The TRUTH about the fed pivot. It's NOT what you're being told. | |
okie1
(OP) User ID: 85001902 United States 03/24/2023 09:10 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Bonus factoid: If you want a really simple explanation of why all fed interventions are deflationary in the long run, it's because the basic underlying principle behind our monetary system doesn't change. That principle is that all monetary expansion creates a greater liability than the sum of new money injected into the money supply. For example, someone borrows 300k to buy a house, but over the course of the loan has to pay back 600k, meaning 300k was put into circulation, but over the course of the loan 600k will come out. ALL fed interventions obey this principle long term. All fed interventions only delay the inevitable, but at a cost of making the inevitable more devastating when it finally catches up. Again, we're currently paying the price for things they started doing 15 years ago. okie |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 85347143 Canada 03/24/2023 09:21 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
okie1
(OP) User ID: 85001902 United States 03/24/2023 11:13 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Watch for Biden to Authorise the Defence Production act Quoting: Anonymous Coward 85347143 This will tell you which direction we are headed That would only solve the problem if there were a huge international demand for our products like in WWI and WWII. If other countries either didn't have the money or capital to purchase weapons from us, or if we needed all of them ourselves, the problem would be the same, that the government couldn't maintain the debt service. It's commonly believed that war always equals profit, but the US was in a very unique position in the first half of the 20th century. Technology had globalized the economy enough that we could provide timely exports to Europe, but not to the point where invasion of the mainland US was a viable possibility. I.e. ships carrying cargo could make the passage in a week or two, but enemy missiles and bombers didn't have nearly enough range to come close to us. The Japanese tried island hopping to Alaska, but it didn't work because the conditions were too extreme that far north. So we had this endless demand for our output, and the natural resources to make it happen, but were untouchable by the destruction that wrecked the rest of the entire world. And we got to do that twice, where we incurred no losses, relatively speaking, but got to reap unbelievable benefits. That wasn't the norm before, and in the age of hypersonic missiles our remoteness no longer protects us. So the idea that a war will save us from our debt is probably very hopeful at best. That certainly doesn't mean there won't be a war though. The collapse of the dollar supply is what's causing geopolitical turmoil right now, and will ultimately likely lead to all out global war. But also famines, depressions, and revolutions. The dedollarization of the world is going to be the shitstorm of the ages. Last Edited by okie1 on 03/24/2023 11:15 PM okie |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 80047662 United States 03/24/2023 11:16 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 80600233 United States 03/24/2023 11:25 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Watch for Biden to Authorise the Defence Production act Quoting: Anonymous Coward 85347143 This will tell you which direction we are headed That would only solve the problem if there were a huge international demand for our products like in WWI and WWII. If other countries either didn't have the money or capital to purchase weapons from us, or if we needed all of them ourselves, the problem would be the same, that the government couldn't maintain the debt service. It's commonly believed that war always equals profit, but the US was in a very unique position in the first half of the 20th century. Technology had globalized the economy enough that we could provide timely exports to Europe, but not to the point where invasion of the mainland US was a viable possibility. I.e. ships carrying cargo could make the passage in a week or two, but enemy missiles and bombers didn't have nearly enough range to come close to us. The Japanese tried island hopping to Alaska, but it didn't work because the conditions were too extreme that far north. So we had this endless demand for our output, and the natural resources to make it happen, but were untouchable by the destruction that wrecked the rest of the entire world. And we got to do that twice, where we incurred no losses, relatively speaking, but got to reap unbelievable benefits. That wasn't the norm before, and in the age of hypersonic missiles our remoteness no longer protects us. So the idea that a war will save us from our debt is probably very hopeful at best. That certainly doesn't mean there won't be a war though. The collapse of the dollar supply is what's causing geopolitical turmoil right now, and will ultimately likely lead to all out global war. But also famines, depressions, and revolutions. The dedollarization of the world is going to be the shitstorm of the ages. ^this. Shitstorm of the ages. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 85504663 United States 03/24/2023 11:26 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
FiX11
User ID: 85486801 United States 03/24/2023 11:26 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 81409807 United States 03/24/2023 11:33 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | The coming war with russia/china is to cover up the fiscal robbery of the u.s by the banks which was allowed by corrupt politicians who got their cuts. Second off, they want to replace the current system with digital and to do that they have to destroy the old system and they are doing it on purpose with no intention of paying off the debt. The whole thing was a massive scam and setup from the start so the globalist through the IMF would end up owning entire countries, land, resources, people etc because corrupt politicians didn't spend responsibly. It was the plan for the last 40 years, maybe the last 80.. They won't do anything to stop or slow the financial collapse, this is the big one. At the end of the day all of us want to be holding tangible assets in land, precious metals, food enough for 2 years to ride this out and ways to defend yourself and your family because it will get bad enough where neighbours will be robbing neighbours and we may not have a stable 911/police system in place to deal with it. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 80600233 United States 03/24/2023 11:38 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | The coming war with russia/china is to cover up the fiscal robbery of the u.s by the banks which was allowed by corrupt politicians who got their cuts. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 81409807 Second off, they want to replace the current system with digital and to do that they have to destroy the old system and they are doing it on purpose with no intention of paying off the debt. The whole thing was a massive scam and setup from the start so the globalist through the IMF would end up owning entire countries, land, resources, people etc because corrupt politicians didn't spend responsibly. It was the plan for the last 40 years, maybe the last 80.. They won't do anything to stop or slow the financial collapse, this is the big one. At the end of the day all of us want to be holding tangible assets in land, precious metals, food enough for 2 years to ride this out and ways to defend yourself and your family because it will get bad enough where neighbours will be robbing neighbours and we may not have a stable 911/police system in place to deal with it. The shitstorm they will unleash may be beyond their control to steer. At least I hope so. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 85206072 United States 03/24/2023 11:39 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Wow. I never thought that I would see that as a possibility. We are truly in uncharted territory! Thanks for the education. |
vEyeSea
User ID: 84008384 United States 03/24/2023 11:39 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I did. What I want to know is where the interest paid on the debt by the govt goes. In q4 the us paid over 200 billion. This year, due to rising rates the number could be 1 trillion. That should bail out the banks, but I guarantee you, the combined market cap of these banks won't go up that much if any at all. To learn who rules over you, find out who you are not allowed to criticize. When the government is wrong, it's dangerous to be right. The secret of freedom lies in educating people, whereas the secret of tyranny is in keeping them ignorant. -Robspierre |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 85206072 United States 03/24/2023 11:41 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
vEyeSea
User ID: 84008384 United States 03/24/2023 11:50 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Watch for Biden to Authorise the Defence Production act Quoting: Anonymous Coward 85347143 This will tell you which direction we are headed To produce what? Bomb, artillary, tanks, planes etc. Lockheed is already producing f16s, without an order. To learn who rules over you, find out who you are not allowed to criticize. When the government is wrong, it's dangerous to be right. The secret of freedom lies in educating people, whereas the secret of tyranny is in keeping them ignorant. -Robspierre |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 84997028 Germany 03/24/2023 11:54 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 85206072 United States 03/24/2023 11:55 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Watch for Biden to Authorise the Defence Production act Quoting: Anonymous Coward 85347143 This will tell you which direction we are headed To produce what? Bomb, artillary, tanks, planes etc. Lockheed is already producing f16s, without an order. So no industry retrofit as in WW2? GM will not be producing M1A1s. And, only the current weapons manufacturers would be commanded to increase production? |
okie1
(OP) User ID: 85001902 United States 03/25/2023 12:25 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Fed is punching the accelerator and slamming the brakes at the same time. Breakdown imminent. Quoting: FiX11 I'm not sure I understand that analogy. I wouldn't characterize making collateralized loans as punching the accelerator. More like throwing excess weight overboard. Actually I think a good analogy would be a plane dumping fuel to gain altitude, knowing that it needs that fuel to reach its destination. The dumping of the fuel is essential to delaying the inevitable crash, but makes it all the more inevitable. okie |
okie1
(OP) User ID: 85001902 United States 03/25/2023 12:29 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | "If rates don't come down the the money supply doesn't begin expanding soon, I think there's a very real chance the government could actually default." Quoting: Anonymous Coward 85206072 Wow. I never thought that I would see that as a possibility. We are truly in uncharted territory! Thanks for the education. Yea the looming threat of a government default is almost meme at this point, but what people don't realize is that the situation is completely different now than in times past. It's no longer a question of should we, but can we. okie |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 84899513 Norway 03/25/2023 12:30 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | "If rates don't come down the the money supply doesn't begin expanding soon, I think there's a very real chance the government could actually default." Quoting: Anonymous Coward 85206072 Wow. I never thought that I would see that as a possibility. We are truly in uncharted territory! Thanks for the education. Yea the looming threat of a government default is almost meme at this point, but what people don't realize is that the situation is completely different now than in times past. It's no longer a question of should we, but can we. Turn the language into physics |
okie1
(OP) User ID: 85001902 United States 03/25/2023 12:32 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I did. What I want to know is where the interest paid on the debt by the govt goes. In q4 the us paid over 200 billion. This year, due to rising rates the number could be 1 trillion. That should bail out the banks, but I guarantee you, the combined market cap of these banks won't go up that much if any at all. Banks, money markets, pensions, the fed's balance sheet, foreign central banks that hold US bonds, hedge funds, credit unions, and I'm sure the list goes on and on. Right down to mom and pop's account at the treasury. okie |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 40392033 United States 03/25/2023 12:35 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | The only way we get deflation is if giv does not raise the debt ceiling and the Fed keeps hiking. I would bet against both of those. QE, inflation, and several trillion dollar platinum coins prior to cbdc is the future as far as I can see. You seem to know more about it than me though but I just don't follow this deflation logic. |
okie1
(OP) User ID: 85001902 United States 03/25/2023 12:37 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | The coming war with russia/china is to cover up the fiscal robbery of the u.s by the banks which was allowed by corrupt politicians who got their cuts. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 81409807 Second off, they want to replace the current system with digital and to do that they have to destroy the old system and they are doing it on purpose with no intention of paying off the debt. The whole thing was a massive scam and setup from the start so the globalist through the IMF would end up owning entire countries, land, resources, people etc because corrupt politicians didn't spend responsibly. It was the plan for the last 40 years, maybe the last 80.. They won't do anything to stop or slow the financial collapse, this is the big one. At the end of the day all of us want to be holding tangible assets in land, precious metals, food enough for 2 years to ride this out and ways to defend yourself and your family because it will get bad enough where neighbours will be robbing neighbours and we may not have a stable 911/police system in place to deal with it. I would say it's fair to make the blanket statement that all US military expansion currently is driven by the singular motive to incorporate new economies into the western banking system, and thereby find new sources of credit and demand for credit. Very much like the latter Roman empire in the sense that the military expansion is required to sustain spending, and especially in the sense that expansions have turned into net losses. That is, we can push into a country like the Ukraine or Syria, and must, but once there we no longer have the resources to wage an actual war. I think we're about to start giving up territory. okie |
DovesofPeace
User ID: 80855553 United States 03/25/2023 12:39 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Thread: 2023 is the year the money failed - update last page (Page 8) The rich know the price of everything but the value of nothing because for them the value is the price. - Hugh Nibley [link to www.offeroftrust.com (secure)] About: "I solve problems" Listen to this. Promise you won't regret it: [link to youtu.be (secure)] Truth Overcomes All Bonds |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 46624553 United States 03/25/2023 12:39 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
DovesofPeace
User ID: 80855553 United States 03/25/2023 12:39 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Watch for Biden to Authorise the Defence Production act Quoting: Anonymous Coward 85347143 This will tell you which direction we are headed That would only solve the problem if there were a huge international demand for our products like in WWI and WWII. If other countries either didn't have the money or capital to purchase weapons from us, or if we needed all of them ourselves, the problem would be the same, that the government couldn't maintain the debt service. It's commonly believed that war always equals profit, but the US was in a very unique position in the first half of the 20th century. Technology had globalized the economy enough that we could provide timely exports to Europe, but not to the point where invasion of the mainland US was a viable possibility. I.e. ships carrying cargo could make the passage in a week or two, but enemy missiles and bombers didn't have nearly enough range to come close to us. The Japanese tried island hopping to Alaska, but it didn't work because the conditions were too extreme that far north. So we had this endless demand for our output, and the natural resources to make it happen, but were untouchable by the destruction that wrecked the rest of the entire world. And we got to do that twice, where we incurred no losses, relatively speaking, but got to reap unbelievable benefits. That wasn't the norm before, and in the age of hypersonic missiles our remoteness no longer protects us. So the idea that a war will save us from our debt is probably very hopeful at best. That certainly doesn't mean there won't be a war though. The collapse of the dollar supply is what's causing geopolitical turmoil right now, and will ultimately likely lead to all out global war. But also famines, depressions, and revolutions. The dedollarization of the world is going to be the shitstorm of the ages. ^this. Shitstorm of the ages. Biblical The rich know the price of everything but the value of nothing because for them the value is the price. - Hugh Nibley [link to www.offeroftrust.com (secure)] About: "I solve problems" Listen to this. Promise you won't regret it: [link to youtu.be (secure)] Truth Overcomes All Bonds |
okie1
(OP) User ID: 85001902 United States 03/25/2023 12:41 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | So the best way to make money right now would be to secure a Fed backed loan for construction or other asset creation. These should be tossed out like candy right now. Right? Quoting: Anonymous Coward 84997028 Like taking out an FHA backed building loan? Any credit taken out right now is the same as shorting the dollar, and that sounds like a very dangerous proposition if you're expecting the money supply to continue contracting. People who currently believe the fed is doing QE or about to start would probably make the argument that shorting the dollar is the right move, but like I pointed out they're for the most part operating on false assumptions regarding the fed's balance sheet. If my fears/suspicions are correct, and the money supply will continue to contract, servicing debt could become extremely painful, especially at such high rates like we have now. The average mortgage rate is still over 6%. okie |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 84069824 03/25/2023 12:43 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 79654927 United States 03/25/2023 12:52 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
okie1
(OP) User ID: 85001902 United States 03/25/2023 01:05 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | If QE is deflationary and we're dealing with the consequences of QE now, then why is the Fed fighting inflation by raising rates which is theoretically causing disinflation through the mechanism I think you're describing. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 40392033 The only way we get deflation is if giv does not raise the debt ceiling and the Fed keeps hiking. I would bet against both of those. QE, inflation, and several trillion dollar platinum coins prior to cbdc is the future as far as I can see. You seem to know more about it than me though but I just don't follow this deflation logic. THAT is a big gnarly can of worms. That's the paradox that has been faking out experienced investors for the last year. They've been thinking that we're in a 1970s stagflationary economy, when in fact we're in more of a 1930s deflationary economy. There always a real increase in CPI during monetary downturns, because the cost of money goes up, according to basic supply and demand principles. Less cash to go around, the more expensive it is to get. I.e. you have to give more to get the same nominal amount as before. That's the deflationary part. But the inflationary part is that the cost of doing business goes up, and that's especially true in an economy that runs entirely on debt. This is just the first time that the supply chain destruction has been so bad that CPI has gone up in nominal terms during a deflationary downturn. Things always become more unaffordable in real terms during deflationary downturns, at least to those who live on a budget. But usually there's still a steep decline in nominal CPI around the same time as the decline in asset prices. The decline in CPI just doesn't keep up with the decline in wages. So the basic economic pressures driving these conditions are the same, but they're just so extreme that they're actually forcing CPI up nominally while the money supply contracts. And it's worse because interest rates keep going up, because our economy runs on debt, and because every part of the economy is already fully leveraged. That's prevented falling asset prices from turning the money growth back around and bringing rates down, and the high rates make doing business extremely expensive, which makes everything you need to live more expensive. When you account for the deflation of the money supply, especially in terms of how far below trend it is with credit expansion, the inflation is actually through the roof. okie |
okie1
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