Employer pushing back against my religious exemption. Any advice on these questions?

OP, you should be able to find anything you need here:

[link to www.ncbcenter.org (secure)]

Do not get into a debate with them. You have no obligation to defend or explain your religious beliefs. They are trying to goad you into admitting or demonstrating that your religious beliefs are not sincerely held.

Just say that you don't necessarily agree with everything the Pope or Church declares. And then say that you are not looking to debate or explain your beliefs. Ask them what law specifies that you must explain or defend your religion to them.

Even better OP. I'm pretty sure I found this from somebody here on GLP, though I don't remember who. It's gold.

I work for a health care company, I've had a religious exemption for annual flu vax since 2012.
Our company has just mandated COVID vaccine, details have not yet been released.
I am banking on my current 9 year history of religious exemption to prove my sincerity and that I am not a Johnny-come-lately.

Your company is not in a position to argue about the details of your religious exemption.
I just can't see an atheist HR hack arguing against 2,000 year old Christian theology.

Your sincerity comes from your conscience, how are they going to argue against that?
My experience: the gate keeper of these exemptions is not interested in your details, they only want to check off the box next to your bothersome name.

While I do have a letter from a Catholic priest, I've not really had to use it.
The foundation of the letter hinges on:

The Catechism of the Catholic Church - basically a document that defines what it means to be Catholic
There are other Christian catechisms also, I am not familiar with them, so do your own research.
The current catechism is a modern document, but the Roman Catechism originated in 1566, and is based on scripture.
The theology of the Catholic church is a 1,000 miles wide and 1,000 miles deep, any flimsy argument you have conjured up from your 20 minutes of google searching or youtube watching, OR even your 60 years of life experience is no match for 2,000 years of church history. (it's Mike Tyson vs Pee Wee Herman)

I know that the current liberal Pope says vax is ok, Popes come and go, but the Catechism has not changed, and is not swayed or edited based on the whims of society.

Your conscience is the Holy Spirit speaking to you, this is why humans are hardwired for the knowledge of right and wrong.
I'm going to guess that your conscience is screaming at you not to take this vaccine, that is the Holy Spirit.

Article 6

MORAL CONSCIENCE

1776 "Deep within his conscience man discovers a law which he has not laid upon himself but which he must obey. Its voice, ever calling him to love and to do what is good and to avoid evil, sounds in his heart at the right moment.... For man has in his heart a law inscribed by God.... His conscience is man's most secret core and his sanctuary. There he is alone with God whose voice echoes in his depths."47

I. The Judgment of Conscience

1777 Moral conscience,48 present at the heart of the person, enjoins him at the appropriate moment to do good and to avoid evil. It also judges particular choices, approving those that are good and denouncing those that are evil.49 It bears witness to the authority of truth in reference to the supreme Good to which the human person is drawn, and it welcomes the commandments. When he listens to his conscience, the prudent man can hear God speaking.

1778 Conscience is a judgment of reason whereby the human person recognizes the moral quality of a concrete act that he is going to perform, is in the process of performing, or has already completed. In all he says and does, man is obliged to follow faithfully what he knows to be just and right. It is by the judgment of his conscience that man perceives and recognizes the prescriptions of the divine law:

Conscience is a law of the mind; yet [Christians] would not grant that it is nothing more; I mean that it was not a dictate, nor conveyed the notion of responsibility, of duty, of a threat and a promise.... [Conscience] is a messenger of him, who, both in nature and in grace, speaks to us behind a veil, and teaches and rules us by his representatives. Conscience is the aboriginal Vicar of Christ.50

1779 It is important for every person to be sufficiently present to himself in order to hear and follow the voice of his conscience. This requirement of interiority is all the more necessary as life often distracts us from any reflection, self-examination or introspection:

Return to your conscience, question it.... Turn inward, brethren, and in everything you do, see God as your witness.51

1780 The dignity of the human person implies and requires uprightness of moral conscience. Conscience includes the perception of the principles of morality (synderesis); their application in the given circumstances by practical discernment of reasons and goods; and finally judgment about concrete acts yet to be performed or already performed. the truth about the moral good, stated in the law of reason, is recognized practically and concretely by the prudent judgment of conscience. We call that man prudent who chooses in conformity with this judgment.

1781 Conscience enables one to assume responsibility for the acts performed. If man commits evil, the just judgment of conscience can remain within him as the witness to the universal truth of the good, at the same time as the evil of his particular choice. the verdict of the judgment of conscience remains a pledge of hope and mercy. In attesting to the fault committed, it calls to mind the forgiveness that must be asked, the good that must still be practiced, and the virtue that must be constantly cultivated with the grace of God:

We shall . . . reassure our hearts before him whenever our hearts condemn us; for God is greater than our hearts, and he knows everything.52

1782 Man has the right to act in conscience and in freedom so as personally to make moral decisions. "He must not be forced to act contrary to his conscience. Nor must he be prevented from acting according to his conscience, especially in religious matters."53

II. The Formation of Conscience

1783 Conscience must be informed and moral judgment enlightened. A well-formed conscience is upright and truthful. It formulates its judgments according to reason, in conformity with the true good willed by the wisdom of the Creator. the education of conscience is indispensable for human beings who are subjected to negative influences and tempted by sin to prefer their own judgment and to reject authoritative teachings.

1784 The education of the conscience is a lifelong task. From the earliest years, it awakens the child to the knowledge and practice of the interior law recognized by conscience. Prudent education teaches virtue; it prevents or cures fear, selfishness and pride, resentment arising from guilt, and feelings of complacency, born of human weakness and faults. the education of the conscience guarantees freedom and engenders peace of heart.

1785 In the formation of conscience the Word of God is the light for our path,54 we must assimilate it in faith and prayer and put it into practice. We must also examine our conscience before the Lord's Cross. We are assisted by the gifts of the Holy Spirit, aided by the witness or advice of others and guided by the authoritative teaching of the Church.55


III. To Choose in Accord With Conscience

1786 Faced with a moral choice, conscience can make either a right judgment in accordance with reason and the divine law or, on the contrary, an erroneous judgment that departs from them.

1787 Man is sometimes confronted by situations that make moral judgments less assured and decision difficult. But he must always seriously seek what is right and good and discern the will of God expressed in divine law.

1788 To this purpose, man strives to interpret the data of experience and the signs of the times assisted by the virtue of prudence, by the advice of competent people, and by the help of the Holy Spirit and his gifts.

1789 Some rules apply in every case:
- One may never do evil so that good may result from it;
- the Golden Rule: "Whatever you wish that men would do to you, do so to them."56
- charity always proceeds by way of respect for one's neighbor and his conscience: "Thus sinning against your brethren and wounding their conscience . . . you sin against Christ."57 Therefore "it is right not to . . . do anything that makes your brother stumble."

IV. Erroneous Judgment

1790 A human being must always obey the certain judgment of his conscience. If he were deliberately to act against it, he would condemn himself. Yet it can happen that moral conscience remains in ignorance and makes erroneous judgments about acts to be performed or already committed.

1791 This ignorance can often be imputed to personal responsibility. This is the case when a man "takes little trouble to find out what is true and good, or when conscience is by degrees almost blinded through the habit of committing sin."59 In such cases, the person is culpable for the evil he commits.

1792 Ignorance of Christ and his Gospel, bad example given by others, enslavement to one's passions, assertion of a mistaken notion of autonomy of conscience, rejection of the Church's authority and her teaching, lack of conversion and of charity: these can be at the source of errors of judgment in moral conduct.

1793 If - on the contrary - the ignorance is invincible, or the moral subject is not responsible for his erroneous judgment, the evil committed by the person cannot be imputed to him. It remains no less an evil, a privation, a disorder. One must therefore work to correct the errors of moral conscience.

1794 A good and pure conscience is enlightened by true faith, for charity proceeds at the same time "from a pure heart and a good conscience and sincere faith."60

The more a correct conscience prevails, the more do persons and groups turn aside from blind choice and try to be guided by objective standards of moral conduct.61

IN BRIEF

1795 "Conscience is man's most secret core, and his sanctuary. There he is alone with God whose voice echoes in his depths" (GS 16).

1796 Conscience is a judgment of reason by which the human person recognizes the moral quality of a concrete act.

1797 For the man who has committed evil, the verdict of his conscience remains a pledge of conversion and of hope.

1798 A well-formed conscience is upright and truthful. It formulates its judgments according to reason, in conformity with the true good willed by the wisdom of the Creator. Everyone must avail himself of the means to form his conscience.

1799 Faced with a moral choice, conscience can make either a right judgment in accordance with reason and the divine law or, on the contrary, an erroneous judgment that departs from them.

1800 A human being must always obey the certain judgment of his conscience.

1801 Conscience can remain in ignorance or make erroneous judgments. Such ignorance and errors are not always free of guilt.

1802 The Word of God is a light for our path. We must assimilate it in faith and prayer and put it into practice. This is how moral conscience is formed.

[link to www.vatican.va (secure)]
[link to www.vatican.va (secure)]
[link to www.vatican.va (secure)]
[link to www.vatican.va (secure)]
[link to www.vatican.va (secure)]
[link to www.vatican.va (secure)]

Last Edited by Where Eagles Fly on 11/06/2021 03:33 AM

Have your Attorney call your Employer and ask his if he's got any questions.

That is not true.

pay a soldier to fix it for you.

My body is subject to my will alone. That is the most important part of my religion. Period.

Pope Francis didn't write the Bible, pope Francis isn't who I pray too, I listen to the Bible and it tells me to trust in God etc etc... So I trust what he gave me...

Should have been protestant, would have been easier... We all know what Catholic priests are like, can't imagine the pope's much better, absolute power corrupts absolutely, Vatican library vault would definitely put him in that category...

Lol the love thy neighbour bit is hilarious, tell em you love your neighbours and your work colleagues but won't be dragged down with them, tell them you love them so much you tried to save them but they wouldn't listen, kinell just oppose everything they say and counteract it with gospel I guess....


End of day, Catholics treat the pope as though he is god, that's the fault, what he says goes and it's fucked you.

Covid vaccine is what scientists call an "imperfect" vaccine, that is it does not block transmission of the virus, so you are not more a threat to your neighbor than someone who is vaccinated.
In reality, the vaccinated are spreading the disease asymptomaitcally, while the unvaccinated who is sick stays home.

Healthcare resources are occupied by covid patients who already have other illnesses, people with other illnesses will out of their own free will choose to get vaccinated. Healthy people do NOT need to be forced or choose to get vaccined in order to avoid health care, covid does not affect them that much.

Hi OP,

You got some tough ones but good ones. You put yourself in a pickle by associating your faith with a denomination rather than Jesus Christ your God and the Holy Bible his words.

Here is your answer to BOTH of the questions:



My God Jesus Christ did not establish a denomination or appoint any one man over another, but rebuked such religious leaders saying:
St. Matthew 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
and
St. Matthew 15:6 Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.
and said my Lord that he only is my Master:
St. Matthew 23:10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.
and:
Jeremiah 17:5 Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD.

Therefore it is a sin for me to trust in anyone but my Lord God.

Pope means papa or father and Jesus said:
St. Matthew 23:9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
and
St. Mark 10:42-43 ... Ye know that they which are accounted to rule over the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and their great ones exercise authority upon them. 43 But so shall it not be among you: but whosoever will be great among you, shall be your minister

Therefore I do not answer to the Pope or any Catholic commission.

Therefore while I identify as a Catholic, which means universal, I do not fully ascribe to every teaching of the Catholic denomination. As no one ever can reach an end of learning in their specified field of expertise, any ignorance on my part of all the Holy scriptures, or the workings or doctrines of the organized religious denomination of which I associate with does not imply any dissociation to my faith or church gatherings.



























If they ask later where your Lord God Jesus said not to put a vaccine in your body:



My God said:
Numbers 19:11 He that toucheth the dead body of any man shall be unclean seven days.

Leviticus 21:1 ... There shall none be defiled for the dead among his people
(except for certain close relatives)

Galatians 5:19-21 19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Leviticus 17:10-11 And whatsoever man there be of the house of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn among you, that eateth any manner of blood; I will even set my face against that soul that eateth blood, and will cut him off from among his people. 11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.

As a believer in God I desire to inherit the Kingdom of God but the Holy Scriptures of my God say that I cannot inherit the Kingdom of my God by willfully being unclean. Because every vaccine contains the remains of a deceased aborted fetus of a human I cannot willfully sin against my God, and condone the murder of the human child by proxy, by accepting any vaccine.

If OP told them hes Catholic, he needs to STFU and get jabbed. These injections were made for tards like you and your employer called your bluff and "outwitted" you, which is to say they spent 5 minutes in google to try to jab an undesirable, when that undesirable couldnt be bothered to spend that 5 minutes saving his career.

If you didnt say youre Catholic, employer is a AAA certified Mega Tard and you dont need further instruction.

You can also add,


As to my moral duty to protect my health, my duty is to morally obey my God Jesus. And when I do that he promised to protect me from all plagues:
Psalm 91:10-11 There shall no evil befall thee, neither shall any plague come nigh thy dwelling. 11 For he shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee in all thy ways.

And as long as I morally obey my God and he protects me from plagues then I will not receive any disease to pass along to others. My ultimate authority is the Lord Jesus Christ and I must serve him first, even as his own disciples attested to,

Acts 5:29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.

Not true. As I gave an example of telling the employer that vaxxes contain dead baby parts, that might not have been known until now. Who is going to get a vaccine knowing there are dead baby parts in it? crazy fucks that's who.

The more you give in written statements, the more ammo you give them to twist your words.
Don’t try to out word them.
Keep it simple.
Let them fire you and give written cause as to why.
That’s where all of this is headed with employers that fight religious exemptions.
Find a small employer to work for.

As some have noted, you shouldn't have to defend your faith. They are really pulling you for a loop, OP, basically by not believing you and/or just testing you. Why? Because if you disagree with fellow Catholics that doesn't mean your conviction isn't there, or your reasons unjustified or unjustifiable (not that you need to defend yourself). It is no different than questioning their loyalty to the company if they disagree with anything someone else contributes. For an extreme example (people don't like it when you ACTUALLY use extreme examples), if you put forth an idea that it would be best if you be made CEO, and some valid reasons why, then if anyone disagrees with you you could question them whether they were really working there, and whether they really were loyal to the company, and whether they really knew all the policies???

(Then accuse them of being fake and ignorant, claim usurpation as the CEO and fire that person immediately!)

OP here - I’m very glad to say that my exemption was APPROVED.
Thank you to everyone who offered input and resources and references to scripture. (I’m especially grateful for the suggestion of Archbishop Vigano’s letter which I used extensively in my reply. Great to see a man like that standing up against evil.)
Telling them I’m Catholic really was a mistake from square one - I’m either too honest or too dumb and probably both - but with your help, I was able to respond confidently and defend my beliefs (as if anyone should ever need to!).

Bless you, thank you, and MERRY CHRISTMAS!

You are claiming a Religious exemption for YOUR beliefs.
You do not have to justify them in terms of the church you belong to
The Exemption is already YOURS.
They may ask only such limited questions as are required to figure out how to accommodate your religious objection

Simply say that you do not need to square anything because these are your own sincerely held religious beliefs and any further question along these lines under the law will be considered harassment.

Good. Now sue them for harassment as they had no right to even ask such questions.

Identify as a non-denominational Christian. Explain how a vaccine made from and/or tested with aborted baby tissue is against your beliefs, and against the commandment "Thou shalt Not Kill".

"all vaccines recognized as clinically safe and effective
can be used in good conscience."

First answer. On who's authority have they been deemed
safe and effective? Currently they only have emergency
use authorization. The clergy in NOT a medical establishment
that is recognized by their professional medical data
on such medical devices. It's not up to them to make
this individual 'take a chance' and as such, this statement
has no merit to solicit a response.

Question #1

In 1 Chronicles 22:8 we learn that God did not allow David to build the temple because he had killed.
It would be an abomination to allow such a desecration.

Our body is a temple of God.

1 Corinthians 6:19-20 (ESV), he asks, “Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God? You are not your own, for you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body.”

The vaccine has an abortion background. It would be a desecration of the temple to allow it to work on your body.

Question #2

The pope seems to have more faith in pharma than God Almighty.
I put my faith in Jesus the healer.

List a dozen examples of Jesus healing

Nothing you can do short of a court case which could go on for months or years.

Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own;

As your body belongs to god anything man puts into like sexual sins is a sin against the holy temple. So a covid shot is a sin and should be avoided as it marks the body and desecrates the temple.

1 Corinthians 6-19