suspects, a certain relish. Of course he knew that, as the supposed image of Jesus—for no-one would realize it was the Florentine artist himself5—the Shroud would be prayed over by a sizeable number of pilgrims even during his own lifetime. For all we know he actually hovered in the shadows and watched them do it—it would have been in keeping with what we know of his character. But did he also guess just how many pilgrims would be crossing themselves in front of his image over the centuries? Did he imagine
that one day intelligent people would actually be converted to Catholicism simply by looking into that beautiful, tortured face? And could he possibly have foreseen that the West’s cultural image of what Jesus looked like would come largely from the image on the Turin Shroud? Did he realize that one day millions of people the world over would be worshipping the image of a fifteenth-century homosexual heretic in the place of their beloved God, thatLeonardo da Vinci was literally to become the image of Jesus Christ ?
The Shroud was, we believe,very nearly the most outrageous—and successful—joke ever played on history. But, although it has fooled millions, it is more than a hymn to the art of the tasteless hoax. We believe that Leonardo used the opportunity to create the ultimate Christian relic as a vehicle for two things: an innovative technique and an encoded heretical belief. The technique of primitive photography was—as events were to show6—highly dangerous to make public in that paranoid and superstitious era. But it no doubt amused Leonardo to make sure that this prototype was looked after by the very priests he despised. Of course it could be that this ironic priestly guardianship was purely coincidental, merely a fateful twist in an already remarkable story, but to us it smacks of Leonardo’s passion for total control, which can be seen here to reach far beyond the grave.

The Turin Shroud, fake and work of genius though it is, also carries certain symbols that underline Leonardo’s own particular obsessions, as seen in his other, more generally accepted, works. For example, there is at the base of Shroudman’s neck a distinct demarcation line. When the image as a whole is turned into a ‘contour map’, using the most sophisticated computer technology, we can see that the line marks the lower end of the head image at the front, while there is, as it, were a sea of unimaged, flat darkness
immediately under it until the image begins again at the upper chest7. We believe there are two reasons for this. One is purely practical, for the front image is a omposite, the body being that of a genuinely crucified man and the face being Leonardo’s own, so that line perhaps of necessity indicates the ‘join’ of the two images. However, this hoaxer was no mean workman, and it would have been relatively easy to obscure or fudge that tell-tale demarcation line. But what if Leonardo, in fact, actually had no desire to get rid of it? What if he left it there deliberately in order to make a point ‘for those with eyes to see’?

What possible heresy can the Turin Shroud carry, even in code? Surely there is a limit to the symbols one can hide in a simple, stark image of a naked crucified man—and one that has been analyzed by many top scientists using state-of-the-art equipment? While we will be returning to this theme in due course, let us merely hint for now that these questions may be answered by looking afresh at two main aspects of the image. The first concerns the abundance of blood which appears to be running freshly down Jesus'
arms—and which may appear, superficially, to contradict the symbolic lack of wine on the table of the Last Supper, but which in fact reinforces that particular point. The second concerns the obvious demarcation line between head and body, as if Leonardo were drawing our attention to a beheading…As far as we know, Jesus was not beheaded and the image is a composite, so we are being asked to consider the images of two separate characters who were nevertheless closely linked in some way. But even so, why should
someone who was beheaded be set ‘over’ one who was crucified? As will be seen, this clue of the severed head on the Turin Shroud is merely a reinforcement of symbols in
many of Leonardo’s other works. We have noted how the anomalous young woman, ‘M’, in his Last Supper, is apparently being menaced by a hand slicing across her delicate neck, and how Jesus himself is being threatened by an upright finger thrust into his face, apparently as a warning—or perhaps a reminder, or both. In Leonardo’s works this upright forefinger is always, in every case, a direct reference to John the Baptist.

Well Duh.

if you would to think so...what kind of proves do you have of god's existence?

The mended corner of the Shroud of Turin was the cause of the carbon 14 dating failure in 1988.

This site has a lot of information

[link to www.shroudofturin4journalists.com]

from your site:
"Moreover, this article, by Raymond N. Rogers, a well-published chemist, and a Fellow of the Los Alamos National Laboratory, explained why the cloth was much older. It was at least twice as old as the radiocarbon date, and possibly 2000 years old."

..and from this site:

[link to shroudofturin.wordpress.com]


Some people still believe that Turin’s shroud is a proof of Jesus’s sacrifice for the mankind. The others do not.

I believe that it doesn’t matter whether the shroud is actual or not. Even if it’s not real, if it can bring some kindness and peace to today’s human race, then there is no harm believing in it. If it can bring out goodness in today’s world, then there is no harm worshipping it. The power of belief and faith can do wonders. After all, isn’t this what religion is all about?

I didn't realize that there are 3D images on the shroud as well.

This site has photos using a NASA VP-8 Image Analyzer.

[link to player2000gi.exofire.net]

the link

[link to player2000gi.exofire.net]

the link won't work.

this is the complete link it need the /turin.htm

player2000gi.exofire.net/turin.htm

If you can't get that link to work, here's another on the 3D terrain mapping of the shroud.

[link to www.factsplusfacts.com]

the links won't pick of the entire address on this thread.

www.factsplusfacts.com/theed.htm

Like the Vatican would tell you the truth about anything...

you link Does work!! Very fine.

i'm anty-chlerical! the pope has nothing to do with this!!
i live in italy and only the older (80 years old) believe in the churh. Normal people don't go in church never, only at the weddings, funeral, etc.

I dont think the Templars were exactly "friends" of the church, so i dont see why anyone doubt the info as complete lies.
Seems that the church has had to come clean here, just maybe.

templars seem like they were just constantly being attacked by all sides.

when the vatican makes a disclosure, one has to ask, why? and why now?

I have long been fascinated with the mystery of the Shroud of Turin. By now, many have heard of this burial shroud which bears the imprint of the face and body of a dead man who has been brutally beaten and whose wounds strongly suggest he died from crucifixion. For centuries, it has been carefully preserved by the church authorities, for the faithful are convinced that the image imprinted on this piece of cloth is indeed that of the one known as Christ, the world's savior.

No one knows the actual origins of the shroud, nor its history in the first centuries after the crucifixion. Its authenticity has been a question of serious debate for many years. It has been subjected to many, many tests, and various theories have been put forth to dispute the claims of the believers.

The question of its actual date of origin seemed to be resolved definitively two years ago, when a piece of the material was subjected to carbon dating, and the results indicated it was cloth from the middle ages.

Now, according to a PBS documentary I watched last night, new evidence has emerged which calls all into question once more. And some of this new evidence presents mysteries themselves as intriguing as the original question of identity.

When the results of the carbon dating were announced, one of the researchers, a renowned scientist from a major British university, revealed the "irrefutable" conclusions with evident gratification, as if once again science had triumphed over faith and superstition. He pointed out that not every one would be convinced, and noted that some still insisted that the earth was flat.

It was a woman, however, one who relied not on technology but a traditional woman's craft, who called these results into question. She was a seamstress brought in to mend some of the damaged spots on the cloth. In making her repairs, she discovered something no one had noticed previously. The shroud was sewn together with a particular type of stitching which was also found at Massada, but which is unknown outside a time frame of a few decades around the time of Jesus' death. Most important, it is never found in stitching from the middle ages.

In fact, the sample subjected to the carbon dating may have led to false results, since it was a corner which was sometimes attached to a backing cloth for public display of the actual shroud.

Now, even more puzzling is this discovery: the image is quite dim to the naked eye, but under enhanced light it shows up almost as if it were an x-ray of the body. That is, it reveals not merely the surface features but certain elements beneath the surface--such as the thumb which lies beneath the folded hands. No camera could of itself discern such hidden aspects. No transfer of body fluids such as blood or sweat could capture them. One commentator (obviously convinced of the authenticity of the relic), even asserted that the shroud actually bears the imprint of these subsurface features because they were transferred during the ascension itself--the shroud, in effect, passed through the body of the rising spirit.

[link to kundalinisplendor.blogspot.com]


Turin shroud 'older than thought'
Shroud of Turin, Nasa

Tests in 1988 concluded the cloth was a medieval "hoax"
The Shroud of Turin is much older than suggested by radiocarbon dating carried out in the 1980s, according to a new study in a peer-reviewed journal.

A research paper published in Thermochimica Acta suggests the shroud is between 1,300 and 3,000 years old.

The author dismisses 1988 carbon-14 dating tests which concluded that the linen sheet was a medieval fake.

The shroud, which bears the faint image of a blood-covered man, is believed by some to be Christ's burial cloth.


The radiocarbon sample has completely different chemical properties than the main part of the shroud relic
Raymond Rogers
Raymond Rogers says his research and chemical tests show the material used in the 1988 radiocarbon analysis was cut from a medieval patch woven into the shroud to repair fire damage.

It was this material that was responsible for an invalid date being assigned to the original shroud cloth, he argues.

"The radiocarbon sample has completely different chemical properties than the main part of the shroud relic," said Mr Rogers, who is a retired chemist from Los Alamos National Laboratory in New Mexico, US.

Fire damage

He says he was originally dubious of untested claims that the 1988 sample was taken from a re-weave.

"It was embarrassing to have to agree with them," Mr Rogers told the BBC News website.

The 4m-long linen sheet was damaged in several fires since its existence was first recorded in France in 1357, including a church blaze in 1532.

It is said to have been restored by nuns who patched the holes and stitched the shroud to a reinforcing material known as the Holland cloth.

"[The radiocarbon sample] has obvious painting medium, a dye and a mordant that doesn't show anywhere else," Mr Rogers explained.

Shroud of Turin, AP
The shroud first surfaced in France in 1357
"This stuff was manipulated - it was coloured on purpose."

In the study, he analysed and compared the sample used in the 1988 tests with other samples from the famous cloth.

In addition to the discovery of dye, microchemical tests - which use tiny quantities of materials - provided a way to date the shroud.

These tests revealed the presence of a chemical called vanillin in the radiocarbon sample and in the Holland cloth, but not the rest of the shroud.

Vanillin is produced by the thermal decomposition of lignin, a chemical compound found in plant material such as flax. Levels of vanillin in material such as linen fall over time.

'Older date'

"The fact that vanillin cannot be detected in the lignin on shroud fibres, Dead Sea scrolls linen and other very old linens indicates that the shroud is quite old," Mr Rogers writes.

"A determination of the kinetics of vanillin loss suggests the shroud is between 1,300 and 3,000 years old."

[link to news.bbc.co.uk]

On August 15, 944 AD, a cloth known as the Cloth of Edessa, was forcibly transferred from the city of Edessa to Constantinople, the Byzantine capital. It had been in Edessa since at least the middle of the 6th century (544 AD) when it was found concealed behind some stones above one of the city gates. On that the historical record is clear.

What happened to the cloth of Edessa? Is it the Shroud of Turin?

In that year, in August, when the cloth arrived in Constantinople, Gregory Referendarius, the archdeacon of Hagia Sophia in Constantinople, described it as a full length image with bloodstains from a side wound. We know this from a recently discovered document in the Vatican Archives. The document is in ancient Greek (translated by Mark Guscin).

In Constantinople, the cloth was sometimes ceremoniously unfurled, raised up like a vertical banner, in a way that showed a full frontal picture of Jesus as though rising from a grave. In 1201, Nicholas Mesarites, the sacristan of the Pharos Chapel where the Image of Edessa was kept, described this ceremony in somewhat interesting terms:

Here He rises again and the sindon [Shroud] is the clear proof still smelling fragrant of perfumes, defying corruption because they wrapped the mysterious naked dead body from head to feet.

There is reason to believe that the Edessa Cloth, along with other priceless treasures, was taken from Constantinople in 1204 AD by French knights of the Fourth Crusades. About 1205, in a letter to Pope Innocent III, Theodore Ducas Anglelos wrote:

The Venetians partitioned the treasure of gold, silver and ivory, while the French did the same with the relics of saints and the most sacred of all, the linen in which our Lord Jesus Christ was wrapped after His death and before the resurrection.

We know that the sacred objects are preserved by their predators in Venice and France and in other places. In 1207, Nicholas d'Orrante, Abbott of Casole and the Papal Legate in Athens, wrote about relics taken from Constantinople by French knights. Referring specifically to burial cloths, he mentions seeing them "with our own eyes" in Athens.

But there are no known records between the time of the Crusades and 1357. That does not mean there are no records. There are just no known records that can directly link the Edessa Cloth and the Turin Cloth. Historians have two theories about this. One is that the cloth was in the hands of the Knight Templar and they kept that fact secret. The other theory, one that is gaining favor with some historians, is that the cloth was in Besancon during the years in question and that existing records and documents were destroyed during the excesses of the French Revolution.

[link to www.factsplusfacts.com]

John of Revelations fame had it in Edessa

find out where he died

Knights Templar had it

It Is Real.

I was researching the shroud once. There are some expert websites.
My interest was the actual hight of Jesus the shoud should give.

This shroud, and any other relics relating to Jesus and hidden by the Templars are all part of a scheme meant to be "the undoing of Christianity."

They all have to do with Holy Grail bloodlines and evil fables meant to re-crucify Christ.

Beware these false discoveries.

Horseradish..What same chemicals did they use that were abundant in the 15th century .This davinci fairy tale is getting old.

Mechthild Flury-Lemberg began to spin and weave wool shorn from the sheep on her family's post-World War II German farm at the tender age of 16, "for fun," she says. She never imagined that the hobby, which led to a career in textile conservation, would also eventually lead her to head the restoration of one of the most cherished and mysterious relics in Christendom -- the Shroud of Turin -- or that her examination would produce new evidence that the famed linen dates to the first century A.D., to the time of Christ.

Flury-Lemberg studied weaving at an academy in Hamburg, Germany, then earned degrees in the history of art from universities in Kiel and Munich. She then worked for three decades as head of the textile department of the Abegg Foundation in Riggisberg, Switzerland before she retired in 1994 (she came out of retirement for the restoration of the Shroud). During her tenure, she studied and restored a priceless collection of ancient cloths, including the 13th-century grave garments of St. Anthony of Padua and of King Rudolph I of Bohemia, plus 11th-century liturgical vestments, the Tunic of Christ at Treves, and the cowl of St. Francis of Assisi. Ancient textiles like the Shroud of Turin, which, according to belief (if not necessarily scientific evidence) dates to the first century A.D., are quite rare and generally badly preserved. "The textiles handed down to us are normally grave garments, found in burial sites," she said. "They were wrapped about a dead body and stayed in a chemical climate which forced their oxidation. We rarely find well-preserved linen or silk fabrics." The Shroud of Turin is so remarkably preserved, she says, because "this cloth was not kept in a tomb. The crucified man was only for some hours wrapped in that linen."

Other, even older textiles do exist, however, and Flury-Lemberg has worked on many. One of the most unusual was the 2,200-year-old 'liber linteus,' a linen book that had been cut into strips and used to wrap the mummy of a Roman girl. "When the mummy came to Zagreb in 1862, scientists discovered Etruscan characters on the bandages but could not decipher the text," Flury-Lemberg says. "In 1985 I was asked to reconstruct the linen from which the bandages were once taken." She pieced the strips into their original positions, which allowed the text to be deciphered -- and also provided linguists with about 60 percent of the Etruscan vocabulary known today. "It is the fascination of my profession to discover hidden information by staying and 'talking' with the object during conservation," she says. "The same is true for the Shroud of Turin."


Photo of Mechthild Flury-Lemberg at work on the Shroud

Mechthild Flury-Lemberg and her assistant work carefully and methodically to repair and stabilize the damaged fabric

Flury-Lemberg had originally been approached back in the early 1980s to try to date the Shroud by analyzing the structure of the cloth. She refused, "because," she says, "it is impossible to get a serious result dating a textile by textile analysis alone." In 1988, the keepers of the Shroud permitted radiocarbon dating of the relic -- with unanticipated results. The tests indicated that the cloth had been made sometime between 1260 and 1390 A.D., and thus was a medieval forgery rather than the actual burial shroud of Christ. And yet, when Flury-Lemberg finally did agree to head the restoration and conservation of the linen in the summer of 2002, the Shroud had a far different story to tell her. She first noticed that the entire cloth was crafted with a weave known as a three-to-one herringbone pattern. "This kind of weave was special in antiquity because it denoted an extraordinary quality," she says. (Less fine linens of the first century would have had a one-to-one herringbone pattern). That same pattern is present on a 12th century illustration that depicts Christ's funeral cloth, which, she says, is "extremely significant, because it shows that the painter was familiar with Christ's Shroud and that he recognized the indubitably exceptional nature of the weave of the cloth." Flury-Lemberg also discovered a peculiar stitching pattern in the seam of one long side of the Shroud, where a three-inch wide strip of the same original fabric was sewn onto a larger segment. The stitching pattern, which she says was the work of a professional, is surprisingly similar to the hem of a cloth found in the tombs of the Jewish fortress of Masada. The Masada cloth dates to between 40 B.C. and 73 A.D. The evidence, says Flury-Lemberg, is clear: "The linen cloth of the Shroud of Turin does not display any weaving or sewing techniques which would speak against its origin as a high quality product of the textile workers of the first century."

[link to www.pbs.org]

The Certain History
The first definite historical appearance of the Shroud comes in a document written in 1389, which describes a public exhibition of the Shroud in 1355 in Lirey, France, by French knight Geoffrey de Charny. That same year, the Shroud is first called a forgery -- a cunning painting -- by Bishop Pierre D'Arcis of Teachers Toolbox Troyes in a letter to the Pope. The cloth becomes the property of the House of Savoy, Italy's royal family, in 1453, and remains their legal possession until 1986 when it is bequeathed to Pope John Paul II and his successors upon the death of Umberto II of Savoy. Beginning in 1464, the cloth is housed in a special chapel in Chambery, in the French Alps. It was at the Chambery chapel that a fire, on December 4, 1532, damaged the Shroud, and some believe that event affected the 1988 radiocarbon dating of the material. In 1578 the relic is moved to Turin, Italy, and first became known as the Shroud of Turin. The move, says historian and Shroud expert Ian Wilson, "was partly because a Cardinal from Milan [Charles Borromeo] was going to visit the Shroud and was planning to take the journey on foot from Milan to Chambery, so they brought the Shroud to Turin to save him part of the journey." Apart from being moved into hiding during World War II, the Shroud has remained in Turin ever since.

Download Wallpaper The Uncertain History
Prior to 1389, the history of the Shroud is more nebulous. "You find cloths called 'the shroud' or 'a shroud,' being kept in different places," Wilson says. "There is a shroud referred to in Jerusalem, one in Constantinople in 1204, but there didn't seem to be a clear pattern of anything that could be built up into a history." Historical records dating back to at least the 6th century, however, refer to a cloth (not specifically a burial cloth) with an imprint of Jesus. "These references seem to center on one particular cloth which had been taken to Edessa [now in Eastern Turkey] back in the first century AD," Wilson says. According to legend, "it was instrumental in converting the king of that city, Abgar, to Christianity, shortly after the crucifixion." That cloth, too, dropped out of history, but apparently reappeared in the 6th century, when it was discovered hidden within the walls of the city gates. "It was immediately hailed as being a miraculously imprinted likeness of Jesus and it became known as the Cloth of Edessa," Wilson says. "It was not called a shroud, but it became very celebrated. Artists made their likenesses of Jesus from it."


This illustration shows the Shroud being exhibited to the public and held up by the hands of priests

This illustration serves as an early example of the public exhibition of the Shroud

In 944, the Edessa Cloth was removed from the city by the armies of Emperor Romanus I of Constantinople. "He had a collection of relics of Jesus, things like the nails from the cross," Wilson says. "He wanted this cloth to join them," Wilson says. The Edessa Cloth remained in Constantinople until 1204, when Crusaders sacked the city. "Although a crusader describes seeing a cloth with a figure of Jesus on it, he reports that after the city was captured, neither the Greeks nor the French crusaders knew what happened to it." There is no record of the Edessa Cloth after that point -- or, indeed, of any cloth imprinted with the image of Christ -- until the cloth that would become known as the Shroud of Turin turns up in the possession of Geoffrey de Charny in the 1350s. Wilson believes that the Edessa Cloth and the Shroud of Turin are one and the same.

[link to www.pbs.org]

thank you