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Animals are not souls? Animals are not spirit???

 
4doggies

User ID: 80664795
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04/20/2022 05:56 PM

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Re: Animals are not souls? Animals are not spirit???
Dog atleast I am certain are a physical manifestation of God's love for us. He gave us a wonderful thing to be our most loyal companion and friend. I would be incomplete and lost without a dog even though they age and die and I have had more than a few once the period of grief ends and I have mourned my loss I always am rewarded with another. Cats are ok too...I guess.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 82816247


I couldn't have said it better myself. I have been so close to a couple of my dogs in the past that we conversed telepathically. If you treat your dogs like a family member and not a pet, they will respond in incredible ways.
Shadow Dance

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04/20/2022 06:09 PM

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Re: Animals are not souls? Animals are not spirit???
I have felt from a distance when two of my dogs have died (separate occasions). And it feels EXACTLY the same when humans die.

This incredibly empty feeling inside, like having had a massive orgasm but without any of the positive feelings related to it. A soul has left us, and it leaves an empty space for a while.
 Quoting: Karlgel


you have humanized your pets, in YOUR MIND, and suffer unnecessarily because of your self-created belief that they have Soul Consciousness (Human) - do they look HUMAN to you, do they act human or even eat the same as humans ... do you shit outside, or in a box - stop humanizing your pets -and appreciate them for what they ARE ... and how they enhance Human existence - of course you miss them, but they have very short life spans so that you can enjoy lots of them in a life-time

at least when you eat another life form, it becomes a part of you ... not so with pets - that in rare instance will eat you.
 Quoting: Shadow Dance



Dear Shadow Dance,

I'm afraid you don't know what you're talking about. You say there's no point for pets to have a soul. Are you REALLY able to say that? I don't humanize my dogs, I take care of them, but they are ALL UNIQUE individuals! I'm sure any dog/cat/cow/sheep/mouse owner can say the same.

I have currently three dogs still alive, and including the two who are barking at a happier place, they are ALL INDIVIDUALS. They all have their own, UNIQUE personality, their unique treats, unique behavior, unique way of reacting to stuff, unique way of COMMUNICATING, unique way of being afraid, happy, sleepy, grumpy, and ALL other HUMANE emotions!

The only thing they are lacking from being human-like, is unability to talk, read and write human understandable words. EVERYTHING else is the same. Exactly the same, they lack NOTHING.

And on top of that, they are much better in sensing stuff what's happening, seeing, hearing, smelling, feeling, EVERYTHING.

I would rather ask how many PEOPLE don't have a soul. But dogs do. I'm sad to hear that you think our LOOKS determine if we have a soul or not. Or if we crap outside or inside.

And just without humanizing anything - when my father died (not really expected yet), my mother called me from 2000 miles away. By the time my phone rang, I had known for 15 minutes already what she was going to say.

When my first dog died (unexpected), I was like 6000 miles away. When my wife called me, I had known about it for like 30-60 minutes already.

When my sister-in-law died very recently, I was at a church for Sunday-mass. Half way through the mass (about 10am), I was actually hung-over and feeling crappy, I suddenly got a huge boost of good feeling. I thought that our Lord's holy spirit entered me, something I had not encoutered before. Then my wife called like an hour later, saying her sister had passed away. Only much later I learned, the moment had been around 10am.

Just wanted to put this out there. Hoping you might even see this.
 Quoting: Karlgel


I appreciate your sincere reply, but the created purpose of a pet (or any animal ect) is not the same as the purpose a soul-carrier was created to do ... we are NOT animals, we are spirit being that use Soul carriers to experience LIFE in a physical world - This entire Solar System was created to sustain LIFE - for HUMANS ... not the bodies that they are in ... their (soul) consciousness is cumulative with each life they live - not so with other life forms - some of which go extinct when they no longer serve any purpose for HUMANS

I respect your Free Will and your right to believe anything you choose - but our domestic animals and our livestock and gardens, are dependent upon us to thrive - but we are not dependent upon them-we are already eating synthetic foods ... they exist to enhance Human life - as a part of what NATURE provides - unconditionally - take them or leave them.

it irks me to no end that people are more concerned about the abuse of animals, when HUMANS are far more abused - and vulnerable than a six week old dog that can survive on its own in nature - compared to a Soul carrier that takes 20 years before it is considered a self-responsible adult ... a hungry individual can be reasoned with for the most part ... a hungry animal will kill and eat what it needs to survive (including its owner or family members) and feels no guilt or remorse when it comes to its instincts for survival - even a chicken will eat meat - it considers mice and bugs as snacks --- instincts are not Soul Consciousness
Shamar  (OP)

User ID: 80376576
United States
04/20/2022 06:09 PM

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Re: Animals are not souls? Animals are not spirit???
Every living thing has a soul and spirit. The soul is that which feels and the spirit is that which knows. Animals have both feelings and knowledge although somewhat limited and on a much lower scale than that of man. Animals were not created in the likeness of God as men are. They are a lower type of life and they have souls and spirits in the sense of feelings, emotions, appetites, desires, passions, and a low form of knowledge, as can be seen in may Scriptures. If there are horses in Heaven as the Scriptures teach then there must be all kinds of animals there for Heaven is called a better place, and therefore it is sure to be as good as the Earth (Hebrews 11:10-16).

Scriptures teach that there is a difference between the natural spirit of man and the spirit of beasts (Eccl. 3:21); that there is a difference between "breath" and "spirit" (Job 34:15; Ps. 19:7; Luke 12:19; 1 Cor. 5:5;

2 Cor. 7:1) ; and that each creature has a separate spirit which is not a part of God (Num. 16:22; 27:17; Eccl. 3:21 ; Ezek. 21:7; Dan. 2:1-3; Mal. 2:15-16; Prov. 16:2; 1 Cor. 2:10-12; 14:32; Heb. 12:9, 23; 1 Thess. 5:23).

Eccl. 3:21 states this; "Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?"

(Note to reader audience: I'm catering to bible believers. Everyone please chime in. There's much more to this topic than scripture)
Love is like light. It is never constrained to its source; it shines on everything and tends to spread spontaneously, unless we block it! ~ Cosmic Swami

Love is a one-way street.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 82923262
France
04/20/2022 06:10 PM
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Re: Animals are not souls? Animals are not spirit???
By the way,

Many people were found dead locked alone inside their homes with their pets, these pets dogs or cats most of the time eat from their master dead bodies, after a long time left alone beside their dead master.

A spiritual being doesn't do that, you would say some men did the same, right but not those spiritually awaken would ever do that.
Sol-tari

User ID: 76129973
Australia
04/20/2022 06:15 PM
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Re: Animals are not souls? Animals are not spirit???
By the way,

Many people were found dead locked alone inside their homes with their pets, these pets dogs or cats most of the time eat from their master dead bodies, after a long time left alone beside their dead master.

A spiritual being doesn't do that, you would say some men did the same, right but not those spiritually awaken would ever do that.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 82923262



*Glitches May Occur. Consume(D) At Own Risk
Shadow Dance

User ID: 59490123
United States
04/20/2022 06:23 PM

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Re: Animals are not souls? Animals are not spirit???
Dog atleast I am certain are a physical manifestation of God's love for us. He gave us a wonderful thing to be our most loyal companion and friend. I would be incomplete and lost without a dog even though they age and die and I have had more than a few once the period of grief ends and I have mourned my loss I always am rewarded with another. Cats are ok too...I guess.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 82816247


I couldn't have said it better myself. I have been so close to a couple of my dogs in the past that we conversed telepathically. If you treat your dogs like a family member and not a pet, they will respond in incredible ways.
 Quoting: 4doggies


not all pets are capable of a "telepathic" relationship, no matter how you treat them - I know because I have had lots of dogs and cats but only one that was on that level - even though they were all raised the same, and some were the same breed as that one exceptional dog ... but to treat a dog like a Human, or better than you treat other humans is just wrong - because they are NOT HUMANs ... and it is a dis-service to treat them as if they are - let them be what they ARE - I have a horse right now, that is telepathic - but I don't bring her in the house and feed her hamburgers.... but we do have some great conversations LOL.
Anonymous Coward
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Switzerland
04/20/2022 08:25 PM
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Re: Animals are not souls? Animals are not spirit???
I have felt from a distance when two of my dogs have died (separate occasions). And it feels EXACTLY the same when humans die.

This incredibly empty feeling inside, like having had a massive orgasm but without any of the positive feelings related to it. A soul has left us, and it leaves an empty space for a while.
 Quoting: Karlgel


you have humanized your pets, in YOUR MIND, and suffer unnecessarily because of your self-created belief that they have Soul Consciousness (Human) - do they look HUMAN to you, do they act human or even eat the same as humans ... do you shit outside, or in a box - stop humanizing your pets -and appreciate them for what they ARE ... and how they enhance Human existence - of course you miss them, but they have very short life spans so that you can enjoy lots of them in a life-time

at least when you eat another life form, it becomes a part of you ... not so with pets - that in rare instance will eat you.
 Quoting: Shadow Dance



Dear Shadow Dance,

I'm afraid you don't know what you're talking about. You say there's no point for pets to have a soul. Are you REALLY able to say that? I don't humanize my dogs, I take care of them, but they are ALL UNIQUE individuals! I'm sure any dog/cat/cow/sheep/mouse owner can say the same.

I have currently three dogs still alive, and including the two who are barking at a happier place, they are ALL INDIVIDUALS. They all have their own, UNIQUE personality, their unique treats, unique behavior, unique way of reacting to stuff, unique way of COMMUNICATING, unique way of being afraid, happy, sleepy, grumpy, and ALL other HUMANE emotions!

The only thing they are lacking from being human-like, is unability to talk, read and write human understandable words. EVERYTHING else is the same. Exactly the same, they lack NOTHING.

And on top of that, they are much better in sensing stuff what's happening, seeing, hearing, smelling, feeling, EVERYTHING.

I would rather ask how many PEOPLE don't have a soul. But dogs do. I'm sad to hear that you think our LOOKS determine if we have a soul or not. Or if we crap outside or inside.

And just without humanizing anything - when my father died (not really expected yet), my mother called me from 2000 miles away. By the time my phone rang, I had known for 15 minutes already what she was going to say.

When my first dog died (unexpected), I was like 6000 miles away. When my wife called me, I had known about it for like 30-60 minutes already.

When my sister-in-law died very recently, I was at a church for Sunday-mass. Half way through the mass (about 10am), I was actually hung-over and feeling crappy, I suddenly got a huge boost of good feeling. I thought that our Lord's holy spirit entered me, something I had not encoutered before. Then my wife called like an hour later, saying her sister had passed away. Only much later I learned, the moment had been around 10am.

Just wanted to put this out there. Hoping you might even see this.
 Quoting: Karlgel


I appreciate your sincere reply, but the created purpose of a pet (or any animal ect) is not the same as the purpose a soul-carrier was created to do ... we are NOT animals, we are spirit being that use Soul carriers to experience LIFE in a physical world - This entire Solar System was created to sustain LIFE - for HUMANS ... not the bodies that they are in ... their (soul) consciousness is cumulative with each life they live - not so with other life forms - some of which go extinct when they no longer serve any purpose for HUMANS

I respect your Free Will and your right to believe anything you choose - but our domestic animals and our livestock and gardens, are dependent upon us to thrive - but we are not dependent upon them-we are already eating synthetic foods ... they exist to enhance Human life - as a part of what NATURE provides - unconditionally - take them or leave them.

it irks me to no end that people are more concerned about the abuse of animals, when HUMANS are far more abused - and vulnerable than a six week old dog that can survive on its own in nature - compared to a Soul carrier that takes 20 years before it is considered a self-responsible adult ... a hungry individual can be reasoned with for the most part ... a hungry animal will kill and eat what it needs to survive (including its owner or family members) and feels no guilt or remorse when it comes to its instincts for survival - even a chicken will eat meat - it considers mice and bugs as snacks --- instincts are not Soul Consciousness
 Quoting: Shadow Dance



I don't think we'll ever find a common ground, but I respect you. You have your own belief, I have mine, should we ever meet, we can learn more from each others.

God bless you. You have a beautiful soul, I love you. A disagreement is a way to learn. Moar.
Shamar  (OP)

User ID: 80376576
United States
04/21/2022 08:39 AM

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Re: Animals are not souls? Animals are not spirit???
hf
Love is like light. It is never constrained to its source; it shines on everything and tends to spread spontaneously, unless we block it! ~ Cosmic Swami

Love is a one-way street.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 77505643
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04/21/2022 10:59 AM
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Re: Animals are not souls? Animals are not spirit???
...when the clergy try to split man into two pieces, a living human body and an immortal spiritual soul, and say the body evolved but the soul was directly implanted by God, they are again warped in their religious thinking.

The human body was made directly from the dust and God started the living, breathing processes and man became a living soul, just as animals before him had been similarly made into living souls:

“Then Jehovah God proceeded to form the man out of dust from the ground and to blow into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man came to be a living soul.”

“God proceeded to create the great sea monsters and every living soul that glides.”

“Let the earth put forth living souls according to their kinds, domestic animal and creeping animal and wild beast of the earth according to its kind.”—Gen. 2:7; 1:21, 24, NW.

Man does not have a spiritual, immortal soul separate from the body, that lives on after the body dies.

Man himself is a soul, and the human “soul that sins shall die.”

Even in the case of the sinless soul of Jesus we read: “He poured out his soul to death.”

Men who have died may have a hope of resurrection, but death itself is the same for man as for any other animal, and to think differently is vanity:

“I said in my heart with regard to the sons of men that God is testing them to show them that they are but beasts.

For the fate of the sons of men and the fate of beasts is the same; as one dies, so dies the other.

They all have the same breath, and man has no advantage over the beasts; for all is vanity.

All go to one place; all are from the dust, and all turn to dust again.”—Ezek. 18:4; Isa. 53:12; Eccl. 3:18-20, RS.


[w57 1/1 p. 7]
Shamar  (OP)

User ID: 80376576
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04/21/2022 11:06 AM

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Re: Animals are not souls? Animals are not spirit???
The ruach animates all living beings.
Love is like light. It is never constrained to its source; it shines on everything and tends to spread spontaneously, unless we block it! ~ Cosmic Swami

Love is a one-way street.
Anonymous Coward
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04/21/2022 12:36 PM
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Re: Animals are not souls? Animals are not spirit???
"Man knows that he will die, but as for the dead, they know nothing at all."

This is the difference between humans and animals, I think.

Animals don't end up making death the central fact , and main preoccupation of their lives, the way humans do- all, while trying not to think about it. We weren't meant to live the short, messed-up lives we 'live' imo.

I wasn't really looking for a 1957 article about the "fad" of evolution, but it's interesting to me the idea that it was a new-ish "religious fad" in the fifties-

"THE Bible tells Christians to follow in the footsteps of Jesus, but today the religious fad is to trail off after the scientists who copy Greek philosophers. In the fifth century before Christ the Greek philosopher Empedocles believed in spontaneous generation of life, gradual evolution of organisms and survival of the fittest. In the following century Aristotle taught that “man is the highest point of one long and continuous ascent.” Greek philosophers in general preached the evolution idea......."


b/c I know this influence has been happening for a long time-

Rab_bi Marc Gellman, God Squad.

Q: I've always thought that in the last few hundred years of the Old Testament, those of the )3wish faith recognized the resurrection and afterlife of the soul. I can't refer to any passage in the Bible indicating this is so, though. Could you comment on the beliefs of )uda_ism in this regard? I just wonder if this is another point of commonality between )3ws and Christians. — J., Neenah, Wis.

A: One of the great misunderstandings about )uda_ism is that it has believed the same things since the time of Abraham (roughly 1,800 years before the Common Era). This is not true, and you can blame the big change on Aristotle.

After Alexander the Great conquered the Middle East in about 333 B.C.E., with his tutor, Aristotle, in tow, a new period of theology entered )uda-ism. It was called Hellenism, and its principal contributions to )3wish theology were the Aristotelian ideas of matter and form.

Matter was the principle of potentiality, and form was the principle of actuality. God was pure form (immaterial) and we humans, like all created beings, were imagined to be combinations of matter and form. The immaterial formal divine part within us was called our soul (H3br3w: n3shama).

The pre-greek Bible had H3br3w names that are translated as soul (n3f3sh), but the n3f3sh was not an immaterial essence that survived death. The n3f3sh was more like the life within us that ended with death. In the Bible, death is considered to be the end of us. There is a biblical idea of the resurrection of the dead at the end of time, but it's not a developed doctrine.
*

*(re that, however- "MARTHA, a close friend and disciple of Jesus, was grieving. Her brother, Lazarus, had died. Was there anything that could comfort her? Yes. Jesus promised her: “Your brother will rise.” Of course, those words could not take away all her sadness. Yet, Martha trusted Jesus’ promise, and she said: “I know he will rise in the resurrection on the last day.” (John 11:20-24) She was sure that there would be a resurrection in the future.")

After Aristotle, however, )uda_ism became a religion that taught the existence of bodies that die and souls that live on after death in the World to Come (what Christians came to call Heaven)..... <50%
[link to www.pressrepublican.com (secure)]
Anonymous Coward
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04/21/2022 12:39 PM
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Re: Animals are not souls? Animals are not spirit???
They are 2d
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 79520368
United States
04/21/2022 01:04 PM
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Re: Animals are not souls? Animals are not spirit???
The following is a quote from an incognito person making their point to support their belief:

Animus, without spirit led by instinct made for the flesh to feed the flesh, anyways God made both animal and human.

Don't be mistaken, i love animals, they basically follow God's rules without any consciousness, you'll never see an animal wage war to the world willing to rule over all the Earth by force and deceit.


I responded to this poster that I respectfully disagree, as I have been there, at this position of belief, before.

So now, I'm making a thread to discuss the evidence, including but not limited to, scripture, that confirms animals not only are souls, but are also spiritual beings.
 Quoting: Shamar



"you'll never see an animal wage war to the world willing to rule over all the Earth by force and deceit."

Hey, knock off the anti-semitism.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 77850978
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04/21/2022 01:10 PM
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Re: Animals are not souls? Animals are not spirit???
True. Animals do not have a soul, they do not have an after-life as humans do. They do not know the difference of right or wrong, like humans do, so they will not be judged.
Anonymous Coward
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04/21/2022 02:31 PM
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Re: Animals are not souls? Animals are not spirit???
True. Animals do not have a soul, they do not have an after-life as humans do. They do not know the difference of right or wrong, like humans do, so they will not be judged.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77850978


"Animals do not have a soul, they do not have an after-life as humans do."

How do you know that?
Anonymous Coward
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04/21/2022 02:42 PM
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Re: Animals are not souls? Animals are not spirit???
The Bible strongly disagrees for there are many animals in God's kingdom. "The wisdom of man is foolishness to me."
Shamar  (OP)

User ID: 80376576
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04/21/2022 04:03 PM

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Re: Animals are not souls? Animals are not spirit???
The Bible strongly disagrees for there are many animals in God's kingdom. "The wisdom of man is foolishness to me."
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 74571210


Yes, there are many scriptures that speak of animals being both ensouled beings, as well as spirit.
Love is like light. It is never constrained to its source; it shines on everything and tends to spread spontaneously, unless we block it! ~ Cosmic Swami

Love is a one-way street.





GLP