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WOW! Jaw-dropper INCOMING! 2 Jesuit priests create PRE-TRIB view during the1500's

 
BOOTCAMP Granny
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WOW! Jaw-dropper INCOMING! 2 Jesuit priests create PRE-TRIB view during the1500's
I was a pre-tribber for over 40 years....and I think my head almost exploded :-) when I discovered the information below. The Lord asked me:

"Well, My friend, you asked Me for the truth. Here is a little piece of church history that you need to know about."

Imagine the rage inside the papal halls when Martin Luther heroically led droves of spiritually oppressed people all over Europe out of their prison and into spiritual freedom....and who took all their money with them. That bombshell resulted in the Counter Reformation and the 2 Jesuit priests with their attempt to round up all the "Protestant heretics" and put them back in prison under the papacy.

When we don't know a bit of Church History, we're open to all kinds of lies:

[link to en.wikipedia.org (secure)]

Counter-Reformation:

The view of Futurism [the pre-trib view], a product of the Counter-Reformation, was advanced beginning in the 16th century in response to the identification of the Papacy as Antichrist.

Francisco Ribera (1537–1591) a Jesuit priest, developed this theory in In Sacram Beati Ioannis Apostoli & Evangelistae Apocalypsin Commentarij, his 1585 treatise on the Apocalypse of John.

St. Bellarmine (1542-1621) codified this view, giving in full the Catholic theory set forth by the Greek and Latin Fathers, of a personal Antichrist to come just before the end of the world and to be accepted by the Jews and enthroned in the temple at Jerusalem. Most premillennial dispensationalists now accept Bellarmine's interpretation in modified form. Widespread US Protestant identification of the Papacy as the Antichrist persisted until the early 1900s when the Scofield Reference Bible was published by Cyrus Scofield. This commentary promoted Futurism [the pre-trib view], causing a decline in the Protestant identification of the Papacy as Antichrist.


Why is it important that we know why, how, and WHERE this pre-trib view originally came from? KNOWLEDGE IS POWER!!!

If we are looking for a 3rd temple, 2 men as witnesses, one evil person called 'the antichrist,' a covenant with Israel - later broken, and we are expecting the church to be gone before a 7 year or 3.5 year tribulation -- then we will be tempted to sink into despair when these things don't actually unfold as we have been told repeatedly from the pulpit and numerous "best sellers."

NOTE: there is a HUGE DIFFERENCE in the Bible between tribulation and wrath.

Tribulation has always been part of the true church down through history. Do you think that over 100 million Christians killed for their faith during the dark ages was not tribulation? Sure it was!!! Read Foxe's Book of Martyrs for the proof. And who killed them? Members of the fake church, that's who.

Tribulation is our bootcamp training, our invitation to EXCELLENCE, our last chance to bring great GLORY to our God, to trample on the devil's neck and take spoils. It's our open door to have a fiery and blazing faith like Moses, Elijah, Elisha, Joshua, like Paul, and all the disciples who were martyred for their faith.

God Himself has always come close to His kids and brought POWER and GRACE and PATIENCE when the fiery furnace was heated X 7. We don't have to be afraid of anything He allows....EVER!!!

Wrath is in a different category than our tribulations....it is the stubborn unbeliever's destruction, their time of God's judgment. Wrath has also been occurring for centuries. You will find it all through history when God has had enough of people's sin.

Can you see how there is a huge difference between tribulation and wrath?

When trials and heartbreak come, this is how Satan will want to have his way with us:
he will try to sink us so deeply into despair that we are tempted to believe the Lord has abandoned us. Or better yet....to think that maybe there isn't even really a God after all. Why would God allow all this pain if He is a God of Love? Where is He when we really need Him?

See where this is going? Satan will try to grab us by the throat and get us to abandon the Lord, because, supposedly "He abandoned us." Well, we know He could never abandon the kids He dreamed about even before the foundation of the earth.

The real question:
Is our mind, will & emotions strong enough through God's Power to have FAITH so deeply embedded in our souls, that we hang on like Bulldogs when the devil is trying to tear us to shreds? Those who are spiritually lazy and not daily soaking up strength in the Scripture's Promises and spending time with God in prayer will be "open season" for demonic assaults of lies, half-truths, and intimidations.

Do I think that pre-tribbers are going to hell? ABSOLUTELY NOT!!! I have many pre-trib friends.

The ones going to hell are all those who refuse to humble themselves and come to the foot of the Cross and repent fully of all their sins, having them washed away into the "Sea of God's Forgetfulness" through the Blood of Christ. And we must surrender our wills and make Him LORD of our lives. There should be no debate about this.

John Gill (theologian/pastor in London 1800's) stated: "This period of trial at the very end will be SHARP but SHORT." In other words, it will hurt a bit, but it won't last long! God shortens this experience for the sake of His elect.

Cool trick of the devil to raise up 2 brilliant Jesuit priests -- Ribera & Bellarmine, huh?

If you think just 1 link is not enough to shed light on the origin of the pre-trib view, there's tons of material online about these 2 Jesuit priests. Do some research and discover it for yourself. :-)

Well, now that we know why, how, and where the pre-trib view really came from, we can ask God to help us adjust to the Truth.

No arguments!!! If we are true believers, then I think we should be able to talk gently with each other as dear friends. My intent for this thread is to ADD INFORMATION that most of the church probably doesn't know about yet.
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Re: WOW! Jaw-dropper INCOMING! 2 Jesuit priests create PRE-TRIB view during the1500's
bump for later
BOOTCAMP Granny  (OP)

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Re: WOW! Jaw-dropper INCOMING! 2 Jesuit priests create PRE-TRIB view during the1500's
THNX friend!!! :-)
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Re: WOW! Jaw-dropper INCOMING! 2 Jesuit priests create PRE-TRIB view during the1500's
Please summarize and explain like I’m a tard.
Thanks in advance.
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Re: WOW! Jaw-dropper INCOMING! 2 Jesuit priests create PRE-TRIB view during the1500's
Wait til you find out what happened in 325, bro.
BOOTCAMP Granny  (OP)

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Re: WOW! Jaw-dropper INCOMING! 2 Jesuit priests create PRE-TRIB view during the1500's
Hey friend! I'll try to explain it briefly:

1.) Martin Luther started the Reformation in 1517. Thousands followed him OUT of the Catholic Church. They were called "protesters" or "Protestants." Luther was preaching that the Catholic Church was the Antichrist.

2.) Well, this of course, did not sit very well with the papacy. The pope and Jesuits wanted all these "Protestant heretics" back under their control. Plus they wanted all the people's money back in their coffers. Go figure...money is always at the root of false doctrine.

3.) So the Catholic Church concocted a way to get all these "Protestant heretics" back -- at the famous Council of Trent.

4.) Two clever & brilliant Jesuit priest theologians wrote up documents stating that the Catholic Church was not the antichrist -- like Luther had been preaching, and that the Antichrist did not come on the scene until the very End of Time just before Christ returned. Bellarmine twisted the Scriptures so that it appeared in that there would be a 3rd temple, a covenant that the Antichrist would make with Israel and then break, and that there would be a 3.5 year or 7 year tribulation.....but Christians didn't need to worry about it because they would be RAPTURED out of here before the painful stuff started.

5.) This pre-trib view started with these 2 Jesuit priests back in the 1500's and has been taught for over 400 years.

6.) Famous Protestant Reformers like Tyndale, Calvin, Knox, Wycliffe, and a host of others REJECTED THIS PAPAL pre-trib view and believed that the Book of Daniel and Revelation described church history (from Daniel's time right down to when Christ comes again).

Hope this helps. Got questions?...ask away!
BOOTCAMP Granny  (OP)

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11/20/2023 07:42 PM
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Re: WOW! Jaw-dropper INCOMING! 2 Jesuit priests create PRE-TRIB view during the1500's
Please summarize and explain like I’m a tard.
Thanks in advance.


I'm NEW in posting, so not sure how to highlight your request, but I hope to figure it out. lol. Maybe it worked.

Hope you saw my list above trying to explain it.
BOOTCAMP Granny  (OP)

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Re: WOW! Jaw-dropper INCOMING! 2 Jesuit priests create PRE-TRIB view during the1500's
New poster here.

Can someone help me out and explain how to respond to someone's comment, with their comment in blue?

I tried highlighting it, but as you can see above, it did not work. THNX for help anyone can give me. lol. :-/
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Re: WOW! Jaw-dropper INCOMING! 2 Jesuit priests create PRE-TRIB view during the1500's
Please summarize and explain like I’m a tard.
Thanks in advance.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 84459848


He did that in the title of the thread as thats all most tards read before they reply
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Re: WOW! Jaw-dropper INCOMING! 2 Jesuit priests create PRE-TRIB view during the1500's
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Re: WOW! Jaw-dropper INCOMING! 2 Jesuit priests create PRE-TRIB view during the1500's
Added

PRE TRIB RAPTURE TOTALLY DEBUNKED!!!

Jesus made it clear that He doesn't Return until AFTER the Tribulation - and the 'tares' are removed FIRST.

Thread: Revelation 11 - The Last Trump, Resurrection, Judgement, Reward - NO Pre-Trib Rapture

Thread: The Resurrection is the Main Event - Not the Rapture - Revelation / End Times

And a MUST READ...

... Thread: WOW! Jaw-dropper INCOMING! 2 Jesuit priests create PRE-TRIB view during the1500's

..........................

Thread: Revelation 20 - Rapture / First Resurrection Happens After Satan is Bound - KJV Bible Study

Thread: Fear Not - Endure Until the End - Post-Trib Rapture - KJV Bible Study

Thread: THERE WILL BE NO PRE TRIB RAPTURE..here is why..IF you have the guts to read it.

Thread: After the Tribulation: Revisited - NO Pre-Trib Rapture - KJV Bible Study Christian Theology

Thread: Pre-Trib Rapture? How Does the Last Trump Happen BEFORE that? - KJV Bible Sutdy

Thread: The Great Tribulation is Not Wrath - Rapture End Times - KJV Bible Study

Thread: The Great Falling Away - Scripture Tells Us Exactly What It Is - Bible Study

Thread: The "Day of Christ" is the Same as "the Day of the Lord" - Bible Study
Anonymous Coward
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Re: WOW! Jaw-dropper INCOMING! 2 Jesuit priests create PRE-TRIB view during the1500's
Jesus hates your guts OP with a hate sooo deep and dark that burning you alive for a billion years wont sate his dark hate and revenge on you for daring to ask question and do the ultimate sin of thinking.

He will torture you in screaming pain for untold eons upon eons, and when at last he finally relents after a trillion trillion years he will let you out for ten seconds...and realise that he just cant forgive you and toss you back in screaming his dark hate at you and telling you that his revenge and etrnal sadism has only just begun.

But dont feel bad...you wont be alone...he will be doing exactly the same thing to trillions.
Mothers..fathers..brothers..sisters..grandparents..matters not to him.

He hates families and cant wait to burn entire bloodlines in the fires of his insatiable sadistic revenge.

His mercies are new every morning and his love never fails..and he loves you.

praise jesus.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 67711148


Fuuuck...what??
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 86488840


Yeah...what?
Keilani

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Re: WOW! Jaw-dropper INCOMING! 2 Jesuit priests create PRE-TRIB view during the1500's
Living in the south pre-trib is huge, but I never bought into it, makes no sense biblically or logically.

First, why does western world think they will somehow escape tribulations as a Christian? Do they somehow think they are holier than all the other countries where Christians are currently being persecuted? Makes no sense.
BOOTCAMP Granny  (OP)

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Re: WOW! Jaw-dropper INCOMING! 2 Jesuit priests create PRE-TRIB view during the1500's
YES, lots of good stuff listed there.

But it's so hard to change views when you've been raised pre-trib.

I remember as a kid around age 12...when the Sunday morning sermon was boring...that I would open up my Scofield Reference Bible and read all those pre-trib notes that Scofield wrote. I was fascinated by it. And then, of course, I read Hal Lindsey and Tim LaHaye when I was older.

So I have lots & lots of sympathy when pre-tribbers are trying to be open, but are having a hard time taking in new information. I still consider them as friends. I think the Lord wants us to embrace all true believers.
BOOTCAMP Granny  (OP)

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11/20/2023 08:39 PM
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Re: WOW! Jaw-dropper INCOMING! 2 Jesuit priests create PRE-TRIB view during the1500's
Hey Keilani...

Yup-- pre-trib is very big in the south. I may be living in Canada right now, but I grew up in Florida, and went to Bible College in South Carolina...Canadians still detect a bit of a southern drawl with me.
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Re: WOW! Jaw-dropper INCOMING! 2 Jesuit priests create PRE-TRIB view during the1500's
Living in the south pre-trib is huge, but I never bought into it, makes no sense biblically or logically.

First, why does western world think they will somehow escape tribulations as a Christian? Do they somehow think they are holier than all the other countries where Christians are currently being persecuted? Makes no sense.
 Quoting: Keilani


What does where you live have to do with whether it's true or not?
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Re: WOW! Jaw-dropper INCOMING! 2 Jesuit priests create PRE-TRIB view during the1500's
OP,

How did they create it if some believed it from the beginning?

Why don't you know about that?

Have you never actually studied it?

Most don't study The Bible.

Very few do.
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Re: WOW! Jaw-dropper INCOMING! 2 Jesuit priests create PRE-TRIB view during the1500's
Added

PRE TRIB RAPTURE TOTALLY DEBUNKED!!!

Jesus made it clear that He doesn't Return until AFTER the Tribulation - and the 'tares' are removed FIRST.

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 86547577


Retard, Jesus doesn't return at the Rapture.

Do you even know what the rapture is?
Keilani

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Re: WOW! Jaw-dropper INCOMING! 2 Jesuit priests create PRE-TRIB view during the1500's
Hey Keilani...

Yup-- pre-trib is very big in the south. I may be living in Canada right now, but I grew up in Florida, and went to Bible College in South Carolina...Canadians still detect a bit of a southern drawl with me.
 Quoting: BOOTCAMP Granny


Hi yes, I was kind of the opposite, didn't move here until my early teens, so I could see both sides I guess. I have the drawl now though, LOL>
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Re: WOW! Jaw-dropper INCOMING! 2 Jesuit priests create PRE-TRIB view during the1500's
Added

PRE TRIB RAPTURE TOTALLY DEBUNKED!!!

Jesus made it clear that He doesn't Return until AFTER the Tribulation - and the 'tares' are removed FIRST.

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 86547577


Retard, Jesus doesn't return at the Rapture.

Do you even know what the rapture is?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 86548544


Not only are you a typically insulting hate filled satanic rapture tard by calling me a retard for no reason...

You didnt read a single one of those links.

Like all satanic rapture tards..

You hear only what you WANT to hear

And know only what you heard
BOOTCAMP Granny  (OP)

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Re: WOW! Jaw-dropper INCOMING! 2 Jesuit priests create PRE-TRIB view during the1500's
OP,

How did they create it if some believed it from the beginning?

Why don't you know about that?

Have you never actually studied it?

Most don't study The Bible.

Very few do.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 86548544



Yes, I'm aware a few believed in a pre-tribulation view from before the 1500's....but the majority of scholars who knew Hebrew and Greek did not embrace it.

Just so you know where I'm coming from, I love studying the Scriptures...nearly all subjects. I'm retired now so have lots of time on my hands, which lets me study Hebrew and Greek meanings of words. And I probably spend an average of 2-3 hours a day reading commentaries. I don't get out much because I'm in a wheelchair now (arthritis...lol) --- so I have oodles of time for study. So glad you also see how necessary deeper study is in our growth. :-)

You're very right...most don't study the Bible. I don't think squeaking in a few minutes in the morning reading some famous person's devotional for the day before running out the door to work should be classified as studying the Scriptures. Sadly, I think that's what lots of folks do.
BOOTCAMP Granny  (OP)

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11/20/2023 09:13 PM
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Re: WOW! Jaw-dropper INCOMING! 2 Jesuit priests create PRE-TRIB view during the1500's
Hey Keilani...

Yup-- pre-trib is very big in the south. I may be living in Canada right now, but I grew up in Florida, and went to Bible College in South Carolina...Canadians still detect a bit of a southern drawl with me.
 Quoting: BOOTCAMP Granny


Hi yes, I was kind of the opposite, didn't move here until my early teens, so I could see both sides I guess. I have the drawl now though, LOL>
 Quoting: Keilani


Darn-it-all....Sometimes I really miss the South and I sure miss hearing that sweet southern drawl. My favourite brekky growing up in the Orlando area was a plateful of grits, with a sunny side up egg and strips of crispy bacon. Canadians aren't much into that I guess.

So glad you never got deep into the pre-trib thing...it's hard to let go of it when that's all you've ever known.

Also glad that God embraces all His kids no matter where we are in our journey.
BOOTCAMP Granny  (OP)

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Re: WOW! Jaw-dropper INCOMING! 2 Jesuit priests create PRE-TRIB view during the1500's
Living in the south pre-trib is huge, but I never bought into it, makes no sense biblically or logically.

First, why does western world think they will somehow escape tribulations as a Christian? Do they somehow think they are holier than all the other countries where Christians are currently being persecuted? Makes no sense.
 Quoting: Keilani



No kidding about persecution going on in other countries. I'd hate to be living in the Middle East, Russia, China, and a host of other places where you never know if you get to live another full day.

I love what one true born again Iranian said just before they killed him:

"How sad that any of us should die of natural causes."

He was happy and proud to lay down his life for Christ.
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Re: WOW! Jaw-dropper INCOMING! 2 Jesuit priests create PRE-TRIB view during the1500's
Added

PRE TRIB RAPTURE TOTALLY DEBUNKED!!!

Jesus made it clear that He doesn't Return until AFTER the Tribulation - and the 'tares' are removed FIRST.

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 86547577


Retard, Jesus doesn't return at the Rapture.

Do you even know what the rapture is?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 86548544


Not only are you a typically insulting hate filled satanic rapture tard by calling me a retard for no reason...

You didnt read a single one of those links.

Like all satanic rapture tards..

You hear only what you WANT to hear

And know only what you heard
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 86547577


Sweetheart, Jesus doesn't return at the Rapture.

Do you even know what the rapture is?
Anonymous Coward
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11/20/2023 09:27 PM
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Re: WOW! Jaw-dropper INCOMING! 2 Jesuit priests create PRE-TRIB view during the1500's
Living in the south pre-trib is huge, but I never bought into it, makes no sense biblically or logically.

First, why does western world think they will somehow escape tribulations as a Christian? Do they somehow think they are holier than all the other countries where Christians are currently being persecuted? Makes no sense.
 Quoting: Keilani



No kidding about persecution going on in other countries. I'd hate to be living in the Middle East, Russia, China, and a host of other places where you never know if you get to live another full day.

I love what one true born again Iranian said just before they killed him:

"How sad that any of us should die of natural causes."

He was happy and proud to lay down his life for Christ.
 Quoting: BOOTCAMP Granny


This..

If you dont die FOR SOMETHING..

YOU WILL DIE

FOR NOTHING!
Anonymous Coward
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11/20/2023 09:30 PM
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Re: WOW! Jaw-dropper INCOMING! 2 Jesuit priests create PRE-TRIB view during the1500's
OP,

How did they create it if some believed it from the beginning?

Why don't you know about that?

Have you never actually studied it?

Most don't study The Bible.

Very few do.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 86548544



Yes, I'm aware a few believed in a pre-tribulation view from before the 1500's....but the majority of scholars who knew Hebrew and Greek did not embrace it.

Just so you know where I'm coming from, I love studying the Scriptures...nearly all subjects. I'm retired now so have lots of time on my hands, which lets me study Hebrew and Greek meanings of words. And I probably spend an average of 2-3 hours a day reading commentaries. I don't get out much because I'm in a wheelchair now (arthritis...lol) --- so I have oodles of time for study. So glad you also see how necessary deeper study is in our growth. :-)

You're very right...most don't study the Bible. I don't think squeaking in a few minutes in the morning reading some famous person's devotional for the day before running out the door to work should be classified as studying the Scriptures. Sadly, I think that's what lots of folks do.
 Quoting: BOOTCAMP Granny



"But you, Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book until the time of the end; many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase."

Daniel 12:4
BOOTCAMP Granny  (OP)

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Re: WOW! Jaw-dropper INCOMING! 2 Jesuit priests create PRE-TRIB view during the1500's
YES....I think "knowledge being increased" perhaps started around Sir Isaac Newton's time....1600-1700's.

Adam Clarke, another theologian from a past century, was fluent in 11 different languages including Hebrew & Greek. So his commentary on "end times" is pretty helpful.

He figured out from the math given in the Scriptures, that something very significant would happen in Israel around 1966-1967. Well, we all know what that was. I'm amazed when these guys from past centuries do this...it makes me smile. And it's a fulfillment of the prophecy you mentioned above.
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Re: WOW! Jaw-dropper INCOMING! 2 Jesuit priests create PRE-TRIB view during the1500's
BOOTCAMP GRANNY,

THAT'S AN AWESOME NAME! 5a

I THOUGHT JOHN NELSON DARBY INVENTED THE FALSE DOCTRINE KNOWN AS "THE RAPTURE." HE POPULARIZED IT AROUND 1850.

SOME THEOLOGIANS CALL IT HARPAZO. 1 THESSALONIANS 4:17

I DON'T SUBSCRIBE TO EITHER THE RAPTURE OR HARPAZO EITHER, FWIW
Texan
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Re: WOW! Jaw-dropper INCOMING! 2 Jesuit priests create PRE-TRIB view during the1500's
Don't worry about the rapture, you aren't going...
hesright
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Re: WOW! Jaw-dropper INCOMING! 2 Jesuit priests create PRE-TRIB view during the1500's
BOOTCAMP GRANNY,

THAT'S AN AWESOME NAME! 5a

I THOUGHT JOHN NELSON DARBY INVENTED THE FALSE DOCTRINE KNOWN AS "THE RAPTURE." HE POPULARIZED IT AROUND 1850.

SOME THEOLOGIANS CALL IT HARPAZO. 1 THESSALONIANS 4:17

I DON'T SUBSCRIBE TO EITHER THE RAPTURE OR HARPAZO EITHER, FWIW
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 84355330

bump
SqueakyOne

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Re: WOW! Jaw-dropper INCOMING! 2 Jesuit priests create PRE-TRIB view during the1500's
Don't worry about the rapture, you aren't going...
hesright
 Quoting: Texan


Wow! Matthew 24:29 is pretty clear about Christ's return! "After the great tribulation..."

I was adopted and raised pretrib from 8 years on- My hubby had no Church upbringing and one day told me he doesn't see the pretrib view in scripture. Instead of blowing him off and telling he was going to hell and he was stealing my blessed hope, I simply said that I would show him what scripture said. It didn't take long to discover the pretrib doctrine is a lie! Early Christian's and their families were fed to the lions but we rich pampered laodiceans get to skate out of this world before your maxed out credit card bill comes due.....I don't think so! Yep! No pretrib rapture in scripture.

I also looked into the pretrib rapture doctrine- I seem to remember about 1200 years after Christ, a teeny bopper prophetess, a Jesuit priest and a dispensationalist preacher came up with the doctrine about the same time. Up until then, Jesus's disciples never spoke of it. Other early church writings have no mention of it......1200 years and poof into existence

Edit- looks like 1800-1900 years= Margaret MacDonald, John Darby, and Scofield, a Kansas lawyer (you know about them- 99% of them give the rest a bad name)

"That organization produced a book, and put it into the hands of a charismatic preacher, who taught it to his church. And, a young woman, Margaret MacDonald, had a vision that hit the headlines. Those newspaper headlines convinced a young John Nelson Darby to add a pre-tribulation rapture into his theory of Dispensationalism."

Last Edited by SqueakyOne on 11/21/2023 05:18 PM





GLP