Defending the Pre-trib rapture **** New and Improved

Well, so much rationalization here... No witness or testimony based on KNOWLEDGE.

The critical Knowledge Jesus refers to in Matt 16:13-20. Where HE Asks The Apostles: "WHO Do You Say I AM?" Only Peter KNOWS... "Thou are The Christ! Son of The Living God!" and Jesus Says that ONLY The Father Could Have Put That KNOWLEDGE Upon Your Heart."

It is "Upon This Rock" (Having Been Given KNOWLEDGE Of WHO Jesus IS BY The Father) upon which HE Builds HIS Church...

KNOWING WHO HE IS is what Calls Us Unto The Father... HIS Invitation To Be Born-Again and Attend The Wedding Feast For HIS Son (Matt 22:1-14)


The Concise Witness of The Born-Again Life, from Ezekiel ch 36:
26. A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.


Further Witness By Jesus in Matt 13:11-15 after Disciples ask HIM, "Why do YOU Teach using parables?" To which HE answers in verse 15: (my paraphrase) "So that those who seek with their head, unable to Hear/See The Gospel with their heart Will NOT Understand: lest they be converted and I should have to heal them!"

Looking for "proofs"? The only place to look is in your heart.... How much are you willing to Trust God????


Then there's St. Pauls Witness to Timothy in 2nd Tim 2:6 where Paul says that those who would preach/teach/minister "Ought First Be Partakers of The Fruits"; meaning Ezekiel 36:26-27 Born-Agains.... But, in Laodicea, the clergy have divinity degrees and denominational credentials. They aren't Partakers, and that's why they can't Witness To You or guide you in your efforts to find Relationship With God.


There's no KNOWING before you Come Unto The Father. You have to Come Unto HIM in brokenness and out of Faith. Christ Jesus Made The Way For Us on calvary. Up to us to decide to Trust God with all we are and then Take Action and Tell HIM So...

By the time every human being hear's God's Angel of Rev 14:7 Give Witness, it will be too late. The Age Of Faith will have ended.

From then on, you are either Of-HIM and live your life Through HIM, or you are on your own...



Believing in rapture is proof you aren't Born-Again.

Jesus Witnesses in Matt 7:21-23 that HE Only KNOWS Those Who "Do The Will Of MY Father Which Art In Heaven".

Only by Being Ezekiel 36:26-27 Born-Again are we Enabled to KNOW and DO Father's Will...


"Marvel not that I Say unto you, Ye MUST Be Born-Again!"

Bible is very clear.
Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

Who cares about the word rapture. Let’s use words called up. Bible aka the word of God is more important than what you feel in your heart, I mean that kindly, I’m sorry if it sounds offensive. All love brother. Yes it is at the very end when we get called up.

Sorry, I left out what verse that is I quoted. 1 Thessalonians 4:17

No its not.. the actual rapture means fusing with your Father Fragment. Enoch was the first to do that on this world...About 1000 had done so when Jesus came and about 1000 more since then..

Some folks on earth and Christianity is not a requirment.. will fuse during the magnetic reversal. This is fact.

:Divine timing:

Matthew 22:1-14 is Jesus' Witness about HIS Purpose and what Christianity is all about...

1. And Jesus answered and spake unto them again by parables, and said,
2. The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son,


3. And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come.
4. Again, he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come unto the marriage.
5. But they made light of it, and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his merchandise:
6. And the remnant took his servants, and entreated them spitefully, and slew them.
7. But when the king heard thereof, he was wroth: and he sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city.


8. Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy.
9. Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage.
10. So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.


11. And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:
12. And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.
13. Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.


14. For many are called, but few are chosen.


Your "wedding garment" is your Born-Again Heart... Got one?

Presumably the wedding crasher really wanted to be there... He just wasn't acceptable. No Wedding Garment...


Jesus Concludes HIS Witness with "For many are Called, but few are Chosen."

HE means there, in verse 14, that Few Choose To Answer God's Call.

Everyone who KNOWS WHO Jesus Is was Called...
Only a Few will choose-Elect to make their surrender and give their all Unto The Father...


Who are The Very Elect of Matt 24:21-24? They're those who Chose-Elected to give their all Unto The Father... It is for their sake Jesus Says that the days will be shortened (lest no flesh remain alive!)


Claim to Trust God, do you?

Faith without works is dead... The "works" that make your Faith Alive is Manifesting Your Heart Unto The Father and Taking Action Through Jesus By your Faith.


But hey, aren't you waiting to be on of The Taken?
Do you realize Those Taken are to be found dead in the ditch with "eagles" (birds of carrion) eating their flesh?

See yourself as one of the 5 wise virgins?
Nothing honorable in that...

The so-called "wise" virgins would not share their oil, or even suggest they all remain to greet The Groom... Better 10 with only 5 lights than only 5 with lights, but so easy to misinterperet Scripture. Those who aren't Partakers Of The Fruits do it all the time...


The Time Is Now, if you're ever gonna be HIS!


Maranatha!!!

I will not argue with you. I will pray for you though brother. There is only one name under heaven for which all men must be saved. No man comes to the father except through Jesus Christ. Unless you partake of his flesh and drink his blood. (Accept his sacrifice on the cross, his flesh for punishment of sin, and his blood for the forgiveness of sin)

Seek the Lord with all your heart man. He will show you

Oh for God's Sake, you are just full of shit!

Enoch???


God The Son Manifests to Bring The Gospel and Enable The WAY For Us To Live In Constant Conscious Contact With The Father, and you talk about Enoch...

Got it all understood your way, right?
May as well try a serenade of My Way when begging for entry unto Heaven...

Matt 7:22 has those Christians reminding Jesus that they "did Miracles, Cast-Out demons, and Prophesied In HIS Name". They were hoping to get admitted to Heaven.

But they were never Born-Again!
Jesus Tells them: "Depart from ME, you who work iniquity: I KNOW YOU NOT!"

21. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23. And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.


Like those who The King invited to HIS Wedding Feast originally. Too busy doing their own thing... Believing their carnal heart rather than finding their way to Trust God Fully.

"Many were Called, but few are Chosen!"


God Bless you if you can make the choice to Trust God Fully with all you are and ever will be.

I banned all is one is all from the thread. This stuff is not biblical.

NOPE. Like HELL you didn't.

You're trying to split hairs.

YOU are TRYING to claim that just because Acts records the "moment" that they decided to preach ONLY to Hebrews - that the decision LASTED THROUGHOUT their lives.

HISTORY PROVES your ASSumption to be WRONG.

Thomas to India.
Andrew to all sorts of places.
Matthew to Africa.
John ended up on Patmos.


Where did he say "Paul only to the "J.w's"????? He didn't. Yet your thread buddy says Paul ONLY for gentiles.

Thread: The "Body of Christ" understand right division and follow Paul

"God the Son"?

Where is that in the Bible?

It's NOT. It's manmade theology.

Drop the "church" teachings and READ ALL the verses that Jesus said about the Father.

Thread: Son of God - Jesus' Relationship To The Father - John 17 and More - Bible Study

Where did I say anything against what you said?

I merely posted scripture.

Still wondering if freedom is going to answer the rebuttal from page 4.

Thread: Defending the Pre-trib rapture **** New and Improved (Page 4)

History, serious Bible study and scripture itself proves ALL of his "arguments" to be of no real consequence.

"Paul Only" theology is pure nonsense.

That is why I have this thread. I would like to hear from pre-tribbers. So far none have really come forward with pretrib scripture.

You must feel you are better then the 2 witnesses, the 144K and the rememant who will definitely be here during the tribulation.

Rev 14:4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. 5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.

Rev 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

Rev 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

No it is the pretrib rapture that is false and you are leading people in error. You do not believe God can protect his people.

Read Matthew 24 it even clearly states "after". You cannot get before out of after.

What is before the tribulation and what is after?

The Wrath of God is after the tribulation and the second coming of Christ. That is when he gathers his elect but I guess the pretribbers are not part of the elect.

Try this when someone just insists on clinging to the man made doctrine, ask them, "Did Jesus himself mix this up because he is crystal clear in Matthew 24?"

Ever single time I havediscussed this in reql life with someone clinging tothis false doctrine, they cannot clearly define the difference between Tribulation and Wrath. So straight away, it's obvious they have not studied the Bible. The Tribulation happens, the Rapture then happens,then GOD unleashes Wrath upon those left behind.

The holders of this false doctrine don't know the Bible well enough to the stages that the Bible clearly depicts.

This forces them to discuss a "secret rapture" which occus nowhere in Scripture.

[link to www.biblegateway.com (secure)]

Try this. Ask a Pre-Tribulation Rature proponent to define the "parousia". They can't do it, yet thatis a core Christian belief since Jesus Christ was born.

They shouldn't be teaching anyone anything if they don't even know this much.

This is why the New Testament warns that "Not all should be teachers..." in James 3:1.

Or you're wrong.

Since you know, tell me.

The definition of a Christian heretic is one who holds Christian beliefs that are not Biblically based and even perpetuate those beliefs.

Why are you so lazy?

Those who make a claim are responsible to prve their claim. The topic is looking for one iota of Biblical proof of a Pre-Tribulation Rapture. None exists. Even theologians admit this.

And that is anyone that disagrees with you, of course...

In your opinion.

Would you like, right this very moment, to be most astonished to find yourself suddenly seized away without warning,
and then to find yourself suddenly standing before Jesus Christ, and then to remain with Him forever thereafter?
Right now. Can you say Yes?

Better hurry. He will be revealed this summer.