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Was Jesus a Wizard?’ Is Actually a Serious Scholarly Question

 
Sound
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06/05/2023 09:23 PM
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Anonymous Coward
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Re: Was Jesus a Wizard?’ Is Actually a Serious Scholarly Question
According to the Nag Hammadi library of ancient texts dating back to just 100 years after Christ's birth, the man who would later be called "Jesus" was a disciple of the Essene mystery school and likely studied mysticism in Alexandria. The form of magick they taught was different from what we conventionally think of as "sorcery" which draws on pacts with spirits/gods/demons and requires elaborate rituals, oaths, and sacrificial "cost" as payment for the spell. Instead, the Essene schools and others like it used the power of consciousness itself to forge a direct connection with God, manifesting powers and effects that were extensions of God's will. The most accomplished practitioners were called "sons of God". The Essenes also had an egregore - a metaphysical construct that tied initiated members of the group together and pooled their collective power into a magickal "battery" which could be used by the highest anointed among them. Christ attained this mastery and was bestowed the egregore garment to use
 Quoting: The Alkahest


Thank you for making this important distinction between sorcery and mystical powers/ magic.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 85746714


It all comes with a price.

He was not an Essene. He rejected all the garments those expecting Him made. He didn't need them. He didn't need their teachings. He was the embodiment of the autogenes. The self created first being made. He didn't need anything outside of His own being because He created himself. He prepared a body for his use. That's not magic, sorcery or wizardry. That's the power of the creator itself. No human has that sort of power and it's not humans' power to be bottled up in potions and rituals for personal gain.

Jesus is a battery for religion except it's not Jesus that's being used as the battery. It's the worshipers powering the false Jesus egregore garments all the different sects sowed.

The early icons were of a man holding rods, staffs, scrolls or books. He wasn't shown on a cross until Rome took over in 300s.

Best to have a direct relationship and leave all the others in between out. Everyone is out to make a buck on God. Bad luck with all that. There is a price for taking from the power for a profit.
Anonymous Coward
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06/05/2023 09:50 PM
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Re: Was Jesus a Wizard?’ Is Actually a Serious Scholarly Question
Different garment makers have been profiting off of Christ for two thousand years. Bill always comes due.
Anonymous Coward
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06/05/2023 09:56 PM
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Re: Was Jesus a Wizard?’ Is Actually a Serious Scholarly Question
magic is nothing more than moving of energy. We all do it, all the time.
Arkansassy

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06/05/2023 10:05 PM

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Re: Was Jesus a Wizard?’ Is Actually a Serious Scholarly Question
FYI no Christian is a witch, because a witch is pagan. Christians who do are called magicians. Unless they are sanctioned by a church, in which case the magic is called a miracle. But the distinction means nothing. Jesus taught that we could do miracles like him, and intended us to come into our power as human beings.

I believe Jesus did an elaborate blood magic ritual using his own blood, which is why any human can invoke him to rebuke a demon. Before he did that demons ran rampant in the ancient world. There is a reason why people used to be so fearful and superstitious. They had a lot to be afraid of and they understood a lot of things that we modern people have become ignorant of. Also, because of Jesus's sacrifice things have changed for humanity.

The demons are extremely jealous of us, because human beings have superpowers compared to them. God made us special and above them, we just have to grow into the power that God gave us.

I believe this is why the greys (demons or inter dimensional beings) are studying our religions, because they are afraid of our spiritual power. They don't even understand it.
IDGAF
The Alkahest

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06/06/2023 01:58 AM
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Re: Was Jesus a Wizard?’ Is Actually a Serious Scholarly Question
Anyone can walk a similar path as did Christ.
Thus they enter phos anthropos the door of their heart.
Exert yourself, to know yourself.
Eve began to know right and wrong.
The snake is bruised in the head by the heel of someone who has authority.
All things were made through Jesus, as john one says.

Even you. Were made through the eye and template of Jesus.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77168746


But what about everybody who was born BEFORE Jesus...smh...
 Quoting: Angels 80534266


So...I need an answer to this. Can you answer this? Anyone? Rationally? I kind of doubt it...cause what are you going to condemn those that lived before only because Jesus did not exist yet? Or do they get a pass? I don't get it...

scratching
 Quoting: Angels 80534266


The two primary competing orthodox views on this matter are that the souls of all those born prior to Christ's new covenant are either:

1. Judged entirely on the basis of the old Noahide laws, the Ten Commandments, and the Holy Torah, particularly the codes of ethics and law in Leviticus. It was a much higher standard of spiritual rigor and the consequences were unforgiving. Some theologians believe that the souls who were damned prior to Christ's death can be saved through a prayer for divine intervention.

2. Held in purgatory "asleep", awaiting the final judgment when they will be given the opportunity to personally accept or deny Christ.
The Alkahest

A Meta-sapient Godelian Recursion Engine. Super Fun at Parties.
Researching human evolution via Fractal Psychogenic Ontology. Disclaimer: Current project (un?)constrained by sample-size N=1
Gleichmut
Om mani padme hum

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06/06/2023 02:00 AM

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Re: Was Jesus a Wizard?’ Is Actually a Serious Scholarly Question
I just found this while trying to decompress from my schoolwork before certification work lol and my opinion is yes...yes he was...

chuckle
 Quoting: Angels 80534266


He's such a wizard, people depict him as a wizard, so they can at least pretend to imitate him

chuckle
.Truth made names in the world, and without them we can’t refer to truth. Truth is one and is many, teaching one thing through the many...
.It won't be seen or understood as something particular. Rather, the kingdom is spread out upon the earth, yet people do not see it..
Anonymous Coward
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06/06/2023 02:05 AM
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Re: Was Jesus a Wizard?’ Is Actually a Serious Scholarly Question
no 'cause that would be comparing him to simon magus or the gnostics and mystics and that's bahhhhhh'd

sheep

gohomealiens
 Quoting: abbaton 84276043

Simon magus crime was impersonating deity, replacing the divine with him

Gnostics were competition

"Thaumaturgy" means "wonder working" and is as close a definition as it gets. Greeks believed gods had powers.....paleo desert poo birds believed demons did....the power of God for good in the earth didn't start with jesus and was the purpose of devotion. Until you know whos that is....
Angels
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06/07/2023 12:58 PM
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Re: Was Jesus a Wizard?’ Is Actually a Serious Scholarly Question

 Quoting: Sound 80052053


Thank you! I just got done watching! Very interesting. :)

hf
Angels
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06/07/2023 01:00 PM
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Re: Was Jesus a Wizard?’ Is Actually a Serious Scholarly Question
According to the Nag Hammadi library of ancient texts dating back to just 100 years after Christ's birth, the man who would later be called "Jesus" was a disciple of the Essene mystery school and likely studied mysticism in Alexandria. The form of magick they taught was different from what we conventionally think of as "sorcery" which draws on pacts with spirits/gods/demons and requires elaborate rituals, oaths, and sacrificial "cost" as payment for the spell. Instead, the Essene schools and others like it used the power of consciousness itself to forge a direct connection with God, manifesting powers and effects that were extensions of God's will. The most accomplished practitioners were called "sons of God". The Essenes also had an egregore - a metaphysical construct that tied initiated members of the group together and pooled their collective power into a magickal "battery" which could be used by the highest anointed among them. Christ attained this mastery and was bestowed the egregore garment to use
 Quoting: The Alkahest


Thank you for making this important distinction between sorcery and mystical powers/ magic.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 85746714


It all comes with a price.

He was not an Essene. He rejected all the garments those expecting Him made. He didn't need them. He didn't need their teachings. He was the embodiment of the autogenes. The self created first being made. He didn't need anything outside of His own being because He created himself. He prepared a body for his use. That's not magic, sorcery or wizardry. That's the power of the creator itself. No human has that sort of power and it's not humans' power to be bottled up in potions and rituals for personal gain.

Jesus is a battery for religion except it's not Jesus that's being used as the battery. It's the worshipers powering the false Jesus egregore garments all the different sects sowed.

The early icons were of a man holding rods, staffs, scrolls or books. He wasn't shown on a cross until Rome took over in 300s.

Best to have a direct relationship and leave all the others in between out. Everyone is out to make a buck on God. Bad luck with all that. There is a price for taking from the power for a profit.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 85931028


He made himself? blink Nah...the creator made him. Jesus was not first and will not be the last. All things repeat.
Angels
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06/07/2023 01:03 PM
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Re: Was Jesus a Wizard?’ Is Actually a Serious Scholarly Question
Different garment makers have been profiting off of Christ for two thousand years. Bill always comes due.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 85931028


...
Anonymous Coward
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06/07/2023 01:04 PM
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Re: Was Jesus a Wizard?’ Is Actually a Serious Scholarly Question
He is God

walked the earth
Angels
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06/07/2023 01:05 PM
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Re: Was Jesus a Wizard?’ Is Actually a Serious Scholarly Question
magic is nothing more than moving of energy. We all do it, all the time.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 83926296


Exactly!
Angels
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06/07/2023 01:08 PM
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Re: Was Jesus a Wizard?’ Is Actually a Serious Scholarly Question
FYI no Christian is a witch, because a witch is pagan. Christians who do are called magicians. Unless they are sanctioned by a church, in which case the magic is called a miracle. But the distinction means nothing. Jesus taught that we could do miracles like him, and intended us to come into our power as human beings.

I believe Jesus did an elaborate blood magic ritual using his own blood, which is why any human can invoke him to rebuke a demon. Before he did that demons ran rampant in the ancient world. There is a reason why people used to be so fearful and superstitious. They had a lot to be afraid of and they understood a lot of things that we modern people have become ignorant of. Also, because of Jesus's sacrifice things have changed for humanity.

The demons are extremely jealous of us, because human beings have superpowers compared to them. God made us special and above them, we just have to grow into the power that God gave us.

I believe this is why the greys (demons or inter dimensional beings) are studying our religions, because they are afraid of our spiritual power. They don't even understand it.
 Quoting: Arkansassy


You are right the distinction means nothing...so in your mind they are still witches right? And pagan? Do you know for a fact Jesus did a blood ritual? Is there any evidence to back that up? I have done my own blood rituals, so I know it is possible. Demons are and have always run rampant. Nothing has changed. The demons want the fall of humans. They want to be in body again...but can't. The alien thing is a whole nother thread lol
Angels
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06/07/2023 01:10 PM
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Re: Was Jesus a Wizard?’ Is Actually a Serious Scholarly Question
Anyone can walk a similar path as did Christ.
Thus they enter phos anthropos the door of their heart.
Exert yourself, to know yourself.
Eve began to know right and wrong.
The snake is bruised in the head by the heel of someone who has authority.
All things were made through Jesus, as john one says.

Even you. Were made through the eye and template of Jesus.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77168746


But what about everybody who was born BEFORE Jesus...smh...
 Quoting: Angels 80534266


So...I need an answer to this. Can you answer this? Anyone? Rationally? I kind of doubt it...cause what are you going to condemn those that lived before only because Jesus did not exist yet? Or do they get a pass? I don't get it...

scratching
 Quoting: Angels 80534266


The two primary competing orthodox views on this matter are that the souls of all those born prior to Christ's new covenant are either:

1. Judged entirely on the basis of the old Noahide laws, the Ten Commandments, and the Holy Torah, particularly the codes of ethics and law in Leviticus. It was a much higher standard of spiritual rigor and the consequences were unforgiving. Some theologians believe that the souls who were damned prior to Christ's death can be saved through a prayer for divine intervention.

2. Held in purgatory "asleep", awaiting the final judgment when they will be given the opportunity to personally accept or deny Christ.
 Quoting: The Alkahest


I don't believe in any of it. Nothing has to be so complicated...smh...
Angels
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06/07/2023 01:11 PM
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Re: Was Jesus a Wizard?’ Is Actually a Serious Scholarly Question
I just found this while trying to decompress from my schoolwork before certification work lol and my opinion is yes...yes he was...

chuckle
 Quoting: Angels 80534266


He's such a wizard, people depict him as a wizard, so they can at least pretend to imitate him

chuckle
 Quoting: Gleichmut


Right? But then they outright deny it...when it is right in front of their eyes. These people are so brainwashed it's not funny. They are the ones who not make it.
Angels
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06/07/2023 01:12 PM
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Re: Was Jesus a Wizard?’ Is Actually a Serious Scholarly Question
He is God

walked the earth
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 80218124


Oh yeah? Did he say he was God?

hmm
Anonymous Coward
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06/07/2023 01:17 PM
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Re: Was Jesus a Wizard?’ Is Actually a Serious Scholarly Question
In 1978, Columbia historian Morton Smith published Jesus the Magician in which he argued that Jesus was one of many ancient magicians and that his ministry is best understood as wonderworking. He argued that while healing the sick, exorcizing demons, turning water into wine, multiplying bread, and walking on water read to us as signs of Jesus’s divine nature, in his own time he sounded like a magician. If you transplanted Jesus to Hogwarts, it seems, he wouldn’t even stand out.

There are even examples of early Christian artwork that seem to confirm this theory. Stone reliefs on ancient Christian sarcophagi and the walls of the catacombs beneath Rome regularly show Jesus (and sometimes Peter) healing people while holding or even pointing with something that looks very much like a wand. In actual fact, he’s holding a staff and even though we might also associate that with Tolkien’s wizards, it was more likely a way of connecting Jesus to the biblical prophet Moses.

Even if the artistic evidence doesn’t hold up it’s clear that there were those outside of Christianity who also viewed Jesus as a magician. Celsus, a Roman philosopher and critic of Christianity, said that Jesus was a magician who had learned his trade in Egypt. Dr. Shaily Patel, a professor of early Christianity at Virginia Tech and specialist in ancient magic, told the Daily Beast that Christians spent a lot of time defending themselves against these claims. Origen, the third century head of a kind of Christian university in Alexandria, “spilled a lot of ink talking about how Jesus’ wondrous deeds weren’t magic because they were aimed at things like moral reformation and salvation instead of the sorts of parlor trickery displayed by marketplace sorcerers.”

[link to www.thedailybeast.com (secure)]
 Quoting: Angels 80534266


People got healed just by touching His clothes without warning.
Be careful not to attribute the work of the Holy Spirit with that of the devil. You don't want to mistakenly perform the unforgivable sin.
grondwater ginekoloog

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06/07/2023 01:19 PM

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Re: Was Jesus a Wizard?’ Is Actually a Serious Scholarly Question

"a sovereign, fierce of face and skilled at intrigues, shall stand up."
Anonymous Coward
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06/07/2023 01:20 PM
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Re: Was Jesus a Wizard?’ Is Actually a Serious Scholarly Question
He turned lemons into lemonade!
Angels
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06/07/2023 01:25 PM
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Re: Was Jesus a Wizard?’ Is Actually a Serious Scholarly Question
In 1978, Columbia historian Morton Smith published Jesus the Magician in which he argued that Jesus was one of many ancient magicians and that his ministry is best understood as wonderworking. He argued that while healing the sick, exorcizing demons, turning water into wine, multiplying bread, and walking on water read to us as signs of Jesus’s divine nature, in his own time he sounded like a magician. If you transplanted Jesus to Hogwarts, it seems, he wouldn’t even stand out.

There are even examples of early Christian artwork that seem to confirm this theory. Stone reliefs on ancient Christian sarcophagi and the walls of the catacombs beneath Rome regularly show Jesus (and sometimes Peter) healing people while holding or even pointing with something that looks very much like a wand. In actual fact, he’s holding a staff and even though we might also associate that with Tolkien’s wizards, it was more likely a way of connecting Jesus to the biblical prophet Moses.

Even if the artistic evidence doesn’t hold up it’s clear that there were those outside of Christianity who also viewed Jesus as a magician. Celsus, a Roman philosopher and critic of Christianity, said that Jesus was a magician who had learned his trade in Egypt. Dr. Shaily Patel, a professor of early Christianity at Virginia Tech and specialist in ancient magic, told the Daily Beast that Christians spent a lot of time defending themselves against these claims. Origen, the third century head of a kind of Christian university in Alexandria, “spilled a lot of ink talking about how Jesus’ wondrous deeds weren’t magic because they were aimed at things like moral reformation and salvation instead of the sorts of parlor trickery displayed by marketplace sorcerers.”

[link to www.thedailybeast.com (secure)]
 Quoting: Angels 80534266


People got healed just by touching His clothes without warning.
Be careful not to attribute the work of the Holy Spirit with that of the devil. You don't want to mistakenly perform the unforgivable sin.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 85289946


I am not saying he was not an avatar...hence the energy...but what is the unforgivable sin? I don't know your bible. Don't condemn me for something I have no clue about. Also I am not talking about the Devil at all... blink
T-Bone

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06/07/2023 01:30 PM
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Re: Was Jesus a Wizard?’ Is Actually a Serious Scholarly Question
No, when you're the Son of God (God in the flesh), you don't need to pretend to be a wizard or anything else.

He is our Savior and will return to us - I pray it is soon.
Angels
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06/07/2023 01:31 PM
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Re: Was Jesus a Wizard?’ Is Actually a Serious Scholarly Question
He turned lemons into lemonade!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 57825823


Or made whole lemons out of lemonade? chuckle

:P
Angels
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06/07/2023 01:46 PM
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Re: Was Jesus a Wizard?’ Is Actually a Serious Scholarly Question
No, when you're the Son of God (God in the flesh), you don't need to pretend to be a wizard or anything else.

He is our Savior and will return to us - I pray it is soon.
 Quoting: T-Bone


Who said anything about pretending? Avatars don't need to pretend. It's just how they are born... blink So how do you know for sure he was the son of God? Or God in the flesh?
Anonymous Coward
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06/07/2023 02:53 PM
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Re: Was Jesus a Wizard?’ Is Actually a Serious Scholarly Question
He made himself? blink Nah...the creator made him. Jesus was not first and will not be the last. All things repeat.
 Quoting: Angels 84835289


Christ made the body for “Jesus” whose name was Yeshua. Know you don't like the bible but it states that Christ is the Creator because it is the truth. Christ is the Word or mind of the Creator. He ends the loop others made to trap humanity. He removes evil to restore the kingdom which is when humans no longer have rulers over them as it was in the beginning. They will have want for nothing because all is provided in abundance when that comes.

He is not a magician or wizard. “Jesus” was His body here on Earth. “Jesus” had the power of the Creator indwelled in Him, not human level magic tricks. Magic can't part seas or make food appear out of nowhere. Magic is not the same energy used for healing either, that energy is for healing only. Magic requires payment because it is not the spirit of Christ that grants those wishes. When you do money magic you are taking that energy from others. Plenty of spirits are willing to take your offerings and go steal that energy to give to you as long as you keep paying the spirit. Same with all the other types of magic. It's energy theft.

Christ is actually very simple. He does not require offerings. He does not require payment. He doesn't ask much at all other than to love Him the Creator, yourself and others in a way that does not create debt, steal from or harm others. When you are with Him He provides you what you need because He knows before you even know you need it.

If you knew Him you would know the difference in the powers. He went all over the world 2000 years ago. All four corners. There are records in the East and Americas too of a Great Elder Brother Teacher for all humankind appearing then.
RIOTCOKE

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06/07/2023 02:55 PM
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Re: Was Jesus a Wizard?’ Is Actually a Serious Scholarly Question
no he wasn't.
Anonymous Coward
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06/07/2023 03:04 PM
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Re: Was Jesus a Wizard?’ Is Actually a Serious Scholarly Question
He is the dragon, he replaced God and wrote the bible is his own honor.
Anonymous Coward
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06/07/2023 03:17 PM
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Re: Was Jesus a Wizard?’ Is Actually a Serious Scholarly Question
"Be as wise as serpents and as gentle as doves." This is telling Christians to study and be familiar with magic and rituals. That magic is still being used today by the Satanic "elite." Know your enemy and their tactics and turn their energy against them. Mainstream Christian churches don't want you to be wise. They warn against watching Harry Potter or even studying anything deemed occult. This is a grave mistake.
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06/07/2023 03:18 PM
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Re: Was Jesus a Wizard?’ Is Actually a Serious Scholarly Question


[link to www.youtube.com (secure)]

:whitestonelegend:
Anonymous Coward
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06/07/2023 03:33 PM
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Re: Was Jesus a Wizard?’ Is Actually a Serious Scholarly Question
Tiny brains want to know. No the Lord is creator of all, so to the mis guided he would seem to be as you suggest.





GLP