Global economy faces deep slowdown, warns central bankers' club | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 337472 United States 06/30/2008 01:28 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Matrix User ID: 457229 Australia 06/30/2008 01:50 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | "If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their money, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations(speculators/hedge funds/oil companies) that will grow up around them (around the banks/investment banks), will deprive(via bubble then bust bubble economic "cycles") the people of their property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered." ~ Thomas Jefferson, Letter 1802 to Secretary of the Treasury, Albert Gallatin ********************************************************** Well these bankers/speculators/oil barons are going to via these "cycles" cause sheople by their droves to get on their cycles and like little hamsters peddle their way to oblivion. |
Jdd
User ID: 347452 Canada 06/30/2008 02:33 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Here's an interesting report: The Real Estate Nightmare Found in Las Vegas [link to blog.metro-real-estate.com] "Overview of a real-estate conference just held in Las Vegas. Some very sobering takeaway notes: In no particular order here is a synopsis of this year's conference: 1. No one has any idea when we will reach a bottom simply because no one knows how many classes of real estate are going down. The most optimistic guess was 2010 but most wouldn't even hazard a guess. Some of the grey hairs think 5 or 6 years. 2. The problems in the residential side are quickly spilling over to the commercial real estate market. 3. The spread between bid and asked prices is as large as the Grand Canyon. Banks and particularly the community banks can't afford to take the write-downs the bid price implies. 4. Aside from say multi-family and really solid income producing properties (producing solid verifiable income now, not projected income) there is no debt available. There is lots of equity looking for 20% and up returns. Since these will have to be largely unleveraged, the asset price required to deliver the return is abysmally low. Further driving down implied valuations is the fact that the equity is Wall Street money with 3 to 5 year time horizons. No one thought that was achievable (with the exception of the Wall Street boys in the audience, of course). 5. The complicated capital stacks of the past are history. Simplicity is in and you can kiss non-recourse goodbye. 6. Builder lots are selling for improvement cost or less. Basically, the land is free. There is no debt available and the volume of transactions is approaching zero. 7. Small and mid-level banks are in trouble. So are the big boys but the govies will take care of them? Several of the deal guys said that banks they contacted three months ago about buying assets are all of a sudden calling back. Three months ago they said everything was fine. The idea du jour is to buy the bank to get the bank's real estate. Sounds screwy to me but I'll write some more about this one tomorrow. 8. Most think this is a credit driven problem, not a supply problem which was the case in 1991. They think the crunch is really going to start hitting when commercial loans mature and need refinancing. Unlike 1991 there is lots of equity on the sidelines which is a good thing. The bad difference from 1991 is that we got into this mess with a good economy not a recession. So if the economy goes south it could get real rough. 9. Banks have been rewriting their loans and creating new interest reserves to keep the Zombies alive. The regulators have said full stop. 10. The big buzz word is “value added” as in look at my Excel spread sheet and how it shows us increasing rents and occupancy and how much money we will make with which to pay you back. Most of the fund providers aren't buying. 11. Underwriting is getting tougher and tougher. As one participant said,... "if you have financing take it and close the deal NOW." 12. Mezzanine is going to be important as the level of available senior debt in the capital stack shrinks. Most Mezz lenders now only going up to 85%. They are also adjusting any appraisals by five to ten percent. 13. Lot prices in the hardest hit areas are back to 2000 to 2001 levels. 14. There is an absolute disconnect on valuations among buyers, sellers, senior debt, mezzanine and equity. Thus no deals are coming together. 15. Appraisals are good for no more than a month as values are deteriorating so rapidly. Some felt that the appraisers were only picking up sales comps and missing the comps that could be derived from note sales. Basically, no one trusts appraisals. 16. The Indy Mac performing loan sale that was reported to have been done at about 60% of asking price has fallen apart. Most of the bids at the 60% level were withdrawn after further due diligence. The actual prices the stuff went for is between 20% and 45%. By the way Indy Mac had current appraisals supporting their asking price. 17. The Wall Street Wizards are proving to be particularly inept at working out real estate problems. Essentially, they don't know anything about operating real estate. On top of that, many of the banks don't have expertise so there seem to be a lot of bad decisions going down (much more about this later). 18. Things are going downhill so fast that deals that were struck 3 months ago need to be restructured. 19. Finally, the conference concluded with a representative from the Fed and one from the Office of Thrift Supervision. They dodged, weaved and evaded the hard issues. My take, reading between the lines, is that they are scared to death. Again, I will expand on this in the next couple of days." |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 214086 United States 06/30/2008 08:45 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Jomama
User ID: 446229 Germany 06/30/2008 08:59 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Prior to central banking and credit-based capital markets, commercial markets were not dependent on credit. They were free markets, unaffected by the spigots of credit and debt. Free markets operate without the artificial stimulation of credit-based money; free markets respond to real needs and real demands, not to the incessant need of bankers to indebt society in their drive to enrich themselves - a drive that produces individual profits in the short run and collective economic ruin later. ... The solutions being proposed by central bankers increasingly resemble those of retreating armies - feints instead of advances, bold proclamations betrayed by flaccid follow-through, all obviously concocted on the fly in the face of unexpected crises. The central bankers’ limited arsenal of rate cuts. is clearly inadequate regarding the rapidly evaporating liquidity of credit markets. ... Today’s so-called free markets are not free at all. Today’s markets, especially in the US, are being manipulated in order to keep them afloat. ... There is much debate as to how this will all end. While the particulars are unknowable, the end is not. The collapse of paper-based paper currencies and speculative credit markets is certain. See it all: [link to www.kitco.com] to herd or not to herd [link to djomama.blogspot.com] |
Circuit Breaker
User ID: 447169 United States 06/30/2008 09:13 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | This really isn't a surprise. The collapse of the housing market started it, especially here in the U.S. But now it's expanding because of the rising cost of oil. People are now using their money to buy gas and pay for food instead of buying products made in other countries. In turn, demand for those products has dropped significantly and these foreign companies are now faced with laying off their employees. As the economy in the U.S. continues to decline, so to will the economies in other countries. For instance, Ford is closing several plants and halting or scaling back on production of trucks. Why? Because no one is buying them due to the high cost of fuel. And where do the parts for these trucks come from? Other countries, most notably Mexico. Thousands of auto workers are finding themselves without jobs. Airlines are cutting flights and finding fewer passengers at the same time. Why? Because of rising fuel costs. Thousands of airline employees are now finding themselves without jobs. Because of the credit crisis, thousands of financial sector employees are without jobs. Thousands of construction workers are without jobs. All of these people will be using what money they have to just survive. They won't be buying DVD players, plasma TVs, computers or new cars...all of which does more to support foreign economies than it does the U.S. since the U.S. doesn't really produce any of those. What really frustrates me about all of this is that the stock market is weak and dollar is low all because of oil. The problem is, because of these factors, speculators continue buying oil as a hedge...which in turn sucks the stock market and the dollar even lower. If they would stop driving up the cost of oil so much, the economy might be able to recover. A voice of reason in a world of woo-woos. |
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Anonymous Coward User ID: 455596 Italy 06/30/2008 01:58 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Doomers: stocks skyrocketing Stocks Show Life as Crude Retreats The market turned around Monday as crude oil prices reversed course, backing off from an earlier intraday record of $143 a barrel. Today's Market As of 12:57 p.m. EDT, the Dow Jones Industrial Average rose 75.15 points, or 0.66% to 11421.26, the Standard & Poor’s 500 index gained 9.87 points, or 0.78%, to 1288.35 and the Nasdaq Composite Index picked up 0.98 points, or 0.04%, to 2316.62. The consumer-friendly FOX 50 rose 8.15 points, or 0.91% to 900.66. [link to www.foxbusiness.com] |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 455596 Italy 06/30/2008 02:03 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | ********** BREAKING NEWS ******* *** MARKET MELTDOWND CANCELLED *** U.S. Stocks Rise as Energy, Industrial Shares Gain; Devon Jumps June 30 (Bloomberg) -- U.S. stocks gained, limiting the market's worst monthly decline in almost six years, after analysts raised earnings estimates for energy companies and a gauge of business spending topped economists' forecasts. [link to www.bloomberg.com] |
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Anonymous Coward User ID: 424156 United States 06/30/2008 06:22 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Just trust THEM it is what ever THEY say it is. Like it would make a difference anyway. They passed a law THEY can take ALL real estate away from you WHEN THEY DEEM IT NECESSARY. So the point in reading THEIR ARTICLES would be WHAT? Other than to WATCH YOU PANIC while YOU wait for THEM to tell you it fell??? They have a reason they are STALLING!!! And THAT would be the ##1 PROBLEM in the u.s.a. today!!!! |
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Enufs Enuf User ID: 339212 United Kingdom 07/01/2008 06:41 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | See: The protocols of the (not so) Learned Elders of Zion [link to ddickerson.igc.org] - AND - in case you forgot: THE SECRET COVENANT. Full version, rated R ! THE SECRET COVENANT An illusion it will be, so large, so vast it will escape their perception. Those who will see it will be thought of as insane. We will create separate fronts to prevent them from seeing the connection between us. We will behave as if we are not connected to keep the illusion alive. Our goal will be accomplished one drop at a time so as to never bring suspicion upon ourselves. This will also prevent them from seeing the changes as they occur. We will always stand above the relative field of their experience for we know the secrets of the absolute. We will work together always and will remain bound by blood and secrecy. Death will come to he who speaks. We will keep their lifespan short and their minds weak while pretending to do the opposite. We will use our knowledge of science and technology in subtle ways so they will never see what is happening. We will use soft metals, aging accelerators and sedatives in food and water, also in the air. They will be blanketed by poisons everywhere they turn. The soft metals will cause them to lose their minds. We will promise to find a cure from our many fronts, yet we will feed them more poison. The poisons will be absorbed trough their skin and mouths, they will destroy their minds and reproductive systems. From all this, their children will be born dead, and we will conceal this information. The poisons will be hidden in everything that surrounds them, in what they drink, eat, breathe and wear. We must be ingenious in dispensing the poisons for they can see far. We will teach them that the poisons are good, with fun images and musical tones. Those they look up to will help. We will enlist them to push our poisons. They will see our products being used in film and will grow accustomed to them and will never know their true effect. When they give birth we will inject poisons into the blood of their children and convince them its for their help. We will start early on, when their minds are young, we will target their children with what children love most, sweet things. When their teeth decay we will fill them with metals that will kill their mind and steal their future. When their ability to learn has been affected, we will create medicine that will make them sicker and cause other diseases for which we will create yet more medicine. We will render them docile and weak before us by our power. They will grow depressed, slow and obese, and when they come to us for help, we will give them more poison. We will focus their attention toward money and material goods so they many never connect with their inner self. We will distract them with fornication, external pleasures and games so they may never be one with the oneness of it all. Their minds will belong to us and they will do as we say. If they refuse we shall find ways to implement mind-altering technology into their lives. We will use fear as our weapon. We will establish their governments and establish opposites within. We will own both sides. We will always hide our objective but carry out our plan. They will perform the labor for us and we shall prosper from their toil. Our families will never mix with theirs. Our blood must be pure always, for it is the way. We will make them kill each other when it suits us. We will keep them separated from the oneness by dogma and religion. We will control all aspects of their lives and tell them what to think and how. We will guide them kindly and gently letting them think they are guiding themselves. We will foment animosity between them through our factions. When a light shall shine among them, we shall extinguish it by ridicule, or death, whichever suits us best. We will make them rip each other's hearts apart and kill their own children. We will accomplish this by using hate as our ally, anger as our friend. The hate will blind them totally, and never shall they see that from their conflicts we emerge as their rulers. They will be busy killing each other. They will bathe in their own blood and kill their neighbors for as long as we see fit. We will benefit greatly from this, for they will not see us, for they cannot see us. We will continue to prosper from their wars and their deaths. We shall repeat this over and over until our ultimate goal is accomplished. We will continue to make them live in fear and anger though images and sounds. We will use all the tools we have to accomplish this. The tools will be provided by their labor. We will make them hate themselves and their neighbors. We will always hide the divine truth from them, that we are all one. This they must never know! They must never know that color is an illusion, they must always think they are not equal. Drop by drop, drop by drop we will advance our goal. We will take over their land, resources and wealth to exercise total control over them. We will deceive them into accepting laws that will steal the little freedom they will have. We will establish a money system that will imprison them forever, keeping them and their children in debt. When they shall ban together, we shall accuse them of crimes and present a different story to the world for we shall own all the media. We will use our media to control the flow of information and their sentiment in our favor. When they shall rise up against us we will crush them like insects, for they are less than that. They will be helpless to do anything for they will have no weapons. We will recruit some of their own to carry out our plans, we will promise them eternal life, but eternal life they will never have for they are not of us. The recruits will be called "initiates" and will be indoctrinated to believe false rites of passage to higher realms. Members of these groups will think they are one with us never knowing the truth. They must never learn this truth for they will turn against us. For their work they will be rewarded with earthly things and great titles, but never will they become immortal and join us, never will they receive the light and travel the stars. They will never reach the higher realms, for the killing of their own kind will prevent passage to the realm of enlightenment. This they will never know. The truth will be hidden in their face, so close they will not be able to focus on it until its too late. Oh yes, so grand the illusion of freedom will be, that they will never know they are our slaves. When all is in place, the reality we will have created for them will own them. This reality will be their prison. They will live in self-delusion. When our goal is accomplished a new era of domination will begin. Their minds will be bound by their beliefs, the beliefs we have established from time immemorial. But if they ever find out they are our equal, we shall perish then. THIS THEY MUST NEVER KNOW. If they ever find out that together they can vanquish us, they will take action. They must never, ever find out what we have done, for if they do, we shall have no place to run, for it will be easy to see who we are once the veil has fallen. Our actions will have revealed who we are and they will hunt us down and no person shall give us shelter. This is the secret covenant by which we shall live the rest of our present and future lives, for this reality will transcend many generations and life spans. This covenant is sealed by blood, our blood. We, the ones who from heaven to earth came. This covenant must NEVER, EVER be known to exist. It must NEVER, EVER be written or spoken of for if it is, the consciousness it will spawn will release the fury of the PRIME CREATOR upon us and we shall be cast to the depths from whence we came and remain there until the end time of infinity itself. The Bankindex editorial staff thanks you for all your e-mails regarding this piece, but we do NOT know who he or she is. The piece came in through one of our forms and the Author left an unusable e-mail address. Thank you. Written by UNKNOWN Author has submitted second version, Posted 6/21/2002 [link to www.unveilingthem.com] |