............

This is all very interesting. I have always felt uncomfortable about much of the writings of Paul. And from another site I have read where he never really seemed to repent for killing Christians, but boasted of it. I consider him a very boastful man.

[link to www.justgivemethetruth.com]

Tell us what a Christian is. Was Judah a Christian?

Judas, correction.

Christians are to submit to the government only when it does not go against God’s laws and His will.

Who is more important

The descendants of captivity

Or

The descendants of Abraham

Who has the right to rule

The descendants of captivity

Or

The descendants of Abraham

A Christian is one who believes that, in and of themselves, there is nothing they can do to make themselves holy and acceptable to be in the Holy Father's presence. We have nothing to offer up but our faith that Jesus Christ, the son of God, gave his life in payment to cover our sins.

Was Judas a Christian? Only God can answer that.

Said Paul. The guy who hated Jesus' guts.

Then he went on to reinterpret the words of Jesus and move the goalposts in subtle ways. And so early Christianity was gaslighted and corrupted.

Here's the thing: You already have a GOLD STANDARD in the words and deeds of Jesus Christ!

Why do you need Paul to tell you what to think?

At the end of John

Isn't Judas with jesus and the others

Wasn't the other pissed at seeing him

Until jesus said never mind him follow me

The others, imo, never quite got how lowly they were in the kingdom of God and that they were to be servants not rulers.

They fought over who would sit beside Jesus - because they craved power and honor. IMO, a true Christian should not desire to be above anyone. I know that I have no desire to rule over another in God's Kingdom. Simply being there is reward enough for me.

[link to www.easyenglish.bible (secure)]

Anyone who claims Paul was not a true Christian is apostate.

You've already been challenged once to prove he contradicted Jesus but you haven't. You only continue to attack Paul.

Your agenda of sowing division is exposed.

I would say anyone who takes the words of Paul over the words of Jesus Christ is an apostate.

Who is your messiah?

1. Paul

2. Jesus Christ

Think before you answer.

except things which would contradict how the Bible tells us to personally live or worship

The most flagrant example is the social gathering restrictions.

If everything is God's will then we have no free will. If we have free will, then open your eyes to the demons who have seized power.

I find it hard to believe you take such a hard line, when what is written about Paul can easily be verified by his own writings. Was he a true Christian? I don't know. What I do know is that he elevated himself so often, it makes one question.

I realize we all would like for every word in the Bible to be inspired by God. But, I ask you what Bible, which one, which edition.

I could say the same about just about every Christian I know, who celebrate pagan holidays such as Christmas and Easter, or who conveniently ignore the Sabbath (which by the way is from sundown on Friday to sundown on Saturday) and was observed as such up until around 300 A.D. when Constantine and the Catholic church bastardize it to pull in the pagans into Christianity. But, I suppose, you ignore this violation of the 10 Commandments.

Even the Catholics admit it in their catechism, yet most Prostestant churches still say the Sabbatgh is Sunday!

In the Convert’s Catechism of Catholic Doctrine, we read:


Q. Which is the Sabbath day?
A. Saturday is the Sabbath day.

Q. Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday?
A. We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church, in the Council of Laodicea, (AD 336) transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday….


[link to www.sabbathtruth.com (secure)]

I've been trying to post evidence Paul keeps contradicting Jesus, but the forum software keeps refusing to post it, and I haven't been able to figure out what word it triggers on.

So, here's a link, listing 25 cases where Paul CLEARLY contradicts Jesus:

[link to www.voiceofjesus.org]

READ IT, and realize you got hoodwinked by a corrupt church, deceived into trusting the words of Paul and rejecting the words of Jesus.

George carlin had few thingsto say which seem to be appropriate today:

The proper translation has always been higher authorities, not civil authority.

It's an error in the King James.

I hesitate to post here, because it's obvious that everyone already has their mind made up...

But, just in case someone doesn't and wants a different opinion, here goes:

It's easy to "cherry pick" a verse out of the Bible and make it say what you want it to say. But, you should look at the whole context of the passage and make your decision from there.

Yes, Romans 13:1 says you should obey your rulers.

Why?!?

Verse 3 goes on to tell us: "3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong."

Basically, this verse is saying that the government is a force for good, and punishes those who do wrong.

Under this set up, OF COURSE we should obey those placed above us to rule. They keep evil at bay by punishing those who do wrong.

BUT, here's the skinny.

We now have a government who calls evil good, and good evil.

They are no longer operating the way God intended them to operate.

They are operating out of his will.

Therefore, we are NOT TO FOLLOW THEM AND OBEY THEM.

JMO/YMMV.

This thread sucks

Due to the selective answering of genuine questions

My mind changes and right now I think you're right. The election was stolen so shouldn't we "get rid of" the thieves? Life just doesn't seem worth living this way and Im sure many will suicide soon. Even if its suicide by cop, still suicide. Just my current thoughts. These people on the left are trying to commit suicide and we should help them to either do so or stop them. Am I wrong?

Nope. Wrong, as always

I agree, understanding the proper context is always essential, and here we have a context of respecting rulers because they are a force for good.

When rulers are no longer a force for good, then this recommendation obviously collapses into its own footprint.

But I want to bring your attention to another crucial point:

What's Jesus' perspective on all this?

It is my humble opinion that Jesus is the gold standard against which all is to be weighed. Everything in the Bible must be interpreted through how it fits with what Jesus had to say about it.

And what Jesus said about rulers, is basically just "give unto Caesar...".

Jesus reminds us that the Kingdom of God is not of this world, that God is concerned with saving our souls, not our physical bodies or making our earthly existence more cnovenient. In other words, God and Jesus give very few fucks about the things we normal humans think are so important, because they see that all of that is worthless dross, and the true thing of value is spirit only.

On the topic of taxes, Jesus tells us to give Caesar what Caesar wants, because it's already his to begin with! Ceasar's face was on the coins in Jesus' time, and our modern day "Caesars" still own the currency we use, because they print it. It's theirs! If they demand iy back, give it to them!

BUT!

Jesus also reminds us that our souls are the property of God, and we should return God's property to him as well.

Jesus is ONLY concerned with our spiritual destiny - he is here to save our souls, nothing else! Everything he says about earthly things is said in the context of explaining God's kingdom, and how we can merit entrance to it.

Because NOTHING ELSE FUCKING MATTERS to God.

Anything that detracts or distracts from this simple message is in effect derailing you from the path laid out by Jesus.

I have read them and their 'argument' is pathetically weak. Simply quoting and making a list of selective passages and then not even making an attempt at explaining how they contradict each other is the first giveaway that there is malice behind that website.

Second giveaway is the literal interpretation of each passage showing they're not a true believer for they would know much of the Bible is symbolic and employs parables or allegory to make a point.

Many of those so called 'contradictions' make no sense whatsoever and are easily dismissible by someone who has, unlike the reader it is intended for, far more than a cursory knowledge of the Bible and the Holy Spirit to guide them.

It is you that makes the assertion Paul contradicts Jesus so it is for you to prove your point.

I've already figured out your agenda and I'm not going to play on your polluted playground.

Its simple. They cancelled thousands of out votes therefore its,

TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION.

Thank you for your well thought out response, and, for not being a dick/dickess!

I'm 95% with you on your thinking.

The 5% I disagree with is that Jesus is ONLY concerned with our spiritual DESTINY.

I completely agree that he is concerned with the destiny of our souls, and his teaching revolved around HOW TO FIND/ACQUIRE the Kingdom of Heaven. (The Kingdom of Heaven is within, etc.)

But, Jesus own words tells us WHY he came to Earth:

“The Spirit of the Lord is upon me,
because he has anointed me
to proclaim good news to the poor.
He has sent me to proclaim liberty to the captives
and recovering of sight to the blind,
to set at liberty those who are oppressed,
19 to proclaim the year of the Lord's favor.”

Now, I don't take the above as just caring about our future after we die.

It is FOR TODAY.

Life to the fullest TODAY.

Liberty to those who are oppressed TODAY.

Freedom to the broken heart TODAY.

Yes, those are all spiritual things, but Jesus came to also teach us how to be 100% human in this world as well.

In my opinion, that requires us to care for physical and mental needs of others as well.

Fighting for and caring for others is a huge part of our journey on earth, and that takes physical action sometimes.

I don't see how voluntarily being steamrolled by evil accomplishes that task.

Sometimes, fighting is necessary.

Maybe, even to the death?

I do know one thing: I don't have it all figured out yet, so thanks for sharing your opinion.

It helps a lot.

Last Edited by AnneFranksDrumKit on 11/14/2020 12:01 PM

All authority is derived from the use of force and/or the threat of use of force.

At that point the only questions are whether you can meet or surpass it with your own use of force, and whether you are willing to exert your own authority.

All of a cops "authority" comes from a small caliber handgun on his hip for instance, so you can submit or carry a rifle and soft armour everywhere.

There is no legitimate authority besides your own.

The clay represents church and state. They don't mingle together, this is where we are right now. Jesus told us give to Caesar what is Caesar's and now we are at a precipice because they no longer follow the rules of the Creator. If the evangelicals knew that it was Jesus who with His own finger carved out the 10 commandments it would cause them to rethink who Jesus really is. Jesus was in the burning bush, the whole bible is about Jesus. In the beginning was the Word- Jesus is the "I Am".