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Electric car batteries poor cold performance...just have them in insulated compartment with small heater...flaps opens when warm out...why not?

 
Anonymous Coward
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06/04/2021 09:35 AM
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Electric car batteries poor cold performance...just have them in insulated compartment with small heater...flaps opens when warm out...why not?
Just wondering
Anonymous Coward
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United States
06/04/2021 09:37 AM
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Re: Electric car batteries poor cold performance...just have them in insulated compartment with small heater...flaps opens when warm out...why not?
.

Low volume, high r value materials are very expensive.

.
Anonymous Coward
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United Kingdom
06/04/2021 09:39 AM
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Re: Electric car batteries poor cold performance...just have them in insulated compartment with small heater...flaps opens when warm out...why not?
yes electric cars performance is very bad in cold climate
most of the liquids cant be changed by the driver


heating up the car takes almost 30% of your mileage
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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06/04/2021 09:40 AM
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Re: Electric car batteries poor cold performance...just have them in insulated compartment with small heater...flaps opens when warm out...why not?
.

Low volume, high r value materials are very expensive.

.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 65571479


Beer coolers aren't expensive
Anonymous Coward
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06/04/2021 09:40 AM
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Re: Electric car batteries poor cold performance...just have them in insulated compartment with small heater...flaps opens when warm out...why not?
plus side

batteries are good if we are really heading to zombie apocalypse
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 76114335
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06/04/2021 10:39 AM
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Re: Electric car batteries poor cold performance...just have them in insulated compartment with small heater...flaps opens when warm out...why not?
Possible to have electronic controlled thermoregulation that insinuates batteries when vehicle is not being used, such as when garaged. Then, redirect some frictional heat through a heat exchanger built into insulative housing, which will be governed by a temperature sensor to maintain optimal ambient temp of battery electrochemistry throughout stop start.

So, the only additional energy consumed will be initial warming up period, should heat gradient favour external ambient temp. Similarly to old school diesel tech, where glow plugs were used to warm up cylinder bores before actually cranking engine, to assist in autoignition. Likewise, the batteries can be warmed up.

However, to minimize shortening lifespan of batteries, they really should never be stored in temps below their optimal range. So, if the vehicle is being stored in extreme temps, the batteries should be stored in an environment with climate control. Since this becomes costly to achieve, it is unlikely to be incorporated into design, especially if business model is to maximise profits by selling you new batteries often as possible.

Regardless, the end user consumer will need to isolate batteries and remodel if wanting maximum longetivity, which is still time and money.

Easier, cheaper and more practical to use combustion or compression engine technology.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 76114335
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06/04/2021 10:39 AM
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Re: Electric car batteries poor cold performance...just have them in insulated compartment with small heater...flaps opens when warm out...why not?
*insulates
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 76114335
Australia
06/04/2021 10:50 AM
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Re: Electric car batteries poor cold performance...just have them in insulated compartment with small heater...flaps opens when warm out...why not?
plus side

batteries are good if we are really heading to zombie apocalypse
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 80446564


Subjective. Argument can be made for biodiesel and ethanol too. Situational, environment, climate, skill set, knowledge etc dependant.

Batteries (i.e. for EVs) are NOT good if:
- cold temps
- no available input charge (regardless the type of controller and input type)
- short cycled (Li*)
- short circuit (such as from a fender bender)
- high temps
- over voltage

Pros and cons. Best to have a bit of each technology. Don't have eggs in one basket.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 65571479
United States
06/04/2021 10:51 AM
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Re: Electric car batteries poor cold performance...just have them in insulated compartment with small heater...flaps opens when warm out...why not?
.

Low volume, high r value materials are very expensive.

.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 65571479


Beer coolers aren't expensive
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 35913160


lol, there are manufacturers of insulating materials. here are a handful:

[link to blog.marianinc.com (secure)]

Perhaps they have not considered the "beer cooler" approach

chuckle
DuckNCover

User ID: 40901041
United States
06/04/2021 11:03 AM

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Re: Electric car batteries poor cold performance...just have them in insulated compartment with small heater...flaps opens when warm out...why not?
Possible to have electronic controlled thermoregulation that insinuates batteries when vehicle is not being used, such as when garaged. Then, redirect some frictional heat through a heat exchanger built into insulative housing, which will be governed by a temperature sensor to maintain optimal ambient temp of battery electrochemistry throughout stop start.

So, the only additional energy consumed will be initial warming up period, should heat gradient favour external ambient temp. Similarly to old school diesel tech, where glow plugs were used to warm up cylinder bores before actually cranking engine, to assist in autoignition. Likewise, the batteries can be warmed up.

However, to minimize shortening lifespan of batteries, they really should never be stored in temps below their optimal range. So, if the vehicle is being stored in extreme temps, the batteries should be stored in an environment with climate control. Since this becomes costly to achieve, it is unlikely to be incorporated into design, especially if business model is to maximise profits by selling you new batteries often as possible.

Regardless, the end user consumer will need to isolate batteries and remodel if wanting maximum longetivity, which is still time and money.

Easier, cheaper and more practical to use combustion or compression engine technology.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 76114335


bump
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 71190574
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06/04/2021 11:18 AM
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Re: Electric car batteries poor cold performance...just have them in insulated compartment with small heater...flaps opens when warm out...why not?
You can buy battery warmers.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 80433103
Chile
06/04/2021 11:30 AM
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Re: Electric car batteries poor cold performance...just have them in insulated compartment with small heater...flaps opens when warm out...why not?
You can buy battery warmers.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 71190574


Which send an electrical current through a material surrounding the battery, like a heating pad.

This is powered by another battery, positioned below the first battery. Which is, in turn, warmed by a third battery, kept below the second battery.

Which is warmed by a fourth battery, kept below the third battery.

And on an on it goes...
Anonymous Coward
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06/04/2021 11:31 AM
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Re: Electric car batteries poor cold performance...just have them in insulated compartment with small heater...flaps opens when warm out...why not?
.

[link to www.theverge.com (secure)]

.
Anonymous Coward
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06/04/2021 11:42 AM
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Re: Electric car batteries poor cold performance...just have them in insulated compartment with small heater...flaps opens when warm out...why not?
I been doing that but the heater draws down the battery.
Justme C'est Moi

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06/04/2021 11:50 AM

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Re: Electric car batteries poor cold performance...just have them in insulated compartment with small heater...flaps opens when warm out...why not?
Because when they overheat, they explode like hand grenades in poison lava. ANd your heating/insulation system will of course fail on occasion and lead to disaster.

Last Edited by JustmeTX on 06/04/2021 11:50 AM
Justme
Anonymous Coward
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United States
06/04/2021 11:54 AM
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Re: Electric car batteries poor cold performance...just have them in insulated compartment with small heater...flaps opens when warm out...why not?
You can buy battery warmers.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 71190574


Do you NOT understand how much electrical energy it takes to heat up a thousand pounds of batteries from zero to 72 degrees?

Free lunch, MUCH?
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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06/04/2021 12:24 PM
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Re: Electric car batteries poor cold performance...just have them in insulated compartment with small heater...flaps opens when warm out...why not?
You can buy battery warmers.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 71190574


Do you NOT understand how much electrical energy it takes to heat up a thousand pounds of batteries from zero to 72 degrees?

Free lunch, MUCH?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 46719814


".just have them in insulated compartment with small heater...flaps opens when warm out.."

They would never get cold with the insulation and small heater. To maintain a thousand pounds of batteries at say 70 degrees in a well insulated container would use almost no energy
Wayfaring Stranger

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06/04/2021 12:39 PM
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Re: Electric car batteries poor cold performance...just have them in insulated compartment with small heater...flaps opens when warm out...why not?
A small heating pad does wonders for my e-bike. -0C and colder mostly
Anonymous Coward
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06/04/2021 12:49 PM
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Re: Electric car batteries poor cold performance...just have them in insulated compartment with small heater...flaps opens when warm out...why not?
The sienna is set up with a blower on the battery pack that exchanges air with the cabin.
Electric car designs are more concerned about overheating than cold packs.
Most electric car customers do not live in snowbelts. Teslas are barely even cold tested, the toy cars get totally trashed by snow and salt.
Drone Rider

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United States
06/04/2021 01:02 PM
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Re: Electric car batteries poor cold performance...just have them in insulated compartment with small heater...flaps opens when warm out...why not?
The simple method is to have a sensor that detects the temp
and have the lights kick on at the freeze level to use the battery power which in turn will keep the fluid in the battery warm. or if you live in cold country have a special solar cell to fast charge a bank of capacitors for the batteries to run off of.
Drone Rider-Retired Satellite Launch Officer





GLP