How much of Lake Meads water shortage is due to Migration | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 80628293 07/26/2022 12:57 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | No, It’s humans using water. You think these people pouring across the border care about leaving the faucet running. They storm across the border and rape our land of its resources, while the country they come from has plenty of resources. It’s not migration, it’s an invasion. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 80010885 United States 07/26/2022 01:03 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | It certainly does when they all crowd in to drink water whose allocation was set during historically WET years in the early 1920's. Only human morons would craft an entire water delivery system some 40+ years later using OLD and transitory precipitation data, doncha think? There were these people in the SW known as the Anasazi, not anywhere near the numbers now, and they simply had to MOVE AWAY or go extinct, so they did. Circa 13-1500 AD - look it up for lesson in how we ignore history and condemn our future time and again. [link to www.cerescourier.com (secure)] Mega droughts have been verified by science. Carbon dating combined with dendrochronology – the study of tree rings – has determined the Southwest suffered from 14 mega droughts punctured sometimes with a couple years of normal precipitation spanning from 50 to 100 years stretching from 800 to 1600 AD. [link to serc.carleton.edu (secure)] the river is over-allocated. The 1920's – coincidentally the time that the Compact was negotiated was an anomalously wet period with annual flows as high as ~20 million acre-feet (Figures17-18). In contrast, the long-term mean discharge of the river is about 15 million acre-feet, yet 16.5 million are allocated. Furthermore, the river flow is highly variable, and based on historical data and tree ring reconstructions, it seems that decades-long dry periods with flows less than 13-14 million acre-feet may be common. Second, climate projections indicate that the region will become drier in the long-term, and some have suggested that we have already entered an era of steadily declining river flows along the Colorado. [link to www.msn.com (secure)] The date is Feb. 9, 1997, and the man responsible for one of the most egregious environmental follies in human history is sitting at a restaurant in Boyce, Virginia, with the leader of the movement seeking to undo his mistake. Of the hundreds of dams Floyd Dominy green lit during his decade running the Bureau of Reclamation, none are as loathed as his crown jewel, the Glen Canyon Dam. In 1963, Dominy erected the 710-foot (216-meter) tall monument to himself out of ego and concrete, deadening the Colorado River just upstream of the Grand Canyon, drowning more than 250 square miles (648 square kilometers) in the heart of the Colorado Plateau, and inventing Lake Powell in the middle of a sun-baked desert. After a couple of drinks, Dominy asked his dinner guest, Glen Canyon Institute founder Richard Ingebretsen, for an appraisal of the effort to drain Lake Powell. “It’s pretty serious, Mr. Dominy,” Ingebretsen recalled telling him, holding back the seething discontent of the broad coalition he represented. When Ingebretsen described his hypothetical plan to drill through the twin boreholes bestriding Glen Canyon dam, Dominy replied, “Well, you can’t do that. It is 300 feet of reinforced concrete.” Then Dominy did something extraordinary—he lowered his glasses, pulled out a pen, and diagrammed precisely how he would do it on a cocktail napkin. A stunned Ingebretsen could hardly believe what was happening. |
Storm2come
(OP) Natural Law always wins in the end User ID: 80494276 United States 07/26/2022 01:03 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I just found this Video measuring the last 20 years of dropping elevations at lake mead, while the video blames climate change, I think it's curious that NAFTA also started 20 years ago starting a mass migration from the south. Thread: Partial crustal shift and the Sun / earth , new EARTH UNDER FIRE video pg 116 Thread: Om frequencies, which one works for you?? If someone produces wealth and money, you have no right to tell them how to spend it.- Ayn Rand |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 80717822 United States 07/26/2022 01:05 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | There’s not much discussion about the third pipeline- the one way down deep at the bottom of Mead. My GLP-mind likely thinks that one may be simply ‘draining’ the lake to create this crisis. The rate of reduction has been exacerbated in the last year, but climate conditions have basically stayed the same. That’s not typical usage nor evaporation. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 80010885 United States 07/26/2022 01:06 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | No it gets changed to sewage and flushed into rivers and oceans after being treated so the real problem is no one is putting water back into the lake? didn't they think of that when they were taking the water out? or was it just a case of, we'll leave that part to chance? I don't think that when they built it 85 years ago that they had any idea how many people would need it, add a draught on to that and less snow pact melt and now we have a crises Given they based ALL of this on high precip levels of the 1920s that comes as a surprise to you? Do tell... Oh and the regular cyclical droughts of the west ignored? Yeah, that doomed the Anasazi too. Even the man responsible for "watering the west" knew he fucked up back in 1997: [link to www.msn.com (secure)] The date is Feb. 9, 1997, and the man responsible for one of the most egregious environmental follies in human history is sitting at a restaurant in Boyce, Virginia, with the leader of the movement seeking to undo his mistake. Of the hundreds of dams Floyd Dominy green lit during his decade running the Bureau of Reclamation, none are as loathed as his crown jewel, the Glen Canyon Dam. In 1963, Dominy erected the 710-foot (216-meter) tall monument to himself out of ego and concrete, deadening the Colorado River just upstream of the Grand Canyon, drowning more than 250 square miles (648 square kilometers) in the heart of the Colorado Plateau, and inventing Lake Powell in the middle of a sun-baked desert. After a couple of drinks, Dominy asked his dinner guest, Glen Canyon Institute founder Richard Ingebretsen, for an appraisal of the effort to drain Lake Powell. “It’s pretty serious, Mr. Dominy,” Ingebretsen recalled telling him, holding back the seething discontent of the broad coalition he represented. When Ingebretsen described his hypothetical plan to drill through the twin boreholes bestriding Glen Canyon dam, Dominy replied, “Well, you can’t do that. It is 300 feet of reinforced concrete.” Then Dominy did something extraordinary—he lowered his glasses, pulled out a pen, and diagrammed precisely how he would do it on a cocktail napkin. A stunned Ingebretsen could hardly believe what was happening. |
26Degrees
User ID: 81031998 United States 07/26/2022 01:07 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Lake Mead, a lifeline for water in Los Angeles and the West, ‘unrecognizable’ as it tips toward crisis Quoting: Storm2come Lake Mead, a lifeline for 25 million people and millions of acres of farmland in California, Arizona, Nevada and Mexico, made history when it was engineered 85 years ago, capturing trillions of gallons of river water and ushering in the growth of the modern West.[less than 50%] [link to www.register-herald.com (secure)] Let's face some facts in 1980 the population of Las Vegas was 146,000 today it's 662,000 , The population of Las Angelas was 9,300,00 today it's 12,9000,000. With just these 2 cities that's a rise of 4.1 million more people drinking the water. More farms that need irrigation While many are trying to blame climate change, I blame both legal and illegal migration on the water shortage in the Southwest USA. One more sign that resources are finite and should be protected from illegal immigration. Politicians that don't understand this should be voted out. Have you ever given a thought to pumps planted at the bottom of the lake when it was constructed that can be turned on and drained the lake from the bottom? Conspiracy theory of course, do do do do do do do do. Hey, things are never what they appear to be... and how about all that fresh water being routed to the west coast ....then drained out of rivers into the ocean.???? |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 83914441 France 07/26/2022 01:08 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Lake Mead, a lifeline for water in Los Angeles and the West, ‘unrecognizable’ as it tips toward crisis Quoting: Storm2come Lake Mead, a lifeline for 25 million people and millions of acres of farmland in California, Arizona, Nevada and Mexico, made history when it was engineered 85 years ago, capturing trillions of gallons of river water and ushering in the growth of the modern West.[less than 50%] [link to www.register-herald.com (secure)] :nova glass: Let's face some facts in 1980 the population of Las Vegas was 146,000 today it's 662,000 , The population of Las Angelas was 9,300,00 today it's 12,9000,000. With just these 2 cities that's a rise of 4.1 million more people drinking the water. More farms that need irrigation :illwork: While many are trying to blame climate change, I blame both legal and illegal migration on the water shortage in the Southwest USA. One more sign that resources are finite and should be protected from illegal immigration. :stopill: Politicians that don't understand this should be voted out. :illNancy: :realvsleft: buu-mur development lawns in the desert? oh yes they are totally worth it! |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 80010885 United States 07/26/2022 01:09 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | ... Quoting: Anonymous Coward 50983817 so the real problem is no one is putting water back into the lake? didn't they think of that when they were taking the water out? or was it just a case of, we'll leave that part to chance? I don't think that when they built it 85 years ago that they had any idea how many people would need it, add a draught on to that and less snow pact melt and now we have a crises any plans to NOW put water back in it? or that idea still flying over their heads? Have you noticed the braindead Morans leading this nation If it were me I'd create a pipeline from the Mississippi river. Far too distant, the Sea of Cortez is merely 50 miles away. THINK! [link to www.azcentral.com (secure)] So, why is the Arizona Legislature asking Congress to study and, if it’s feasible, implement a project to pump floodwater from the Mississippi to the Colorado River? Lawmakers claim in their request that Denver is “successfully harvesting floodwater from the Missouri River,” though a Denver Water spokesperson confirmed the city isn’t doing anything of the sort. States along the Mississippi that also will receive this letter might wonder why it’s just coming from Arizona, not any of the other Colorado River basin states that also desperately need to find other renewable water supplies. If anything, it makes us look wildly out of touch. Arizona is already working with other Lower Basin states and Mexico on possible desalination in the Sea of Cortez. Those efforts could deliver up to 200,000 acre-feet of water a year – at a unit cost on par with similar projects in California. That’s a lot more than what we pay for water today, but it’s still doable, knowing that water in Arizona is only going to get more expensive. Meanwhile, Central Arizona Project and the Arizona Department of Water Resources may join Nevada in an effort to recycle 170,000 acre-feet of California wastewater instead of dumping it into the ocean. It’s too early to estimate costs, but California has agreed to refund our seed money if it doesn’t pencil out. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 80010885 United States 07/26/2022 01:13 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | How many more bodies do they have to find before the water wasting states (and Mexico) are cut off from sucking the lake dry? Quoting: DeploraVision ™ Blatant DISINFORMATION! Mexico is NOT "sucking the lake dry" - in fact they agreed to let their share stay in Lake Mead: [link to www.watereducation.org (secure)] In 2007 Mexico and the United States agreed to a formal process managed by the IBWC to discuss “a number of issues of mutual concern to both nations related to the Colorado River.” The discussions resulted in a series of Minutes (agreements) to the 1944 Treaty designed to increase cooperation between the two countries on management of the river. Among the agreements, the milestone Minute 319 includes an agreement between the U.S. and Mexico that partially resolves the question of when Mexico will take a shortage in its Colorado River supplies. Mexico agreed to take a lesser amount of water during times of drought in exchange for establishment of the Intentionally Created Mexican Apportionment. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 80010885 United States 07/26/2022 01:14 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Lake Mead, a lifeline for water in Los Angeles and the West, ‘unrecognizable’ as it tips toward crisis Quoting: Storm2come Lake Mead, a lifeline for 25 million people and millions of acres of farmland in California, Arizona, Nevada and Mexico, made history when it was engineered 85 years ago, capturing trillions of gallons of river water and ushering in the growth of the modern West.[less than 50%] :nova glass: Let's face some facts in 1980 the population of Las Vegas was 146,000 today it's 662,000 , The population of Las Angelas was 9,300,00 today it's 12,9000,000. With just these 2 cities that's a rise of 4.1 million more people drinking the water. More farms that need irrigation :illwork: While many are trying to blame climate change, I blame both legal and illegal migration on the water shortage in the Southwest USA. One more sign that resources are finite and should be protected from illegal immigration. :stopill: Politicians that don't understand this should be voted out. :illNancy: :realvsleft: I'm not so sure you know what you're talking about OP. California's farmland is not irrigated from lake Mead. Maybe a bit of it near LA or sand Diego. But 95+ percent of it is irrigated from the Sierra Nevada snow melt. There's 1400 dams lining the Sierra Nevada collecting the snow melt and an aquaduct system that takes water all over the state. 10% of California water is used for household use. 5% for industrial. And 90% for farmland irrigation. California has invested 10s of Billions giving farmers equipment to prevent wasting water. As such the California uses the least amount of water and grows the most amount of food per acre than anywhere in the world. As much as I hate that state it isn't the cause of lake Mead drought. 50% of the water in lake Mead gets dumped in the ocean. And it wasn't always that way. Look elsewhere. And California grows shit for people all over the world. You've eaten something from California today ..assuming you actually eat fruits and vegetables and don't just eat potato chips and soda. |
Riverrat23
User ID: 80229174 United States 07/26/2022 01:20 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Storm2come
(OP) Natural Law always wins in the end User ID: 80494276 United States 07/26/2022 01:20 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Thank you AC80010885 for your contributions and the Bump, Thread: Partial crustal shift and the Sun / earth , new EARTH UNDER FIRE video pg 116 Thread: Om frequencies, which one works for you?? If someone produces wealth and money, you have no right to tell them how to spend it.- Ayn Rand |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 80010885 United States 07/26/2022 01:25 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Bullshit....all the other lakes are just fine in the area....locals have said they are releasing more water than normal....all ro drive a fake climate and over population agenda Quoting: Anonymous Coward 73945879 No, all the other lakes are NOT "just fine"! STOP THE LYING! [link to www.lakelevels.info (secure)] Lake Name Level Full Pool +/- Full Pool Alamo (AZ) 1,105.65 1,129.00 -23.35 Havasu (AZ CA) 449.15 445.00 4.15 Mohave (AZ NV) 643.99 647.00 -3.01 Pleasant (AZ) 1,675.73 1,660.00 15.73 Powell (UT AZ) 3,536.70 3,700.00 -163.30 [link to www.lakelevels.info (secure)] Flaming Gorge (UT WY) 6,016. 276,040.00 -23.73 [link to www.lakelevels.info (secure)] Navajo (NM CO) 6,024.19 6,085.00 -60.81 [link to www.lakelevels.info (secure)] Blue Mesa (CO) 7,460.83 7,519.00 -58.17 Morrow Point (CO)7,151.68 7,160.00 -8.32 |
Joker
User ID: 81574728 United States 07/26/2022 01:26 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Honestly I would not put it past the Gov letting water go. They have had some good rains in the past few years. It keeps going down. Just because there are people using it as normal flows why would the water keep going down?. I am just saying. CA lets their dams drain for no good reasons. A little guppy or what ever. Not that long ago Home land security had the dam block from the public. Something stinks in this. Last Edited by Joker on 07/26/2022 01:28 PM |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 80010885 United States 07/26/2022 01:27 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | And maybe build some storage instead of sending it all straight into the ocean? Maybe quit letting bottling companies free rein to pump as much as they want? Hmmm? I don't think we have a water shortage or to many people. We have to many greedy people!! Quoting: Storm2come No, we have an actual shortage, just as we regularly do given climate patterns in the west. Wise up. |
VegasRick
User ID: 81045925 United States 07/26/2022 01:28 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 80016631 United States 07/26/2022 01:28 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Alpacalips
User ID: 81691540 United States 07/26/2022 01:31 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 80010885 United States 07/26/2022 01:32 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | They are letting water out of the dams.... thats whats going on here. If they would stop their multi year fish population studies, then it would fill back up quickly. Quoting: MajorMountain I live in Northern AZ, and we are getting tons of rain... flooding even.... haven't even watered my garden in almost two weeks. The let 500,000 acre feet out of Flaming Gorge and it only brought Lake Powell up by 17'. Your water release claim is total BULLSHIT! All you're seeing is stairstep releases on a drying water basin, not one thing more. Want proof? Check the inflow figure to Mexico: [link to www.theguardian.com (secure)] After the Glen Canyon dam was built in Arizona in 1966, river flow in Mexico plunged to 8.3 cubic metres per second By the 1980s, 80% of the delta’s forests and wetlands were lost and the estuary partially destroyed, with devastating results for marine life, migratory birds, mammals and indigenous communities. The river has not flowed to the sea since 1998, apart from a few days in 2014 during an ecological experiment that simulated spring floods Currently the river flow in Mexico is 0.5 cubic metres per second, a fraction of what it once was. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 80010885 United States 07/26/2022 01:33 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | They used up all the water, so the Colorado river stopped flowing. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 22935650 LOL, the colorado river is fine... it doesn't make it to the ocean anymore (or not year round anyway) ever since we started the big dams, etc... but thats not something that should be unexpected.... if we don't want to use dams anymore fine, but stop acting like its climate change. Water is NOT scarce... its the most abundant molecule on the planet and we'll never run out of it. You should take a look at the imagery from Mars, which used to have a LOT of water! |
Riverrat23
User ID: 80229174 United States 07/26/2022 01:34 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 80010885 United States 07/26/2022 01:35 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | exceptionally good management for 80 years but the US is now filled with ignorant dipshits whose only skill is parroting phrases like "build back better" while having zero engineering skill. . Good management cant save the system from INACCURATE FLOW PROJECTIONS, now can it? And those projections made in the wet years of the 1920s were ANOMALOUS! Now we pay. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 80010885 United States 07/26/2022 01:38 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | And what would the loss of water from the Mississippi do to the Mississippi delta and the gulf of Mexico? You would end up causing more problems in the long run for other people. Robbing Peter to pay Paul. Seems like not just the leader are morans. It would be far easier to tell the morans in the desert to move. Or drill down. Somewhere under that ground there is water. 1.) No credible projections for pipeline extraction exist - bad data proliferates this crisis. 2.) Confined aquifers, or geologic water are non-renewable. 3.) But in that time they bear water they work = El Paso is on almost 100% desalinated water thanks to Ft. Bliss and the Army Corps of Engineers. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 80010885 United States 07/26/2022 01:39 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I just found this Video measuring the last 20 years of dropping elevations at lake mead, while the video blames climate change, I think it's curious that NAFTA also started 20 years ago starting a mass migration from the south. Quoting: Storm2come Separate use factor. The CLEAR AND OBVIOUS FAULT was using the wet years of the 1920s as the metric for succeeding years. Duh! |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 80010885 United States 07/26/2022 01:40 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I don't think any of the Colorado has reached the ocean for many years. CA has sucked it dry before it reaches Mexico. Quoting: Riverrat23 True that. [link to www.theguardian.com (secure)] |
themessengernevermatters
User ID: 80117407 United States 07/26/2022 01:40 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | ... Quoting: Anonymous Coward 50983817 any plans to NOW put water back in it? or that idea still flying over their heads? Have you noticed the braindead Morans leading this nation If it were me I'd create a pipeline from the Mississippi river. And what would the loss of water from the Mississippi do to the Mississippi delta and the gulf of Mexico? You would end up causing more problems in the long run for other people. Robbing Peter to pay Paul. Seems like not just the leader are morans. It would be far easier to tell the morans in the desert to move. Or drill down. Somewhere under that ground there is water. well, I didn't say it was the best idea , I do know that there have been discussions of using the upper Mississippi to replenish the Ogalala aquafer for farmland Yeah. I have been hearing those plans too. That is when I started thinking about, what might happen to the delta and gulf with less water. Personally I don't think it's the best idea, but you are right those in charge are shortsighted morons. “The rules are simple: they lie to us, we know they're lying, they know we know they're lying, but they keep lying to us, and we keep pretending to believe them.” Elena Gorokhova, A Mountain of Crumbs |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 80010885 United States 07/26/2022 01:41 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
themessengernevermatters
User ID: 80117407 United States 07/26/2022 01:43 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | And what would the loss of water from the Mississippi do to the Mississippi delta and the gulf of Mexico? You would end up causing more problems in the long run for other people. Robbing Peter to pay Paul. Seems like not just the leader are morans. Quoting: themessengernevermatters It would be far easier to tell the morans in the desert to move. Or drill down. Somewhere under that ground there is water. 1.) No credible projections for pipeline extraction exist - bad data proliferates this crisis. 2.) Confined aquifers, or geologic water are non-renewable. 3.) But in that time they bear water they work = El Paso is on almost 100% desalinated water thanks to Ft. Bliss and the Army Corps of Engineers. There is more water under the earth than we know what to do with. We just have to get down there. [link to www.pbs.org (secure)] Last Edited by themessengernevermatters on 07/26/2022 01:44 PM “The rules are simple: they lie to us, we know they're lying, they know we know they're lying, but they keep lying to us, and we keep pretending to believe them.” Elena Gorokhova, A Mountain of Crumbs |
Storm2come
(OP) Natural Law always wins in the end User ID: 80494276 United States 07/26/2022 01:44 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | And what would the loss of water from the Mississippi do to the Mississippi delta and the gulf of Mexico? You would end up causing more problems in the long run for other people. Robbing Peter to pay Paul. Seems like not just the leader are morans. It would be far easier to tell the morans in the desert to move. Or drill down. Somewhere under that ground there is water. 1.) No credible projections for pipeline extraction exist - bad data proliferates this crisis. 2.) Confined aquifers, or geologic water are non-renewable. 3.) But in that time they bear water they work = El Paso is on almost 100% desalinated water thanks to Ft. Bliss and the Army Corps of Engineers. I have to disagree with number 2, [link to twri.tamu.edu (secure)] Recharging the Ogallala Aquifer is the goal for the Texas Playa Conservation Initiative (TxPCI), a partnership of six organizations including Texas Parks and Wildlife, Playa Lakes Joint Venture, U.S. Department of Agriculture Natural Resources Conservation Service, U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, Ducks Unlimited and Texan by Nature (TxN). Thread: Partial crustal shift and the Sun / earth , new EARTH UNDER FIRE video pg 116 Thread: Om frequencies, which one works for you?? If someone produces wealth and money, you have no right to tell them how to spend it.- Ayn Rand |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 80010885 United States 07/26/2022 01:45 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | My pleasure, and thank you for opening this dialog up! This will become a major issue in the next 6 months. It is my belief the inflow numbers to Lake Mead are bogus. Right now the Colorado River arm is not even entering the lake: [link to earthobservatory.nasa.gov (secure)] The Overton Bay arm is no longer supplying the Virgin River either. Just scroll through the timeline on this imagery and be shocked. |