Perhaps where we are heading is some form of “Freedom-Socialist” state | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 74966280 Canada 01/25/2021 08:06 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
TurtleManEa
(OP) User ID: 79462397 United States 01/25/2021 08:08 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Because you are a paying member I will grace your post with a reply. Quoting: Gentle Lotus No. That. Will. Not. Work. Freedom can't be stifled. Period. Thank you for your grace. The idea is the most important point. If it can be thought, it can be done. Blessed are the Peacemakers. “The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds.“ 2 Corinthians 10:4 “No matter how many arrows are shot into the sky, Angels still fly.” |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 77376498 United States 01/25/2021 08:08 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Our future may be some form of “dual-state.” Quoting: TurtleManEa Can the two exist within the same system? Usually we have two sides who try to exert both sides to live under their singular rule. Either the socialists attempt to make everyone a socialist, or the freedom-lovers try to make everyone live under a “free” state and to force people to build themselves up or “pull themselves up by their bootstraps.” What if we could have both? What if we had a system that would take care of people that needed help, but also was completely free to not take part in that system? To me the United States is heading in this direction. We do not need to part ways to have this system come to fruition. We do not need to have a civil war, nor do we need to build two separate countries, one of which was socialist and one of which was free. We already have examples of this in recent history. One being Germany breaking into West and East and another being Korea, breaking into North and South. Germany eventually re-united and Korea is bound to eventually re-unite one day as well. I would encourage a “Freedom-Socialist” party to come into fruition as that seems to me to be the balance that we are looking for. Some who are more “freedom-loving” may come into tough times and need support, thus they may become more “socialist” and some who are more socialist, might be doing well and not need the support and become more “freedom-loving.” It can be very fluid. NEITHER EAST AND WEST GRMANY ;NOR NORTH AND SOUTH KOREA were separated by choiceof thecitizens or a vote of the people! They were seized and walled off by FUCKING COMMUNISTS WITH GUNS AND TANKS! DON'T YOU FUCKS READ HISTORY???? Only a 50 year coldwar caused the re unification. |
TurtleManEa
(OP) User ID: 79462397 United States 01/25/2021 08:11 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I never said they were separated by a choice of the citizens. I’m merely saying what we are capable of. Blessed are the Peacemakers. “The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds.“ 2 Corinthians 10:4 “No matter how many arrows are shot into the sky, Angels still fly.” |
IfYouInsist
User ID: 79271734 United States 01/25/2021 08:14 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I never said they were separated by a choice of the citizens. I’m merely saying what we are capable of. Quoting: TurtleManEa I've seen various civil rights, not to mention international laws, violated on this very site. I don't know where you're getting your fantasies, but no, freedom doesn't survive that. |
TurtleManEa
(OP) User ID: 79462397 United States 01/25/2021 08:15 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I never said they were separated by a choice of the citizens. I’m merely saying what we are capable of. Quoting: TurtleManEa I've seen various civil rights, not to mention international laws, violated on this very site. I don't know where you're getting your fantasies, but no, freedom doesn't survive that. If one injects “metaphysics” into the system, it would work brilliantly. Today’s “fringe” becomes tomorrow’s orthodoxy. Last Edited by TurtleManEa on 01/25/2021 08:17 AM Blessed are the Peacemakers. “The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds.“ 2 Corinthians 10:4 “No matter how many arrows are shot into the sky, Angels still fly.” |
IfYouInsist
User ID: 79271734 United States 01/25/2021 08:18 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I never said they were separated by a choice of the citizens. I’m merely saying what we are capable of. Quoting: TurtleManEa I've seen various civil rights, not to mention international laws, violated on this very site. I don't know where you're getting your fantasies, but no, freedom doesn't survive that. If one injects “metaphysics” into the system, it would work brilliantly. Today’s “fringe” becomes tomorrow’s orthodoxy. On paper and in courts, provided they were stacked. Was the old metaphysics inferior to the task? I'm not interested in lying to people for the sake of people who lied to me. Sorry. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 79291443 United States 01/25/2021 08:20 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 3425388 United States 01/25/2021 08:21 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
TurtleManEa
(OP) User ID: 79462397 United States 01/25/2021 08:22 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Blessed are the Peacemakers. “The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds.“ 2 Corinthians 10:4 “No matter how many arrows are shot into the sky, Angels still fly.” |
IfYouInsist
User ID: 79271734 United States 01/25/2021 08:24 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | A “Freedom-Socialist” party would be the very center of politics. It would be “objectively” the answer to what we are looking for. An umbrella that all people could find what they are looking for. There is nothing wrong with having far-left or far-right parties, but we must have a new “center” that incorporates the “best” of all parties. Quoting: TurtleManEa The world is falling apart because most ideas have gotten threadbare, coupled with the fact that everyone rightly suspects they are rigged. Reconfiguring the system to bribe everyone isn't the solution and adding theology to the mix makes the whole scam stink to high heaven. Civilizations, peoples, and even entire species have an expiration date. Learn to accept it. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 77376498 United States 01/25/2021 08:29 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I never said they were separated by a choice of the citizens. Yes: we are capable of walling in our citizens, ruling over them and dictating their entire lives with an iron fist. Yes: Evil exists in the hearts of man...even here I giess I don't quite understand your point. Perhaps the "iron curtain" was not an appropriate metaphor for your mixed communist lite theory??? People shot their way out of the eastern bloc(the "workers paradise").Are you advocating for that here? Because we will oblige you. |
IfYouInsist
User ID: 79271734 United States 01/25/2021 08:30 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I never said they were separated by a choice of the citizens. Quoting: TurtleManEa Yes: we are capable of walling in our citizens, ruling over them and dictating their entire lives with an iron fist. Yes: Evil exists in the hearts of man...even here I giess I don't quite understand your point. Perhaps the "iron curtain" was not an appropriate metaphor for your mixed communist lite theory??? People shot their way out of the eastern bloc(the "workers paradise").Are you advocating for that here? Because we will oblige you. He's proposing a new kind of terror and a new legalese to justify it (metaphysics). Better to take the easy way out, I think. |
TurtleManEa
(OP) User ID: 79462397 United States 01/25/2021 08:32 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | A “Freedom-Socialist” party would be the very center of politics. It would be “objectively” the answer to what we are looking for. An umbrella that all people could find what they are looking for. There is nothing wrong with having far-left or far-right parties, but we must have a new “center” that incorporates the “best” of all parties. Quoting: TurtleManEa The world is falling apart because most ideas have gotten threadbare, coupled with the fact that everyone rightly suspects they are rigged. Reconfiguring the system to bribe everyone isn't the solution and adding theology to the mix makes the whole scam stink to high heaven. Civilizations, peoples, and even entire species have an expiration date. Learn to accept it. Metaphysics IS NOT theology. It is the underlying rules and principles of the “game of life.” Any system works if it is built upon metaphysics. To me the best of all worlds is probably some form of socialism-freedom-metaphysics that eventually leads to a fully “Metaphysical-Anarchist” state. This is what my intention is to provide. A stepping stone to a “Metaphysical-Anarchist” state which is more or less what the primordial-traditional state was. Blessed are the Peacemakers. “The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds.“ 2 Corinthians 10:4 “No matter how many arrows are shot into the sky, Angels still fly.” |
IfYouInsist
User ID: 79271734 United States 01/25/2021 08:34 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | A “Freedom-Socialist” party would be the very center of politics. It would be “objectively” the answer to what we are looking for. An umbrella that all people could find what they are looking for. There is nothing wrong with having far-left or far-right parties, but we must have a new “center” that incorporates the “best” of all parties. Quoting: TurtleManEa The world is falling apart because most ideas have gotten threadbare, coupled with the fact that everyone rightly suspects they are rigged. Reconfiguring the system to bribe everyone isn't the solution and adding theology to the mix makes the whole scam stink to high heaven. Civilizations, peoples, and even entire species have an expiration date. Learn to accept it. Metaphysics IS NOT theology. It is the underlying rules and principles of the “game of life.” Any system works if it is built upon metaphysics. To me the best of all worlds is probably some form of socialism-freedom-metaphysics that eventually leads to a fully “Metaphysical-Anarchist” state. This is what my intention is to provide. A stepping stone to a “Metaphysical-Anarchist” state which is more or less what the primordial-traditional state was. All I've seen are violations of civil liberties from people hardened by indoctrination against them. It's becoming clear that the easy way out is also the desirable way out. Please stop with your fascist sweet-talking. |
TurtleManEa
(OP) User ID: 79462397 United States 01/25/2021 08:39 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | A “Freedom-Socialist” party would be the very center of politics. It would be “objectively” the answer to what we are looking for. An umbrella that all people could find what they are looking for. There is nothing wrong with having far-left or far-right parties, but we must have a new “center” that incorporates the “best” of all parties. Quoting: TurtleManEa The world is falling apart because most ideas have gotten threadbare, coupled with the fact that everyone rightly suspects they are rigged. Reconfiguring the system to bribe everyone isn't the solution and adding theology to the mix makes the whole scam stink to high heaven. Civilizations, peoples, and even entire species have an expiration date. Learn to accept it. Metaphysics IS NOT theology. It is the underlying rules and principles of the “game of life.” Any system works if it is built upon metaphysics. To me the best of all worlds is probably some form of socialism-freedom-metaphysics that eventually leads to a fully “Metaphysical-Anarchist” state. This is what my intention is to provide. A stepping stone to a “Metaphysical-Anarchist” state which is more or less what the primordial-traditional state was. All I've seen are violations of civil liberties from people hardened by indoctrination against them. It's becoming clear that the easy way out is also the desirable way out. Please stop with your fascist sweet-talking. Fascism is the very opposite of freedom in many ways. I am advocating a system that all people could take part in, regardless of their ideology. We are already there, but it has not been put in a conceptual framework from which to achieve. Some groups, especially those who wish the downfall of the US, attempt to divide us and to start a civil war by saying that one can either be “freedom-loving” or socialist, but not both. Well what if we can be both? I advocate for this path. Blessed are the Peacemakers. “The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds.“ 2 Corinthians 10:4 “No matter how many arrows are shot into the sky, Angels still fly.” |
IfYouInsist
User ID: 79271734 United States 01/25/2021 08:42 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | ... Quoting: IfYouInsist The world is falling apart because most ideas have gotten threadbare, coupled with the fact that everyone rightly suspects they are rigged. Reconfiguring the system to bribe everyone isn't the solution and adding theology to the mix makes the whole scam stink to high heaven. Civilizations, peoples, and even entire species have an expiration date. Learn to accept it. Metaphysics IS NOT theology. It is the underlying rules and principles of the “game of life.” Any system works if it is built upon metaphysics. To me the best of all worlds is probably some form of socialism-freedom-metaphysics that eventually leads to a fully “Metaphysical-Anarchist” state. This is what my intention is to provide. A stepping stone to a “Metaphysical-Anarchist” state which is more or less what the primordial-traditional state was. All I've seen are violations of civil liberties from people hardened by indoctrination against them. It's becoming clear that the easy way out is also the desirable way out. Please stop with your fascist sweet-talking. Fascism is the very opposite of freedom in many ways. I am advocating a system that all people could take part in, regardless of their ideology. We are already there, but it has not been put in a conceptual framework from which to achieve. Some groups, especially those who wish the downfall of the US, attempt to divide us and to start a civil war by saying that one can either be “freedom-loving” or socialist, but not both. Well what if we can be both? I advocate for this path. The fatal miscalculation is that your idealism justified your overreach and cruelty. I stopped doing most things about two months ago...or didn't you notice? Whether I sleep all day getting a government check or work all day and sleep all day on weekends, I've given up under the strain because you didn't listen since you 'knew best.' I've stopped listening and stopped trying because I've stopped caring. Your confidence as a doctor comes almost exclusively from ignoring the patients you end up killing. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 77376498 United States 01/25/2021 08:45 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | ... Quoting: IfYouInsist The world is falling apart because most ideas have gotten threadbare, coupled with the fact that everyone rightly suspects they are rigged. Reconfiguring the system to bribe everyone isn't the solution and adding theology to the mix makes the whole scam stink to high heaven. Civilizations, peoples, and even entire species have an expiration date. Learn to accept it. Metaphysics IS NOT theology. It is the underlying rules and principles of the “game of life.” Any system works if it is built upon metaphysics. To me the best of all worlds is probably some form of socialism-freedom-metaphysics that eventually leads to a fully “Metaphysical-Anarchist” state. This is what my intention is to provide. A stepping stone to a “Metaphysical-Anarchist” state which is more or less what the primordial-traditional state was. All I've seen are violations of civil liberties from people hardened by indoctrination against them. It's becoming clear that the easy way out is also the desirable way out. Please stop with your fascist sweet-talking. Fascism is the very opposite of freedom in many ways. I am advocating a system that all people could take part in, regardless of their ideology. We are already there, but it has not been put in a conceptual framework from which to achieve. Some groups, especially those who wish the downfall of the US, attempt to divide us and to start a civil war by saying that one can either be “freedom-loving” or socialist, but not both. Well what if we can be both? I advocate for this path. Flights are leaving hourly...plenty of socialist countries out there to choose rom; just bring lots of money(most require a substantial means of support for immigration). Gonna' have to look up what you mean by "metaphysics" not sure it means what you think it means. |
TurtleManEa
(OP) User ID: 79462397 United States 01/25/2021 08:45 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | How can I notice what you choose to do with your life? You are showing that the system can work, by being lazy or active when you choose. This is sort of the basis of a “Freedom-Socialist” party. Some people are inherently lazy, but at other times they have tons of energy and want to work. We must allow both to exist in the same system. We can figure how to make it work so why not? I salute the lazy ones, for many times I also like to be lazy. Other times I work 20 hour days non-stop. Who cares? Blessed are the Peacemakers. “The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds.“ 2 Corinthians 10:4 “No matter how many arrows are shot into the sky, Angels still fly.” |
TurtleManEa
(OP) User ID: 79462397 United States 01/25/2021 08:46 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | ... Quoting: TurtleManEa Metaphysics IS NOT theology. It is the underlying rules and principles of the “game of life.” Any system works if it is built upon metaphysics. To me the best of all worlds is probably some form of socialism-freedom-metaphysics that eventually leads to a fully “Metaphysical-Anarchist” state. This is what my intention is to provide. A stepping stone to a “Metaphysical-Anarchist” state which is more or less what the primordial-traditional state was. All I've seen are violations of civil liberties from people hardened by indoctrination against them. It's becoming clear that the easy way out is also the desirable way out. Please stop with your fascist sweet-talking. Fascism is the very opposite of freedom in many ways. I am advocating a system that all people could take part in, regardless of their ideology. We are already there, but it has not been put in a conceptual framework from which to achieve. Some groups, especially those who wish the downfall of the US, attempt to divide us and to start a civil war by saying that one can either be “freedom-loving” or socialist, but not both. Well what if we can be both? I advocate for this path. Flights are leaving hourly...plenty of socialist countries out there to choose rom; just bring lots of money(most require a substantial means of support for immigration). Gonna' have to look up what you mean by "metaphysics" not sure it means what you think it means. Most “metaphysics” have been lost purposefully. I plan on making a pod cast soon to explain what metaphysics actually are. I will post it here when the first one comes out. Cheers. Blessed are the Peacemakers. “The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds.“ 2 Corinthians 10:4 “No matter how many arrows are shot into the sky, Angels still fly.” |
IfYouInsist
User ID: 79271734 United States 01/25/2021 08:48 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | How can I notice what you choose to do with your life? You are showing that the system can work, by being lazy or active when you choose. This is sort of the basis of a “Freedom-Socialist” party. Some people are inherently lazy, but at other times they have tons of energy and want to work. We must allow both to exist in the same system. We can figure how to make it work so why not? Quoting: TurtleManEa I salute the lazy ones, for many times I also like to be lazy. Other times I work 20 hour days non-stop. Who cares? It wasn't laziness, but you already knew that. You keep talking about a 'we' where you come up with all the ideas and do all the enforcement, and I agree to them. Not interested in the positivity you exude when faced with the prospect of your total control. Sorry. |
TurtleManEa
(OP) User ID: 79462397 United States 01/25/2021 08:50 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | How can I notice what you choose to do with your life? You are showing that the system can work, by being lazy or active when you choose. This is sort of the basis of a “Freedom-Socialist” party. Some people are inherently lazy, but at other times they have tons of energy and want to work. We must allow both to exist in the same system. We can figure how to make it work so why not? Quoting: TurtleManEa I salute the lazy ones, for many times I also like to be lazy. Other times I work 20 hour days non-stop. Who cares? It wasn't laziness, but you already knew that. You keep talking about a 'we' where you come up with all the ideas and do all the enforcement, and I agree to them. Not interested in the positivity you exude when faced with the prospect of your total control. Sorry. You are free to do as you see fit. I’m not forcing anything on anyone. Our greatest problem in this country is that everyone hates the system, but they don’t have any actual ideas to head for. If we cannot come up with potential new ideas, people will just go in circles forever hating the system. Live long and prosper how you choose is best. I’m advocating a system that all people can do just that. Blessed are the Peacemakers. “The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds.“ 2 Corinthians 10:4 “No matter how many arrows are shot into the sky, Angels still fly.” |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 3425388 United States 01/25/2021 08:52 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | How can I notice what you choose to do with your life? You are showing that the system can work, by being lazy or active when you choose. This is sort of the basis of a “Freedom-Socialist” party. Some people are inherently lazy, but at other times they have tons of energy and want to work. We must allow both to exist in the same system. We can figure how to make it work so why not? Quoting: TurtleManEa I salute the lazy ones, for many times I also like to be lazy. Other times I work 20 hour days non-stop. Who cares? It wasn't laziness, but you already knew that. You keep talking about a 'we' where you come up with all the ideas and do all the enforcement, and I agree to them. Not interested in the positivity you exude when faced with the prospect of your total control. Sorry. You are free to do as you see fit. I’m not forcing anything on anyone. Our greatest problem in this country is that everyone hates the system, but they don’t have any actual ideas to head for. If we cannot come up with potential new ideas, people will just go in circles forever hating the system. Live long and prosper how you choose is best. I’m advocating a system that all people can do just that. try again |
IfYouInsist
User ID: 79271734 United States 01/25/2021 08:53 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | How can I notice what you choose to do with your life? You are showing that the system can work, by being lazy or active when you choose. This is sort of the basis of a “Freedom-Socialist” party. Some people are inherently lazy, but at other times they have tons of energy and want to work. We must allow both to exist in the same system. We can figure how to make it work so why not? Quoting: TurtleManEa I salute the lazy ones, for many times I also like to be lazy. Other times I work 20 hour days non-stop. Who cares? It wasn't laziness, but you already knew that. You keep talking about a 'we' where you come up with all the ideas and do all the enforcement, and I agree to them. Not interested in the positivity you exude when faced with the prospect of your total control. Sorry. You are free to do as you see fit. I’m not forcing anything on anyone. Our greatest problem in this country is that everyone hates the system, but they don’t have any actual ideas to head for. If we cannot come up with potential new ideas, people will just go in circles forever hating the system. Live long and prosper how you choose is best. I’m advocating a system that all people can do just that. The part of the system people hate is the fact that it ruthlessly oppresses dissent and manufactures the same. You too participate in it, even to the point of finessing my replies to fit your narrative. There's something wrong with you to the point where conversation with you just isn't natural--natural like snow falls on the ground; artless, not artificial--and you have the same staged positivity and zeal of practically every politician that already exists. You are therefore not proposing anything new. Please stop lying, or start speaking candidly. Either way, the answer is still no. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 79555450 United States 01/25/2021 08:55 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Because you are a paying member I will grace your post with a reply. Quoting: Gentle Lotus No. That. Will. Not. Work. Freedom can't be stifled. Period. Thank you for your grace. The idea is the most important point. If it can be thought, it can be done. No, in this case it can’t. Socialism requires the government to exert huge amounts of control over the people. Ergo, not freedom. In the 80’s we had a mostly free country and we agreed to provide welfare and support mechanisms for people who were out of work or experiencing a short term financial difficulty. The left, as it always does, destroyed that. They pushed for more, more, more welfare. Make EBT cards hat can be used at ATMs and abused instead of only for food. Make the disability allowance in Social Security a joke by allowing people to get “crazy checks” for all 6 kids by claiming ADHD, or allowing perfectly healthy people to game the system and get disability. The left understands that they need a permanent underclass of people subsisting on handouts from the government to provide votes for them. So in answer to your question, no, it will not work. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 3425388 United States 01/25/2021 08:59 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
TurtleManEa
(OP) User ID: 79462397 United States 01/25/2021 09:15 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Ok I built the initial website: It is not “Freedom-Socialist”, but “Liberty-Socialist”. Send me an email if you are interested in more info: [link to libertysocialistparty.com (secure)] Last Edited by TurtleManEa on 01/25/2021 09:15 AM Blessed are the Peacemakers. “The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds.“ 2 Corinthians 10:4 “No matter how many arrows are shot into the sky, Angels still fly.” |
TurtleManEa
(OP) User ID: 79462397 United States 01/25/2021 09:17 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | what if no one wants to work and they decide to go on strike? Quoting: bRokEnREkkERd what if no one wants to accept your system in the first place? how will you balance the deficits? what happens to the federal reserve? I will inject “metaphysics” into the soulless government to give it life. Blessed are the Peacemakers. “The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds.“ 2 Corinthians 10:4 “No matter how many arrows are shot into the sky, Angels still fly.” |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 3425388 United States 01/25/2021 09:28 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | what if no one wants to work and they decide to go on strike? Quoting: bRokEnREkkERd what if no one wants to accept your system in the first place? how will you balance the deficits? what happens to the federal reserve? I will inject “metaphysics” into the soulless government to give it life. so you will make shit up? that can literally be any set of beliefs you choose to make it... |
TurtleManEa
(OP) User ID: 79462397 United States 01/25/2021 09:40 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | what if no one wants to work and they decide to go on strike? Quoting: bRokEnREkkERd what if no one wants to accept your system in the first place? how will you balance the deficits? what happens to the federal reserve? I will inject “metaphysics” into the soulless government to give it life. so you will make shit up? that can literally be any set of beliefs you choose to make it... No, I take the things that work out of all systems and combine it into something new. Last Edited by TurtleManEa on 01/25/2021 09:41 AM Blessed are the Peacemakers. “The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds.“ 2 Corinthians 10:4 “No matter how many arrows are shot into the sky, Angels still fly.” |