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Need help identifying an old photo (carte de visite and a dag or ambrotype)

 
GeorgeSumner'sAcorn
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02/03/2021 05:49 PM

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Need help identifying an old photo (carte de visite and a dag or ambrotype)
Please let this stand for awhile so I can get some replies!!

I know this isn't a usual GLP thing; but alongside the trolls there are also many smart people here who may be willing
to help me solve this puzzle. This is for some research I am doing for a book.

I have two old photos here. One is from 1860 or 1861 and shows a man named George Sumner of Boston (the acorn guy), around the age of 44. He is the brother of Senator Charles Sumner who was beaten in the US Senate in 1856. He was said to have had a lot of curly hair when young but had lost some of it and gained weight before he died of something like Lou Gehrig's disease in 1863.


The older photo of the young man is one I found recently while going through some Boston Southworth and Hawes stuff.

I think it may also be a photo of George around 1849 to 1852 when he had all that curly hair that he was said to have had. Check out the exact same bald/ white spot on the beard near the chin.

If someone wants to look at these two photos (click on it) and tell me if they think it could be the same guy 10 or 15 years apart I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks!

https://imgur.com/a/LXm2zY3


Last Edited by GeorgeSumner'sAcorn on 02/03/2021 05:51 PM
In 1839 20-year-old George Sumner sailed from the US to Russia, as supercargo on freighter.He carried with him an acorn,taken from the grave of Washington.He talked his way into the presence of Czar Nicholas I and presented the Acorn as a gift from America. The Czar was charmed. The story....
Anonymous Coward
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02/03/2021 06:11 PM
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Re: Need help identifying an old photo (carte de visite and a dag or ambrotype)
The angle of the bottom of the nose appears steeper in the younger photo but his nose may have sagged a bit in the older photo. Very close. Could be same.
GeorgeSumner'sAcorn  (OP)

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02/03/2021 06:19 PM

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Re: Need help identifying an old photo (carte de visite and a dag or ambrotype)
The angle of the bottom of the nose appears steeper in the younger photo but his nose may have sagged a bit in the older photo. Very close. Could be same.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32154835


Thanks. The angle and the hair makes it tough. Can't see earlobes or compare foreheads. Too much hair in the first photo.
In 1839 20-year-old George Sumner sailed from the US to Russia, as supercargo on freighter.He carried with him an acorn,taken from the grave of Washington.He talked his way into the presence of Czar Nicholas I and presented the Acorn as a gift from America. The Czar was charmed. The story....
GeorgeSumner'sAcorn  (OP)

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02/03/2021 07:28 PM

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Re: Need help identifying an old photo (carte de visite and a dag or ambrotype)
come on guys!!
In 1839 20-year-old George Sumner sailed from the US to Russia, as supercargo on freighter.He carried with him an acorn,taken from the grave of Washington.He talked his way into the presence of Czar Nicholas I and presented the Acorn as a gift from America. The Czar was charmed. The story....
Anonymous Coward
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02/03/2021 07:37 PM
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Re: Need help identifying an old photo (carte de visite and a dag or ambrotype)
Could very well be, the eyes and general facial structure are quite similar.
Anonymous Coward
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02/03/2021 07:41 PM
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Re: Need help identifying an old photo (carte de visite and a dag or ambrotype)
Google reverse image search shows the first photo as Charles Sumner, Sen from Mass and the 2nd as George Sumner
GeorgeSumner'sAcorn  (OP)

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02/03/2021 08:42 PM

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Re: Need help identifying an old photo (carte de visite and a dag or ambrotype)
Google reverse image search shows the first photo as Charles Sumner, Sen from Mass and the 2nd as George Sumner
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72557053


It is Charles Sumner's brother in the photo showing the older, chunkier man, confirmed.

But how did you do that?

Last Edited by GeorgeSumner'sAcorn on 02/03/2021 08:44 PM
In 1839 20-year-old George Sumner sailed from the US to Russia, as supercargo on freighter.He carried with him an acorn,taken from the grave of Washington.He talked his way into the presence of Czar Nicholas I and presented the Acorn as a gift from America. The Czar was charmed. The story....
Indrid_Cold

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02/03/2021 08:46 PM
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Re: Need help identifying an old photo (carte de visite and a dag or ambrotype)
.

Last Edited by Indrid_Cold on 02/03/2021 08:46 PM
GeorgeSumner'sAcorn  (OP)

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02/03/2021 10:46 PM

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Re: Need help identifying an old photo (carte de visite and a dag or ambrotype)
bump
In 1839 20-year-old George Sumner sailed from the US to Russia, as supercargo on freighter.He carried with him an acorn,taken from the grave of Washington.He talked his way into the presence of Czar Nicholas I and presented the Acorn as a gift from America. The Czar was charmed. The story....
GeorgeSumner'sAcorn  (OP)

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02/04/2021 06:35 PM

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Re: Need help identifying an old photo (carte de visite and a dag or ambrotype)
anyone else want to chime in?
In 1839 20-year-old George Sumner sailed from the US to Russia, as supercargo on freighter.He carried with him an acorn,taken from the grave of Washington.He talked his way into the presence of Czar Nicholas I and presented the Acorn as a gift from America. The Czar was charmed. The story....
Anonymous Coward
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02/04/2021 06:39 PM
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Re: Need help identifying an old photo (carte de visite and a dag or ambrotype)
You ever think about what a coincidence it was that Lou Gehrig died of Lou Gehrig's disease?
Reaching

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02/04/2021 06:40 PM
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Re: Need help identifying an old photo (carte de visite and a dag or ambrotype)
Could very well be, the eyes and general facial structure are quite similar.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 78225923


tru-dat
Stoidi
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02/04/2021 07:06 PM
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Re: Need help identifying an old photo (carte de visite and a dag or ambrotype)
They are the same. The older photo looks like he may have broken his nose. There are markings on the forehead also that are comparable as well as the cheek. The bald/discoloration in the beard is the same and also the mustache. He was quite handsome. I love old photos.
GeorgeSumner'sAcorn  (OP)

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02/04/2021 07:37 PM

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Re: Need help identifying an old photo (carte de visite and a dag or ambrotype)
They are the same. The older photo looks like he may have broken his nose. There are markings on the forehead also that are comparable as well as the cheek. The bald/discoloration in the beard is the same and also the mustache. He was quite handsome. I love old photos.
 Quoting: Stoidi 77046882


He was accidently hit by a military vehicle in 1861 while helping to aid Massachussetts troops during the civil war.

He survived, but had some problems with his knee for awhile, but he was basically functioning after that accident for awhile.

Then after 6 months or so, that injured leg got paralyzed, then his other leg, then both arms. He became an invalid and He died in 1863 age 46.

It sounds like after his accident he developed some kind of motor-neuron disease.

But he might have broken his nose during that accident too.

Yes, he and his brother were both handsome,and dedicated truther, liberty-loving patriots too. There was a battle against the deep state at that time as well.
In 1839 20-year-old George Sumner sailed from the US to Russia, as supercargo on freighter.He carried with him an acorn,taken from the grave of Washington.He talked his way into the presence of Czar Nicholas I and presented the Acorn as a gift from America. The Czar was charmed. The story....
Half Past Midnight

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02/04/2021 07:46 PM
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Re: Need help identifying an old photo (carte de visite and a dag or ambrotype)
Interesting thread.

I love old photos and history.
GeorgeSumner'sAcorn  (OP)

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02/04/2021 11:34 PM

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Re: Need help identifying an old photo (carte de visite and a dag or ambrotype)
Interesting thread.

I love old photos and history.
 Quoting: Half Past Midnight


Me too.
In 1839 20-year-old George Sumner sailed from the US to Russia, as supercargo on freighter.He carried with him an acorn,taken from the grave of Washington.He talked his way into the presence of Czar Nicholas I and presented the Acorn as a gift from America. The Czar was charmed. The story....
Anonymous Coward
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02/04/2021 11:42 PM
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Re: Need help identifying an old photo (carte de visite and a dag or ambrotype)
I'm pretty good at facial recognition and I don't think it's the same man, sorry.

None of the features are quite the same.


We males are more visual than you.
Anonymous Coward
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02/04/2021 11:50 PM
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Re: Need help identifying an old photo (carte de visite and a dag or ambrotype)
It’s a close match. The placement of features looks spot on. And the left side of the nose is broken and lower than the right in both photos, from a fight or accident in early life. If you can find a third photo somewhere you could do an even better comparison.
Anonymous Coward
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02/05/2021 12:02 AM
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Re: Need help identifying an old photo (carte de visite and a dag or ambrotype)
I was really pissed off hearing the story about him getting pummeled like that on the floor of Congress. Did he suffer permanent brain damage?

(I don't think it's the same man.)
Anonymous Coward
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02/05/2021 12:15 AM
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Re: Need help identifying an old photo (carte de visite and a dag or ambrotype)
they are similar but you csnnot tell by the pictures if thry are the same person...too little details to compare.

uou either find more pictures who can fill the gaps between or look gor references about the picture.

if the two pictures are the only data given you cannot say they are the same person.
GeorgeSumner'sAcorn  (OP)

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02/05/2021 01:14 AM

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Re: Need help identifying an old photo (carte de visite and a dag or ambrotype)
I was really pissed off hearing the story about him getting pummeled like that on the floor of Congress. Did he suffer permanent brain damage?

(I don't think it's the same man.)
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 79961361


That was his old brother Charles Sumner. This guy

https://imgur.com/a/h5m8wL7

In 1839 20-year-old George Sumner sailed from the US to Russia, as supercargo on freighter.He carried with him an acorn,taken from the grave of Washington.He talked his way into the presence of Czar Nicholas I and presented the Acorn as a gift from America. The Czar was charmed. The story....
GeorgeSumner'sAcorn  (OP)

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02/05/2021 01:20 AM

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Re: Need help identifying an old photo (carte de visite and a dag or ambrotype)
I was really pissed off hearing the story about him getting pummeled like that on the floor of Congress. Did he suffer permanent brain damage?

(I don't think it's the same man.)
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 79961361


That was his old brother Senator Charles Sumner. He suffered neurological issues the rest of his life. This guy

https://imgur.com/a/h5m8wL7

 Quoting: GeorgeSumner'sAcorn

In 1839 20-year-old George Sumner sailed from the US to Russia, as supercargo on freighter.He carried with him an acorn,taken from the grave of Washington.He talked his way into the presence of Czar Nicholas I and presented the Acorn as a gift from America. The Czar was charmed. The story....
Vision Thing

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02/05/2021 01:29 AM

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Re: Need help identifying an old photo (carte de visite and a dag or ambrotype)
Thanks for bringing cool old history to GLP rose
GeorgeSumner'sAcorn  (OP)

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02/05/2021 03:15 PM

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Re: Need help identifying an old photo (carte de visite and a dag or ambrotype)
Thanks for bringing cool old history to GLP rose
 Quoting: Vision Thing


I love history!!!
In 1839 20-year-old George Sumner sailed from the US to Russia, as supercargo on freighter.He carried with him an acorn,taken from the grave of Washington.He talked his way into the presence of Czar Nicholas I and presented the Acorn as a gift from America. The Czar was charmed. The story....
Anonymous Coward
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02/05/2021 03:25 PM
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Re: Need help identifying an old photo (carte de visite and a dag or ambrotype)
Google reverse image search shows the first photo as Charles Sumner, Sen from Mass and the 2nd as George Sumner
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72557053


It is Charles Sumner's brother in the photo showing the older, chunkier man, confirmed.

But how did you do that?
 Quoting: GeorgeSumner'sAcorn


go to google and click on image search. you'll see a place to upload photos. Upload your photos separately. Google will return the matches to your photos that it finds.
GeorgeSumner'sAcorn  (OP)

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02/06/2021 04:17 PM

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Re: Need help identifying an old photo (carte de visite and a dag or ambrotype)
Google reverse image search shows the first photo as Charles Sumner, Sen from Mass and the 2nd as George Sumner
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72557053


It is Charles Sumner's brother in the photo showing the older, chunkier man, confirmed.

But how did you do that?
 Quoting: GeorgeSumner'sAcorn


go to google and click on image search. you'll see a place to upload photos. Upload your photos separately. Google will return the matches to your photos that it finds.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72951731


Thanks!! I think these are the only photos in existence of this guy. But I will keep trying.
In 1839 20-year-old George Sumner sailed from the US to Russia, as supercargo on freighter.He carried with him an acorn,taken from the grave of Washington.He talked his way into the presence of Czar Nicholas I and presented the Acorn as a gift from America. The Czar was charmed. The story....
BBQ BOY™

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02/06/2021 04:27 PM
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Re: Need help identifying an old photo (carte de visite and a dag or ambrotype)
The first image looks more like a Lithograph print than a photograph.

By 1865 they were taking some great detailed photographs. President Lincoln is an example of that
"Never underestimate the pain of a person. In all honesty, everyone is struggling. Just some people are better at hiding it than others."

Everyone has to work out their own salvation.

Life can only be understood backwards, but it must be lived forwards.
GeorgeSumner'sAcorn  (OP)

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02/08/2021 09:32 PM

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Re: Need help identifying an old photo (carte de visite and a dag or ambrotype)
The first image looks more like a Lithograph print than a photograph.

By 1865 they were taking some great detailed photographs. President Lincoln is an example of that
 Quoting: BBQ BOY™


Yes. I like looking at Southworth and Dawes stuff from Boston. Amazing.
In 1839 20-year-old George Sumner sailed from the US to Russia, as supercargo on freighter.He carried with him an acorn,taken from the grave of Washington.He talked his way into the presence of Czar Nicholas I and presented the Acorn as a gift from America. The Czar was charmed. The story....
UrMomsD1ld0

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02/08/2021 10:31 PM

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Re: Need help identifying an old photo (carte de visite and a dag or ambrotype)
it seems the top obe is older then the tin type, i think by the eye bags the lines around the nose it could actually be his father or vica versa his son
GeorgeSumner'sAcorn  (OP)

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02/09/2021 12:28 AM

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Re: Need help identifying an old photo (carte de visite and a dag or ambrotype)
it seems the top obe is older then the tin type, i think by the eye bags the lines around the nose it could actually be his father or vica versa his son
 Quoting: UrMomsD1ld0


The dad died in 1837, before photography. Otherwise, I definitely agree with you.
In 1839 20-year-old George Sumner sailed from the US to Russia, as supercargo on freighter.He carried with him an acorn,taken from the grave of Washington.He talked his way into the presence of Czar Nicholas I and presented the Acorn as a gift from America. The Czar was charmed. The story....





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