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Message Subject When the air runs out...
Poster Handle IfYouInsist
Post Content
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You need to distinguish between 'good' and 'useful.' A person you and likely I would refer to as good is actually useful, just as the people we would refer to as evil is harmful. But goodness is a matter of birth--ie, nobility. It's a ruling class designation that applies only to itself. Insisting on people being useful as them being good not only glorifies slavery and wrt self-sacrifice an early death, but reinforces slavery, since if a person isn't good, they are evil, and so you end up punishing them for not being useful. All in service of those who are good by birth, and never cease to be so no matter what they do. Again: why bother? All the arguments have been made.
 Quoting: IfYouInsist


I guess our debate breaks into a simple split.

Those you speak of are not in alignment, therefore all are.

I disagree.

And I don't paint everything with the same brush due to the actions of select few
 Quoting: Sol-tari


It is too rare in group behavior for these things not to be reinforced. Supporting humanity per se supports these dynamics. You speak of human goodness as if human goodness were the point. It isn't, not from the standpoint of culture, society, moral systems, or interpersonal relationships.
 Quoting: IfYouInsist


Yes, a number of humans merely follow programming - eventually most think about it.
But much in the way hundreds of years ago it was the morale thing to burn the witch and cheer, or kill and abduct numbers of a neighbour tribe, ideas around good and bad change.
And that's the first time I've said anything of goodness during this exchange.
If the leaders are teaching bad maths, blame the leaders.
Don't yell at the kids because their math is bad.
 Quoting: Sol-tari


All these things still happen; often, you don't even need to call them different things, as many feel compelled to do. Still rarer than the societies or groups which don't do these things are those that do whose members reflect upon them and find themselves to have been mistaken.

Children go down with their parents, because parents own their children. Just because somebody's got to be the bad guy in order to be the good guy doesn't mean that anyone actually will. The job of the centurions is filled, with piles of applications still waiting to be read. As is the job of Caesar. As is the job of Pilate. As is the job of the mob preparing to shout 'crucify him.' No one wants the single job that is actually necessary here. If you say that this is because people are selfish, well, they are about to be taught a lesson for it that history indicates quite clearly they aren't built to learn.
 
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