John 8:58 John 8:24 - "I am" means "I EXIST" from the Greek - KJV Bible Study

The point is that the "I AM" who spoke
to Moses at the "burniing bush" was Father God.

Not Jesus.

No scripture truly supports Jesus being with
and leading the Israelites out of Egypt.

If he is truly one with Him, and was with Him in the beginning, then in every sense he was with the Israelites leading them the same.

Last Edited by Zerubayah on 04/03/2021 02:36 PM

Possible I suppose but it's still pure speculation.

Jesus make no claim as such.
And scriptural evidence states otherwise also.

Thread: Jude 1:5 "Jesus Led the Israelites"? No Other Verses Say So - KJV Bible Study

Last Edited by Servant-of-the-LORD on 12/06/2021 02:35 PM

How is it pure speculation?! Jesus said exactly as much in John 10:30 (and other places), "I and my Father are one." You have a egotistical presupposition that you are forcing information to conform to rather than letting the truth present itself as it is. Every time you quote "scriptural evidence" it is with an clear lack of any actual understanding of the text and twisted to support your obviously erroneous conclusions.

Where does Jesus STATE that He was THERE with the Israelites?

He doesn't. In fact, in Luke 20, He clearly states that God (the Father - John 17:3 and 20:17) was who spoke to Moses.

Luke 20 - Jesus speaking

36 Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.

37 Now that the dead are raised, even Moses shewed at the bush, when he calleth the Lord the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.

38 For he is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him.

Mark 12 (mirrors Luke 20)

26 And as touching the dead, that they rise: have ye not read in the book of Moses, how in the bush God spake unto him, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob?

27 He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err.

.....
Isaiah establishes God as Father and Jehovah

Isaiah 12:2 Behold, God is my salvation; I will trust, and not be afraid: for the LORD JEHOVAH is my strength and my song; he also is become my salvation.

Isaiah 26:4 Trust ye in the LORD for ever: for in the LORD JEHOVAH is everlasting strength.

Isaiah also says the LORD - God - is the Father.

Isaiah 63:16 Doubtless thou art our father, though Abraham be ignorant of us, and Israel acknowledge us not: thou, O LORD, art our father, our redeemer; thy name is from everlasting.

Isaiah 64:8 But now, O LORD, thou art our father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand.

Last Edited by Servant-of-the-LORD on 12/06/2021 02:37 PM

What scripture states that wherever the Father was in the Old Testament - Jesus was physically there with Him?

NONE.

You take "the Father and I are one" out of context.

Thread: Son of God - Jesus' Relationship To The Father - John 17 and More - Bible Study

Last Edited by Servant-of-the-LORD on 04/03/2021 07:31 PM

“I and the Father Are One”

THAT text, at John 10:30, is often cited to support the Trinity, even though no third person is mentioned there. But Jesus himself showed what he meant by his being “one” with the Father.
At John 17:21, 22, he prayed to God that his disciples “may all be one, just as you, Father, are in union with me and I am in union with you, that they also may be in union with us, . . . that they may be one just as we are one.”

Was Jesus praying that all his disciples would become a single entity? No, obviously Jesus was praying that they would be united in thought and purpose, as he and God were.—See also 1 Corinthians 1:10.

At 1 Corinthians 3:6, 8, Paul says: “I planted, Apollos watered . . . He that plants and he that waters are one.”

Paul did not mean that he and Apollos were two persons in one; he meant that they were unified in purpose.

The Greek word that Paul used here for “one” (hen) is neuter, literally “one (thing),” indicating oneness in cooperation.
It is the same word that Jesus used at John 10:30 to describe his relationship with his Father.
It is also the same word that Jesus used at John 17:21, 22.

So when he used the word “one” (hen) in these cases, he was talking about unity of thought and purpose.

Briefly then, what does this mean:

John 8:58  Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

To be clear I don't neccessarily prescribe to a Trinitary Creed, although I would probably generally agree with one theologically more than disagree otherwise. The idea of a "Trinity" god is wholly a one of pagan origin and is a man made construct that adds unhelpful confusion into the clear understanding of the unity found in Christ Jesus with his Father, and that which those of his can find with Him through him.

Despite saying that, the OP is just furthering a blind confusion and lack of understanding which is offensive to the Spirit.

"Since Before Abraham, I have existed"

....

That would match what Jesus says in John 17

5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.



Last Edited by Servant-of-the-LORD on 04/04/2021 12:31 AM

"Offensive to the Spirit?"
How would YOU know?
You don't.

Jesus is the SON OF God.

The Fathe is the "I AM" / Jehovah in Exodus.

Was Jesus there too in some compacity?
Maybe - but NO reliable scripture states such.
And Jesus says the Father spoke to Moses.

John doesn't eat 24.

Yet where does Jesus say these 3 words...

"I AM God"??

Where do any othe the Apostles say...

..."Jesus IS God"???

They don't. They can't. Why?

Because the Father clearly told all the prophets...

"I AM God and there is NO ONE else"

LXX Greek Septuagint

Exodus 3:14 And Elohim said to Moshe EGO EIMI (I AM)

John 8:24 ... for if ye believe not that EGO EIMI, ye shall die in your sins.

John 20:28 Literal translation

And Thomas answered and said, O Kurios mu kai O Theos mu

The LORD of me and the GOD of me

John 20:29
YESHUA saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen Me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.


Thomas calls YESHUA The LORD and The GOD of me and YESHUA replies blessed are those that have not seen and believe.

OP, It sucks to be you

Last Edited by Katriel on 04/09/2021 02:08 PM

Really? I think you've overlooked these...

Matthew 1:23 - Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

Luke 1:27 - To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.

AND the prophecy...

Isaiah 7:14 - Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

Last Edited by Servant-of-the-LORD on 12/06/2021 02:42 PM

"Literal Translation"?
By WHOM?

Here's the entore John 8:24 verse word by word
from the KJV.

[link to www.blueletterbible.org (secure)]

.....

How is it you folks mention John 20:28 but ignore what John states in verse 31..."Son of God".

The passage is about how Thomas refused to believe that the other Apostles had seen the "resurrected" Jesus.
And notice what John states in verse 31.

John 20

28 And Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!"

29 Jesus said to him, "Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."

30 And truly Jesus did many other signs in the presence of His disciples, which are not written in this book;

31 but these are written that you may believe

that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God,

and that believing you may have life in His name.

Thomas says Jesus is "my God". NOT "Jesus IS God".
Jesus NEVER says "I am God".
NONE of the Apostles say "Jesus is God".

Did Jesus LIE when He said....

John 3:16 (KJV) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

"only begotten SON of the Father"

On top of that...

Who TOLD Jesus what to say?

...the Father SENT me Said by Jesus 47 times
...I say what the Father has said. John 12:49-50

49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.

...The Father GAVE me the Revelation

Revelation 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

What did you post?
Was it "on topic"?
You'll have to sign in to answer.

You can spew your trinitarian explanations all you want but they don't change the facts of scripture.

John 5:18 is the Pharisees accusation.
WHERE in scripture does Jesus say He "IS equal" to the Father?

He doesn't. You also over look what the very next verse says...and John

John 5:19 - Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.


John 10:36 - Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

How about you show me in the Bible where it says that?

In the meantime...here's what we are supposed to believe about Jesus.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

John 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

Acts 8:37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

Romans 1:4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

1 Peter 1:21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.

1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

1 John 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

1 John 4:9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.

1 John 4:15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.

1 John 5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

1 John 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

1 John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

1 John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

Last Edited by Servant-of-the-LORD on 04/09/2021 11:20 PM

1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

I don't reject John 1.
It needs to be taken in context to ALL that is said about Jesus.

WHY does NOT ONE writer in the New Testament say...

"Jesus IS God"????

I already gave the reason above in a previous post.

A couple of "facts" about John's writings.

1. The phrase "Son of God" appears 46 times in the New Testamen. Out of those, the phrase occurs 18 times in the books that John wrote.

2. The 2 MOST definitive verses that record what Jesus says about the Father are BOTH in The Gospel of John.

John 17:3 And this is life eternal,
that they might know thee

the only true God,

and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

.....

John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not;
for I am not yet ascended to my Father:
but go to my brethren, and say unto them,
I ascend unto my Father, and your Father;

and to my God, and your God.

Thread: Father God is the "I AM' / God Almighty / Jehovah in Exodus. Not Jesus. Bible Study Scriptural Proof.

The Greek is known to have issues, which is why St. Jerome, in the 4th Century spent many years compiling the Latin Vulgate FROM ALL SOURCES, not just Greek ones.

Not sure why anyone would have a crack at re-doing this.

"The Greek is known to have issues"

What are you refering to?

Look at the entire passage of John 8. Jesus never said "I AM God".

54 Jesus answered, If I honour myself,
my honour is nothing: it is my Father
that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that
he is your God:

55 Yet ye have not known him; but I
know him: and if I should say, I know
him not, I shall be a liar like unto you:
but I know him, and keep his saying.

56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see
my day: and he saw it, and was glad.

57 Then said the J?ews unto him, Thou
art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou
seen Abraham?

58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I
say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

59 Then took they up stones to cast at
him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out
of the temple, going through the midst
of them, and so passed by.

...

The phrase “I am” in John 8:58 comes from two Greek words “ego” and “eimi.” The Strong’s Definitions are:

“ego" : “I” (only expressed when emphatic): – I, me.”

“eimi" I exist (used only when emphatic): – am, have been, X it is I, was.”

How would you expect Jesus to respond to this comment? “Then said the J?ews unto him, You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?” John 8:57

Not knowing Jesus existed before Abraham, the Pharisees are saying how could you have seen Abraham because you are not yet 50 years old. Since the Greek words for “I am” also mean I exist or existed, what is the obvious translation and response from Christ who existed before Abraham?

“Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.” John 8:58

Or

“Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I existed.” John 8:58

...

Breath of fresh air !

>>>1722 en<<<
Strong's Concordance
en: in, on, at, by, with
Original Word: &#7952;&#957;
Part of Speech: Preposition
Transliteration: en
Phonetic Spelling: (en)
Definition: in, on, at, by, with
Usage: in, on, among.