thunder the perfect mind

THE GNOSTIC SOCIETY LIBRARY

The Nag Hammadi Library

The Thunder, Perfect Mind

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Translated by George W. MacRae


I was sent forth from the power,

and I have come to those who reflect upon me,
and I have been found among those who seek after me.
Look upon me, you who reflect upon me,
and you hearers, hear me.
You who are waiting for me, take me to yourselves.
And do not banish me from your sight.
And do not make your voice hate me, nor your hearing.
Do not be ignorant of me anywhere or any time. Be on your guard!
Do not be ignorant of me.
For I am the first and the last.
I am the honored one and the scorned one.
I am the whore and the holy one.
I am the wife and the virgin.
I am <the mother> and the daughter.
I am the members of my mother.
I am the barren one
and many are her sons.
I am she whose wedding is great,
and I have not taken a husband.
I am the midwife and she who does not bear.
I am the solace of my labor pains.
I am the bride and the bridegroom,
and it is my husband who begot me.
I am the mother of my father
and the sister of my husband
and he is my offspring.
I am the slave of him who prepared me.
I am the ruler of my offspring.
But he is the one who begot me before the time on a birthday.
And he is my offspring in (due) time,
and my power is from him.
I am the staff of his power in his youth,
and he is the rod of my old age.
And whatever he wills happens to me.
I am the silence that is incomprehensible
and the idea whose remembrance is frequent.
I am the voice whose sound is manifold
and the word whose appearance is multiple.
I am the utterance of my name.
Why, you who hate me, do you love me,
and hate those who love me?
You who deny me, confess me,
and you who confess me, deny me.
You who tell the truth about me, lie about me,
and you who have lied about me, tell the truth about me.
You who know me, be ignorant of me,
and those who have not known me, let them know me.
For I am knowledge and ignorance.
I am shame and boldness.
I am shameless; I am ashamed.
I am strength and I am fear.
I am war and peace.
Give heed to me.
I am the one who is disgraced and the great one.
Give heed to my poverty and my wealth.
Do not be arrogant to me when I am cast out upon the earth,
and you will find me in those that are to come.
And do not look upon me on the dung-heap
nor go and leave me cast out,
and you will find me in the kingdoms.
And do not look upon me when I am cast out among those who
are disgraced and in the least places,
nor laugh at me.
And do not cast me out among those who are slain in violence.
But I, I am compassionate and I am cruel.
Be on your guard!
Do not hate my obedience
and do not love my self-control.
In my weakness, do not forsake me,
and do not be afraid of my power.
For why do you despise my fear
and curse my pride?
But I am she who exists in all fears
and strength in trembling.
I am she who is weak,
and I am well in a pleasant place.
I am senseless and I am wise.
Why have you hated me in your counsels?
For I shall be silent among those who are silent,
and I shall appear and speak,
Why then have you hated me, you Greeks?
Because I am a barbarian among the barbarians?
For I am the wisdom of the Greeks
and the knowledge of the barbarians.
I am the judgement of the Greeks and of the barbarians.
I am the one whose image is great in Egypt
and the one who has no image among the barbarians.
I am the one who has been hated everywhere
and who has been loved everywhere.
I am the one whom they call Life,
and you have called Death.
I am the one whom they call Law,
and you have called Lawlessness.
I am the one whom you have pursued,
and I am the one whom you have seized.
I am the one whom you have scattered,
and you have gathered me together.
I am the one before whom you have been ashamed,
and you have been shameless to me.
I am she who does not keep festival,
and I am she whose festivals are many.
I, I am godless,
and I am the one whose God is great.
I am the one whom you have reflected upon,
and you have scorned me.
I am unlearned,
and they learn from me.
I am the one that you have despised,
and you reflect upon me.
I am the one whom you have hidden from,
and you appear to me.
But whenever you hide yourselves,
I myself will appear.
For whenever you appear,
I myself will hide from you.
Those who have [...] to it [...] senselessly [...].
Take me [... understanding] from grief.
and take me to yourselves from understanding and grief.
And take me to yourselves from places that are ugly and in ruin,
and rob from those which are good even though in ugliness.
Out of shame, take me to yourselves shamelessly;
and out of shamelessness and shame,
upbraid my members in yourselves.
And come forward to me, you who know me
and you who know my members,
and establish the great ones among the small first creatures.
Come forward to childhood,
and do not despise it because it is small and it is little.
And do not turn away greatnesses in some parts from the smallnesses,
for the smallnesses are known from the greatnesses.
Why do you curse me and honor me?
You have wounded and you have had mercy.
Do not separate me from the first ones whom you have known.
And do not cast anyone out nor turn anyone away
[...] turn you away and [... know] him not.
[...].
What is mine [...].
I know the first ones and those after them know me.
But I am the mind of [...] and the rest of [...].
I am the knowledge of my inquiry,
and the finding of those who seek after me,
and the command of those who ask of me,
and the power of the powers in my knowledge
of the angels, who have been sent at my word,
and of gods in their seasons by my counsel,
and of spirits of every man who exists with me,
and of women who dwell within me.
I am the one who is honored, and who is praised,
and who is despised scornfully.
I am peace,
and war has come because of me.
And I am an alien and a citizen.
I am the substance and the one who has no substance.
Those who are without association with me are ignorant of me,
and those who are in my substance are the ones who know me.
Those who are close to me have been ignorant of me,
and those who are far away from me are the ones who have known me.
On the day when I am close to you, you are far away from me,
and on the day when I am far away from you, I am close to you.
[I am ...] within.
[I am ...] of the natures.
I am [...] of the creation of the spirits.
[...] request of the souls.
I am control and the uncontrollable.
I am the union and the dissolution.
I am the abiding and I am the dissolution.
I am the one below,
and they come up to me.
I am the judgment and the acquittal.
I, I am sinless,
and the root of sin derives from me.
I am lust in (outward) appearance,
and interior self-control exists within me.
I am the hearing which is attainable to everyone
and the speech which cannot be grasped.
I am a mute who does not speak,
and great is my multitude of words.
Hear me in gentleness, and learn of me in roughness.
I am she who cries out,
and I am cast forth upon the face of the earth.
I prepare the bread and my mind within.
I am the knowledge of my name.
I am the one who cries out,
and I listen.
I appear and [...] walk in [...] seal of my [...].
I am [...] the defense [...].
I am the one who is called Truth
and iniquity [...].
You honor me [...] and you whisper against me.
You who are vanquished, judge them (who vanquish you)
before they give judgment against you,
because the judge and partiality exist in you.
If you are condemned by this one, who will acquit you?
Or, if you are acquitted by him, who will be able to detain you?
For what is inside of you is what is outside of you,
and the one who fashions you on the outside
is the one who shaped the inside of you.
And what you see outside of you, you see inside of you;
it is visible and it is your garment.
Hear me, you hearers
and learn of my words, you who know me.
I am the hearing that is attainable to everything;
I am the speech that cannot be grasped.
I am the name of the sound
and the sound of the name.
I am the sign of the letter
and the designation of the division.
And I [...].
(3 lines missing)
[...] light [...].
[...] hearers [...] to you
[...] the great power.
And [...] will not move the name.
[...] to the one who created me.
And I will speak his name.
Look then at his words
and all the writings which have been completed.
Give heed then, you hearers
and you also, the angels and those who have been sent,
and you spirits who have arisen from the dead.
For I am the one who alone exists,
and I have no one who will judge me.
For many are the pleasant forms which exist in numerous sins,
and incontinencies,
and disgraceful passions,
and fleeting pleasures,
which (men) embrace until they become sober
and go up to their resting place.
And they will find me there,
and they will live,
and they will not die again.


Selection made from James M. Robinson, ed., The Nag Hammadi Library, revised edition. HarperCollins, San Francisco, 1990.


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this is a heavy piece of writing here, it is just too long for people to read or too strange or what?

Too long, could you paraphrase please?

Thunder and Lightening = The DARK SIDE of our consciousness in this FALLEN world/cosmos....The KLIPAH...DARK SIDE FEMALE/DARK SIDE OF MATTER...


The so called thunder perfect mind is not so "perfect" in truth...

sorry, i don't even think i know what paraphrase means.

It's a MESS actually..It's a WASTELAND...

that's what i liked about it, it was real. hardcore. the way i understand things. this is definitly not a piece for everybody.

That's from Isis actually under one name or another. She's had a few over the ages. And yes, she's part of the whole "witness" picture.

But that writing isn't about the witness. If it were, we all wouldn't be here, now would we?

This is about the HEART, not the Mind.

why would we not be here?
alot of this, i find also in the book of isaiah, here and there about the dozion.

That writing could be said for what is in all human beings to a degree. We are complex beings. The only difference is ...some know this more than others. Some of delved into their complexities more than others. We have souls. Souls are infinite.

I should add ...all human beings as long as you change the gender. lol From female to male.

If you know the age old story of Isis, you'd easily see what she's saying above. It perfectly fits the story I've seen. She's had a REALLY hard go of it and indeed was once cast down upon the Earth here for quite some time. She's fit all those descriptions over the ages, once the Queen, then hidden from sight. Once "O Mighty Isis", powered with her anger and then beaten, grieved and near exhaustion.

It's definitely her though.

If you go through the Callia, Enjliou story I posted at the clubhouse, you can overlay that story over what you posted here and more clearly see what's being said.

Yes, to varied degrees, but only Isis embodies that whole picture in her life over the ages. Too, that's why she's going to be sitting in such a high estate over the creation.

I would have to disagree with you . This writting concerns the duality that exists between the mind and soul . It's very complex and requires a great depth of understanding . How does one achieve the perfect mind ? By becoming filled with the spirit of the father and putting the soul to death .

i may understand what is being said better than some might think, i did not post this lightly. i see isis, dofzion, kali, cailleach, all the many "legends", all as the same one. there's only one, but many incarnations and names. maybe people try to get too complicated sometimes.

"poured out his/her soul unto death" somewhere in the 40's ch. of isaiah. i'm really not as dumb as some people think. (not sayin this you AC)

Sorry folks...But the Gnostic stuff is the SATAN/DARK SIDE...Most of it is about stealing our life force...
Bringing us to the DARK SIDE which we should NOT see..
We should be putting it BACK TO SLEEP in our consciousness...NOT WAKING IT UP......

Now a few years ago...I would have defended it...I was all into it myself...
But then I found out what is really going on..


So no longer do I have anything to do with those Gnostic scriptures.....

I believe all existence. Everything that has ever happened in our collective history ..and is going on right now and all that will happen is contained within us. In our souls. In that part that lives on after death. If we could tap into that we could remember all that has ever been.

it is difficult ..i believe it can be done however.

the history of our species is contained better by our souls than by our books. That is why with all the books in the world of the hundreds of millions and billions there is still so much confusion. But when you know something down to your soul there is no doubt. it is just a matter of tapping into it ...it is difficult though. Too much doubt in this world. In our abilities.

so you say. what do ya think about the part in revelation that says the apostles lied? yes, the ones in the book as at the end of rev there is the curse of anyone who adds to or takes away from the book. the point is, before you go slinging cap. letters, maybe you should rethink about the flaws in the bible. to think it would not be infiltrated by the enemy is naive. if your disgression is not up to discerning, so be it.

the books have all been compromised. it can be very frustrating and confusing, and damaging even. i look for the common threads all thru the world and time, that repeat over and over. and then one does have to go by their heart, and question their motives, and always be ready to refine, recalibrate, for getting stuck won't get no one far. and humility goes a long way, to realize how lacking we truly are.

Very good ...yes there are threads and little bits and pieces of truth everywhere ..and it can come from anywhere...books, tv, movies, words people use in real life and the net and even a billboard you see on a highway. It can come from so many places at any given time. I have noticed when you are looking hard for an answer and if you are patient and answer will pop up in what appears shear coincidence from anywhere.

The threads of life are woven in a very beautiful way. And i like the way you said humility. Yea humility is important but sometimes we have to point out what we did even if it sounds egotistical ...sometimes what seems like ego is just a fact that must be told. For various reasons. But yea ...humility is most important.

I like the way you think. And you seem a little rebellious. Rebellion can be a good thing if you use it against the right forces to rebel. Dont rebel against allies.

how does one achieve the perfect mind? you say we should become filled with the spirit, but i say we are already filled with the spirit. the ones who make the difference are those who acknowledge its presence. putting the soul to death really doesn't make sense either. you must put perception to death. to eliminate perception is to eliminate your boundaries, your definitions, your knowledge. to eliminate knowledge is to abide in HIS presence as we were created to be.

you can't have one without the other. to awaken to GOD in his truest form is to allow satan to affect you in his truest form. you're tuning into a frequency in which they both happen to exist.

yah, eliminating perception. there was a guy named krishnamurti who wrote a little book called what is, and he talked about that. it's so true, perception can change from day to day, for me that's where the humility comes in, not to be attached too yesterdays mind out of pride, for fear of making a mistake. like yesterday my whole perception about pain changed, it transcended me, and i sure needed it.

I believe the soul and spirit are the same thing ...they are one. Different words for the same thing. They have been divided by the forces of evil that like to divide everything. Division is the one thing that is most destroying life on this planet. We need unity not division. We have to find common ground ...the very idea that there is division even in the spirit-soul world is very disturbing. Soul is good ...spirit is good. They are one. Why did God give us both if He didnt want us to have them both ?

well said. ya have to deal with what is, there is a purpose for satan, and none of us don't have some satan in us, if we can't see that, we can't overcome it. if you run from something, you can't master it. i've been to the bottom, and it bout killed me, i felt like the chick on the exorcist. i'm grateful that God didn't abandon me as i was on the threshing floor of hell. know the enemy...for he is us!

If you built a house all by yourself...not a great house ..not a poor house ...but a medium house ..and someone asked you ..."Did you build that house ?" and you answer "yes i did" ...were you being boastful or were you just stating the fact ?

Humility is good but even humility should not stand in the way of the truth (facts are the parents of truth) In other words even our humility (which is a very good and important thing) should not stand in the way of truth. Nothing should.

yah, i think soul and spirit are the same star. got me to thinkin..soul to me=mind and heart. and it could also be spirit=God and man that makes a soul. i was thinking before how all humans make up the primal essense of God, the good the bad and the ugly and beautiful. and everything is evolving i think, even God, tho most would disagree with me about that. i may disagree with me about it tomorrow...

I believe it is the animal lower side in us that we are in constant conflict with. And it is our higher reasoning human self that must win in order to create peace within ourselves and around us.

In spiritual circles the animal side is referred to as sin or the devil in scientific circles it is referred to as the "reptilian brain" inside of us.

The similarities and commonalities that both science and spirituality share is where the truth can be found.

People dont usually want to look for commonalities or similarities because they are prideful and self righteous and angry (for various reasons)and other things. But its all such a waste of time and energy and takes us away from the truth.

but sometimes the truth does have to be hidden for practical reasons. maybe that's why God is so mysterious. and besides, who would believe strange truths? and if one knows the truth about ones self, there really is no reason to say anything, cause it already is.