If, instead of getting the mRNA vax, you were injected with just the spike protein the vax would have made your body make, what would happen?

The spike protein will be produced by any infected cell. Thats the way this virus works.

Viral mRNA introduced via inoculation enters the cell through lipid merger of target cell and liposomal-delvivery-system membranes. Once inside, the cell's protein manufacturing infrastructure reads the novel mRNA and produces a resultant protein sequence. That sequence theoretically folds into a spike-protein-like structure and is subsequently recognized by localized "learned" immune responses. The intent being this learned system generates an appropriate antibody to this novel "spike-protein-antigen." Of course things can and do go wrong.

You're proposing to achieve the same intent through another methodology; to create or harvest synthetic or naturally occurring antigen such as a viral spike protein, that is then introduced to the inoculant's learned immune system in hopes of generating an appropriate antibody.

It would seem your way is preferable, but at the nano and micro scale of molecules and simple proteins a whole host of uncontrollable variables occur. Concerns of proper folding, and lipid solubilities of the protein itself, combined with things like membrane trafficking and membrane homogeneity, or budding and fusing of membranes. Lots and lots of complex shtuff going, all impacted by things like body temperature, local inflammatory responses, body pH. All of this against the genetic background and clinical history of the inoculant.... Ok. Stop. I want to get off. It just spirals out of control.

Bottomline, using the bodies own manufacturing tools within its own chemical environment results in a "better" spike-protein-antigen; one that is truer to the form and function of the living, unattenuated viral particle.

Hope that helps.

Likely nothing.

Seems that the vax companies would have injected some test subjects with just the spike protein to see what would happen BEFORE deciding to mRNA everyone to have that spike protein be self made for their entire lives.

Isn’t that what they did in Russia?


The Sputnik V vaccine is a two-dose adenoviral vector vaccine using two different adenoviruses for each dose, with doses administered 21 days apart. With this type of vaccine, an adenovirus is altered so that it can deliver a piece of genetic material from the virus that causes Covid-19 into the body and get cells to express the spike induce found on the virus and induce an immune response. It's an approach similar to the vaccines developed by AstraZeneca and Johnson & Johnson.
The authors say that using a different adenovirus vector for the booster vaccination may help create a more powerful immune response.
One advantage of adenoviral vaccines is that they do not need to be stored and transported in extremely cold temperatures, scientists say. Sputnik V only needs to be refrigerated and costs $10 per dose, according to Russian Direct Investment Fund, which funded vaccine production and is responsible for selling it globally.


The mRNA “vax” is not a vaccine at all...

Clinical trials are for suckerzzzzz!

"Isn’t that what they did in Russia?"

Sounds like it based on your description.


"The Sputnik V vaccine is a two-dose adenoviral vector vaccine using two different adenoviruses for each dose, with doses administered 21 days apart. With this type of vaccine, an adenovirus is altered so that it can deliver a piece of genetic material from the virus that causes Covid-19 into the body and get cells to express the spike induce found on the virus and induce an immune response."

Sounds like they are using two separate genetically modified Adenoviral strains, ones that produce and manifest a Covid-design spike protein? If this is the case, then during the natural infection and immunological defense response cycles of these adenoviruses, novel-spike protein mRNA is introduced whereby a novel-spike-protein is made successfully. All within the micro/ macro environmental background of the patient. Therefore you would likely produce a "better" spike-protein-antibody compared to inoculation with a synthetic or purified form of exogenous spike-proteins.



The mRNA “vax” is not a vaccine at all..."

Correct. By definition, these inoculations are not "vaccines."

mRNA is very unstable. It doesn't last long at all. Almost everything degrades it: uv radiation (sunlight), RNAses (protein enzymes ubiquitous in the environment that universally break down RNA molecules), heat, acid, soaps... you just look at the stuff and it degrades.

Sooooo, theoretically the amount of mRNA received is limited to the amount of mRNA delivered.

Aaannd, RNA degrades rapidly so the amount delivered will not remain biologically relevant for very long.

BUuutt, thats not bio-physically correct. Beeecause, in their infinite wisdom, big pharma does things intended to protect against environmental degradation of their packaged mRNA. I imagine the technology deployed here remains patent secret.

Don't buy the hype about mRNA somehow back-integrating into a inoculant recipient's genome in any real or biologically-relevant way. Statistically, being clinically impacted by the insertion of ANY non-retro-viral RNA into the human genome would be akin to winning multiple power-balls in a single lifetime.

However, pigenetic alterations in localized characteristics of the human genome does occur throughout life. And these changes can be passed on. In other words, environmental exposure to things like VIRUSES will impact the infected individual's genomic information in heritable ways. Such mechanisms include chemical modification of underlying genomic code; things like methylation, and histone modification.

Epigenetic-driven change in genomic DNA function is a vast, relatively unexplored field and ripe for investigation. But it is not the same thing as introducing viral mRNA into genomic DNA sequence.

If just injecting pure spike protein, how long would they remain in the body? How long would the antibodies made as a result last? How long would T cells and other immune boosted functions last? From one injection of just the specific spike protein. What about liposomal spike protein ingestion/ inhalation?

you need and the rest of you on glp.. to stop called mRNA a vaccine.. it is NOT. learn the difference.. google is your friend.

That you Paul Cotrell?

Probably nothing.

Because that spike protein will have been artificially made in some other model organism, then harvested and purified. All of those processes can fundamentally alter antigen epitopes leading to ineffective antibody selection and poor learned immune response to subsequent, real world, spike-protein-carrying viral infections.

Spike protein injected into the body would be subject to the bodies innate catabolic processes. These include macrophage consumption and enzymatic dissociation of amino acids, presentation of representative proteins to both innate and learned immunological responses, etc.

Given reasonable assumptions about healthy immune systems, etc.. the process of antibody-antigen recognition to the establishment of full learned-immunity antibody regulated, stem-cell induced response is roughly two weeks.

The half life of the body's antibody response depends upon several factors including latent antigen. For example, imagine a fat-soluble antigen slow-released over time as patient weight fluctuates. This would produce a long-term, low-grade mechanism of immune system stimulation. Its reasonable to assume that free antibodies would dissipate to something approaching zero in the bloodstream within 18 months. But overall immunological record of this antigen-epitope recognition endures a lifetime, theoretically.

Liposomally delivered mRNA is what these inoculations are. So yes, something like a spike-protein may also be delivered in the same manner. Here again though, because this is a synthetically produced, purified, and processed spike-protein coupled with an artificial liposomal delivery system, it remains less likely to effect adequate or appropriate immune response to live, unattenuated viral loads.

I appreciate this dialog. Thanks. So I believe that you are saying that only in vivo creation of the spike protein would produce a robust immune response. (Unless a perfect natural spike protein could be collected/made and injected or liposomed into the body) How about if a person intentionally got infected with covid and in a few days took ivermectin to end the infection's course? Then natural spike protein and the body's response would have occurred and immunity would occur most of the time. Perhaps life long immunity. Better than a life long mRNA genetic additive put into a person's body that will continuously make a spike protein that the body then attacks with it's immune system?

what about this scenario >

"That sequence misfolds into a protein-like structure called a prion"

"That sequence misfolds into a protein-like structure called a prion"

Prions are rare. They depend upon specific quaternary structure potentials only realized under precise environmental conditions like temperature and pH. Most proteins will never fold into a plague-promoting crystalline structure of molecules.

It is not likely that an isolated spike protein will react any differently than any other isolated protein. That is to say it most likely would never exhibit prionic characteristics.

Nobody getting these synthetic gene therapies is being immunised against sars cov 2 virus. Our cells are hijacked and forced to create an unnatural spike protein that places itself on the outside of our own cells. That then provokes an immune response in theory and we develop immunity against the spike proteins....and/or against the spiked human cell...oh and against the adenoviruses used in the dna gene therapies of Astrazeneca/Sputnik/JJ


“Bottomline, using the bodies own manufacturing tools within its own chemical environment results in a "better" spike-protein-antigen; one that is truer to the form and function of the living, unattenuated viral particle. “

- the arrogance of man.

Does this mean people could be fed the mRNA or even breathed it in?

This thread needs a meme break...

Leucocytosis.

Liposomally delivered mRNA is what these inoculations are. So yes, something like a spike-protein may also be delivered in the same manner.

Does this mean people could be fed the mRNA or even breathed it in?


Theoretically, yes. Transdermal is pretty easy if you get the liposome size and structure correct. Sublinqual absorption in a liquid buffer delivery solution might work but in order to do this, the mRNA molecule would need to be protected from degradation if not in a protective liposomal shell.

We are covered in these molecules all day, everyday. Our own DNA, the DNA of everything living around us. mRNA even. But RNA degrades so rapidly as to make its use outside its nascent cell next to nil. Some secondary signaling over short range distances... several cells maybe. None of this DNA/RNA/mRNA ever gets inserted back into our genomes. That process requires viral enzymes.