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Employer pushing back against my religious exemption. Any advice on these questions?

 
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 80523042
United States
11/05/2021 05:50 PM
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Employer pushing back against my religious exemption. Any advice on these questions?
Hi all,
Long time reader, first time poster.
My employer is currently pushing back against my religious exemption and I thought I'd seek assistance on here from anyone who may have some theological insight into how I can respond to their two specific (and well-researched) questions below.
The have not rejected my exemption YET but their questions make it clear to me that they are looking for a reason to do so.
I have cut and pasted them from my employer's email.
Grateful for any input.
Many thanks.


EMAIL BEGINS
QUESTION 1
The Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith noted that "it is morally acceptable to receive Covid-19 vaccines that have used cell lines from aborted fetuses in their research and production process." They continued that due to the "grave danger" presented by the "uncontainable spread of a serious pathological agent — in this case, the pandemic spread of the SARS-CoV2 virus that causes Covid-19," "all vaccines recognized as clinically safe and effective can be used in good conscience."

***Can you please speak to how you square the conclusions of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, the Vatican COVID-19 Commission and the Pontifical Academy for Life that all of the COVID-19 vaccines are morally acceptable to Catholics with your statements that the Catholic Church teaches there is a moral duty to refuse the use of vaccines that are created using human cell lines derived from abortion?***

QUESTION 2
Pope Francis has said that ethically, everyone should take the vaccine, that “It is an ethical choice because you are gambling with your health, with your life, but you are also gambling with the lives of others.” The Vatican’s Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith emphasized that while vaccination — like all medical interventions — is voluntary, there is a moral "duty to protect one's own health [as well as] the duty to pursue the common good." The Catechism of the Catholic Church stresses the importance of loving thy neighbor, with that commandment summarizing all the others and expressing God’s entire will (CCC 2196 and 2822). The Pope’s statements reference the scientific support that immunization both reduces the chance of onward virus transmission to others and reduces the likelihood that an infected individual will need hospitalization. COVID outbreaks earlier this year strained hospital resources in many states, impacting the availability of life-saving care for even patients needing help unrelated to COVID.
Avoiding the vaccine may have a directly negative impact on a neighbor’s own health.
Pope Francis and Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI have both taken the vaccine themselves.

***Can you please speak to how, as a Catholic, you square the directives of Pope Francis, the Congregation for the Doctrine of Faith and the Catechism, which speak of the moral duty to protect your own health and the health of others by taking the
vaccine, against your statements that vaccinations violate your Catholic religious convictions?***

EMAIL ENDS
above/below

User ID: 76209865
United States
11/05/2021 05:53 PM
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Re: Employer pushing back against my religious exemption. Any advice on these questions?
just look up some catholic alt church that doesnt follow the vatican, or better yet say you are baptist and identify as a POC and you do not ingage in inject expierements because of the tuskane expierements. Or just go by your ceos office


above/below
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 80134483
United States
11/05/2021 05:57 PM
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Re: Employer pushing back against my religious exemption. Any advice on these questions?
Leave the Roman Catholic church - that simple. At that point the employer can't question your beliefs....tell employer you are joining the same church Mel Gibson goes to...a much more conservative RC. Tell them the words of the doctrine of the faith are not replacements for previous teachings...learn what "ex cathedra" means.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 77064362
11/05/2021 05:58 PM
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Re: Employer pushing back against my religious exemption. Any advice on these questions?
You do NOT have to defend your religious belief.
See Peggy Hall

You state your religious belief.
That's it
You claim tHe exemption.
PirateMonkey

User ID: 80073232
United States
11/05/2021 05:59 PM
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Re: Employer pushing back against my religious exemption. Any advice on these questions?
You need to be following this guide:

https://imgur.com/niwHE55

7/11 was a part time job!

Psalm 35:19 Let not them that are mine enemies wrongfully rejoice over me: neither let them wink with the eye that hate me without a cause.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 39963644
United States
11/05/2021 05:59 PM
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Re: Employer pushing back against my religious exemption. Any advice on these questions?
first tell them you are not catholic

then tell them to fuck off
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 77064362
11/05/2021 06:00 PM
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Re: Employer pushing back against my religious exemption. Any advice on these questions?
Is the pope your head or is Jesus christ?
Pres. Elect Festus Hoggbottom

User ID: 78382070
United States
11/05/2021 06:00 PM

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Re: Employer pushing back against my religious exemption. Any advice on these questions?
1. I'm not Catholic.
2. I'm not Catholic.
I did it. I did it on purpose. And I'll do it again.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 79824412
United States
11/05/2021 06:08 PM
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Re: Employer pushing back against my religious exemption. Any advice on these questions?
Our faith establishes a firmly held religious belief against all vaccinations that stems from the fact that the Bible teaches that all people are made in the image of God and refusal to receive a vaccination is supported by this scripture: “Know ye not that ye are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? If any man defiles the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are…What? Know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?” 1 Corinthians 3:16-17, 6:19 (KJV). Our faith maintains firmly held religious believe that our bodies are the temple of the Holy Spirit. It is a God-given responsibility and requirement for us to protect the physical integrity of our body against unclean food and injections.
T2256

User ID: 80987710
United States
11/05/2021 06:20 PM
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Re: Employer pushing back against my religious exemption. Any advice on these questions?
Hi all,
Long time reader, first time poster.
My employer is currently pushing back against my religious exemption and I thought I'd seek assistance on here from anyone who may have some theological insight into how I can respond to their two specific (and well-researched) questions below.
The have not rejected my exemption YET but their questions make it clear to me that they are looking for a reason to do so.
I have cut and pasted them from my employer's email.
Grateful for any input.
Many thanks.


EMAIL BEGINS
QUESTION 1
The Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith noted that "it is morally acceptable to receive Covid-19 vaccines that have used cell lines from aborted fetuses in their research and production process." They continued that due to the "grave danger" presented by the "uncontainable spread of a serious pathological agent — in this case, the pandemic spread of the SARS-CoV2 virus that causes Covid-19," "all vaccines recognized as clinically safe and effective can be used in good conscience."

***Can you please speak to how you square the conclusions of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, the Vatican COVID-19 Commission and the Pontifical Academy for Life that all of the COVID-19 vaccines are morally acceptable to Catholics with your statements that the Catholic Church teaches there is a moral duty to refuse the use of vaccines that are created using human cell lines derived from abortion?***

QUESTION 2
Pope Francis has said that ethically, everyone should take the vaccine, that “It is an ethical choice because you are gambling with your health, with your life, but you are also gambling with the lives of others.” The Vatican’s Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith emphasized that while vaccination — like all medical interventions — is voluntary, there is a moral "duty to protect one's own health [as well as] the duty to pursue the common good." The Catechism of the Catholic Church stresses the importance of loving thy neighbor, with that commandment summarizing all the others and expressing God’s entire will (CCC 2196 and 2822). The Pope’s statements reference the scientific support that immunization both reduces the chance of onward virus transmission to others and reduces the likelihood that an infected individual will need hospitalization. COVID outbreaks earlier this year strained hospital resources in many states, impacting the availability of life-saving care for even patients needing help unrelated to COVID.
Avoiding the vaccine may have a directly negative impact on a neighbor’s own health.
Pope Francis and Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI have both taken the vaccine themselves.

***Can you please speak to how, as a Catholic, you square the directives of Pope Francis, the Congregation for the Doctrine of Faith and the Catechism, which speak of the moral duty to protect your own health and the health of others by taking the
vaccine, against your statements that vaccinations violate your Catholic religious convictions?***

EMAIL ENDS
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 80523042


Religious exemption yes.

No need to have an organized religion declared.

Religious exemption is not something exclusively decided by the pope or the rabbi, your missing the point.

It's god's will for humans to respect the right of humans.

It's your right alone; your body; your blood; your soul; choose wisely.
T2256
Let freedom ring in your heart!
Open all the doors!

Stay tuned for more episodes of the TEOSIRNADU!

I will teach the world incredible secrets.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 78823371
United States
11/05/2021 06:21 PM
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Re: Employer pushing back against my religious exemption. Any advice on these questions?
Liability Document works better. + Informed consent.
The cannucks are trying their damndest.
[link to action4canada.com (secure)]
T2256

User ID: 80987710
United States
11/05/2021 06:24 PM
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Re: Employer pushing back against my religious exemption. Any advice on these questions?
Stop being so goddamn fucking stupid selfish racist and retarded and stop believing fucking fairy tales and in a non existent god and just get your damn vaccine wear a mask and support BLM and stop killing so many people with your stupidity and selfishness!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 81095199


And who gives you the authority to decide for her?

Perhaps it's you who needs to sit back down and shut your hateful words, grow up.
T2256
Let freedom ring in your heart!
Open all the doors!

Stay tuned for more episodes of the TEOSIRNADU!

I will teach the world incredible secrets.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 80120250
United Kingdom
11/05/2021 06:25 PM
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Re: Employer pushing back against my religious exemption. Any advice on these questions?
"Hi, my sincerely held religious convictions prevent me from taking this vaccine.

If you wish to challenge my right to hold sincerely held religious convictions regarding a vaccine, please contact:
CONGRESS ADDRESS

thanks, your name"

You do not have to explain shit to your employer. Your rights are protected by congress. If your employer wishes to fight your rights, direct them to congress.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 23740487
United States
11/05/2021 06:35 PM
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Re: Employer pushing back against my religious exemption. Any advice on these questions?
I would have a lawyer put your exemption request on letterhead.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 80347046
Canada
11/05/2021 06:42 PM
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Re: Employer pushing back against my religious exemption. Any advice on these questions?
1. I'm not Catholic.
2. I'm not Catholic.
 Quoting: Pres. Elect Festus Hoggbottom


Based on HR's question, it already sounds like the OP told them he/she is Catholic, which was a HUGE mistake.

Other Christian religions, like Marcionites, have strict edicts in writing against the mRNA jabs.

[link to www.marcionitechurch.org (secure)]

OP: If you've already said you were Catholic, it might not work, but you could always claim you're a Marcionite Christian.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 77728753
United States
11/05/2021 06:51 PM
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Re: Employer pushing back against my religious exemption. Any advice on these questions?
Say that as Christians they should know not to force things. Then if they say they are not Christians then say well now I really don’t want it.
Pres. Elect Festus Hoggbottom

User ID: 78382070
United States
11/05/2021 06:55 PM

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Re: Employer pushing back against my religious exemption. Any advice on these questions?
Stop being so goddamn fucking stupid selfish racist and retarded and stop believing fucking fairy tales and in a non existent god and just get your damn vaccine wear a mask and support BLM and stop killing so many people with your stupidity and selfishness!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 81095199


And who gives you the authority to decide for her?

Perhaps it's you who needs to sit back down and shut your hateful words, grow up.
 Quoting: T2256


shill:rere23:specialstupidSTFUfeedtroll
Hey Karen it's time for you to stop being so goddamn fucking stupid selfish and racist and just get your damn vaccine wear a mask and support BLm and stop killing so many people with your stupidity and selfishness and stop believing such stupid bullshit like religion and the bible and stop believing in god which doesn't exist!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 81095199


EVERYONE WHO WON'T DO WHAT I WANT THEM TO DO IS BEING SELFISH!!!!!!!!!

triggerd
I did it. I did it on purpose. And I'll do it again.
Maiya
It's kind of fun to do the impossible.

User ID: 78268903
United States
11/05/2021 07:19 PM

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Re: Employer pushing back against my religious exemption. Any advice on these questions?
OP: if you told them you are ROMAN Catholic, read here: [link to www.ncronline.org (secure)]

Basically article says conscious Trump's pope policy. Article is long but explains it all.

If you told them you are just Catholic, the Eastern orthodox Catholics are against vaccination. Do a web search for it. I found it easily. Often people in the USA confuse ROMAN Catholics with Eastern orthodox Catholics - and the difference is profound. I used to be married to an Eastern orthodox.
They never thought she would lose. Now they all lose.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 81095336
United States
11/05/2021 07:19 PM
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Re: Employer pushing back against my religious exemption. Any advice on these questions?
Give him a letter from your attorney.

Go get one.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 66937733
United States
11/05/2021 08:11 PM
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Re: Employer pushing back against my religious exemption. Any advice on these questions?
Ask them why they are requiring the vaccine and question it in a way that is leading them and make the inquiry being belated on transmission. If they state they are requiring it to reduce transmission in the work place then refer to video of the director of the cdc staying in early august that the vaccine does not have any affects on the transmission of delta variant. Still defend your religious convictions but this is extra ammo for when you lawyer up: they’re going to fire you 100%. Crazy how they question your faith and turned this into real discourse, most just outright deny the exemption. Never read anything like your employers response…nothing even close. Would be wise to keep the discussion going as long as possible. The more they say the more ammo you have to give your lawyer. Build that case!

And just because you are catholic doesn’t mean you must adhere to popes recommendation on a vaccine. You can also cite numerous things the pope has stated in recent years that go against your beliefs thus showing and furthering your religious and moral stance. The pope has directly gone against doctrine a number of times in recent years.

And go to a local church, maybe a few of them, and get written statements from their head of church that support your views and decision against vaccination and have the church address some of the recent things the pope has said in regards to your faith that don’t align with the faith..assuming a church leader will be willing to do that. No way all of them agree with what pope has done in recent years.

Good luck! Ya gonna need it
The Albuquerque Statesman

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United States
11/05/2021 08:14 PM
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Re: Employer pushing back against my religious exemption. Any advice on these questions?
Religious exemptions exist so we don't have to start killing our enemies.

They protect you, not me.
230 here, but 0 there.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 66937733
United States
11/05/2021 08:14 PM
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Re: Employer pushing back against my religious exemption. Any advice on these questions?
Give him a letter from your attorney.

Go get one.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 81095336


This^^ too, call their bluff and let em know ya mean business. But do this after you get them to discuss this subject as much as possible. It’s obvious their hr is incompetent since they are actually calling you out on your faith and willing to discuss this stuff and even worse it’s via email instead of in person or a phone call. More they talk, better chance you have with a lawyer.

You must make decent money there? They seem somewhat scared and don’t want to pay unemployment.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 80034100
Germany
11/05/2021 08:15 PM
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Re: Employer pushing back against my religious exemption. Any advice on these questions?
first tell them you are not catholic

then tell them to fuck off
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 39963644


Best answer.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 81048991
United States
11/05/2021 08:17 PM
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Re: Employer pushing back against my religious exemption. Any advice on these questions?
"When the teachers of the law who were Pharisees saw him eating with the sinners and tax collectors, they asked his disciples: “Why does he eat with tax collectors and sinners?. On hearing this, Jesus said to them, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.” - Mark 2:16-17
Anonymous Coward
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Germany
11/05/2021 08:17 PM
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Re: Employer pushing back against my religious exemption. Any advice on these questions?
Stop being so goddamn fucking stupid selfish racist and retarded and stop believing fucking fairy tales and in a non existent god and just get your damn vaccine wear a mask and support BLM and stop killing so many people with your stupidity and selfishness!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 81095199


Next person to be dead soon. ??
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 80337779
Canada
11/05/2021 08:18 PM
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Re: Employer pushing back against my religious exemption. Any advice on these questions?
Leave the Roman Catholic church - that simple. At that point the employer can't question your beliefs....tell employer you are joining the same church Mel Gibson goes to...a much more conservative RC. Tell them the words of the doctrine of the faith are not replacements for previous teachings...learn what "ex cathedra" means.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 80134483



Agreed, leave the catholic church. The pope is Satanic, don't you see that?
Anonymous Coward
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United States
11/05/2021 08:19 PM
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Re: Employer pushing back against my religious exemption. Any advice on these questions?
You do NOT have to defend your religious belief.
See Peggy Hall

You state your religious belief.
That's it
You claim tHe exemption.

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77064362
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 77310373
Romania
11/05/2021 08:20 PM
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Re: Employer pushing back against my religious exemption. Any advice on these questions?
I just told them I was a Juuden and my boss gave me his salary for a year.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 77310373
Romania
11/05/2021 08:22 PM
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Re: Employer pushing back against my religious exemption. Any advice on these questions?
Religious exemptions exist so we don't have to start killing our enemies.

They protect you, not me.
 Quoting: The Albuquerque Statesman


Yeah its definitely a form of acceptance. Fuck that. Im not diling shit. They can god damn fire me and Ill see them in court.
The Albuquerque Statesman

User ID: 77395904
United States
11/05/2021 08:24 PM
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Re: Employer pushing back against my religious exemption. Any advice on these questions?
Religious exemptions exist so we don't have to start killing our enemies.

They protect you, not me.
 Quoting: The Albuquerque Statesman


Here you go:

now i understand and
accept why i am hated i
am even proud to be hated
for the sake of christ

a game within games
within games

altogether:

come let us go down there
and confuse their
language in order that
they may not understand
one anothers language

They forget that both religion and exemption mean life or death things to people.

A king ordered everyone in his kingdom to bow to a statue, but there were people who claimed a religious exemption.

Next, the knives come out and someone has to die.

God even takes a hand.
230 here, but 0 there.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 79620370
Germany
11/05/2021 08:29 PM
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Re: Employer pushing back against my religious exemption. Any advice on these questions?
yer shittin me.





GLP