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Let's decentralize the internet

 
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 80428803
United States
07/13/2021 11:19 PM
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Re: Let's decentralize the internet
The No Agenda (Adam Curry & John C Dvorak) podcast has a social board you would get more and better takers there.
Anonymous Coward
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07/13/2021 11:23 PM
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Re: Let's decentralize the internet
i want to lean in this direction

digital identity is a human right that should go above any agency or company.

we need to manage our own agency.

i think tim berners lee at inrupt.com has a good model.
 Quoting: Undestroyer


No. The ability to speak without restriction, regardless of "digital identity" is paramount.
 Quoting: BoatyMcBoatface


decentralized identifiers.

[link to en.m.wikipedia.org (secure)]
Anonymous Coward
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07/13/2021 11:37 PM
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Re: Let's decentralize the internet
I wish I knew coding or a programming language, I would love to help and contribute to this. Sometimes Im not able to post here and I can try to make an account but I wouldn’t be able to do a paid one right now so probably couldn’t PM on there anyway but do you want interested parties to check back here on this thread in the future or do you share ideas like this on other forums or boards that you’d rather folks contact you on? I’ll definitely pass on the idea / vision and try to get others here or elsewhere if you’d like but tell me more basically what you are looking for what you’d need from someone interested in collaborating and where you stand currently with the project, please.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 77682096
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07/13/2021 11:44 PM
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Re: Let's decentralize the internet
I've never stopped working on P2P related stuff to help decentralize communication on the internet.

One of the latest things I've worked on is creating a mesh of p2p tracker servers so decentralized apps no longer need to depend on the few overloaded public tracker servers.

I'm trying to work out how to make servers participating in the swarm of trackers more secure for individual applications, but still allow them to share other trackers between each other.

Ideally, it would be a giant globally interconnected mesh of P2P tracker servers that can be used by whatever P2P app needs it...

Much more work to be done.

It's fun to work on, but I need a collaborator or two... Ironically, building P2P technologies happens to be a very isolating endeavor. Probably because it isn't easy at all.
 Quoting: BoatyMcBoatface


Im not a programmer..but i remember in the early days ..bbs..that idea that connected to a server..wouldn't it be possible to keep connectivity without a central server..like jump from conncection to connection without a central line, everything is wireless these days just encrypt the the code with a choice few who are in the know pick up the frequency or message who have the de incription.. does that make sense..i believe its possible.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 54300502
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07/13/2021 11:59 PM
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Re: Let's decentralize the internet
every packet of data regardless of prxy encryption etc is all recorded, its rooted into icann, if your online your logged thoroughly
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 79583101
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07/14/2021 12:00 AM
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Re: Let's decentralize the internet
godspeed op
Head2Bunker

User ID: 79523756
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07/14/2021 12:08 AM
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Re: Let's decentralize the internet
Good luck Boaty...i like you bro..i remember you from a long time ago (slightly different handle)
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 75244730
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07/14/2021 01:25 AM
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Re: Let's decentralize the internet
I love the idea but you won't talk to ACs so fuck u.

When you're ready to not be a dick, I'll be here.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 76651058
Algeria
07/14/2021 01:32 AM
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Re: Let's decentralize the internet
I've never stopped working on P2P related stuff to help decentralize communication on the internet.

One of the latest things I've worked on is creating a mesh of p2p tracker servers so decentralized apps no longer need to depend on the few overloaded public tracker servers.

I'm trying to work out how to make servers participating in the swarm of trackers more secure for individual applications, but still allow them to share other trackers between each other.

Ideally, it would be a giant globally interconnected mesh of P2P tracker servers that can be used by whatever P2P app needs it...

Much more work to be done.

It's fun to work on, but I need a collaborator or two... Ironically, building P2P technologies happens to be a very isolating endeavor. Probably because it isn't easy at all.
 Quoting: BoatyMcBoatface


I see a ton of challenges with something like this. Not putting it down by any means, just a lot of things that would need to be thought out to be successful, and that has to be a primary goal--the other being providing a decentralized network that is not controlled by anyone and content published within cannot be censored.

I think of T*r, which is an overlay network on the Internet. I would not necessarily call it successful, it's slow as piss, nothing is reliable, and the way it's constructed (which is because it is an overlay) is insecure with the exit nodes.

Challenges I see:

- Participants required to create a usable mesh network
- Geographic considerations (dense, rural)
- IP addressing (e.g. can't use private IPs)
- Distributed name resolution
- Content and reliability. No data centers, no cloud, runs on whatever people have, which goes up and down, can't scale, and can't handle any load of use
- Illegal content. Will happen day one.
- Mobile support. No private anything. Hotspot or mobile data is connected to Internet
- Adoption. Word of mouth may not be good enough to get the tipping point of users required to make the mesh successful. Would need to really get the word out there in so many ways.

Obviously an overlay network solves some of this, but then relies on commercial internet, which could just block it, unless there was some dynamic/random port allocation, but it ends up trying to solve what Tor has been doing for years and years, which isn't that great.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 80606841
07/14/2021 01:34 AM
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Re: Let's decentralize the internet
it already is.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 79583101
Canada
07/14/2021 01:35 AM
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Re: Let's decentralize the internet
it already is.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 80606841


Fail
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 4812794
United States
07/14/2021 01:36 AM
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Re: Let's decentralize the internet
I've never stopped working on P2P related stuff to help decentralize communication on the internet.

 Quoting: BoatyMcBoatface


The3 Net IS ALREADY decentralized, other than some mega sites, and Amazon AWS.

But you CAN avoid those, IF you're smart.


.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 76651058
Algeria
07/14/2021 01:37 AM
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Re: Let's decentralize the internet
I've never stopped working on P2P related stuff to help decentralize communication on the internet.

One of the latest things I've worked on is creating a mesh of p2p tracker servers so decentralized apps no longer need to depend on the few overloaded public tracker servers.

I'm trying to work out how to make servers participating in the swarm of trackers more secure for individual applications, but still allow them to share other trackers between each other.

Ideally, it would be a giant globally interconnected mesh of P2P tracker servers that can be used by whatever P2P app needs it...

Much more work to be done.

It's fun to work on, but I need a collaborator or two... Ironically, building P2P technologies happens to be a very isolating endeavor. Probably because it isn't easy at all.
 Quoting: BoatyMcBoatface


I see a ton of challenges with something like this. Not putting it down by any means, just a lot of things that would need to be thought out to be successful, and that has to be a primary goal--the other being providing a decentralized network that is not controlled by anyone and content published within cannot be censored.

I think of T*r, which is an overlay network on the Internet. I would not necessarily call it successful, it's slow as piss, nothing is reliable, and the way it's constructed (which is because it is an overlay) is insecure with the exit nodes.

Challenges I see:

- Participants required to create a usable mesh network
- Geographic considerations (dense, rural)
- IP addressing (e.g. can't use private IPs)
- Distributed name resolution
- Content and reliability. No data centers, no cloud, runs on whatever people have, which goes up and down, can't scale, and can't handle any load of use
- Illegal content. Will happen day one.
- Mobile support. No private anything. Hotspot or mobile data is connected to Internet
- Adoption. Word of mouth may not be good enough to get the tipping point of users required to make the mesh successful. Would need to really get the word out there in so many ways.

Obviously an overlay network solves some of this, but then relies on commercial internet, which could just block it, unless there was some dynamic/random port allocation, but it ends up trying to solve what Tor has been doing for years and years, which isn't that great.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 76651058


I guess as I re-read this, I didn't consider that you take the idea of P2P like Torrent and distribute the content across the network in some way similar, addressing the content and reliability item.
roguetechie81

User ID: 79785318
United States
07/14/2021 01:55 AM
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Re: Let's decentralize the internet
The resounding silence is when you know you are on a government-run site and no one willing to help. Good luck!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 80224217


I had a dream the other night about Trin and his friends. I won't tell you what the dream was about, but the outcome was fine.
 Quoting: BoatyMcBoatface


I wish I could help decentralized mesh networking that can dynamically reroute is what we desperately need.

The other side has it and is dismantling the old repeaters etc specifically so we can't bootstrap our own competing version.
roguetechie
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 76651058
Algeria
07/14/2021 01:56 AM
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Re: Let's decentralize the internet
I've never stopped working on P2P related stuff to help decentralize communication on the internet.

One of the latest things I've worked on is creating a mesh of p2p tracker servers so decentralized apps no longer need to depend on the few overloaded public tracker servers.

I'm trying to work out how to make servers participating in the swarm of trackers more secure for individual applications, but still allow them to share other trackers between each other.

Ideally, it would be a giant globally interconnected mesh of P2P tracker servers that can be used by whatever P2P app needs it...

Much more work to be done.

It's fun to work on, but I need a collaborator or two... Ironically, building P2P technologies happens to be a very isolating endeavor. Probably because it isn't easy at all.
 Quoting: BoatyMcBoatface


Im not a programmer..but i remember in the early days ..bbs..that idea that connected to a server..wouldn't it be possible to keep connectivity without a central server..like jump from conncection to connection without a central line, everything is wireless these days just encrypt the the code with a choice few who are in the know pick up the frequency or message who have the de incription.. does that make sense..i believe its possible.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77682096


The BBS. Man those were some of the best memories I had. When I was in middle school, I had a Commodore 64, was into phone hacking (phreaking if I recall the name), and I was on BBSs all over the country. Ran my own here and there, more for learning how the code worked.

Used phones and 300->1200 baud modems.

Amazing where we are now.
roguetechie81

User ID: 79785318
United States
07/14/2021 01:58 AM
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Re: Let's decentralize the internet
I've never stopped working on P2P related stuff to help decentralize communication on the internet.

One of the latest things I've worked on is creating a mesh of p2p tracker servers so decentralized apps no longer need to depend on the few overloaded public tracker servers.

I'm trying to work out how to make servers participating in the swarm of trackers more secure for individual applications, but still allow them to share other trackers between each other.

Ideally, it would be a giant globally interconnected mesh of P2P tracker servers that can be used by whatever P2P app needs it...

Much more work to be done.

It's fun to work on, but I need a collaborator or two... Ironically, building P2P technologies happens to be a very isolating endeavor. Probably because it isn't easy at all.
 Quoting: BoatyMcBoatface


I see a ton of challenges with something like this. Not putting it down by any means, just a lot of things that would need to be thought out to be successful, and that has to be a primary goal--the other being providing a decentralized network that is not controlled by anyone and content published within cannot be censored.

I think of T*r, which is an overlay network on the Internet. I would not necessarily call it successful, it's slow as piss, nothing is reliable, and the way it's constructed (which is because it is an overlay) is insecure with the exit nodes.

Challenges I see:

- Participants required to create a usable mesh network
- Geographic considerations (dense, rural)
- IP addressing (e.g. can't use private IPs)
- Distributed name resolution
- Content and reliability. No data centers, no cloud, runs on whatever people have, which goes up and down, can't scale, and can't handle any load of use
- Illegal content. Will happen day one.
- Mobile support. No private anything. Hotspot or mobile data is connected to Internet
- Adoption. Word of mouth may not be good enough to get the tipping point of users required to make the mesh successful. Would need to really get the word out there in so many ways.

Obviously an overlay network solves some of this, but then relies on commercial internet, which could just block it, unless there was some dynamic/random port allocation, but it ends up trying to solve what Tor has been doing for years and years, which isn't that great.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 76651058


Fuck the entire idea of illegal content. People will always break the law, that's no reason to deny everyone else Their freedom!

Punishing normal people because some people do bad shit is how we got in this mess.

Whether it's machine guns or warez sites it's antithetical to take the rights of the free because criminals exist
roguetechie
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 77963671
United States
07/14/2021 02:18 AM
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Re: Let's decentralize the internet
[link to beakerbrowser.com (secure)]
[link to iris.to (secure)]
[link to pixelfed.org (secure)]
[link to yacy.net (secure)]
[link to Stopspammmingthis.com (secure)]
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 77963671
United States
07/14/2021 02:19 AM
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Re: Let's decentralize the internet
That last one was supposed to be lbry_com, maybe someone feels vulnerable, ')
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 79897493
United States
07/14/2021 02:19 AM
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Re: Let's decentralize the internet
I've never stopped working on P2P related stuff to help decentralize communication on the internet.

One of the latest things I've worked on is creating a mesh of p2p tracker servers so decentralized apps no longer need to depend on the few overloaded public tracker servers.

I'm trying to work out how to make servers participating in the swarm of trackers more secure for individual applications, but still allow them to share other trackers between each other.

Ideally, it would be a giant globally interconnected mesh of P2P tracker servers that can be used by whatever P2P app needs it...

Much more work to be done.

It's fun to work on, but I need a collaborator or two... Ironically, building P2P technologies happens to be a very isolating endeavor. Probably because it isn't easy at all.
 Quoting: BoatyMcBoatface


This is a great idea.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 78227579
United States
07/14/2021 02:25 AM
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Re: Let's decentralize the internet
Nah.

It’s like Johnny Mnemonic...

You want the net...you need ID and credits...it’s not free.

I think somebody should hook up a dolphin to the internet.

Even had the 5G disease like Covid...

Great Old Timey movie to watch and see your future unfold.
klfiend

User ID: 80475114
07/14/2021 02:37 AM
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Re: Let's decentralize the internet
This intrigues me

What sorts of languages do I need to learn?

Bluetooth protocols would make excellent mesh networks
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 77963671
United States
07/14/2021 02:42 AM
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Re: Let's decentralize the internet
More importantly, you should look at

[link to www.tribler.org (secure)]

It basically does exactly what you are describing.

Code is here: [link to github.com (secure)]

Python
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 80567263
Canada
07/14/2021 03:07 AM
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Re: Let's decentralize the internet
I code in c c++ python Java prolog Haskell etc etc etc I’d love to help
Mr.N0

User ID: 80602571
Croatia
07/14/2021 03:09 AM

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Re: Let's decentralize the internet
bump
Life Is But a Dream
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 79337261
07/14/2021 03:27 AM
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Re: Let's decentralize the internet
I'm with you in spirit.
Not sure if I could help but code regularly in Python, c++.
I use Tor - not perfect but it's a start.

OP: What would be your first priority?
In my experience, setting small goals would allow people to contribute.

Since MicroShaft took over Github I have thought to try and minimize use of that - so perhaps a venue for code repo might be a first check item??
Suggestion: GitLab??

I think it's important to be Open Source (I've open sourced my entire life!! - It's great... COMPLETE FREEDOM!)

Once people begin to see code and aims, we can get involved.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 79337261
07/14/2021 03:34 AM
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Re: Let's decentralize the internet
I'm with you in spirit.
Not sure if I could help but code regularly in Python, c++.
I use Tor - not perfect but it's a start.

OP: What would be your first priority?
In my experience, setting small goals would allow people to contribute.

Since MicroShaft took over Github I have thought to try and minimize use of that - so perhaps a venue for code repo might be a first check item??
Suggestion: GitLab??

I think it's important to be Open Source (I've open sourced my entire life!! - It's great... COMPLETE FREEDOM!)

Once people begin to see code and aims, we can get involved.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 79337261


Honestly, my "parenthesis management" is better than the above text when I code... lol...
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 79337261
07/14/2021 03:50 AM
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Re: Let's decentralize the internet
I'm with you in spirit.
Not sure if I could help but code regularly in Python, c++.
I use Tor - not perfect but it's a start.

OP: What would be your first priority?
In my experience, setting small goals would allow people to contribute.

Since MicroShaft took over Github I have thought to try and minimize use of that - so perhaps a venue for code repo might be a first check item??
Suggestion: GitLab??

I think it's important to be Open Source (I've open sourced my entire life!! - It's great... COMPLETE FREEDOM!)

Once people begin to see code and aims, we can get involved.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 79337261


Honestly, my "parenthesis management" is better than the above text when I code... lol...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 79337261

You mentioned you were not into crypto BUT there exists some decentralised infrastructure which might be leveraged.

For example, decentralised DNS exists using NameCoin..I've never used it and I don't own any of the tokens.. but...

Namecoin uses blockchain technology to distribute its DNS amongst the users on the network.

"You can think of the Dot-Bit DNS as a decentralized, Internet phone book."
[link to coincentral.com (secure)]
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 79337261
07/14/2021 03:54 AM
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Re: Let's decentralize the internet
I'm with you in spirit.
Not sure if I could help but code regularly in Python, c++.
I use Tor - not perfect but it's a start.

OP: What would be your first priority?
In my experience, setting small goals would allow people to contribute.

Since MicroShaft took over Github I have thought to try and minimize use of that - so perhaps a venue for code repo might be a first check item??
Suggestion: GitLab??

I think it's important to be Open Source (I've open sourced my entire life!! - It's great... COMPLETE FREEDOM!)

Once people begin to see code and aims, we can get involved.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 79337261


Honestly, my "parenthesis management" is better than the above text when I code... lol...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 79337261

You mentioned you were not into crypto BUT there exists some decentralised infrastructure which might be leveraged.

For example, decentralised DNS exists using NameCoin..I've never used it and I don't own any of the tokens.. but...

Namecoin uses blockchain technology to distribute its DNS amongst the users on the network.

"You can think of the Dot-Bit DNS as a decentralized, Internet phone book."
[link to coincentral.com (secure)]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 79337261

I should add - perhaps access to the NameCoin DNS registry could be a first aim? Later on, allow registration of new Domains?

PS - there is also 'FileCoin' - again, don't own any but it's decntralised, open-source and ALREADY THERE.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 78321223
Japan
07/14/2021 04:00 AM
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Re: Let's decentralize the internet
I've never stopped working on P2P related stuff to help decentralize communication on the internet.

One of the latest things I've worked on is creating a mesh of p2p tracker servers so decentralized apps no longer need to depend on the few overloaded public tracker servers.

I'm trying to work out how to make servers participating in the swarm of trackers more secure for individual applications, but still allow them to share other trackers between each other.

Ideally, it would be a giant globally interconnected mesh of P2P tracker servers that can be used by whatever P2P app needs it...

Much more work to be done.

It's fun to work on, but I need a collaborator or two... Ironically, building P2P technologies happens to be a very isolating endeavor. Probably because it isn't easy at all.
 Quoting: BoatyMcBoatface


I understand what you are talking about, but haven't written code in almost 20 years and never got very good at it.

You need to dummy this down so that people will understand just how important what you are talking about is.

I might throw money in the direction of developing this stuff, but I can't code at my age.
CitizenPerth™

User ID: 80241579
Australia
07/14/2021 04:04 AM
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Re: Let's decentralize the internet
No GLP programmers?
 Quoting: BoatyMcBoatface


herein lies the problem....

just like telephones, it requires a "central" switching board to locate from P2P...

to decentralize would take node finding from the hands of a 'said' authority....

that said, I have worked on p2p myself... using something like an IP locater, but there is the problem, still need the central 'switching board'

I'm willing to help you boaty ;)

Last Edited by CitizenPerth™ on 07/14/2021 04:06 AM
It's life as we know it, but only just.
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GLP