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Is The Rapture in 2 Thessalonians 2:3?

 
Seek^

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02/05/2023 02:26 AM
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Re: Is The Rapture in 2 Thessalonians 2:3?
Context. The word rapture existed before The satanic rapture doctrines.

You are really quite decieved
 Quoting: FHL(C)


I guarantee that if we go and get the references for the word rapture that you just quoted. It will have nothing to do with The satanic rapture doctrines.

Why are you being so deceitful?

You know that liars don't get in
 Quoting: FHL(C)

Please go get them. But before you do, read this. I’m reluctant to cast pearls before swine though.




The notion that the Pre-Tribulation Rapture specifically and the Rapture in general were an invention of the early 1800’s originating with little Miss MacDonald is quite simply false. Anyone continuing to believe this today in any respect is simply lacking knowledge of history or willfully ignorant of the facts wishing not to acknowledge the truth of the past. In essence, individuals who would like to change history to fit their own beliefs.
“Rapture”, in the context of eschatology, is an English word derived from the Latin rapio, (or variant spelling rapere) “caught up” as found in the Vulgate rendering of
1 Thessalonians 4:17.

The Oxford English Dictionary provides two pages describing the history of usage of the word in English back to as early as the 1400’s. From the 17th century onwards, the word is attested as rapture with similar senses to the older form rapt. The OED provides the etymology as from Latin rapere: to seize, especially abduct; it likens the words capture and rapture. Of particular note are the various distinctions involving either literal or figurative transport of body or emotions to heaven or from one place to another on earth.

1400: Þe visions of seynt poul wan he was rapt into paradys. — Vernon manuscript in Old English Miscellany 223
1412-20: In this wyse were the brethren twayne To heauen rapt, as thes poetes fayne. — John Lydgate, Chronicle of Troy 2:14
1432-50: Helyas was rapte in this tyme. — Ranulf Higden, Polychronicon, tr. John Trevisa, Rolls Series 3:25
1526: Whan he was rapt & taken vp in to the thyrde heuen. — William Bond, Pilgrim of Perfection, (Wynkyn de Worde, 1531): 25
1610: To this place … were Enoch, Elias and Paul rapt up fore their deaths. — John Guillim, A Display of Heraldry 3:2
1667: Rapt in a Chariot drawn by fiery Steeds. — John Milton, Paradise Lost 3:522
1866: He was rapt up on high and saw S. Peter. — Charles Kingsley, Hereward the Wake 1:12

Doctrinal history
The concept of the rapture, in connection with premillennialism, was expressed by the American Puritan father and son Increase and Cotton Mather. They held to the idea that believers would be caught up in the air, followed by judgments on the earth and then the millennium. The term rapture was used by Philip Doddridge (1738) and John Gill (1748) in their New Testament commentaries, with the idea that believers would be caught up prior to judgment on the earth and Jesus’ Second Coming. The concept of a pre-tribulation rapture was articulated by Baptist Morgan Edwards in an essay published in 1788 in Philadelphia.

Further back,,
The Shepherd of Hermes is one such ancient document (c. 90AD)

First, much of what is recorded in these texts does not agree with the teachings of the scripture. That fact alone establishes the complete set of manuscripts of no doctrinal value. But, setting aside that detail for the moment in order to analyze the contents of these documents, we learn one of the records makes mention of a vision the “shepherd” had of a giant raging beast. This animal made an attempt to charge the shepherd presumably to cause him great harm. The shepherd, however was able to escape by relying on God for protection.

The next vision he encounters is that of a beautiful maiden, identified by the shepherd himself as the Church. She in turn identifies the creature as an illustration of the Great Tribulation to come, and tells him he escaped it by putting his full trust in God. She then gives him the responsibility of informing all other believers they can do the same, but only if they too put their full trust in the Lord.

This is a very brief look and oversimplification of the content of those manuscripts. But since they have been accepted to have been written in the second century, it is concrete proof that the “concept” of the Rapture in general (as referring to an escape from a future time of Great Tribulation) and conditions connected to participating in that specific escape existed outside of Biblical text, but inside the body of the Church, to within approximately one hundred years of the physical death of Jesus Christ.

Even if the doctrine is in error, it was a belief of a portion of the membership of the Church, regardless of how few, documented to as early as the second century and there exists earlier evidence. Anyone choosing to deny the clear content of these articles, is blind wishing to remain so. You can honestly choose to believe and thereby continue to teach the doctrine to be in error, but you cannot deny that it was believed by a portion of the early Church. It existed, that is a fact.

There are numerous websites on the Internet that continue to expound the myth that the teaching of the Rapture was not even conceived of until the late 19th or early 20th century. Anyone denying the existence of this doctrine by even the smallest percentage of the early Church should be held suspect concerning any and all doctrines that are put forth by that person or organization.

Further, further back that even that,,,
The Post-Tribulationist overlooks completely the purpose of 2nd Thessalonians.

2 Thessalonians 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
The day of Christ mentioned here in verse two is not the Rapture. Nor is Paul informing the Church of Thessalonica in this particular passage that they had not missed the coming of Lord Jesus that they had been waiting for, as instructed. They had been informed by false teachers infiltrating the church that the day of Christ was at hand. In other words it was nigh, very close and that they should be preparing for it. What’s wrong with this picture, you might ask?

The problem was, the false teachers in question were Post-Tribulationists, and were teaching the day of Christos or the day of the Messiah (his coming in power and great glory at the end of The Great Tribulation Period) was at hand. Therefore, by the church’s understanding from the teachings of Paul in his first letter, they concluded they were inside the Great Tribulation Period and had missed “the gathering” of verse one as well as the teachings of Paul in 1st Thess. 4:16-18 (or the Rapture, that they knew would proceed the Great Tribulation).

The Thessalonians were the first “recorded” Partial Rapturists, although their were others. It was a common teaching of the day. If the teachings they were being exposed to were accurate, they had been “left behind” when the Lord had come to gather his bride. This can be easily seen in verse one by the manner in which Paul introduces the explanation to come.

Paul :
Now we beseech you, brethren, (the believers of the church, and by the way, the lost were not being addressed, they are not brethren)

by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, (the Glorious Appearing of which they understood Paul to teach would end the Great Tribulation, but were now being instructed was closing in on the world)

and by our gathering together unto him, (the gathering of the Bride, which in consideration to Paul‘s earlier teachings of 1st Thessalonians 4:13-18 concerning our being “caught up together“, they were now being informed by false teachers they had missed).

The mention of both comings in reverse order (much like Luke’s description of a more complex sequence in chapter 17:28-36 of his Gospel) is repeated in the following verses. They were confused, and it was Paul’s intention to re-educate them drawing from the lessons of his first letter, as well as his prior visit.

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
Let no man deceive you by any means: (self explanatory)
for that day (the day of Christ, Christos, The day of The Messiah or conquering King of Israel)

shall not come, (self explanatory)

except (until)

there come a falling away (of which some modern Christians consider to be believers falling away from the truth of the gospel or faithfulness to the Lord, still others believe it could be an obscure mention of the Rapture itself)

first (self explanatory),

and that man of sin (the anti-christ)

be revealed, (self explanatory)

the son of perdition (further identifying the anti-christ).

The key to understanding this passage is in the correct identification of the English phrase “falling way“, translated from the Greek word apostasia.

One, but only one, of the contextual meanings inside the definition is “a departure”. That reference inside the definition has prompted some Pre-Tribulationists to entertain the possibility that the proper translation is just that. Literally a departure, meaning the Pre-Tribulation Rapture of the Bride. After all, such an interpretation would agree with their timing of the doctrine.

However, accepting the translation “a departure” at face value and inferring it to be referring directly to the “catching up” of the Bride at the time of the Rapture is a selection by the individual of the portion of the definition that appeals to them based on their current beliefs. The actual definition is as follows.

apostasia – the feminine form of the same, (in the neutral, apostasion) – defection (or departure) from the truth (the state of) “apostasy” falling away, to forsake.

So, within the definition we do have an understanding of a departure being conveyed, but only in reference to a defection or forsaking of, the truth. The structure of the sentence itself, nor the definition of the word in the original Greek, make claim inside the context of the passage to a departure as some Pre-Tribulationists suggest. This view must first be inferred, then in turn interpreted as such by the reader. That being the case, it would be more likely that the traditional belief of the church experiencing a departure from the truth or the occurrence of a falling away from the faith just before the Rapture, would be correct. That is, if it were not for another little known definitionary fact.

apostasia – the feminine form of the same, (in the neutral, apostasion)

“apostasia” is the feminine form of its counterpart “apostasion” which is the neutral of the same. Namely, the same subject matter. In the feminine it retains its own definitions of defection, departure, falling away, or forsake, but only within the subject matter of its neutral counterpart, establishing the context of the passage. The neutral form possesses the same attributes, but in a manner active to the subject matter it “specifically” defines.

apostasion – neutral – something separative, specifically divorce, – (writing of) divorcement.

With the word apostasia being by definition “the same as” apostasion in feminine form, the action being discussed in this passage is “in the feminine” a falling away, the state of apostasy, to forsake, a defection from the “Truth” (in subject, the coming of the Lord), but in a setting of divorce defined by its counterpart, apostasion.

The only state that could be being described in relation to this passage is the Partial Rapture’s teaching of the unfaithful and disobedient members of the church being divorced by their Bridegroom the Lord Jesus Christ at the time he comes for his faithful Bride. That would cause the majority of the Church of God to be “Left Behind” at the time of the Rapture, to enter into and endure (and to be martyred inside) the Great Tribulation Period.

So, the “falling away” is speaking of the Coming of the Lord, but is the record of his rejection of the portion of the church who is in violation of its marriage vows, and committing adultery against its Bridegroom.

Paul is teaching them that just as they understood the Rapture of the Bride (or catching up) will proceed the Glorious Appearing, the revealing of the anti-christ and the beginning of The Great Tribulation itself, it will unfortunately also result in the divorce of the unfaithful as well. He is actually confirming the teaching of The Partial Rapture as valid, but reassures them those who remain obedient to the Lord will not be included in the rejection.

The largest majority of the modern church feels, (And I was actually told this next statement by an obvious opponent of these teachings) “That is the single most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. The scripture doesn’t say anything even remotely similar to that anywhere. You would have to torture a passage of scripture to the point of absurdity to get it to “confess” to such a thing.”

Oh, Really ? !!

Revelation 2:22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.

Keep in mind, adultery can only be committed against ones own spouse. The individuals being addressed by Jesus are espoused (or engaged) to Christ.
2nd Corinthians 11:1-3.

2 Corinthians 11:1 Would to God ye could bear with me a little in my folly: and indeed bear with me. 2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ. 3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

Luke himself warned us of this in his account of the Olivet Dicourse as taught by our Lord in Luke 21:34-36.

Luke 21:34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and [the] cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. 35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. 36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

Hebrews 9:28 (actually 27&28) is the only passage in the scripture that mentions "the second time" he will appear. He has already appeared once, (I think we can all agree) in the flesh, born of a virgin, "Merry Christmas" (sort of, e-mail me for an explanation).

Hebrews 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

The problem with believing in "only" a post-tribulation appearance is that the scripture details that appearance as distinctly different. At the appearance of Jesus "the second time" (described by scripture, "you can look it up") he will only appear to those that are looking for him. At the final appearance (the glorious appearance) at the end of the great tribulation period, he will be seen by every single living person on the entire globe.

Second Appearance (The Rapture)
Hebrews 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear "the second time" without sin unto salvation.

Final Appearance (The Glorious Appearing)
Revelation 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

Two distinct and separate comings. The gospels of Matthew, Mark and Luke detail the Great Tribulation in the Olivet Discourse, and describe the final appearance in this manner, "after the tribulation of those days". However, all three allude to the possibility of avoiding this terrible time, but Luke pins it down for us as a warning.

Luke 21:34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. 35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. 36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

One final thought, Jesus discribed two distinct comings of himself to the world by his own mouth.

Luke 17:20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: 21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you. 22 And he said unto the disciples, The days will come, when ye shall desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, and ye shall not see it.

“One of the days of the Son of man” is a direct indication of more than one, confirmed by the rest of the scripture in its descriptions as two, beginning and ending the time known as The Great Tribulation Period.

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Seek^

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02/05/2023 02:31 AM
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Re: Is The Rapture in 2 Thessalonians 2:3?
Context. The word rapture existed before The satanic rapture doctrines.

You are really quite decieved
 Quoting: FHL(C)

Lol, it’s just comical now. You bring absolutely zero to the table, nothing. Why?

Because you have nothing scriptural nor factual to bring. Again, sickening to witness such depravity and shame on you for confusing the gullible such as Kate. It’s truly sad to witness.
 Quoting: Seek^


I don’t even know him, see you were wrong there. I study scripture and came out of everything you still believe in, it’s what I was taught at church for many years, it’s false doctrine. But I’m not arguing with you, I gave you some things to look at, the rest is in YHWH’S hands. Blessings to you.
 Quoting: -Kate-

No I’m not wrong Kate, I saw your posts in that abomination of a thread that was pinned earlier with over 94 pages of pitiful, disgusting heresies by this FHC person that you were blindly parroting and agreeing with in that thread as you’re attempting to do now in this thread. It’s sad friend. Wish you’d wake up. You’re on the wrong side of truth regarding the Rapture and God’s promise. Wish you the best.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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02/05/2023 03:27 AM
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Re: Is The Rapture in 2 Thessalonians 2:3?
2Thessalonians 2:3

Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,

Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the departure comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,

Anonymous Coward
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02/05/2023 07:38 AM
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Re: Is The Rapture in 2 Thessalonians 2:3?
God loves us more than we can understand. It is His will that we all return to Him, however that cannot occur when one is stained and blemished..which includes the vast majority.

In His mercy, He has offered three 'raptures' so that more can come to Him in humble and reverent praise.

Those who have ironed out their 'wrinkles', by applying His Word at every level of their life are the '24 elders'(first fruits), a small and dedicated band who will be lifted and made immortal prior to the reign of the AC. (24 is symbolic not literal)

Many of those who find themselves living during the tribulation, will understand that it is imperative to resist the call to be 'marked' and will take to their hiding place (tabernacle) in the wilderness where they will repent of their iniquities and be lifted out when the 'event' of 1 Corinthians 52 (wonderfully transformed) occurs.. during the tribulation period.

Then, towards the end of the tribulation, the wrath of God will remove the Heavens and Earth and immediately prior to this, the last remaining 'saints' will be 'lifted'. Those who were stubborn to the end, but finally recognized that His will supersedes space and time and fall on their knees in repentance. All else are the dross of the refiner and will accompany the AC (deceiver) into the pit for the period of the Millennial Reign of Jesus Christ. (1000 years..the last prophetic day of the Creation).

All praise, glory and honor to our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, through whose love and mercy is the offering of His Grace and the remission of our sin.
Achduke7

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02/05/2023 08:33 AM

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Re: Is The Rapture in 2 Thessalonians 2:3?
Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,

2Thessalonians 2:3




IS THE RAPTURE IN 2 THESSALONIANS 2:3?

Tom's Perspectives
by Thomas Ice

Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes
first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,
—2 Thessalonians 2:3

I believe that there is a strong possibility that 2 Thessalonians 2:3 is speaking of the
rapture. What do I mean? Some pretribulationists, like myself, think that the Greek
noun apostasia, usually translated “apostasy,” is a reference to the rapture and should be
translated “departure.”
Thus, this passage would be saying that the day of the Lord
will not come until the rapture comes before it. If apostasia is a reference to a physical
departure, then 2 Thessalonians 2:3 is strong evidence for pretribulationism.

THE MEANING OF APOSTASIA

The Greek noun apostasia is only used twice in the New Testament. In addition to 2
Thessalonians 2:3, it occurs in Acts 21:21 where, speaking of Paul, it is said, “that you
are teaching all the J**s who are among the Gentiles to forsake (apostasia)Moses.” The
word is a Greek compound of apo “ from” and istemi “stand.” Thus, it has the core
meaning of “away from” or “departure.” The Liddell and Scott Greek Lexicon defines
apostasia first as “defection, revolt;” then secondly as “departure, disappearance.”1
Gordon Lewis explains how the verb from which the noun apostasia is derived supports
the basic meaning of departure in the following:

The verb may mean to remove spatially. There is little reason then to deny
that the noun can mean such a spatial removal or departure. Since the noun
is used only one other time in the New Testament of apostasy from Moses
(Acts 21:21), we can hardly conclude that its Biblical meaning is necessarily
determined. The verb is used fifteen times in the New Testament. Of these
fifteen, only three have anything to do with a departure from the faith (Luke
8;13; 1 Tim. 4:1; Heb 3:12). The word is used for departing from iniquity (2
Tim. 2:19), from ungodly men(1 Tim. 6:5), from the temple (Luke 2:27), from
the body (2 Cor. 12:8), and from persons (Acts 12:10; Luke 4:13). 2

It is with full assurance of proper exegetical study and with complete confidence in the
original languages,” concludes Daniel Davey, “that the word meaning of apostasia is
defined as departure.
”3 Paul Lee Tan adds the following:

What precisely does Paul mean when he says that “the falling away” (2:3)
must come before the tribulation?
The definite article “the” denotes that this
will be a definite event, an event distinct from the appearance of the Man of
Sin. The Greek word for “falling away”, taken by itself, does not mean
religious apostasy or defection. Neither does the word mean “to fall,” as the
Greeks have another word for that. [pipto, I fall; TDI] The best translation of
the word is “to depart.” The apostle Paul refers here to a definite event which
he calls “the departure,” and which will occur just before the start of the
tribulation. This is the rapture of the church.


...

Continued:

[link to digitalcommons.liberty.edu (secure)]

.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 85205742



So the prerequisite to the rapture is that the rapture happens first? Makes complete sense. How did I miss this infallible logic.

2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and [by] our gathering together unto him,

2Th 2:1 is the harpazo.

2Th 2:3 are the prerequisites before the harpazo happens.

Last Edited by Achduke7 on 02/05/2023 08:39 AM
Achduke
FHL(C)

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02/05/2023 08:35 AM

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Re: Is The Rapture in 2 Thessalonians 2:3?
Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,

2Thessalonians 2:3




IS THE RAPTURE IN 2 THESSALONIANS 2:3?

Tom's Perspectives
by Thomas Ice

Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes
first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,
—2 Thessalonians 2:3

I believe that there is a strong possibility that 2 Thessalonians 2:3 is speaking of the
rapture. What do I mean? Some pretribulationists, like myself, think that the Greek
noun apostasia, usually translated “apostasy,” is a reference to the rapture and should be
translated “departure.”
Thus, this passage would be saying that the day of the Lord
will not come until the rapture comes before it. If apostasia is a reference to a physical
departure, then 2 Thessalonians 2:3 is strong evidence for pretribulationism.

THE MEANING OF APOSTASIA

The Greek noun apostasia is only used twice in the New Testament. In addition to 2
Thessalonians 2:3, it occurs in Acts 21:21 where, speaking of Paul, it is said, “that you
are teaching all the J**s who are among the Gentiles to forsake (apostasia)Moses.” The
word is a Greek compound of apo “ from” and istemi “stand.” Thus, it has the core
meaning of “away from” or “departure.” The Liddell and Scott Greek Lexicon defines
apostasia first as “defection, revolt;” then secondly as “departure, disappearance.”1
Gordon Lewis explains how the verb from which the noun apostasia is derived supports
the basic meaning of departure in the following:

The verb may mean to remove spatially. There is little reason then to deny
that the noun can mean such a spatial removal or departure. Since the noun
is used only one other time in the New Testament of apostasy from Moses
(Acts 21:21), we can hardly conclude that its Biblical meaning is necessarily
determined. The verb is used fifteen times in the New Testament. Of these
fifteen, only three have anything to do with a departure from the faith (Luke
8;13; 1 Tim. 4:1; Heb 3:12). The word is used for departing from iniquity (2
Tim. 2:19), from ungodly men(1 Tim. 6:5), from the temple (Luke 2:27), from
the body (2 Cor. 12:8), and from persons (Acts 12:10; Luke 4:13). 2

It is with full assurance of proper exegetical study and with complete confidence in the
original languages,” concludes Daniel Davey, “that the word meaning of apostasia is
defined as departure.
”3 Paul Lee Tan adds the following:

What precisely does Paul mean when he says that “the falling away” (2:3)
must come before the tribulation?
The definite article “the” denotes that this
will be a definite event, an event distinct from the appearance of the Man of
Sin. The Greek word for “falling away”, taken by itself, does not mean
religious apostasy or defection. Neither does the word mean “to fall,” as the
Greeks have another word for that. [pipto, I fall; TDI] The best translation of
the word is “to depart.” The apostle Paul refers here to a definite event which
he calls “the departure,” and which will occur just before the start of the
tribulation. This is the rapture of the church.


...

Continued:

[link to digitalcommons.liberty.edu (secure)]

.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 85205742



So the prerequisite to the rapture is that the rapture happens first? Makes complete sense. How did I miss this infallible logic.

2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and [by] our gathering together unto him,
 Quoting: Achduke7


Satanic rapture doctrines deluded Rapturists don't like clear incisive

It spois their narrative of complex delusion and lies
YAHshua the sound of His Name in English, YAH is short form of YHVH,
bible.Prayerbook.Praisebook downloads
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Seek^

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Re: Is The Rapture in 2 Thessalonians 2:3?
Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,

2Thessalonians 2:3




IS THE RAPTURE IN 2 THESSALONIANS 2:3?

Tom's Perspectives
by Thomas Ice

Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes
first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,
—2 Thessalonians 2:3

I believe that there is a strong possibility that 2 Thessalonians 2:3 is speaking of the
rapture. What do I mean? Some pretribulationists, like myself, think that the Greek
noun apostasia, usually translated “apostasy,” is a reference to the rapture and should be
translated “departure.”
Thus, this passage would be saying that the day of the Lord
will not come until the rapture comes before it. If apostasia is a reference to a physical
departure, then 2 Thessalonians 2:3 is strong evidence for pretribulationism.

THE MEANING OF APOSTASIA

The Greek noun apostasia is only used twice in the New Testament. In addition to 2
Thessalonians 2:3, it occurs in Acts 21:21 where, speaking of Paul, it is said, “that you
are teaching all the J**s who are among the Gentiles to forsake (apostasia)Moses.” The
word is a Greek compound of apo “ from” and istemi “stand.” Thus, it has the core
meaning of “away from” or “departure.” The Liddell and Scott Greek Lexicon defines
apostasia first as “defection, revolt;” then secondly as “departure, disappearance.”1
Gordon Lewis explains how the verb from which the noun apostasia is derived supports
the basic meaning of departure in the following:

The verb may mean to remove spatially. There is little reason then to deny
that the noun can mean such a spatial removal or departure. Since the noun
is used only one other time in the New Testament of apostasy from Moses
(Acts 21:21), we can hardly conclude that its Biblical meaning is necessarily
determined. The verb is used fifteen times in the New Testament. Of these
fifteen, only three have anything to do with a departure from the faith (Luke
8;13; 1 Tim. 4:1; Heb 3:12). The word is used for departing from iniquity (2
Tim. 2:19), from ungodly men(1 Tim. 6:5), from the temple (Luke 2:27), from
the body (2 Cor. 12:8), and from persons (Acts 12:10; Luke 4:13). 2

It is with full assurance of proper exegetical study and with complete confidence in the
original languages,” concludes Daniel Davey, “that the word meaning of apostasia is
defined as departure.
”3 Paul Lee Tan adds the following:

What precisely does Paul mean when he says that “the falling away” (2:3)
must come before the tribulation?
The definite article “the” denotes that this
will be a definite event, an event distinct from the appearance of the Man of
Sin. The Greek word for “falling away”, taken by itself, does not mean
religious apostasy or defection. Neither does the word mean “to fall,” as the
Greeks have another word for that. [pipto, I fall; TDI] The best translation of
the word is “to depart.” The apostle Paul refers here to a definite event which
he calls “the departure,” and which will occur just before the start of the
tribulation. This is the rapture of the church.


...

Continued:

[link to digitalcommons.liberty.edu (secure)]

.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 85205742



So the prerequisite to the rapture is that the rapture happens first? Makes complete sense. How did I miss this infallible logic.

2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and [by] our gathering together unto him,
 Quoting: Achduke7


Satanic rapture doctrines deluded Rapturists don't like clear incisive

It spois their narrative of complex delusion and lies
 Quoting: FHL(C)

You are without a doubt, 100% a shill. Truth is completely unimportant to you as you’ve proven in this thread and every thread you start or post in regarding the promised removal of Christ’s bride.

You make completely baseless claims as you’ve done in this thread and people like myself prove you wrong and instead of recognizing and admitting you’re wrong and change, you gloss over, ignore, and continue spreading lies.

You truly are an agent of Satan, you need to be exposed for who you are. You have no truth in you whatsoever.
Anonymous Coward
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02/05/2023 09:26 AM
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Re: Is The Rapture in 2 Thessalonians 2:3?
Sadly you may be right.
For His Love seems to be a cultist stuck in its dogma.
It has no brotherly love for fellow? brothers and cares not for edification.
Judethz

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02/05/2023 09:31 AM
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Re: Is The Rapture in 2 Thessalonians 2:3?
Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the departure comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,

2Thessalonians 2:3
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 85205742


judec Why are you spreading lies OP by misleadingly quoting one verse on its own to suggest that that verse is referring to the Rapture? Anyone reading the whole passage knows that you have set out to deceive them.

2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
2Th 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
Judethz

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United Kingdom
02/05/2023 09:32 AM
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Re: Is The Rapture in 2 Thessalonians 2:3?
takeheed blackcat For those of you who would like to know more about the Rapture here are some interesting and well written Chick illustrated tracts on this important subject.

kitty WHERE DID THEY GO?... [link to www.chick.com (secure)]

kitty HERE HE COMES!... [link to www.chick.com (secure)]

kitty LETS FLY AWAY!... [link to www.chick.com (secure)]

kitty THINGS TO COME?... [link to www.chick.com (secure)]

1Th 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
FHL(C)

User ID: 84821127
China
02/05/2023 09:39 AM

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Re: Is The Rapture in 2 Thessalonians 2:3?
takeheed blackcat For those of you who would like to know more about the Rapture here are some interesting and well written Chick illustrated tracts on this important subject.

kitty WHERE DID THEY GO?... [link to www.chick.com (secure)]

kitty HERE HE COMES!... [link to www.chick.com (secure)]

kitty LETS FLY AWAY!... [link to www.chick.com (secure)]

kitty THINGS TO COME?... [link to www.chick.com (secure)]

1Th 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
 Quoting: Judethz


Satanic rapture doctrines are lies dear

Doesn't matter who decived brother Jack to publish them
YAHshua the sound of His Name in English, YAH is short form of YHVH,
bible.Prayerbook.Praisebook downloads
[link to www.docdroid.net (secure)]
[link to www.docdroid.net (secure)]
[link to www.docdroid.net (secure)]
FHL(C)

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China
02/05/2023 09:43 AM

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Re: Is The Rapture in 2 Thessalonians 2:3?
Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the departure comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,

2Thessalonians 2:3
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 85205742


judec Why are you spreading lies OP by misleadingly quoting one verse on its own to suggest that that verse is referring to the Rapture? Anyone reading the whole passage knows that you have set out to deceive them.

2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
2Th 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

 Quoting: Judethz


What is very telling about the satanic rapture doctrines is the level if disagreement, confusion and hostilities between the various flavours of the satanic rapture doctrines
YAHshua the sound of His Name in English, YAH is short form of YHVH,
bible.Prayerbook.Praisebook downloads
[link to www.docdroid.net (secure)]
[link to www.docdroid.net (secure)]
[link to www.docdroid.net (secure)]
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 83156220
Canada
02/05/2023 09:54 AM
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Re: Is The Rapture in 2 Thessalonians 2:3?
Context. The word rapture existed before The satanic rapture doctrines.

You are really quite decieved
 Quoting: FHL(C)

Lol, it’s just comical now. You bring absolutely zero to the table, nothing. Why?

Because you have nothing scriptural nor factual to bring. Again, sickening to witness such depravity and shame on you for confusing the gullible such as Kate. It’s truly sad to witness.
 Quoting: Seek^


I don’t even know him, see you were wrong there. I study scripture and came out of everything you still believe in, it’s what I was taught at church for many years, it’s false doctrine. But I’m not arguing with you, I gave you some things to look at, the rest is in YHWH’S hands. Blessings to you.
 Quoting: -Kate-

No I’m not wrong Kate, I saw your posts in that abomination of a thread that was pinned earlier with over 94 pages of pitiful, disgusting heresies by this FHC person that you were blindly parroting and agreeing with in that thread as you’re attempting to do now in this thread. It’s sad friend. Wish you’d wake up. You’re on the wrong side of truth regarding the Rapture and God’s promise. Wish you the best.
 Quoting: Seek^


Titus 3:9
Avoid Dissension

9 But avoid foolish disputes, genealogies, contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and useless.
Seek^

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02/05/2023 09:59 AM
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Re: Is The Rapture in 2 Thessalonians 2:3?
...

Lol, it’s just comical now. You bring absolutely zero to the table, nothing. Why?

Because you have nothing scriptural nor factual to bring. Again, sickening to witness such depravity and shame on you for confusing the gullible such as Kate. It’s truly sad to witness.
 Quoting: Seek^


I don’t even know him, see you were wrong there. I study scripture and came out of everything you still believe in, it’s what I was taught at church for many years, it’s false doctrine. But I’m not arguing with you, I gave you some things to look at, the rest is in YHWH’S hands. Blessings to you.
 Quoting: -Kate-

No I’m not wrong Kate, I saw your posts in that abomination of a thread that was pinned earlier with over 94 pages of pitiful, disgusting heresies by this FHC person that you were blindly parroting and agreeing with in that thread as you’re attempting to do now in this thread. It’s sad friend. Wish you’d wake up. You’re on the wrong side of truth regarding the Rapture and God’s promise. Wish you the best.
 Quoting: Seek^


Titus 3:9
Avoid Dissension

9 But avoid foolish disputes, genealogies, contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and useless.
 Quoting: -Kate-

Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them.
Ephesians 5:11
Achduke7

User ID: 84039964
United States
02/05/2023 10:01 AM

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Re: Is The Rapture in 2 Thessalonians 2:3?
...

He has offered three 'raptures' so that more can come to Him in humble and reverent praise.

...

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 81728238


This is what is wrong with the pre-trib doctrine.

When people see it does not make sense they further add to the their mis-beliefs to explain away the short comings of this erroneous doctrine.

There is only one harpazo, not three. The harpazo happens after the resurrection which is refered by as the 1st resurrection in Rev 20. Christ and the apostles called it the resurrection. It is not the rapture.
Achduke
I hate stupid people

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02/05/2023 10:06 AM
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Re: Is The Rapture in 2 Thessalonians 2:3?
Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,

2Thessalonians 2:3




IS THE RAPTURE IN 2 THESSALONIANS 2:3?

Tom's Perspectives
by Thomas Ice

Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes
first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,
—2 Thessalonians 2:3

I believe that there is a strong possibility that 2 Thessalonians 2:3 is speaking of the
rapture. What do I mean? Some pretribulationists, like myself, think that the Greek
noun apostasia, usually translated “apostasy,” is a reference to the rapture and should be
translated “departure.”
Thus, this passage would be saying that the day of the Lord
will not come until the rapture comes before it. If apostasia is a reference to a physical
departure, then 2 Thessalonians 2:3 is strong evidence for pretribulationism.

THE MEANING OF APOSTASIA

The Greek noun apostasia is only used twice in the New Testament. In addition to 2
Thessalonians 2:3, it occurs in Acts 21:21 where, speaking of Paul, it is said, “that you
are teaching all the J**s who are among the Gentiles to forsake (apostasia)Moses.” The
word is a Greek compound of apo “ from” and istemi “stand.” Thus, it has the core
meaning of “away from” or “departure.” The Liddell and Scott Greek Lexicon defines
apostasia first as “defection, revolt;” then secondly as “departure, disappearance.”1
Gordon Lewis explains how the verb from which the noun apostasia is derived supports
the basic meaning of departure in the following:

The verb may mean to remove spatially. There is little reason then to deny
that the noun can mean such a spatial removal or departure. Since the noun
is used only one other time in the New Testament of apostasy from Moses
(Acts 21:21), we can hardly conclude that its Biblical meaning is necessarily
determined. The verb is used fifteen times in the New Testament. Of these
fifteen, only three have anything to do with a departure from the faith (Luke
8;13; 1 Tim. 4:1; Heb 3:12). The word is used for departing from iniquity (2
Tim. 2:19), from ungodly men(1 Tim. 6:5), from the temple (Luke 2:27), from
the body (2 Cor. 12:8), and from persons (Acts 12:10; Luke 4:13). 2

It is with full assurance of proper exegetical study and with complete confidence in the
original languages,” concludes Daniel Davey, “that the word meaning of apostasia is
defined as departure.
”3 Paul Lee Tan adds the following:

What precisely does Paul mean when he says that “the falling away” (2:3)
must come before the tribulation?
The definite article “the” denotes that this
will be a definite event, an event distinct from the appearance of the Man of
Sin. The Greek word for “falling away”, taken by itself, does not mean
religious apostasy or defection. Neither does the word mean “to fall,” as the
Greeks have another word for that. [pipto, I fall; TDI] The best translation of
the word is “to depart.” The apostle Paul refers here to a definite event which
he calls “the departure,” and which will occur just before the start of the
tribulation. This is the rapture of the church.


...

Continued:

[link to digitalcommons.liberty.edu (secure)]

.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 85205742


Pre-Tribulation Rapture is a false doctrine. Not taught or mentioned anywhere in historical Christian texts before John Darby began pushing it to the masses around 1831. Is there a rapture in the bible? Of course. Will it happen Pre-Tribulation? Not according to the bible. Don't be trying to twist words to mean what you want etc...
I hate stupid people
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 83786557
United States
02/05/2023 10:11 AM
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Re: Is The Rapture in 2 Thessalonians 2:3?
Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,

2Thessalonians 2:3




IS THE RAPTURE IN 2 THESSALONIANS 2:3?

Tom's Perspectives
by Thomas Ice

Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes
first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,
—2 Thessalonians 2:3

I believe that there is a strong possibility that 2 Thessalonians 2:3 is speaking of the
rapture. What do I mean? Some pretribulationists, like myself, think that the Greek
noun apostasia, usually translated “apostasy,” is a reference to the rapture and should be
translated “departure.”
Thus, this passage would be saying that the day of the Lord
will not come until the rapture comes before it. If apostasia is a reference to a physical
departure, then 2 Thessalonians 2:3 is strong evidence for pretribulationism.

THE MEANING OF APOSTASIA

The Greek noun apostasia is only used twice in the New Testament. In addition to 2
Thessalonians 2:3, it occurs in Acts 21:21 where, speaking of Paul, it is said, “that you
are teaching all the J**s who are among the Gentiles to forsake (apostasia)Moses.” The
word is a Greek compound of apo “ from” and istemi “stand.” Thus, it has the core
meaning of “away from” or “departure.” The Liddell and Scott Greek Lexicon defines
apostasia first as “defection, revolt;” then secondly as “departure, disappearance.”1
Gordon Lewis explains how the verb from which the noun apostasia is derived supports
the basic meaning of departure in the following:

The verb may mean to remove spatially. There is little reason then to deny
that the noun can mean such a spatial removal or departure. Since the noun
is used only one other time in the New Testament of apostasy from Moses
(Acts 21:21), we can hardly conclude that its Biblical meaning is necessarily
determined. The verb is used fifteen times in the New Testament. Of these
fifteen, only three have anything to do with a departure from the faith (Luke
8;13; 1 Tim. 4:1; Heb 3:12). The word is used for departing from iniquity (2
Tim. 2:19), from ungodly men(1 Tim. 6:5), from the temple (Luke 2:27), from
the body (2 Cor. 12:8), and from persons (Acts 12:10; Luke 4:13). 2

It is with full assurance of proper exegetical study and with complete confidence in the
original languages,” concludes Daniel Davey, “that the word meaning of apostasia is
defined as departure.
”3 Paul Lee Tan adds the following:

What precisely does Paul mean when he says that “the falling away” (2:3)
must come before the tribulation?
The definite article “the” denotes that this
will be a definite event, an event distinct from the appearance of the Man of
Sin. The Greek word for “falling away”, taken by itself, does not mean
religious apostasy or defection. Neither does the word mean “to fall,” as the
Greeks have another word for that. [pipto, I fall; TDI] The best translation of
the word is “to depart.” The apostle Paul refers here to a definite event which
he calls “the departure,” and which will occur just before the start of the
tribulation. This is the rapture of the church.


...

Continued:

[link to digitalcommons.liberty.edu (secure)]

.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 85205742


Pre-Tribulation Rapture is a false doctrine. Not taught or mentioned anywhere in historical Christian texts before John Darby began pushing it to the masses around 1831. Is there a rapture in the bible? Of course. Will it happen Pre-Tribulation? Not according to the bible. Don't be trying to twist words to mean what you want etc...
 Quoting: I hate stupid people


Your name reveals your ignorance. You're just regurgitating
the Darby myth as if he was the first to come up with it.

Apostle Paul was.
Seek^

User ID: 84855065
United States
02/05/2023 10:13 AM
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Re: Is The Rapture in 2 Thessalonians 2:3?
Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,

2Thessalonians 2:3




IS THE RAPTURE IN 2 THESSALONIANS 2:3?

Tom's Perspectives
by Thomas Ice

Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes
first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,
—2 Thessalonians 2:3

I believe that there is a strong possibility that 2 Thessalonians 2:3 is speaking of the
rapture. What do I mean? Some pretribulationists, like myself, think that the Greek
noun apostasia, usually translated “apostasy,” is a reference to the rapture and should be
translated “departure.”
Thus, this passage would be saying that the day of the Lord
will not come until the rapture comes before it. If apostasia is a reference to a physical
departure, then 2 Thessalonians 2:3 is strong evidence for pretribulationism.

THE MEANING OF APOSTASIA

The Greek noun apostasia is only used twice in the New Testament. In addition to 2
Thessalonians 2:3, it occurs in Acts 21:21 where, speaking of Paul, it is said, “that you
are teaching all the J**s who are among the Gentiles to forsake (apostasia)Moses.” The
word is a Greek compound of apo “ from” and istemi “stand.” Thus, it has the core
meaning of “away from” or “departure.” The Liddell and Scott Greek Lexicon defines
apostasia first as “defection, revolt;” then secondly as “departure, disappearance.”1
Gordon Lewis explains how the verb from which the noun apostasia is derived supports
the basic meaning of departure in the following:

The verb may mean to remove spatially. There is little reason then to deny
that the noun can mean such a spatial removal or departure. Since the noun
is used only one other time in the New Testament of apostasy from Moses
(Acts 21:21), we can hardly conclude that its Biblical meaning is necessarily
determined. The verb is used fifteen times in the New Testament. Of these
fifteen, only three have anything to do with a departure from the faith (Luke
8;13; 1 Tim. 4:1; Heb 3:12). The word is used for departing from iniquity (2
Tim. 2:19), from ungodly men(1 Tim. 6:5), from the temple (Luke 2:27), from
the body (2 Cor. 12:8), and from persons (Acts 12:10; Luke 4:13). 2

It is with full assurance of proper exegetical study and with complete confidence in the
original languages,” concludes Daniel Davey, “that the word meaning of apostasia is
defined as departure.
”3 Paul Lee Tan adds the following:

What precisely does Paul mean when he says that “the falling away” (2:3)
must come before the tribulation?
The definite article “the” denotes that this
will be a definite event, an event distinct from the appearance of the Man of
Sin. The Greek word for “falling away”, taken by itself, does not mean
religious apostasy or defection. Neither does the word mean “to fall,” as the
Greeks have another word for that. [pipto, I fall; TDI] The best translation of
the word is “to depart.” The apostle Paul refers here to a definite event which
he calls “the departure,” and which will occur just before the start of the
tribulation. This is the rapture of the church.


...

Continued:

[link to digitalcommons.liberty.edu (secure)]

.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 85205742


Pre-Tribulation Rapture is a false doctrine. Not taught or mentioned anywhere in historical Christian texts before John Darby began pushing it to the masses around 1831. Is there a rapture in the bible? Of course. Will it happen Pre-Tribulation? Not according to the bible. Don't be trying to twist words to mean what you want etc...
 Quoting: I hate stupid people

Amazing how ingrained this false assumption is above in so many, they just parrot it with no real thought thanks in part to people like FHC. It’s like clockwork witnessing the brainwashing that like a disease, sows confusion to a very simple and clear scriptural promise by God repeated ad nauseam throughout scripture.

The devil is truly efficient and never ceases working to confuse, lead astray, and destroy.
FHL(C)

User ID: 84821127
China
02/05/2023 10:22 AM

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Re: Is The Rapture in 2 Thessalonians 2:3?
Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,

2Thessalonians 2:3




IS THE RAPTURE IN 2 THESSALONIANS 2:3?

Tom's Perspectives
by Thomas Ice

Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes
first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,
—2 Thessalonians 2:3

I believe that there is a strong possibility that 2 Thessalonians 2:3 is speaking of the
rapture. What do I mean? Some pretribulationists, like myself, think that the Greek
noun apostasia, usually translated “apostasy,” is a reference to the rapture and should be
translated “departure.”
Thus, this passage would be saying that the day of the Lord
will not come until the rapture comes before it. If apostasia is a reference to a physical
departure, then 2 Thessalonians 2:3 is strong evidence for pretribulationism.

THE MEANING OF APOSTASIA

The Greek noun apostasia is only used twice in the New Testament. In addition to 2
Thessalonians 2:3, it occurs in Acts 21:21 where, speaking of Paul, it is said, “that you
are teaching all the J**s who are among the Gentiles to forsake (apostasia)Moses.” The
word is a Greek compound of apo “ from” and istemi “stand.” Thus, it has the core
meaning of “away from” or “departure.” The Liddell and Scott Greek Lexicon defines
apostasia first as “defection, revolt;” then secondly as “departure, disappearance.”1
Gordon Lewis explains how the verb from which the noun apostasia is derived supports
the basic meaning of departure in the following:

The verb may mean to remove spatially. There is little reason then to deny
that the noun can mean such a spatial removal or departure. Since the noun
is used only one other time in the New Testament of apostasy from Moses
(Acts 21:21), we can hardly conclude that its Biblical meaning is necessarily
determined. The verb is used fifteen times in the New Testament. Of these
fifteen, only three have anything to do with a departure from the faith (Luke
8;13; 1 Tim. 4:1; Heb 3:12). The word is used for departing from iniquity (2
Tim. 2:19), from ungodly men(1 Tim. 6:5), from the temple (Luke 2:27), from
the body (2 Cor. 12:8), and from persons (Acts 12:10; Luke 4:13). 2

It is with full assurance of proper exegetical study and with complete confidence in the
original languages,” concludes Daniel Davey, “that the word meaning of apostasia is
defined as departure.
”3 Paul Lee Tan adds the following:

What precisely does Paul mean when he says that “the falling away” (2:3)
must come before the tribulation?
The definite article “the” denotes that this
will be a definite event, an event distinct from the appearance of the Man of
Sin. The Greek word for “falling away”, taken by itself, does not mean
religious apostasy or defection. Neither does the word mean “to fall,” as the
Greeks have another word for that. [pipto, I fall; TDI] The best translation of
the word is “to depart.” The apostle Paul refers here to a definite event which
he calls “the departure,” and which will occur just before the start of the
tribulation. This is the rapture of the church.


...

Continued:

[link to digitalcommons.liberty.edu (secure)]

.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 85205742



So the prerequisite to the rapture is that the rapture happens first? Makes complete sense. How did I miss this infallible logic.

2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and [by] our gathering together unto him,
 Quoting: Achduke7


Satanic rapture doctrines deluded Rapturists don't like clear incisive

It spois their narrative of complex delusion and lies
 Quoting: FHL(C)

You are without a doubt, 100% a shill. Truth is completely unimportant to you as you’ve proven in this thread and every thread you start or post in regarding the promised removal of Christ’s bride.

You make completely baseless claims as you’ve done in this thread and people like myself prove you wrong and instead of recognizing and admitting you’re wrong and change, you gloss over, ignore, and continue spreading lies.

You truly are an agent of Satan, you need to be exposed for who you are. You have no truth in you whatsoever.
 Quoting: Seek^


You are seriously deluded. Repentance will help.

Blessings in YAHshua
YAHshua the sound of His Name in English, YAH is short form of YHVH,
bible.Prayerbook.Praisebook downloads
[link to www.docdroid.net (secure)]
[link to www.docdroid.net (secure)]
[link to www.docdroid.net (secure)]
FHL(C)

User ID: 84821127
China
02/05/2023 10:29 AM

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Re: Is The Rapture in 2 Thessalonians 2:3?
Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,

2Thessalonians 2:3




IS THE RAPTURE IN 2 THESSALONIANS 2:3?

Tom's Perspectives
by Thomas Ice

Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes
first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,
—2 Thessalonians 2:3

I believe that there is a strong possibility that 2 Thessalonians 2:3 is speaking of the
rapture. What do I mean? Some pretribulationists, like myself, think that the Greek
noun apostasia, usually translated “apostasy,” is a reference to the rapture and should be
translated “departure.”
Thus, this passage would be saying that the day of the Lord
will not come until the rapture comes before it. If apostasia is a reference to a physical
departure, then 2 Thessalonians 2:3 is strong evidence for pretribulationism.

THE MEANING OF APOSTASIA

The Greek noun apostasia is only used twice in the New Testament. In addition to 2
Thessalonians 2:3, it occurs in Acts 21:21 where, speaking of Paul, it is said, “that you
are teaching all the J**s who are among the Gentiles to forsake (apostasia)Moses.” The
word is a Greek compound of apo “ from” and istemi “stand.” Thus, it has the core
meaning of “away from” or “departure.” The Liddell and Scott Greek Lexicon defines
apostasia first as “defection, revolt;” then secondly as “departure, disappearance.”1
Gordon Lewis explains how the verb from which the noun apostasia is derived supports
the basic meaning of departure in the following:

The verb may mean to remove spatially. There is little reason then to deny
that the noun can mean such a spatial removal or departure. Since the noun
is used only one other time in the New Testament of apostasy from Moses
(Acts 21:21), we can hardly conclude that its Biblical meaning is necessarily
determined. The verb is used fifteen times in the New Testament. Of these
fifteen, only three have anything to do with a departure from the faith (Luke
8;13; 1 Tim. 4:1; Heb 3:12). The word is used for departing from iniquity (2
Tim. 2:19), from ungodly men(1 Tim. 6:5), from the temple (Luke 2:27), from
the body (2 Cor. 12:8), and from persons (Acts 12:10; Luke 4:13). 2

It is with full assurance of proper exegetical study and with complete confidence in the
original languages,” concludes Daniel Davey, “that the word meaning of apostasia is
defined as departure.
”3 Paul Lee Tan adds the following:

What precisely does Paul mean when he says that “the falling away” (2:3)
must come before the tribulation?
The definite article “the” denotes that this
will be a definite event, an event distinct from the appearance of the Man of
Sin. The Greek word for “falling away”, taken by itself, does not mean
religious apostasy or defection. Neither does the word mean “to fall,” as the
Greeks have another word for that. [pipto, I fall; TDI] The best translation of
the word is “to depart.” The apostle Paul refers here to a definite event which
he calls “the departure,” and which will occur just before the start of the
tribulation. This is the rapture of the church.


...

Continued:

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.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 85205742


Pre-Tribulation Rapture is a false doctrine. Not taught or mentioned anywhere in historical Christian texts before John Darby began pushing it to the masses around 1831. Is there a rapture in the bible? Of course. Will it happen Pre-Tribulation? Not according to the bible. Don't be trying to twist words to mean what you want etc...
 Quoting: I hate stupid people

Amazing how ingrained this false assumption is above in so many, they just parrot it with no real thought thanks in part to people like FHC. It’s like clockwork witnessing the brainwashing that like a disease, sows confusion to a very simple and clear scriptural promise by God repeated ad nauseam throughout scripture.

The devil is truly efficient and never ceases working to confuse, lead astray, and destroy.
 Quoting: Seek^


His Word and Truth is not brainwash. Unlike your self deluded projecting. And accusing YHVH children of being of the devil is quite wicked. Calling His Light darkness is a great sin.

Perhaps you might stop with ad hominem accusations. Seriously i feel sad for how decived you are.

Lord YAHshua help them over come the confusion and deception of the satanic rapture doctrines Amen
YAHshua the sound of His Name in English, YAH is short form of YHVH,
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~metanoia~
truth seeks out the wise & the righteous

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02/05/2023 10:29 AM

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Re: Is The Rapture in 2 Thessalonians 2:3?
Pre-Tribulation Rapture is a false doctrine. Not taught or mentioned anywhere in historical Christian texts before John Darby began pushing it to the masses around 1831. Is there a rapture in the bible? Of course. Will it happen Pre-Tribulation? Not according to the bible. Don't be trying to twist words to mean what you want etc...

---------------------

where is rapture mentioned in the Bible

i only see it as emotions
Cayce and Jesus - the Kingdom is within us all
2046 Pole Shift
those who know, do not speak, there is more wisdom in the silence
heaven won't accept impurity
the heartbroken are the most wicked
lead me back to heaven
Anonymous Coward
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02/05/2023 10:36 AM
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Re: Is The Rapture in 2 Thessalonians 2:3?

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The Rapture Comes First, 2 Thessalonians 2:3 – June 14th, 2020

In a teaching out of 2 Thessalonians 2:3, titled, “The Rapture Comes First” Pastor J.D. provides three reasons why what many refer to as “the falling away,” is actually the rapture of the church.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 85205742


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FHL(C)

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02/05/2023 10:44 AM

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Re: Is The Rapture in 2 Thessalonians 2:3?
Pre-Tribulation Rapture is a false doctrine. Not taught or mentioned anywhere in historical Christian texts before John Darby began pushing it to the masses around 1831. Is there a rapture in the bible? Of course. Will it happen Pre-Tribulation? Not according to the bible. Don't be trying to twist words to mean what you want etc...

---------------------

where is rapture mentioned in the Bible

i only see it as emotions
 Quoting: ~metanoia~


Correct and very much so for those invested in the satanic rapture doctrines
YAHshua the sound of His Name in English, YAH is short form of YHVH,
bible.Prayerbook.Praisebook downloads
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Seek^

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02/05/2023 10:49 AM
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Re: Is The Rapture in 2 Thessalonians 2:3?
Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the departure comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,

2Thessalonians 2:3
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 85205742


judec Why are you spreading lies OP by misleadingly quoting one verse on its own to suggest that that verse is referring to the Rapture? Anyone reading the whole passage knows that you have set out to deceive them.

2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
2Th 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

 Quoting: Judethz


What is very telling about the satanic rapture doctrines is the level if disagreement, confusion and hostilities between the various flavours of the satanic rapture doctrines
 Quoting: FHL(C)

You know what also is very telling? Reading through some of your links that are in every response you give here. The first link below each response you give in threads has this on it’s first page and I quote,

“Also that more than 6000 times His Name YHVH has been hidden under capital letters in the KJV , with the words LORD or GOD in capital letters.”

Are we attacking the KJV here?


“The KJV was commissioned by a mason king and translated by believers, masons and undercover jesuits, under guidance of senior masons and its why all masons revere it and have a copy which they swear oaths on in the lodges.”


Again, are we attacking the KJV here? This is looking for two minutes and I’m recognizing some ridiculous notions presented. Why are you equating the KJV Bible with the Freemason Bible?

Does the KJV Bible have illustrated pictures of Egyptian gods and goddesses like a Freemason Bible has? Have you ever looked at a real Freemason Bible? The KJV Bible is not the Freemason Bible. Again, false.

Who do you serve? Do you even know or are you aware?

Seek^

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02/05/2023 10:51 AM
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Re: Is The Rapture in 2 Thessalonians 2:3?
Pre-Tribulation Rapture is a false doctrine. Not taught or mentioned anywhere in historical Christian texts before John Darby began pushing it to the masses around 1831. Is there a rapture in the bible? Of course. Will it happen Pre-Tribulation? Not according to the bible. Don't be trying to twist words to mean what you want etc...

---------------------

where is rapture mentioned in the Bible

i only see it as emotions
 Quoting: ~metanoia~

I’ve explained it in detail in this thread and many times on this site.
Anonymous Coward
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02/05/2023 10:57 AM
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Re: Is The Rapture in 2 Thessalonians 2:3?
Seek you are pushing a man made doctrine that will put many brethren in a dangerous situation and even get them killed when Jacob’s trouble begins. We are given instructions to prepare for this time so we are protected from all of these calamities.

In Egypt, before, God’s people had instructions to cover around the door frame with the blood of a lamb until God moved them from the area. God himself fights the government, Pharaoh. This like all of scripture was a foreshadow for the Second Exodus of God’s people that will be gathered from the 4 corners of the earth. It says in scripture this will be so big that no one will talk about what happened in Egypt again.

Seek, you will have blood on your hands over this. READ YOUR BIBLE, THE PROPHECIES ABOUT TRIBULATION.

Exodus!!!!
Jeremiah
Isaiah
Hosea
Zephananiah is All about Tribulation!
Ezekiel
Revelation is connected to all the Prophets!

Second Exodus - Isaiah 11:11-12

It shall come to pass in that day that the LORD shall set His hand again the second time to recover the remnant of His people … and will assemble the outcasts of Israel … from the four corners of the earth.


All your Rapture doctrine is about Yahusha’s return at the END of Tribulation!!

Your accusations against me where sickening, all one needs to do is search here to see my posts come from my own studies.
Anonymous Coward
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02/05/2023 11:01 AM
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Re: Is The Rapture in 2 Thessalonians 2:3?
Pre-Tribulation Rapture is a false doctrine. Not taught or mentioned anywhere in historical Christian texts before John Darby began pushing it to the masses around 1831. Is there a rapture in the bible? Of course. Will it happen Pre-Tribulation? Not according to the bible. Don't be trying to twist words to mean what you want etc...

---------------------

where is rapture mentioned in the Bible

i only see it as emotions
 Quoting: ~metanoia~


2 Thess 2:3

"Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not
arrive until the departure comes and the man of
lawlessness (sin) is revealed, the son of destruction."


Departure/falling away = Harpazo (Greek)

Verses 3-5 provide a description of the order of events:

1. The removal of the Church; 2. The revealing of the
antichrist; 3. The antichrist presenting himself as God;

And then again in verses 6-8:

1. Holy Spirit sealed Church is holding antichrist back,
though he is still at work now; 2. He is to be revealed in
the right time; 3. The One who holds him back (the Church)
is taken out of the way; 4. The lawless one (antichrist) is
revealed; 5. Jesus returns to destroy antichrist (2nd Coming)

Paul begins by speaking of the Church’s “gathering together
to the Lord Jesus“ and assuring the Thessalonians they had
not missed it. Why had they not missed it? Was Paul really
trying to “comfort” the Thessalonians by saying the entire
church must fall apart first, the antichrist be revealed,
then they will know they are in the tribulation?
Seek^

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02/05/2023 11:03 AM
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Re: Is The Rapture in 2 Thessalonians 2:3?
You are seriously deluded. Repentance will help.

Blessings in YAHshua
 Quoting: FHL(C)

Repentance eh? We need to rename this thread “The FHL(C) revealing” because with every single post you give, the truth is becoming more apparent and revealing as to who you truly are and who you serve. God is not the author of confusion but the only thing you seemingly serve out is purposeful confusion here.
The Opened Scroll

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02/05/2023 11:20 AM

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Re: Is The Rapture in 2 Thessalonians 2:3?
Thread: The Greek word "apostasia" in 2 Thessa-lonians 2:3 is it Rapture or Apostasy?

The Greek word apostasia [Strong's G646] was used twice in the New Testament:

2 Thessa-lonians 2: 23 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away G646 first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Acts 21: 21 And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jaws which are among the Gentiles to forsake G646 Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcised their children, neither to walk after the customs.


If we are to translate the Greek word apostasia to mean rapture in 2 Thessa-lonians 2: 23, then this translation does not make sense in the case of Acts 21: 21 at all.

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 Quoting: The Opened Scroll


Last Edited by The Opened Scroll on 02/05/2023 11:32 AM
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Achduke7

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02/05/2023 11:24 AM

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Re: Is The Rapture in 2 Thessalonians 2:3?

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The Rapture Comes First, 2 Thessalonians 2:3 – June 14th, 2020

In a teaching out of 2 Thessalonians 2:3, titled, “The Rapture Comes First” Pastor J.D. provides three reasons why what many refer to as “the falling away,” is actually the rapture of the church.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 85205742


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 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 84942478


He interjects "That Day" in 2Thess 2:3 is the tribulation which it does not say. "That Day" Refers to the day Christ gathers his people and comes back with vengeance that is dispersed on those who do not obey the Gospel of Christ.

Anyone backing up a couple of verses will see "That Day" is when Christ comes back and gathers his people in the harpazo after they are resurrected.

2Thess 2:1 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come.
Achduke





GLP