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Derek Chauvin Trial - Day 14 - LiveStream

 
here&back

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04/15/2021 04:12 PM

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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial - Day 14 - LiveStream
And with this drug it didn't need the entire pill to be swallowed, but merely absorbed partially lingually to be absorbed into the bloodstream. Think Fentanyl patch. So the argument about no pills in his stomach is laughable.
 Quoting: 18328


Well the defense really dropped the ball in that case not bringing up any testimony to this.

It was a pretty big point brought up by the prosecutor that no pills were found in the stomach contents and it was never refuted by the defense.

But I still don't think that's a likely scenario. If the drugs made it into his system by absorption through the mouth in quantities to cause an overdose, he would have been unconscious earlier.

Once it's in your bloodstream, the effect is immediate... that's why people who OD from injection are found dead with the needle in their arm still.

He was in cuffs for 17 minutes before losing consciousness it just seems too long for an OD with no pills being found in his stomach.

Dr. Fowler backs me up on this, suggesting it was a sudden cardiac event and not a slow asphyxiation.

And OD doesn't stop your heart, it stops your breathing which eventually stops your heart.
 Quoting: R. Wordsworth


Yeah I was wondering why the defense didn’t discuss the partially dissolved angle in the mouth. Also, do homemade pills dissolve faster in the stomach? Given the excruciating detail all the minutiae was talked about in this case I found it surprising this wasn’t raised. But maybe that tells us it wasn’t a good angle for the defense for some reason.
 Quoting: Corporal Punishment


Honestly I'm surprised the defense rested all ready - there were more issues/angles that could have been brought to question.
Corporal Punishment

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04/15/2021 04:16 PM
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial - Day 14 - LiveStream
And with this drug it didn't need the entire pill to be swallowed, but merely absorbed partially lingually to be absorbed into the bloodstream. Think Fentanyl patch. So the argument about no pills in his stomach is laughable.
 Quoting: 18328


Well the defense really dropped the ball in that case not bringing up any testimony to this.

It was a pretty big point brought up by the prosecutor that no pills were found in the stomach contents and it was never refuted by the defense.

But I still don't think that's a likely scenario. If the drugs made it into his system by absorption through the mouth in quantities to cause an overdose, he would have been unconscious earlier.

Once it's in your bloodstream, the effect is immediate... that's why people who OD from injection are found dead with the needle in their arm still.

He was in cuffs for 17 minutes before losing consciousness it just seems too long for an OD with no pills being found in his stomach.

Dr. Fowler backs me up on this, suggesting it was a sudden cardiac event and not a slow asphyxiation.

And OD doesn't stop your heart, it stops your breathing which eventually stops your heart.
 Quoting: R. Wordsworth


Yeah I was wondering why the defense didn’t discuss the partially dissolved angle in the mouth. Also, do homemade pills dissolve faster in the stomach? Given the excruciating detail all the minutiae was talked about in this case I found it surprising this wasn’t raised. But maybe that tells us it wasn’t a good angle for the defense for some reason.
 Quoting: Corporal Punishment


Honestly I'm surprised the defense rested all ready - there were more issues/angles that could have been brought to question.
 Quoting: here&back


My amateur guess is that means he thinks he really hit it out of the park with his forensic pathologist. He wanted to end on a high note. Nelson is able to watch the jury. And the prosecution was enraged by the defenses expert and carbon monoxide testimony. So yesterday was a great day for the defense.
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04/15/2021 04:17 PM
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial - Day 14 - LiveStream
I would acquit him. But I have bad feeling the Jury is going to find him guilty on all counts.
 Quoting: BBQ BOY™


Same here. Now that its essentially over does anyone think he walks?
18328

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04/15/2021 04:21 PM
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial - Day 14 - LiveStream
And with this drug it didn't need the entire pill to be swallowed, but merely absorbed partially lingually to be absorbed into the bloodstream. Think Fentanyl patch. So the argument about no pills in his stomach is laughable.
 Quoting: 18328


Well the defense really dropped the ball in that case not bringing up any testimony to this.

It was a pretty big point brought up by the prosecutor that no pills were found in the stomach contents and it was never refuted by the defense.

But I still don't think that's a likely scenario. If the drugs made it into his system by absorption through the mouth in quantities to cause an overdose, he would have been unconscious earlier.

Once it's in your bloodstream, the effect is immediate... that's why people who OD from injection are found dead with the needle in their arm still.

He was in cuffs for 17 minutes before losing consciousness it just seems too long for an OD with no pills being found in his stomach.

Dr. Fowler backs me up on this, suggesting it was a sudden cardiac event and not a slow asphyxiation.

And OD doesn't stop your heart, it stops your breathing which eventually stops your heart.
 Quoting: R. Wordsworth


Yeah I was wondering why the defense didn’t discuss the partially dissolved angle in the mouth. Also, do homemade pills dissolve faster in the stomach? Given the excruciating detail all the minutiae was talked about in this case I found it surprising this wasn’t raised. But maybe that tells us it wasn’t a good angle for the defense for some reason.
 Quoting: Corporal Punishment


I believe earlier testimony only mentioned Floyd's DNA on some partially dissolved pills found in the Benz. I also wondered if one was indeed found in the squad car and if they in turn were tested.

And I am also surprised, in hindsight that the defense did not explore this more unless this would have been an objectional line of questioning for the prosecution. I do think it held a great deal of relevance though.
ParamedicUK

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04/15/2021 04:22 PM

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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial - Day 14 - LiveStream
I would acquit him. But I have bad feeling the Jury is going to find him guilty on all counts.
 Quoting: BBQ BOY™


Same here. Now that its essentially over does anyone think he walks?
 Quoting: Micdub


Funny isn’t it. I like many watched the original footage on TV and thought he was literally murdered on the floor. However when you start hearing all the evidence of past convictions, behaviour, drug usage etc you think that the force may have been required and the officer is not to blame ?
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here&back

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04/15/2021 04:24 PM

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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial - Day 14 - LiveStream
...


Well the defense really dropped the ball in that case not bringing up any testimony to this.

It was a pretty big point brought up by the prosecutor that no pills were found in the stomach contents and it was never refuted by the defense.

But I still don't think that's a likely scenario. If the drugs made it into his system by absorption through the mouth in quantities to cause an overdose, he would have been unconscious earlier.

Once it's in your bloodstream, the effect is immediate... that's why people who OD from injection are found dead with the needle in their arm still.

He was in cuffs for 17 minutes before losing consciousness it just seems too long for an OD with no pills being found in his stomach.

Dr. Fowler backs me up on this, suggesting it was a sudden cardiac event and not a slow asphyxiation.

And OD doesn't stop your heart, it stops your breathing which eventually stops your heart.
 Quoting: R. Wordsworth


Yeah I was wondering why the defense didn’t discuss the partially dissolved angle in the mouth. Also, do homemade pills dissolve faster in the stomach? Given the excruciating detail all the minutiae was talked about in this case I found it surprising this wasn’t raised. But maybe that tells us it wasn’t a good angle for the defense for some reason.
 Quoting: Corporal Punishment


Honestly I'm surprised the defense rested all ready - there were more issues/angles that could have been brought to question.
 Quoting: here&back


My amateur guess is that means he thinks he really hit it out of the park with his forensic pathologist. He wanted to end on a high note. Nelson is able to watch the jury. And the prosecution was enraged by the defenses expert and carbon monoxide testimony. So yesterday was a great day for the defense.
 Quoting: Corporal Punishment


True - why muddy up the waters
18328

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04/15/2021 04:34 PM
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial - Day 14 - LiveStream
I would acquit him. But I have bad feeling the Jury is going to find him guilty on all counts.
 Quoting: BBQ BOY™


Same here. Now that its essentially over does anyone think he walks?
 Quoting: Micdub


They could appeal anyway, yes?
here&back

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04/15/2021 04:37 PM

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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial - Day 14 - LiveStream
I would acquit him. But I have bad feeling the Jury is going to find him guilty on all counts.
 Quoting: BBQ BOY™


Same here. Now that its essentially over does anyone think he walks?
 Quoting: Micdub


They could appeal anyway, yes?
 Quoting: 18328


Have to ask, why would you think the jury will find him guilty on all counts? How could they really unless they're afraid or retribution?
And then, that's not based on testimony.
ITSARICHMANSGAME

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04/15/2021 04:39 PM
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial - Day 14 - LiveStream


Putting pressure on the jury to get unanimous.
The more I know, the crazier I appear to be.

"THE ONLY WAY TO DEAL WITH AN UNFREE WORLD IS TO BECOME SO ABSOLUTELY FREE THAT YOUR VERY EXISTENCE IS AN ACT OF REBELLION" -ALBERT CAMUS

No brains, no pain.

The Difference Between Stupidity and Genius Is That Genius Has Its Limits
here&back

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04/15/2021 04:41 PM

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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial - Day 14 - LiveStream


Putting pressure on the jury to get unanimous.
 Quoting: ITSARICHMANSGAME


Those are the only charges they can consider?
ITSARICHMANSGAME

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04/15/2021 04:45 PM
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial - Day 14 - LiveStream
I would acquit him. But I have bad feeling the Jury is going to find him guilty on all counts.
 Quoting: BBQ BOY™


Same here. Now that its essentially over does anyone think he walks?
 Quoting: Micdub


*I* would, but I don't know any of those 12, so I won't speculate.
The more I know, the crazier I appear to be.

"THE ONLY WAY TO DEAL WITH AN UNFREE WORLD IS TO BECOME SO ABSOLUTELY FREE THAT YOUR VERY EXISTENCE IS AN ACT OF REBELLION" -ALBERT CAMUS

No brains, no pain.

The Difference Between Stupidity and Genius Is That Genius Has Its Limits
ITSARICHMANSGAME

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04/15/2021 04:46 PM
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial - Day 14 - LiveStream


Putting pressure on the jury to get unanimous.
 Quoting: ITSARICHMANSGAME


Those are the only charges they can consider?
 Quoting: here&back


Yuppers. That's what the State charged him with, nothing else can be considered.
The more I know, the crazier I appear to be.

"THE ONLY WAY TO DEAL WITH AN UNFREE WORLD IS TO BECOME SO ABSOLUTELY FREE THAT YOUR VERY EXISTENCE IS AN ACT OF REBELLION" -ALBERT CAMUS

No brains, no pain.

The Difference Between Stupidity and Genius Is That Genius Has Its Limits
Lady Jayne SmithModerator
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04/15/2021 04:49 PM

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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial - Day 14 - LiveStream


Putting pressure on the jury to get unanimous.
 Quoting: ITSARICHMANSGAME


Those are the only charges they can consider?
 Quoting: here&back


Yuppers. That's what the State charged him with, nothing else can be considered.
 Quoting: ITSARICHMANSGAME


... and when this is likely a hung jury, he cannot be tried again for the same crimes. Double Jeopardy.

I think.
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"You cannot withstand the storm"

the warrior whispers back

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Simple27

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04/15/2021 04:49 PM

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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial - Day 14 - LiveStream
... and when this is likely a hung jury, he cannot be tried again for the same crimes. Double Jeopardy.

I think.
 Quoting: Lady Jayne Smith


yep
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here&back

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04/15/2021 04:53 PM

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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial - Day 14 - LiveStream


Putting pressure on the jury to get unanimous.
 Quoting: ITSARICHMANSGAME


Those are the only charges they can consider?
 Quoting: here&back


Yuppers. That's what the State charged him with, nothing else can be considered.
 Quoting: ITSARICHMANSGAME


Ok, sorry, didn't realize that. So it's one of these or acquittal -
Well, they won't acquit and by the time he's done his sentence there will be 10+ more other cases and they'll have forgotten all about him.
18328

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04/15/2021 04:57 PM
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial - Day 14 - LiveStream


Putting pressure on the jury to get unanimous.
 Quoting: ITSARICHMANSGAME


Those are the only charges they can consider?
 Quoting: here&back


Yuppers. That's what the State charged him with, nothing else can be considered.
 Quoting: ITSARICHMANSGAME


I see a hung jury at any rate. Do we know what the demographics of the jury are? I would be willing to bet any middle aged Caucasian will not find the state's case compelling enough to convict. That may sound biased, but I base it upon the time in which someone was raised and what their true beliefs are. The evidence is just not concrete in any case.
Herr Decider

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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial - Day 14 - LiveStream
And with this drug it didn't need the entire pill to be swallowed, but merely absorbed partially lingually to be absorbed into the bloodstream. Think Fentanyl patch. So the argument about no pills in his stomach is laughable.
 Quoting: 18328


Well the defense really dropped the ball in that case not bringing up any testimony to this.

It was a pretty big point brought up by the prosecutor that no pills were found in the stomach contents and it was never refuted by the defense.

But I still don't think that's a likely scenario. If the drugs made it into his system by absorption through the mouth in quantities to cause an overdose, he would have been unconscious earlier.

Once it's in your bloodstream, the effect is immediate... that's why people who OD from injection are found dead with the needle in their arm still.

He was in cuffs for 17 minutes before losing consciousness it just seems too long for an OD with no pills being found in his stomach.

Dr. Fowler backs me up on this, suggesting it was a sudden cardiac event and not a slow asphyxiation.

And OD doesn't stop your heart, it stops your breathing which eventually stops your heart.
 Quoting: R. Wordsworth


You are partially correct, but having firsthand experience with this I stand by my statement. We lost a family member several years ago due to a leaking Fentanyl patch. Yes we were compensated, but the fact remains when the drug is absorbed through soft tissue, it can and does take time to create a level of concentration to become a fatal dose. This is exactly what happened in the case of my late brother in law. It was not instantaneous.
 Quoting: 18328


and don't forget, Big Floyd was more than likely highly tolerant to his speedball components.

I was also stunned about the "no pills in the stomach" narrative after obviously seeing Floyd chomp on the stuff on video.

He was hyper adrenalized directly after chomping on that Fent b/c he knew he was going to jail. So while it did enter his bloodstream and go to work quickly, he was in fight or flight the next 20 minutes and that counteracted the Fent until the end when his O2 supply got so low that the Fent could then retard his respiration and metabolism enough to seal the deal.
Augmented by Grace
here&back

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04/15/2021 05:00 PM

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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial - Day 14 - LiveStream
... and when this is likely a hung jury, he cannot be tried again for the same crimes. Double Jeopardy.

I think.
 Quoting: Lady Jayne Smith


yep
 Quoting: Simple27


ha - know we can't bet, but would be an interesting poll after the final arguments - there's really only 4 outcome options right?
Personally wouldn't think murder 2 or 3, but the other 2?
OR - the prize as stated above - hung jury???
Herr Decider

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04/15/2021 05:02 PM
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial - Day 14 - LiveStream
 Quoting: BBQ BOY™


Putting pressure on the jury to get unanimous.
 Quoting: ITSARICHMANSGAME


Those are the only charges they can consider?
 Quoting: here&back


Yuppers. That's what the State charged him with, nothing else can be considered.
 Quoting: ITSARICHMANSGAME


It seems this pattern of overcharging in cases like this is counterproductive.

The mob riots just after the death, and the overcharge comes too late to save the city from looting and mayhem.

Then the State can't win the case, the cops walk, and the mob goes crazy a second time.

Either counterproductive, or calculated for the end result, either way, justice has left the building.
Augmented by Grace
Simple27

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04/15/2021 05:13 PM

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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial - Day 14 - LiveStream
I see a hung jury at any rate. Do we know what the demographics of the jury are? I would be willing to bet any middle aged Caucasian will not find the state's case compelling enough to convict. That may sound biased, but I base it upon the time in which someone was raised and what their true beliefs are. The evidence is just not concrete in any case.
 Quoting: 18328


https://imgur.com/a/ZvvtRlT

~*Ride the Wave*~
18328

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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial - Day 14 - LiveStream
And with this drug it didn't need the entire pill to be swallowed, but merely absorbed partially lingually to be absorbed into the bloodstream. Think Fentanyl patch. So the argument about no pills in his stomach is laughable.
 Quoting: 18328


Well the defense really dropped the ball in that case not bringing up any testimony to this.

It was a pretty big point brought up by the prosecutor that no pills were found in the stomach contents and it was never refuted by the defense.

But I still don't think that's a likely scenario. If the drugs made it into his system by absorption through the mouth in quantities to cause an overdose, he would have been unconscious earlier.

Once it's in your bloodstream, the effect is immediate... that's why people who OD from injection are found dead with the needle in their arm still.

He was in cuffs for 17 minutes before losing consciousness it just seems too long for an OD with no pills being found in his stomach.

Dr. Fowler backs me up on this, suggesting it was a sudden cardiac event and not a slow asphyxiation.

And OD doesn't stop your heart, it stops your breathing which eventually stops your heart.
 Quoting: R. Wordsworth


You are partially correct, but having firsthand experience with this I stand by my statement. We lost a family member several years ago due to a leaking Fentanyl patch. Yes we were compensated, but the fact remains when the drug is absorbed through soft tissue, it can and does take time to create a level of concentration to become a fatal dose. This is exactly what happened in the case of my late brother in law. It was not instantaneous.
 Quoting: 18328


and don't forget, Big Floyd was more than likely highly tolerant to his speedball components.

I was also stunned about the "no pills in the stomach" narrative after obviously seeing Floyd chomp on the stuff on video.

He was hyper adrenalized directly after chomping on that Fent b/c he knew he was going to jail. So while it did enter his bloodstream and go to work quickly, he was in fight or flight the next 20 minutes and that counteracted the Fent until the end when his O2 supply got so low that the Fent could then retard his respiration and metabolism enough to seal the deal.
 Quoting: Herr Decider


And instead of the facts, the state used paid 'expert witnesses' to drive their coached narrative home. It's really not rocket science, and Chauvin is not n trial because he didn't render aid. Of that he may be guilty, but murder or manslaughter? I just don't agree.
18328

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04/15/2021 05:17 PM
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial - Day 14 - LiveStream
I see a hung jury at any rate. Do we know what the demographics of the jury are? I would be willing to bet any middle aged Caucasian will not find the state's case compelling enough to convict. That may sound biased, but I base it upon the time in which someone was raised and what their true beliefs are. The evidence is just not concrete in any case.
 Quoting: 18328


https://imgur.com/a/ZvvtRlT

 Quoting: Simple27


And that's what they call a jury of his peers?
ITSARICHMANSGAME

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04/15/2021 05:18 PM
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial - Day 14 - LiveStream
Three possibilities exist in the event of a hung jury...the State can retry the case, the State can dismiss charges, or the State can try a plea bargain.

Double jepardy doesn't come into play because any type of mistrial is considered that the first trial never happened at all.
The more I know, the crazier I appear to be.

"THE ONLY WAY TO DEAL WITH AN UNFREE WORLD IS TO BECOME SO ABSOLUTELY FREE THAT YOUR VERY EXISTENCE IS AN ACT OF REBELLION" -ALBERT CAMUS

No brains, no pain.

The Difference Between Stupidity and Genius Is That Genius Has Its Limits
here&back

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04/15/2021 05:20 PM

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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial - Day 14 - LiveStream
I see a hung jury at any rate. Do we know what the demographics of the jury are? I would be willing to bet any middle aged Caucasian will not find the state's case compelling enough to convict. That may sound biased, but I base it upon the time in which someone was raised and what their true beliefs are. The evidence is just not concrete in any case.
 Quoting: 18328


https://imgur.com/a/ZvvtRlT

 Quoting: Simple27


And that's what they call a jury of his peers?
 Quoting: 18328


True - intereting.
BBQ BOY™  (OP)

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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial - Day 14 - LiveStream
...


Putting pressure on the jury to get unanimous.
 Quoting: ITSARICHMANSGAME


Those are the only charges they can consider?
 Quoting: here&back


Yuppers. That's what the State charged him with, nothing else can be considered.
 Quoting: ITSARICHMANSGAME


... and when this is likely a hung jury, he cannot be tried again for the same crimes. Double Jeopardy.

I think.
 Quoting: Lady Jayne Smith


In a hung Jury case, its up to the Prosecution what happens next. They can dismiss all charges or they can Retry.
"Never underestimate the pain of a person. In all honesty, everyone is struggling. Just some people are better at hiding it than others."

Everyone has to work out their own salvation.

Life can only be understood backwards, but it must be lived forwards.
Corporal Punishment

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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial - Day 14 - LiveStream
...


Putting pressure on the jury to get unanimous.
 Quoting: ITSARICHMANSGAME


Those are the only charges they can consider?
 Quoting: here&back


Yuppers. That's what the State charged him with, nothing else can be considered.
 Quoting: ITSARICHMANSGAME


... and when this is likely a hung jury, he cannot be tried again for the same crimes. Double Jeopardy.

I think.
 Quoting: Lady Jayne Smith


Actually a hung jury results in a mistrial. If so, the state can, and with this case obviously will, retry.

If convicted Chauvin can appeal.

If acquitted then that is it. Chauvin is free and the state cannot try him again. Except, the federal government could charge him with civil rights violations. They are already going after him for taxes. That is part of the witch hunt.

They feds don’t go after every drug dealer for tax crimes. The city police wasn’t going to arrest Floyd for DUI. The city police weren’t going to try to get a drug charge. The enforcement of the law is all selective and political now.
Corporal Punishment

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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial - Day 14 - LiveStream
If Chauvin gets convicted he’ll appeal and the case should be retried. There is no way this should have been tried in Minneapolis. Worse, an actual police shooting and death occurred during the trial. This resulted in a riot and curfew being imposed. A city councilwoman of Brooklyn Circle said she voted to fire the city manager because she was afraid if she didn’t she would be targeted by the mob.

You have, on the record, a city council member saying she voted a certain way out of fear. A juror lives in that city. It would be a grave injustice, like the trial itself, to not overturn on appeal.
18328

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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial - Day 14 - LiveStream
...


Those are the only charges they can consider?
 Quoting: here&back


Yuppers. That's what the State charged him with, nothing else can be considered.
 Quoting: ITSARICHMANSGAME


... and when this is likely a hung jury, he cannot be tried again for the same crimes. Double Jeopardy.

I think.
 Quoting: Lady Jayne Smith


Actually a hung jury results in a mistrial. If so, the state can, and with this case obviously will, retry.

If convicted Chauvin can appeal.

If acquitted then that is it. Chauvin is free and the state cannot try him again. Except, the federal government could charge him with civil rights violations. They are already going after him for taxes. That is part of the witch hunt.

They feds don’t go after every drug dealer for tax crimes. The city police wasn’t going to arrest Floyd for DUI. The city police weren’t going to try to get a drug charge. The enforcement of the law is all selective and political now.
 Quoting: Corporal Punishment


Makes you wonder then how many new trials there could be given they may continue to end in a hung jury. Obviously the MSM is playing this out to the public in hopes of creating enough pressure to obtain a guilty verdict. I wish there was at least one media outlet covering this that would be fair and honest as to what really is transpiring on a daily basis.
Simple27

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04/15/2021 06:06 PM

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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial - Day 14 - LiveStream
Three possibilities exist in the event of a hung jury...the State can retry the case, the State can dismiss charges, or the State can try a plea bargain.

Double jepardy doesn't come into play because any type of mistrial is considered that the first trial never happened at all.
 Quoting: ITSARICHMANSGAME


Yes, my bad, that's right. You can't be charged twice for the same crime.

A mistrial would invalidate the current trial, therefore they could put him back on trial for the same/current charges.

Thank you for clarifying that. :)

hf
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BBQ BOY™  (OP)

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04/15/2021 06:22 PM
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Re: Derek Chauvin Trial - Day 14 - LiveStream
Three possibilities exist in the event of a hung jury...the State can retry the case, the State can dismiss charges, or the State can try a plea bargain.

Double jepardy doesn't come into play because any type of mistrial is considered that the first trial never happened at all.
 Quoting: ITSARICHMANSGAME


Yes, my bad, that's right. You can't be charged twice for the same crime.

A mistrial would invalidate the current trial, therefore they could put him back on trial for the same/current charges.

Thank you for clarifying that. :)

hf
 Quoting: Simple27


I would say the State has been in touch with the Feds on how to proceed in the event of a Hung jury / mistrial.
"Never underestimate the pain of a person. In all honesty, everyone is struggling. Just some people are better at hiding it than others."

Everyone has to work out their own salvation.

Life can only be understood backwards, but it must be lived forwards.





GLP