Question for The Vegans/Veggies

Thought id post this in here for the PeTA-tards.

[link to www.petakillsanimals.com]



And for the MEAT IS MURDER-Tards.

Two Simple Words Combine Harvester

You know the big machine that crushes all the mice, birds, voles and other small animals that live in wheat grain and soya fields.

i don't think it really takes much energy to not eat certain foods.

Im going to bump it till you love it, or some retard posts in this thread trying to argue the point and makes a fool of himself/herself.

Biblebashers will be cut down with a BS Sign, and Moral Crusaders will be laughed at like the retards they are.



Enjoy your ass kicking, im angry and on form tonight.

BRING IT ON!!

It would be possible to use your argument to justify doing nothing about anything - war, child cruelty, injustice... conspiracies?

In the end all you can do is look to your own conscience and hope that it will make some difference

There is a well known story regarding this matter, one version of which is given here:

[link to muttcats.com]

Once upon a time, there was a wise man who used to go to the ocean to do his writing. He had a habit of walking on the beach before he began his work.

One day, as he was walking along the shore, he looked down the beach and saw a human figure moving like a dancer. He smiled to himself at the thought of someone who would dance to the day, and so, he walked faster to catch up.

As he got closer, he noticed that the figure was that of a young man, and that what he was doing was not dancing at all. The young man was reaching down to the shore, picking up small objects, and throwing them into the ocean.

He came closer still and called out "Good morning! May I ask what it is that you are doing?"

The young man paused, looked up, and replied "Throwing starfish into the ocean."

"I must ask, then, why are you throwing starfish into the ocean?" asked the somewhat startled wise man.

To this, the young man replied, "The sun is up and the tide is going out. If I don't throw them in, they'll die."

Upon hearing this, the wise man commented, "But, young man, do you not realize that there are miles and miles of beach and there are starfish all along every mile? You can't possibly make a difference!"

At this, the young man bent down, picked up yet another starfish, and threw it into the ocean. As it met the water, he said, "It made a difference for that one."

Fine, you've found your 'retard' vegetarian, argue away.

You're absoltely right when you see we can't produce results within our lifetimes. I just couldn't live with going on eating meat, i find it disgusting. I don't mean to start the whole discussion anew here, just let one thing be said. There is no wrong or right. But we can decide what we'll do in the future, how we will act. I absolutely agree there is *a lot* not right in this world, but it's never ever a waste of time, to do something right, how little it may seem. And it's not insignificant at all. There are many animals I feel compassion for, all of them, while i find i'm having a hard time to uphold that same compassion for some specimens of the human race.

Not really, because they are inherantly human affairs, based on human social structure and our relationship to other members of our species.

Everybody knows animals are not our species, so to treat them as equally important is something that is pretty unlikely given the ethical question and need.

I dont think its impossible, but you have to admit, its certainly less likely that everybody will turn Veg/Vegan than it is for world peace.

If you can see that, im afraid you have not observed the human race and history much.

..but, but what about the seagulls that didn't get their breakfast that morning... poooor seagulls - someone took away their food.

But I guess they never understood the wisdom of the young mans actions.

Do PETA people swat bugs? Do 4-leggeds have more rights than 6-leggeds? What about RoachKittens?

I believe that there would have been a time, not really that long ago when people would have argued that slavery was good and natural and the God ordained way of doing things. At that time it would have been very difficult to foresee things ever changing and I'm sure there would have been people who argued as you do that it was not worth campaigning to change the status quo because it would never happen. Some people disagreed and eventually things changed.

It may be that as science continues to examine the differences and similarities between humans and other mammals that more people might become uncomfortable with the idea of eating meat. It may be that the world realises that if everyone is going to get fed then we cannot afford to raise animals because it is not a good use of scarce resources. It could just be that one day it is definitively shown that meat causes disease in those that eat it - I don't know what will happen, but I would not rule out any of these possibilities or a thousand others that I have not thought of that might lead to the majority becoming vegetarian.

You are right. It is easy to skip eating the rotting animal carcasses that are filled with additives and hormones.

Vegetarians have higher ethics than carcass-eaters.

Indeed, it all boils down to Choas Theory.

Mother Nature is a finely tuned 500 million year old process, a namby pamby bit of human moral and ethnical bad reasoning wont solve the problem.

If the exstantace of the human race results in the extinction of a million of species it doesnt matter, the same thing happened with dinosaurs, it will happen again.

Its all a big cycle, all we can do is live our own lives.

If somebody chooses not to eat meat, fine, i have no problem with that, i personally dont eat beef, pork or lamb myself as i find the treatment of animals in mechanized farming to be pretty appauling, however claiming moral high ground because of a lifestyle choice is childish and downright idiotic.

Im no better than anybody else, im just smart enough to know there are no ethical or moral values that give creedance to the idea that a meat free lifestyle is morally a better one.

If you really believe that, you are incredibly dense.

What makes you angry? Are you confused? Afraid you cant live up to your own ideals?

Pretty difficult to find any ethical or moral values that are inherent in nature anyway surely? Where do we find a natural moral code that says "do not kill your own species"? or "do not have sex with your children"? Those are not moral codes that are found in nature, we have invented them for ourselves but they are still good ethical guidelines and none the worse for being created by us rather than existing in some sort of natural order. How can you give credence to the idea that any moral stance is superior to another other than through custom and general acceptance?

So eating meat is like slavery now?

I fail to see how you arrived at that conclusion.

Through observation of the natural world it should become aparent that life feeds on life, no exceptions.

animal life feeds on plant life, plant life feeds on animal life, animal life feeds on animal life.

Plants and Animals are both living creatures, it is a human idea to judge animals as having more moral standing.

There is honestly no difference, both are alive, both are destoryed and broken down into chemical energy when consumed by another lifeform.

You fail to question the ethics of the treatment of the animals. Is eating meat unethical? I don't believe so. Is slaughtering animals inhumanely without a greater appreciation of their life ethical? Well, by the way they're treated at the slaughter houses I've seen, it's a hell fucking no.

Your argument of vegetables vs. animals is laughable, and it seems to me you are just spouting bullshit for attention.

Eating meat is only like slavery in as much as you are arguing that it cannot be changed and I disagree - the generally accept belief of today is the historical moral embarrassment of tomorrow. Values change and so much that is considered obvious is only a matter of tradition.

You have already argued that humans are different to other animals and thus we have a right to eat them, but here you argue that we are part of the great circle of life and therefore the same - which is it? Are we just another animal or are we different in some way?

Just because we can eat something, doesn't mean that we have to or should eat it. Why not eat giraffe, or cat, or gorilla? Meat eaters do put some fine distinctions between different animals, those they will eat and those they won't - all animals are not equal to a meat eater - why is that? Do you ever consider your own ethical or moral code - not the whether to eat meat code but the why don't I eat other primates code for instance? Where do those differences lie and where are the differences between other species and us? I don't think that your stance as a meat eater is as clear cut as you would like to think it is.

Slavery and Child fucking, whats next comparisons to hitler?

Whenever somebody professes a lack of belief in the idea of morality, somebody always raises the issue of murder, child sex and slavery.

And they then deduce that because i claim to have no moral code i must ergo support such horrible practices.

I claim not to profess if they are right or wrong, i have no concept, they are disgraceful to me and not of my interests, i do not know if they are good or bad, for i have no understanding of what it is to be good or bad.

Morality is subjective and circumstantial.

Im affraid the Onus is on you to prove the moral superiority of a meat free lifestyle, and you cant, because its not possible.

You remind of of The Architect from The Matrix. Words coming out of your mouth that you do not comprehend to simply put on a show.

You're clearly an attention depraved, pathetic person.

way to godwin your own thread.

I dont care.

Cruel maybe.

Nessesary, probably.

Right or wrong, i have no idea, how do you define right and wrong.

All i care about is my own survival, anything else is unimportant unless it makes my survival easier.

But what makes you right and meat eaters wrong?

What happens if people want to eat meat, and will never stop?

I know, sorry dude, somebody else was going to do it, so i beat them too it. slavery and sex with children was already raised in discussion, so i thought fuck it.

I have not accused you or any meat eater of any horrible practice other than meat eating. :)

I am merely attempting to demonstrate that there are no 'natural laws' as far as moral or ethical behaviours are concerned and that your attempt to discuss meat eating versus vegetarianism on the grounds of natural law are futile because they do not exist. Our laws and ethics are human inventions and as such are subject to change.

The moral superiority of not eating meat is that I do not take life. Can you find any moral superiority in the taking of life?

Did someone mention animals????

Chaos theory.

Directly you might not, but morally you have no idea of the indirect responsibility your choices have, like the issue i raised about combine harvesters.

Industrialized Mechanized farming practices, mean that animals are killed harvesting grains, wheats etc, when the tractors ploughs through the field and in turn kill and destorys 100s of animals in the process.

Im real scared of somebody with bible quotes in their signature.

I don't see a direct connection with the developments with chaotic systems but if you are happier with a qualified statement then I will say that:

The moral superiority is that I take less life than a meat eater.

It is a qualified statement but the relative moral stance is the same i.e. by nature of being a living creature I am inadvertantly responsible for the loss of life in other organisms, however I do not intentionally take any life.

So now, to be sure of the terms on which we are debating please state your moral position.