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COVID-19 News, Info, Discussion /// Tracking the Spread of the Virus and its Effects /// October Lockdown for UK (pg. 774)

 
CoronaCoaster  (OP)

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04/20/2021 08:24 PM
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Re: COVID-19 News, Info, Discussion /// Tracking the Spread of the Virus and its Effects /// October Lockdown for UK (pg. 774)
motherofgod


*rubs eyes*

Dutchy it's you, you're really back!

It's me 'newstard'. You used to post early on in this thread when it was active last year if you remember.

So good to see you again my friend. Hope it's not just a fleeting visit! hf
 Quoting: CoronaCoaster


You have to (in straight forward language) explain that we like him for the whole package.... not his sexy maths.
 Quoting: CleverCreator


The whole package? Well of course, there's the science he gives aswell as the math. We can't forget that. tounge

But seriously, Dutchy, your moral presence and humor has been missed. :)
Lago

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04/20/2021 08:27 PM
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Re: COVID-19 News, Info, Discussion /// Tracking the Spread of the Virus and its Effects /// October Lockdown for UK (pg. 774)
Most Americans who haven’t gotten a vaccine say they don’t plan to, poll shows... [link to www.washingtonpost.com (secure)]
Lago
CoronaCoaster  (OP)

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04/20/2021 08:31 PM
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Re: COVID-19 News, Info, Discussion /// Tracking the Spread of the Virus and its Effects /// October Lockdown for UK (pg. 774)
Thumper is like a mischevous little child. Sometimes I just have to shake my head and laugh. Oh well, time to restrict the AC posting just before I log off for the night...

Last Edited by CoronaCoaster on 04/20/2021 08:59 PM
CoronaCoaster  (OP)

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04/20/2021 08:36 PM
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Re: COVID-19 News, Info, Discussion /// Tracking the Spread of the Virus and its Effects /// October Lockdown for UK (pg. 774)
Worker at Auckland Airport in New Zealand tests positive

The person had their second vax weeks ago...

Their job is to clean planes that have come from high-risk countries. However it doesn't appear they came into close contact with an infected.

[link to www.rnz.co.nz (secure)]

Fomites? Stale air inside the plane?

1dunno1
Dutchy20

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04/20/2021 08:41 PM
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Re: COVID-19 News, Info, Discussion /// Tracking the Spread of the Virus and its Effects /// October Lockdown for UK (pg. 774)
The whole package? Well of course, there's the science he gives aswell as the math. We can't forget that. tounge

But seriously, Dutchy, your moral presence and humor has been missed. :)
 Quoting: CoronaCoaster


If you missed my humor things must have been pretty bad around here =\

Most Americans who haven’t gotten a vaccine say they don’t plan to, poll shows... [link to www.washingtonpost.com (secure)]
 Quoting: Lago


70% is way to low.

85% to 90ish would be ideal given natural R0 from all estimates that I find reasonable. Keep in mind that a change from 70% to 85% would slow the eventual spread rate by 50%, it would double your time to react. ~90% is normally the maximum vaccinable population due to risk factors/age limitations/some people not being effected.
Vaid
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CoronaCoaster  (OP)

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04/20/2021 08:41 PM
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Re: COVID-19 News, Info, Discussion /// Tracking the Spread of the Virus and its Effects /// October Lockdown for UK (pg. 774)
Well, maybe in the older variants it could have helped. In the newer variants, doubtful.


CoronaCoaster  (OP)

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04/20/2021 08:43 PM
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Re: COVID-19 News, Info, Discussion /// Tracking the Spread of the Virus and its Effects /// October Lockdown for UK (pg. 774)
Dosha

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04/20/2021 08:44 PM

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Re: COVID-19 News, Info, Discussion /// Tracking the Spread of the Virus and its Effects /// October Lockdown for UK (pg. 774)
My intent was to disable AC posting in the thread only when I'm planning to be away from GLP all day long... but a certain obsessed Thumper has become desperate for attention 24/7, so whenever I'm away from GLP for any period of time no matter how short, I will probably have to disable the AC posting. My apologies to the other ACs who this might affect unfairly. hf
 Quoting: CoronaCoaster


It's sad really. A few trolls intent on banging the same drum and undermining those wanting to provide good information with repetitive propaganda. Some ACs being good stuff but it's being drowned right now!
 Quoting: lightning1977


jay

The trolls have DT's covid thread as a sandbox to play in where they can spew insults and BS all day if they so wish. It's quite revealing about what they are and what their purpose is when that's clearly not enough for them because they keep going to the other threads to aim to disrupt them also. Well, not on my watch they won't.
 Quoting: CoronaCoaster


hf
Thank you sooooo much for this!
Dosha
Dutchy20

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Re: COVID-19 News, Info, Discussion /// Tracking the Spread of the Virus and its Effects /// October Lockdown for UK (pg. 774)
Worker at Auckland Airport in New Zealand tests positive

The person had their second vax weeks ago...

Their job is to clean planes that have come from high-risk countries. However it doesn't appear they came into close contact with an infected.

[link to www.rnz.co.nz (secure)]

Fomites? Stale air inside the plane?

1dunno1
 Quoting: CoronaCoaster


Anecdotal. A 100% effectiveness of the vaccine should not be expected, so the fact a person that was vaccinated got it is not significant. How the person got it? Most likely they are lying to protect someone/themselves from negative consequences for not following rules. Though fomite spread cannot be ruled out, but it's unlikely. I'm leaning towards drug smuggling personally. KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid) is a good principle to adhere to when it comes to people.
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CoronaCoaster  (OP)

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04/20/2021 08:48 PM
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Re: COVID-19 News, Info, Discussion /// Tracking the Spread of the Virus and its Effects /// October Lockdown for UK (pg. 774)
More evidence on the increased severity from variants.

Interested on your take on P1, Dutchy... putting the higher transmissibility factor aside, would you say the variant is more severe and aggressive in how it attacks the body? Do you think younger people, and what would be considered healthier people, are more at risk from this variant compared to the older variants?


CoronaCoaster  (OP)

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Re: COVID-19 News, Info, Discussion /// Tracking the Spread of the Virus and its Effects /// October Lockdown for UK (pg. 774)
Situation deteriorating in Japan

12 weeks till the Olympics...

Dutchy20

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04/20/2021 09:12 PM
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Re: COVID-19 News, Info, Discussion /// Tracking the Spread of the Virus and its Effects /// October Lockdown for UK (pg. 774)
More evidence on the increased severity from variants.

Interested on your take on P1, Dutchy... putting the higher transmissibility factor aside, would you say the variant is more severe and aggressive in how it attacks the body? Do you think younger people, and what would be considered healthier people, are more at risk from this variant compared to the older variants?



 Quoting: CoronaCoaster


I've tried to keep on top of it all but I've missed a lot over the past few months. There are consistent flaws in all the data that I do see regarding new variants however. Most notably:

1) We never really got a clear picture of what Covid really is. The manifestation of symptoms is so wide that we don't know really if we are comparing apples to pears/oranges or banana's. That in itself is bananas but leads us into 2.
2) We don't know if these patients having more severe symptoms now had prior infections that were mildly symptomatic or asymptomatic.
3) I've not been looking at the detail as I normally would have which means that I am missing a lot of nuance. The way a study is structured can have significant implications on the results/conclusions. Often times the news articles just use anecdotal evidence of a doctor seeing more cases without much detail of what to that aught to be compared to.

My take overall is that I don't see P1 (British VOC) having a significant impact (Let me emphasize I look at data, I'm not a doctor/nurse and I don't envy anybody or want to criticize anyone giving bedside care), but I'm not seeing a significant change. Had I been paying more attention to brazil it may have been evident but I haven't, and data from there is questionable. That said I am not so much worried about the current variants as I am at the sudden realization that what I thought was a relatively stable virus seems to be changing rapidly (This started well before vaccines, we just seemingly willingly missed it).

Edit: I'm realizing that most of my posts today are pretty much boiling down to: "Here's why we can't really know..." Sorry about that.

Last Edited by Dutchy20 on 04/20/2021 09:18 PM
Vaid
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Anonymous Coward
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04/20/2021 09:22 PM
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Re: COVID-19 News, Info, Discussion /// Tracking the Spread of the Virus and its Effects /// October Lockdown for UK (pg. 774)
Thumper is like a mischevous little child. Sometimes I just have to shake my head and laugh. Oh well, time to restrict the AC posting just before I log off for the night...
 Quoting: CoronaCoaster


hugs
Dosha

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04/20/2021 10:34 PM

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Re: COVID-19 News, Info, Discussion /// Tracking the Spread of the Virus and its Effects /// October Lockdown for UK (pg. 774)
They won’t have to do a lockdown....

Not when things grind down and too many are sick.

We all get there.... in the end.
 Quoting: CleverCreator


Redacted

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 80246621


The thing that I enjoy about you going off the deep end.....

I admitted that my timing was off. And you ignored that.

Do you know what I have not be wrong about?

1... no such thing as herd immunity

2... it’s endemic... this won’t end

3... there are cascading illnesses that come with being infected

4... the birth rate will continue to fall

Keep being a raging cock.... all the better to fuck yourself with.

idiot
 Quoting: CleverCreator


I've tried from the beginning to simplify this to a "period" of time. We keep speaking of two weeks but this is highly simplified and negates the extreme nuance and range in factors that make the reality of the situation at hand deceptive. Two weeks works for most cases but not all. Three months is a more comfy range when there is sustained spread. This means it takes three months for measures to take full effect and to show the full effect of relieving measures. The "peak" may be around two weeks but Covid has a long tail. Covid will not go away if you manage it around the peak. If it does not go away you allow for mutations and new risks.

This means that if the goals are set on a two week new cases/new hospitalizations rate you will reduce the rate but never eliminate the spread unless you trace all cases (Islands have a advantage here). This simple deduction supports conclusions 1 and 2 above. 3 and 4 are harder to establish currently but would be hardly surprising to anyone that has been following along.
 Quoting: Dutchy20


What you say seems to be the reality in Riverside County (So Cal) right now.

Friday had 3.6 per 100,000 and 2.0% positivity. (Been those numbers for awhile.) 90 Hospitalized and 21 in ICU. Deaths are continuing to ratchet up, although at a slower pace then when we had our surge (Dec-Feb). Today, Tuesday we are now at 4.5 per 100,000 and 2.3% positivity. Hospitalizations are at 82 and 14 in ICU.

The lines at Kaiser sites to get the Covid vaccine are quite long, everytime I pass them. Lots of people choosing to take this.

It going to be interesting to watch what happens. Many people now seem to think because they have gotten at least one of the shots they are okay to resume normal behaviors. I don't know, but I have a bad feeling about down the way (maybe I'm just a worry wart).
Dosha
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04/20/2021 11:04 PM
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Re: COVID-19 News, Info, Discussion /// Tracking the Spread of the Virus and its Effects /// October Lockdown for UK (pg. 774)
Dosha.... this is one time being a worry wart is the most important job.

Folks are going to keep that letting loose feel good vibe flowing and aeroplanes are a flying.....

It’s fine. Until it’s not.
lightning1977

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04/21/2021 05:47 AM
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Re: COVID-19 News, Info, Discussion /// Tracking the Spread of the Virus and its Effects /// October Lockdown for UK (pg. 774)
What do you not need with a shortage of oxygen and many dependent patients. A catastrophic oxygen leakage.



Last Edited by lightning1977 on 04/21/2021 05:47 AM
lightning1977

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04/21/2021 05:49 AM
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Re: COVID-19 News, Info, Discussion /// Tracking the Spread of the Virus and its Effects /// October Lockdown for UK (pg. 774)
Clinical real world vaccine efficacy results

ParamedicUK

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04/21/2021 06:07 AM

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Re: COVID-19 News, Info, Discussion /// Tracking the Spread of the Virus and its Effects /// October Lockdown for UK (pg. 774)
Dosha.... this is one time being a worry wart is the most important job.

Folks are going to keep that letting loose feel good vibe flowing and aeroplanes are a flying.....

It’s fine. Until it’s not.
 Quoting: CleverCreator


Matt Hancock leaked yesterday that there was no guarantee the vaccines would protect against the Indian variant. In other words it doesn’t work!!!!

All looks nice in the U.K. until it’s not !
Herd immunity and vaccine free is the only way……

Peace not War.
Diffster

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04/21/2021 06:16 AM

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Re: COVID-19 News, Info, Discussion /// Tracking the Spread of the Virus and its Effects /// October Lockdown for UK (pg. 774)
Dosha.... this is one time being a worry wart is the most important job.

Folks are going to keep that letting loose feel good vibe flowing and aeroplanes are a flying.....

It’s fine. Until it’s not.
 Quoting: CleverCreator


Matt Hancock leaked yesterday that there was no guarantee the vaccines would protect against the Indian variant. In other words it doesn’t work!!!!

All looks nice in the U.K. until it’s not !
 Quoting: ParamedicUK


Here in Cardiff, and in Wales as a whole, cases have recently been very low. Over the last couple of days we’ve had clusters emerging in Cardiff (around 20 cases) in Grangetown and Riverside wards, which both have large Indian populations (probably around 5-10 thousand Indians).

It’s emerged in the last hour that 8 cases of the Indian variant have been detected in Wales. Given that only 25% of positive tests are sequenced, there are probably 30 Indians in Wales with the variant. Grangetown/Riverside is the biggest ghetto in Wales so I’d imagine that some of those cases are in these wards.

I live one mile away from Grangetown.

Last Edited by Diffster on 04/21/2021 06:34 AM
ParamedicUK

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04/21/2021 07:05 AM

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Re: COVID-19 News, Info, Discussion /// Tracking the Spread of the Virus and its Effects /// October Lockdown for UK (pg. 774)
Dosha.... this is one time being a worry wart is the most important job.

Folks are going to keep that letting loose feel good vibe flowing and aeroplanes are a flying.....

It’s fine. Until it’s not.
 Quoting: CleverCreator


Matt Hancock leaked yesterday that there was no guarantee the vaccines would protect against the Indian variant. In other words it doesn’t work!!!!

All looks nice in the U.K. until it’s not !
 Quoting: ParamedicUK


Here in Cardiff, and in Wales as a whole, cases have recently been very low. Over the last couple of days we’ve had clusters emerging in Cardiff (around 20 cases) in Grangetown and Riverside wards, which both have large Indian populations (probably around 5-10 thousand Indians).

It’s emerged in the last hour that 8 cases of the Indian variant have been detected in Wales. Given that only 25% of positive tests are sequenced, there are probably 30 Indians in Wales with the variant. Grangetown/Riverside is the biggest ghetto in Wales so I’d imagine that some of those cases are in these wards.

I live one mile away from Grangetown.
 Quoting: Diffster


Yep until a two days ago India was not even on the red list. Vast areas in the U.K. have high Indian populations with high density. That along with increased transmission and the variant evading the testing could cause massive issues very quickly.
Herd immunity and vaccine free is the only way……

Peace not War.
Anonymous Coward
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04/21/2021 07:46 AM
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Re: COVID-19 News, Info, Discussion /// Tracking the Spread of the Virus and its Effects /// October Lockdown for UK (pg. 774)
Dosha.... this is one time being a worry wart is the most important job.

Folks are going to keep that letting loose feel good vibe flowing and aeroplanes are a flying.....

It’s fine. Until it’s not.
 Quoting: CleverCreator


Matt Hancock leaked yesterday that there was no guarantee the vaccines would protect against the Indian variant. In other words it doesn’t work!!!!

All looks nice in the U.K. until it’s not !
 Quoting: ParamedicUK


Here in Cardiff, and in Wales as a whole, cases have recently been very low. Over the last couple of days we’ve had clusters emerging in Cardiff (around 20 cases) in Grangetown and Riverside wards, which both have large Indian populations (probably around 5-10 thousand Indians).

It’s emerged in the last hour that 8 cases of the Indian variant have been detected in Wales. Given that only 25% of positive tests are sequenced, there are probably 30 Indians in Wales with the variant. Grangetown/Riverside is the biggest ghetto in Wales so I’d imagine that some of those cases are in these wards.

I live one mile away from Grangetown.
 Quoting: Diffster


Wooooosah. Right at lessening of restrictions.
Elevatorguy

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Re: COVID-19 News, Info, Discussion /// Tracking the Spread of the Virus and its Effects /// October Lockdown for UK (pg. 774)
Im home this morning. So the experience of a hospital ICU during a pandemic was surreal. Our relative was slowly fading last night. No update yet this morning but it wont be long now. She had begun drawing up yesterday before we left to visit the funeral home to get that ball rolling. The point of this post is about the reasons we left yesterday.

At around one pm a nurse came into the room and informed me and my mother-in-law that all visitors from the hospice wing had to vacate as they were bringing two critical Covid patients in for palliative care.

My sister-in-law (bless her heart /s) was a little indignant when we told her because "we have been vaccinated. Why do we have to leave??". The wife then explained about exactly the limits of the shots are and how that is why she and i remained masked up with eye protection the whole trip. Why we stayed in a room away from everyone. Why we didn't hang out with them in the family rooms at the hospital and instead either went to the car or lingered outside until our next rotation to sit with our relative.

Her response was, "Well, K (me) is kind of liberal and believes everything." My wife just sighed and said, "...yeah.".

Well, we did our best in a grave situation. Now will be the funeral with these dummies within the week. In our relatives funeral plans (very thorough btw), she asked for me and her son to be the lead pallbearers so I absolutely have to attend.
lightning1977

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04/21/2021 08:49 AM
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Re: COVID-19 News, Info, Discussion /// Tracking the Spread of the Virus and its Effects /// October Lockdown for UK (pg. 774)
Im home this morning. So the experience of a hospital ICU during a pandemic was surreal. Our relative was slowly fading last night. No update yet this morning but it wont be long now. She had begun drawing up yesterday before we left to visit the funeral home to get that ball rolling. The point of this post is about the reasons we left yesterday.

At around one pm a nurse came into the room and informed me and my mother-in-law that all visitors from the hospice wing had to vacate as they were bringing two critical Covid patients in for palliative care.

My sister-in-law (bless her heart /s) was a little indignant when we told her because "we have been vaccinated. Why do we have to leave??". The wife then explained about exactly the limits of the shots are and how that is why she and i remained masked up with eye protection the whole trip. Why we stayed in a room away from everyone. Why we didn't hang out with them in the family rooms at the hospital and instead either went to the car or lingered outside until our next rotation to sit with our relative.

Her response was, "Well, K (me) is kind of liberal and believes everything." My wife just sighed and said, "...yeah.".

Well, we did our best in a grave situation. Now will be the funeral with these dummies within the week. In our relatives funeral plans (very thorough btw), she asked for me and her son to be the lead pallbearers so I absolutely have to attend.
 Quoting: Elevatorguy


My thoughts are with you Liftchap
lightning1977

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04/21/2021 08:49 AM
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Re: COVID-19 News, Info, Discussion /// Tracking the Spread of the Virus and its Effects /// October Lockdown for UK (pg. 774)
Fake vaccines, better or worse than the real thing do you think!?

lightning1977

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04/21/2021 08:52 AM
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Who knows!

Anonymous Coward
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04/21/2021 08:55 AM
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Re: COVID-19 News, Info, Discussion /// Tracking the Spread of the Virus and its Effects /// October Lockdown for UK (pg. 774)
Im home this morning. So the experience of a hospital ICU during a pandemic was surreal. Our relative was slowly fading last night. No update yet this morning but it wont be long now. She had begun drawing up yesterday before we left to visit the funeral home to get that ball rolling. The point of this post is about the reasons we left yesterday.

At around one pm a nurse came into the room and informed me and my mother-in-law that all visitors from the hospice wing had to vacate as they were bringing two critical Covid patients in for palliative care.

My sister-in-law (bless her heart /s) was a little indignant when we told her because "we have been vaccinated. Why do we have to leave??". The wife then explained about exactly the limits of the shots are and how that is why she and i remained masked up with eye protection the whole trip. Why we stayed in a room away from everyone. Why we didn't hang out with them in the family rooms at the hospital and instead either went to the car or lingered outside until our next rotation to sit with our relative.

Her response was, "Well, K (me) is kind of liberal and believes everything." My wife just sighed and said, "...yeah.".

Well, we did our best in a grave situation. Now will be the funeral with these dummies within the week. In our relatives funeral plans (very thorough btw), she asked for me and her son to be the lead pallbearers so I absolutely have to attend.
 Quoting: Elevatorguy


My thoughts are with you Liftchap
 Quoting: lightning1977


And our love! :prayers:
Elevatorguy

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04/21/2021 09:22 AM
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Re: COVID-19 News, Info, Discussion /// Tracking the Spread of the Virus and its Effects /// October Lockdown for UK (pg. 774)
Im home this morning. So the experience of a hospital ICU during a pandemic was surreal. Our relative was slowly fading last night. No update yet this morning but it wont be long now. She had begun drawing up yesterday before we left to visit the funeral home to get that ball rolling. The point of this post is about the reasons we left yesterday.

At around one pm a nurse came into the room and informed me and my mother-in-law that all visitors from the hospice wing had to vacate as they were bringing two critical Covid patients in for palliative care.

My sister-in-law (bless her heart /s) was a little indignant when we told her because "we have been vaccinated. Why do we have to leave??". The wife then explained about exactly the limits of the shots are and how that is why she and i remained masked up with eye protection the whole trip. Why we stayed in a room away from everyone. Why we didn't hang out with them in the family rooms at the hospital and instead either went to the car or lingered outside until our next rotation to sit with our relative.

Her response was, "Well, K (me) is kind of liberal and believes everything." My wife just sighed and said, "...yeah.".

Well, we did our best in a grave situation. Now will be the funeral with these dummies within the week. In our relatives funeral plans (very thorough btw), she asked for me and her son to be the lead pallbearers so I absolutely have to attend.
 Quoting: Elevatorguy


My thoughts are with you Liftchap
 Quoting: lightning1977


And our love! prayers
 Quoting: CleverCreator


Thank you all. God, I hate to say this but it felt good to go on a road trip. We brought food and we only stopped for fuel (pay at pump). Wife had to use the loo twice as she cant free Willy into the bushes like me...and while Love's truckstops are sketchy for a variety of reasons, the ass-on-toilet scenario was the most unnerving. But, regardless, driving through Arkansas, Oklahoma and up into the foothills of the Ozarks into Missouri in Springtime was glorious after staying local for a year.
Anonymous Coward
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04/21/2021 09:39 AM
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Re: COVID-19 News, Info, Discussion /// Tracking the Spread of the Virus and its Effects /// October Lockdown for UK (pg. 774)
EG.... it’s a crappy reason .... but yeah, that sounds fucking lovely.

Hang in there. Your family are in our hearts.
Texan Buckeye

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04/21/2021 09:44 AM

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Re: COVID-19 News, Info, Discussion /// Tracking the Spread of the Virus and its Effects /// October Lockdown for UK (pg. 774)
Im home this morning. So the experience of a hospital ICU during a pandemic was surreal. Our relative was slowly fading last night. No update yet this morning but it wont be long now. She had begun drawing up yesterday before we left to visit the funeral home to get that ball rolling. The point of this post is about the reasons we left yesterday.

At around one pm a nurse came into the room and informed me and my mother-in-law that all visitors from the hospice wing had to vacate as they were bringing two critical Covid patients in for palliative care.

My sister-in-law (bless her heart /s) was a little indignant when we told her because "we have been vaccinated. Why do we have to leave??". The wife then explained about exactly the limits of the shots are and how that is why she and i remained masked up with eye protection the whole trip. Why we stayed in a room away from everyone. Why we didn't hang out with them in the family rooms at the hospital and instead either went to the car or lingered outside until our next rotation to sit with our relative.

Her response was, "Well, K (me) is kind of liberal and believes everything." My wife just sighed and said, "...yeah.".

Well, we did our best in a grave situation. Now will be the funeral with these dummies within the week. In our relatives funeral plans (very thorough btw), she asked for me and her son to be the lead pallbearers so I absolutely have to attend.
 Quoting: Elevatorguy


My thoughts are with you Liftchap
 Quoting: lightning1977


Mine, too, hon. It's a tough situation to start with. Adding covid to the mix makes it worse.

Hang in there. We're here if you need us.
ParamedicUK

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04/21/2021 09:48 AM

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Re: COVID-19 News, Info, Discussion /// Tracking the Spread of the Virus and its Effects /// October Lockdown for UK (pg. 774)
If it’s the Indian variant then it might be a big issue ?

Otherwise as all the elderly and vulnerable are vaxxed it should not cause a hospitalisation issue.

Covid: Government scientist warns of summer surge in cases

Prof Adam Finn, of the Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation, says modelling points to a rise in cases, as many adults are not immunised.

He said the UK was still "vulnerable" and the dates for easing restrictions may need adjusting.

The PM has said there is nothing in the data to suggest the next step in easing lockdown cannot go ahead as planned.

But Boris Johnson said that most scientists were "firmly of the view" that there would be a third wave of the virus at some point this year......

[link to www.bbc.co.uk (secure)]

Last Edited by ParamedicUK on 04/21/2021 09:50 AM
Herd immunity and vaccine free is the only way……

Peace not War.





GLP