Learning from Jesus' final words.

Yes soldiers will sell their souls to the devil for a paycheck.


Last Edited by DGN on 06/24/2021 08:47 PM

Does every man have his price as the devil claims?

He had no final words, he said he would give humanity some time to think it over and then He would return



This forum could use a little more fire n brimstone.



Triva Note: the actor who played the warden used Rolfe Barnards radio voice as his tone model for whipping Paul Newmans charter WHAT WE GOT HERE... Rolfe Barnard. real evangelist

Last Edited by SidV on 06/24/2021 09:22 PM

“YOU WILL BE WITH ME IN PARADISE”

5. What did Jesus promise one of the criminals being executed alongside him, and why did he make that promise?

5 What did Jesus say? Two criminals were being executed alongside Jesus. At first, the two joined in reproaching him. (Matt. 27:44) But later, one of them had a change of heart. He came to the conclusion that Jesus had done “nothing wrong.” (Luke 23:40, 41) What is more, he expressed his belief that Jesus would be resurrected from death and rule as a king someday. He said to the dying Savior: “Jesus, remember me when you get into your Kingdom.” (Luke 23:42) What faith that man showed! In answer, Jesus said to him: “Truly I tell you today, you will be with me [not in the Kingdom, but] in Paradise.” (Luke 23:43) Notice that Jesus made that promise very personal by referring to “I,” “you,” and “me.” Knowing that his Father is merciful, Jesus spoke words that gave hope to this dying criminal.—Ps. 103:8.

6. What do we learn from Jesus’ words to the criminal?

6 What can we learn from Jesus’ words? Jesus is a perfect reflection of his Father. (Heb. 1:3) Jehovah is eager to forgive us and to show us mercy if we are truly sorry for the bad things we have done in the past and we exercise faith that we can obtain forgiveness of our sins through the shed blood of Jesus Christ. (1 John 1:7) Some may find it difficult to believe that Jehovah could ever forgive them for their past mistakes. If you feel that way at times, consider this: Shortly before he died, Jesus made an expression of mercy to the condemned criminal who was just beginning to show faith. So how much more would Jehovah show mercy to his faithful worshippers, who are doing their best to obey his commandments!—Ps. 51:1; 1 John 2:1, 2.

Luke 23:34: Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do.
Luke 23:43: Verily, I say unto you today, thou shalt be with me in paradise.
John 19:26–27: Woman, behold thy son. (Says to disciple) Behold thy mother.
Matthew 27:46 and Mark 15:34: My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?
John 19:28: I thirst.
John 19:30: It is finished.
Luke 23:46: Father, into thy hands I commit my spirit.

It is the priveledge of the forgiven to forgive.

Everyone who has betrayed me this time is marked for death.

Yes what a shame because;

The thief does not come unless it is to steal and slay and destroy. I have come that they may have life and have it in abundance. 11 I am the fine shepherd;i the fine shepherd surrenders his life in behalf of the sheep. 12 The hired man, who is not a shepherd and to whom the sheep do not belong, sees the wolf coming and abandons the sheep and flees—and the wolf snatches them and scatters them. jo10

This paragraph is so amazingly revealing of truth, IMO.

It seems ironic that "thief being executed next to Jesus" account is used to claim that "that day" they both went to heaven,[ which is untruth, IMO].

Before thief becomes a believer:
at first thieves and crowd seem to take the view that Jesus' ill-treatment is deserved [karma],
and anyway, is predestined to happen [like 'everything that happens is', right ?]

because pretty much all of christendom's denominations, and maybe all or most other religions too,
turn out to believe in predestination,
featuring concept of an "elect" set of individuals, each of whom has been pre-ordained "before the founding of the world" to be so .

And success- like wealth, for instance- is supposedly a sign of God's - or " the gods' " - favor.

And I guess "once saved, always saved" could seem applicable, if the getting-saved experience is maybe seen as a turning point after which one knows one is "of the elect"

-"which has been predestined from before the founding of world" they think -
and doesn't change, except that now they know about it.[?]

As for the "Faith, Not Works !" rule, the foregoing beliefs are part of "a faith" so, "believe".

BUT< whatever you do- do NOT attempt a "works -based salvation", b/c this'll have you roastin' in an actual h3ll hotter'n even Nashon could wish for y3w

{I'm truly sorry this is so sarcastic and hateful-sounding.
I'm just dying to say something about that paragraph and already had this written, but had thought better of posting it at the time, b/c so mean-sounding. I don't think believers in the things i seem to be making fun of are dumb, just mistaken. And I don't think I'm smart, just think I'm right.}

“SEE! YOUR SON! . . . SEE! YOUR MOTHER!”

7. What did Jesus say to Mary and John, as recorded at John 19:26, 27, and why did he say this?

7 What did Jesus say? (Read John 19:26, 27.) Jesus was concerned about his mother, who was likely a widow. His siblings could perhaps care for her physical and material needs. But who could care for her spiritual needs? There is no indication that his brothers were as yet disciples. However, John was a faithful apostle and one of Jesus’ closest friends. Jesus viewed those who joined him in worshipping Jehovah as his spiritual family. (Matt. 12:46-50) Therefore, moved by love and concern for Mary, Jesus entrusted her care to John, knowing that he would care for her spiritual welfare. To his mother, he said: “See! Your son!” And to John, he said: “See! Your mother!” From that day on, John became like a son to Mary and cared for her as if she were his mother. What love Jesus showed to the precious woman who had tenderly cared for him at his birth and was standing near him at his death!

8. What can we learn from Jesus’ words to Mary and John?

8 What can we learn from Jesus’ words? Our bond with our Christian brothers and sisters can be stronger than our ties to immediate family members. Our relatives may oppose us or even abandon us, but as Jesus promised, by sticking to Jehovah and His organization, we will “get 100 times more” than we have lost. Many will become to us like a loving son, daughter, mother, or father. (Mark 10:29, 30) How do you feel about being part of a spiritual family who are united by faith and love—love for Jehovah and for one another?—Col. 3:14; 1 Pet. 2:17.

“MY GOD, WHY HAVE YOU FORSAKEN ME?”

9. What do Jesus’ words recorded at Matthew 27:46 tell us?

9 What did Jesus say? Shortly before his death, Jesus called out: “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?” (Matt. 27:46) The Bible does not explain why Jesus said this. Consider, though, what those words tell us. For one thing, by saying these words, Jesus was fulfilling the prophecy found at Psalm 22:1. * Furthermore, the words made it clear that Jehovah was not keeping “a protective hedge around” his Son. (Job 1:10) Jesus understood that his Father had released him fully into the hands of his enemies so that he could be tested to the limit—as no human has ever been tested. In addition, these words confirmed that he was innocent of any crime deserving of death.

10. What lessons can we learn from Jesus’ words to his Father?

10 What can we learn from Jesus’ words? One lesson we can learn is that we must not expect Jehovah to shield us from challenges that test our faith. Just as Jesus was tested to the limit, we too must be prepared to prove faithful to death if necessary. (Matt. 16:24, 25) However, we have the assurance that God will not let us be tested beyond what we can bear. (1 Cor. 10:13) Another lesson we learn is that, like Jesus, we may suffer unjustly. (1 Pet. 2:19, 20) Those who oppose us do so, not because we have done something wrong, but because we are no part of the world and we bear witness to the truth. (John 17:14; 1 Pet. 4:15, 16) Jesus understood why Jehovah allowed him to suffer. Unlike him, however, faithful worshippers under trial have sometimes wondered why Jehovah allowed certain things to happen. (Hab. 1:3) Our merciful and patient God understands that such ones do not lack faith; they need the comfort that only he can provide.—2 Cor. 1:3, 4.

That was the ending of the vision where Christ, Moses and Elias were seen with Jesus. They were all high priests in the OT. Christ was the only High Priest between Adam-Moses, His authority comes from the last few lines of Proverbs:8. The first part of that passage is describing how wise He is, the 2nd portion is His witness of Ge:1. From that vision on Jesus was adding information that enhanced what was already recorded in the OT.


Proverb:8:22-23:
The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way,
before his works of old.
I was set up from everlasting,
from the beginning,
or ever the earth was.
.
.
Proverb:8:30-36:
Then I was by him,
as one brought up with him:
and I was daily his delight,
rejoicing always before him;
Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth;
and my delights were with the sons of men.
Now therefore hearken unto me,
O ye children:
for blessed are they that keep my ways.
Hear instruction,
and be wise,
and refuse it not.
Blessed is the man that heareth me,
watching daily at my gates,
waiting at the posts of my doors.
For whoso findeth me findeth life,
and shall obtain favour of the LORD.
But he that sinneth against me wrongeth his own soul:
all they that hate me love death.

A search for Passover dates will show that 30AD is the only year when Passover was the day before the weekly Sabbath. That setting is needed to get 3 days and 3 nights in the grave. The 'last supper' was Wed. evening, He was arrested Thur. at 6AM and in the grave by 3PM, the next 3 hours count as 'day1'.

If He dropped the cross, He was already quite weak. Isa:53 is the prophecy that fits that day. The pleasure God got from sending Jesus to the grave was it was the fulfillment of all things to do with the bruise to the heel from Ge:3:15. The grief was when Jesus felt abandoned and god was going to leave Him alive rather than letting Him go to the grace asap. When Jesus said, 'It is finished.' He was referencing all things to do with the bruise to the heel of the seed of Eve. In the 70 weeks prophecy that would be the prophecy that was fulfilled, the other bruise being completed is when the changes are allowed.

The first part of Isa:53 is saying the mortal body Jesus had was 'quite flawed' while the body He had for the 40 days after His resurrection was a 'glorified body' which is being immortal (spirit body) person who can interact with items in the mortal world. All people alive at the end of the 1st day He returns are no longer mortal beings, they are all spiritual, like Jesus was when He asked Mary M. to not touch Him. By that coming evening, He could be touched by the 11 people He baptized. He leads them to the living water and tree of life in the Eze:47 setting.

The Nazi's burned books of child porn, perversion and the writings of Marx.

Just sayin.

3. To whom was Jesus likely referring when he said: “Father, forgive them”?

That they were doing the will of Satan as it was Satan who kissed Jesus in the Garden. That is how Ge:3 was truthful when it said that 'Satan' would cause a seed of Eve (any 5 fingered person) to be 'injured'. That 'injury' allows God to send all sinful immortal to their 'grave' which is the fiery lake.

4. What can we learn from Jesus’ willingness to forgive his opposers?

It means the curse of the 12 Tribes if found in the Book of Jeremiah, in Matthew:23 Jesus was completing the chastisement that is needed before a sinner can be gathered to the kingdom of God. In Hebrews:12 the setting is the Great White Throne, it is still a time of chastisement and forgiveness. A few days later Jesus baptized 11 people, that was equal to the dove landing on their shoulder as they could hear the voice of God after that.
Satan kissing Him was enough that Jesus would be more than willing to chain him up and put him in the prison for sinful immortals. The fallen angels there are all the 'sons of God' from Ge:6.

5. What did Jesus promise one of the criminals being executed alongside him, and why did he make that promise?

Jesus was sent to the same location as Jonah. Any mortal in the grave and still awake is in Hell. It is a locked cage in a place know as 'the Pit'. The angels that sinned in Ge:6 were put there by 10,000 holy angels during the flood. Jonah was alone when he was there, Jesus had the ones beside him there as well as the OT Saints that were resurrected and ascended to the Re:4 temple to fulfill the role of the 24 Elders. The two on the crosses would have gone to sleep and wait for their resurrection to life.

6. What do we learn from Jesus’ words to the criminal?

His voice is the one in Re:10 that is given the Book of Life to read from. The people destined to be alive are the names read (Re:20:4 as well as Da:12:1-2 as they are the same event)
Re:10:5-7:
And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven,
And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever,
who created heaven,
and the things that therein are,
and the earth,
and the things that therein are,
and the sea,
and the things which are therein,
that there should be time no longer:
But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel,
when he shall begin to sound,
the mystery of God should be finished,
as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

7. What did Jesus say to Mary and John, as recorded at John 19:26, 27, and why did he say this?

Lu:24:10:
It was Mary Magdalene,
and Joanna,
and Mary the mother of James,
and other women that were with them,
which told these things unto the apostles.

There were no Apostles at the cross, it was only women. Jesus was setting things up so Mary of Bethany, aka beloved Disciple of John the Baptist, would be the only person the verse below is referencing.

Re:21:9-10:
And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues,
and talked with me,
saying,
Come hither,
I will shew thee the bride,
the Lamb's wife.
And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain,
and shewed me that great city,
the holy Jerusalem,
descending out of heaven from God,


8. What can we learn from Jesus’ words to Mary and John?

'John' in that setting is the beloved Disciple of John the Baptist. It was also telling us that the person who took His mother home was Mary of Bethany. When Stephen was killed she led many Christians to Asia where 7 Churches were established.

Ro:16:6:
Greet Mary,
who bestowed much labour on us.

God would reject any believer who does not know that Mary wrote the Gospel of John and the Revelation of John.

9. What do Jesus’ words recorded at Matthew 27:46 tell us?

God would cause Him the grief the prophecy says would happen.

M't:26:39:
And he went a little further,
and fell on his face,
and prayed,
saying,
O my Father,
if it be possible,
let this cup pass from me:
nevertheless not as I will,
but as thou wilt.

Isa:53:10:
Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him;
he hath put him to grief:
when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin,
he shall see his seed,
he shall prolong his days,
and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

Ge:3:15:
And I will put enmity between thee and the woman,
and between thy seed and her seed;
it shall bruise thy head,
and thou shalt bruise his heel.

10. covered already

I'm not disagreeing [or agreeing] necessarily, with the rest, just wanted to address this part.

"Tear down this temple and after 3 days I will raise it up." ["temple of his body", his disciples, the foundation stones of which he is "the head of the corner"]

Enters "heart of the earth" [?]--
Jesus asked them to "keep watch" with him in Garden of Gethsemane [part of Passover "observance" since the first one, which they were to eat standing up, dressed and ready to travel], but they all fell asleep, these earthen "am ha'aretz".

Then Jesus arrested, was "tried" -in a manner showing just how corrupted and beastly that "generation" of leadership had become.
and even Peter denied knowing him, before that night ["Thursday", Nisan 14, 33CE] ended.


Luke 24 But on the first day of the week, they came very early to the tomb, bringing the spices they had prepared.


22 But they found the stone rolled away from the tomb

“Why are you looking for the living one among the dead?
6
He is not here, but has been raised up. Recall how he spoke to you while he was yet in Galilee,
7 saying that the Son of man must be handed over to sinful men and be executed on the stake and on the third day rise....

But look! on that very day, two of them were traveling to a village named Emmaus, about seven miles from Jerusalem,
14 and they were conversing with each other about all these things that had happened.
15 Now as they were conversing and discussing these things, Jesus himself approached and began walking with them,
16 but their eyes were kept from recognizing him.

-until they reached Emmaus at the end of the "third day" ["Sunday" Nisan 16, 33 CE] and the dawning of fourth

30 And as he was dining* with them, he took the bread, blessed it, broke it, and began handing it to them.
31 At that their eyes were fully opened and they recognized him; but he disappeared from them.

32 And they said to each other: “Were not our hearts burning within us as he was speaking to us on the road, as he was fully opening up* the Scriptures to us?”

Disciples/household/ foundation stones began to be raised up after three days.

Last Edited by chauchat on 07/20/2021 04:32 PM

If Jehovah had actually forsaken Jesus would that mean his sacrifice was invalid?

are you maybe referring to something like this?--

37 “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the killer of the prophets and stoner of those sent to her—how often I wanted to gather your children together the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings! But you did not want it. 38 Look! Your house is abandoned to you. 39 For I say to you, you will by no means see me from now until you say, ‘Blessed is the one who comes in Jehovah’s name!’” [Matt 23]

No I mean Jehovah did not forsake Jesus, I don't understand what he meant, afterwards he said "It has been accomplished".

Instructions on why you do not hold a grudge. A grudge is a cancer on your soul. It blinds you with wrath - one of 7 deadly sins. It is a distinct choice to forego circumscribing your desires and keeping your passions within due bounds.

It only punishes the holder and not the target. It is heavy baggage best sat down and let be. However, as some may insist, it is human nature. Most adult humans are emotionally immature exhibiting juvenile and base reactions to situations that merit thought and contemplation.

We see this immaturity in political theatre that has so divided US. All self-righteous in their own mind.....yet, each of them fail to realize the simplest truth that an argument is never "won". It is a mission of folly.

The lost ones are captive in their own bloodlust. The desire to cut loose upon their perceived enemies believing their own taste of victory will satiate their need to "be right". Their longing to destroy those that are different from them will validate their misguided agenda.

Modern society is a cult of violence that has been carefully tended by the malevolent gardeners. You know who they are, yet you are blind to see. Your pride has blossomed and set fruit, not realizing it is not you that eats of it.

As all men do right in their own heart, their bloodlust is justified by the idea that when the boogeyman is no more, the victors will sit around in a field of flowers singing songs, playing with their children, and looking forward to the heaven on Earth they have won.

The reality is that man is man, and the cycle continues. The snake will eat its own tail in time. Save yourself. If everyone did this, there is no boogeyman. The sinner is redeemed, the neighbor is welcome, and the prodigal son comes home.

If there is a God, who is all-powerful and all-knowing, why did he feel the need to sacrifice his son? Who should be forgiving whom?

How Is Jesus’ Sacrifice “a Ransom for Many”?

The Bible’s answer Jesus’ sacrifice is the means by which God delivers, or saves, humankind from sin and death. The Bible refers to the shed blood of Jesus as a ransom price. (Ephesians 1:7; 1 Peter 1:18, 19) Thus, Jesus said that he came “to give his life a ransom for many.”—Matthew 20:28, King James Version. Why was “a ransom for many” needed?

Just as everyone pays the highest price for inherited sin, death, so Jehovah paid the highest price to balance the scales, his son's death as a ransom for everyone's sins. Jesus could have declined, he too paid the highest price.

What does that mean, eternal life?

So, if God is all-powerful why did he need to pay a "ransom?" Why didn't he just decide to forgive his "only human" creations. Jesus was a good first century rabbi. No God need be involved.

Sin/disobedience is not a look the other way problem, it would go from bad to worse like a plague, the price must be paid. The issue is Adam was perfect, his offspring somehow inherited sin from him and are all defective and die. To bail out his sinful offspring from their condition a perfect life had to surrendered in exchange to balance the scales so to speak. Jesus took perfect human form, equal to Adam to provide the ransom.

Last Edited by DGN on 07/05/2021 02:34 PM

The bruise in Isa:53 is referencing the bruise to the heel from Ge:3:15, His death was the completion of all things to do with that bruise. That Is why God is glad that Jesus allowed himself to be killed. It allows God to send all fallen angels to the fiery lake.