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The Production Of Ventilators And Using Auto Production Plants, Something Is Very Wrong, It Doesn't Make Any Sense. What's Really Going On?

 
Anonymous Coward
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03/30/2020 01:07 PM
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Re: The Production Of Ventilators And Using Auto Production Plants, Something Is Very Wrong, It Doesn't Make Any Sense. What's Really Going On?
...


dude, the whole World is in a frenzy because we are all dependant on China's industry and you act like I said the stupidest thing ever.

Are you having problems understanding written words?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 78523095


First off, the West is dependent on Chinese industry because a large portion of our government wanted to be dependent on the regime for other reasons, not because we're too dumb to figure out wtf is going on.

Most importantly, for you to say that the deaths of possibly 100's of thousands of Americans is a good thing for any reason IS the most ignorant statement I've heard in a very long time, so yeah.
 Quoting: SiniXster the Dread


LOL, but you are too dumb to figure it out, Obama was even making fun of you for falling for it. That was some funny shit, how all of America believed that industry just moves and nobody can do anything about it.


And apparently you are not really intelligent enough to be having this conversation with, too emotional.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 78523095


Then STFU and exit my fucking thread asshat.
 Quoting: SiniXster the Dread


Sure, no problem, lady.

Have fun patting yourself on the back for not understanding written words.
Anonymous Coward
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03/30/2020 01:08 PM
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Re: The Production Of Ventilators And Using Auto Production Plants, Something Is Very Wrong, It Doesn't Make Any Sense. What's Really Going On?
You do realize that a ventilator is literally the easiest machine to make?

The only "difficulty" is the software and firmware to operate it, but even that can be nowdays completed with a normal smart phone.

You won't need these ventilators for long term use, you just need them currently for the spike. (even though, once you are plugged onto one, your chances of recovery are very slim)
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 78523095


I'm not talking at all about how easy they are to make, I'm specifically talking about the process to re-tool an automobile manufacturing plant to make them.
 Quoting: SiniXster the Dread


they don't understand because they've never been part of that.

I totally agree with you, there's no way any meaningful
number of ventilators is delivered in time.

But this is feel-good politics. This isn't about achieving anything, it's about convincing people that something is achieved.

So they'll roll out some quick prototype, small number of hand-tweaked systems to say it worked.

.
Renaissance Woman

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03/30/2020 01:08 PM
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Re: The Production Of Ventilators And Using Auto Production Plants, Something Is Very Wrong, It Doesn't Make Any Sense. What's Really Going On?
Fascinating thread, OP. Thanks for taking the time.

hf
"For with thee is the fountain of life: in thy light shall we see light."
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 75668073
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03/30/2020 01:10 PM
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Re: The Production Of Ventilators And Using Auto Production Plants, Something Is Very Wrong, It Doesn't Make Any Sense. What's Really Going On?
I have A LOT of experience in the medical field, 20+yrs Med Tech Oncology, as well as plant re-tooling and machinery moving. After my medical career I became a Machinery Rigger, basically I was contracted by factories, specifically Ford Motor Co, to go into the plants to dismantle, move and reassemble robotics, machinery and production lines that were either sold, discontinued or were being moved to other plants. I ran a full crew as well as being the Operations Manager for the company. I have tons of experience in logistics concerning efforts like this, and I'm telling you with the utmost confidence that there's no possible way these plants will EVER be re-tooled in time to even make a dent in the country's ventilator needs any time soon.

It takes numerous months to break down these lines and machines, and prep them for movement and storage. The logistics alone are a nightmare let alone the process of disassembly, loading and offloading. After all that is done and the space is made within the plants, the entire ventilation system for each plant would also have to be torn out and completely rebuilt to suit the safety and sanitary guidelines of medical equipment manufacturing, as well as clean rooms being built within the plants etc etc. During all of this, other plants will have to be re-tooled and/or enlarged to build the machines needed to build the product itself, and then you have the logistics of delivery, off-loading and assembly of new production lines, etc etc etc. Then inspections take place, and they NEVER pass anything without weeks to months more work to fix mistakes cited by inspectors and safety officials. You see where I'm headed with this?

On top of all that, there aren't even close to the number of rigging companies with experienced riggers needed to pull this off, nowhere near enough. Granted, you could bring in a lot of the laid-off skilled tradesmen, but remember they're all union, and the rigging companies aren't, so you also have union contracts to deal with. This is a truly MASSIVE UNDERTAKING on many, many levels.

Something truly doesn't makes sense, why are they not concentrating on figuring out how to increase production at the plants that already make the parts, machines themselves and the supplies necessary to run them.

My only theory is that they're not building ventilators, but if not, what are they producing, and why?
 Quoting: SiniXster the Dread


If you need a fucking ventilator just take the virus course your genes was defective anyway!
 Quoting: Q33


Totally off-topic, nonsensical and therefore no comment, ma'an.
Gabriel~

User ID: 78537549
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03/30/2020 01:10 PM
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Re: The Production Of Ventilators And Using Auto Production Plants, Something Is Very Wrong, It Doesn't Make Any Sense. What's Really Going On?
How exactly is a ventilator ‘hard to make’?

All you need is a simple electronically-switched DC motor, which are widely available, and some good software and electronics/sensors to regulate its action. Pump goes up and down at a controlled rate, boom, ventilator!

Could probably be done for just a few hundred bucks a pop if a smartphone was used to control it. Or even a raspberry Pi. A college student could make one. You wouldn’t even really need to make your own parts, besides some 3D printing.

Last Edited by Gabriel~ on 03/30/2020 01:14 PM
I LOVE GOD AND CHRIST! <3

We’re all in the same game; just different levels
Dealing with the same hell; just different devils
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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03/30/2020 01:13 PM
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Re: The Production Of Ventilators And Using Auto Production Plants, Something Is Very Wrong, It Doesn't Make Any Sense. What's Really Going On?
You do realize that a ventilator is literally the easiest machine to make?

The only "difficulty" is the software and firmware to operate it, but even that can be nowdays completed with a normal smart phone.

You won't need these ventilators for long term use, you just need them currently for the spike. (even though, once you are plugged onto one, your chances of recovery are very slim)
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 78523095


I'm not talking at all about how easy they are to make, I'm specifically talking about the process to re-tool an automobile manufacturing plant to make them.
 Quoting: SiniXster the Dread


they don't understand because they've never been part of that.

I totally agree with you, there's no way any meaningful
number of ventilators is delivered in time.

But this is feel-good politics. This isn't about achieving anything, it's about convincing people that something is achieved.

So they'll roll out some quick prototype, small number of hand-tweaked systems to say it worked.

.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 78346412


That should scare people, but it won't because yeah, they just don't understand and are too willing to just believe what they're being fed.
albuterol

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03/30/2020 01:13 PM
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Re: The Production Of Ventilators And Using Auto Production Plants, Something Is Very Wrong, It Doesn't Make Any Sense. What's Really Going On?
I have run ventilators for 35 years in a level 1 trauma hospital. What I wonder is where they expect to get enough Respiratory Therapists to run 1000s of new vents? You can't just pull people off the street and have them operate a vent. it takes at least 2 years of training in Respiratory to know what you are doing. Ventilators are not cars, they are a sophisticated piece of medical equipment. Most hospitals are short staffed in the best of times, yet I do not hear anyone address this question. Most nurses do not understand how to operate a vent. That's what Respiratory therapists do.

#0 year therapist here and this is correct!
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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03/30/2020 01:14 PM
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Re: The Production Of Ventilators And Using Auto Production Plants, Something Is Very Wrong, It Doesn't Make Any Sense. What's Really Going On?
Fascinating thread, OP. Thanks for taking the time.

hf
 Quoting: Renaissance Woman


You're welcome.

cheers
Anonymous Coward
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03/30/2020 01:14 PM
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Re: The Production Of Ventilators And Using Auto Production Plants, Something Is Very Wrong, It Doesn't Make Any Sense. What's Really Going On?
How exactly is a ventilator ‘hard to make’?

All you need is a simple electronically-switched DC motor, which are widely available, and some good software and electronics/sensors to regulate its action. Pump goes up and down at a controlled rate, boom, ventilator!

Could probably be done for just a few hundred bucks a pop if a smartphone was used to control it.
 Quoting: Gabriel~


I wouldn't want a smartphone controlling the ventilator keeping me alive... anyways you would still need something to be the digital to analog converter for your control signals.

A Raspberry Pi, Arduino, or programmable logic controller would all do the job... and not kill you when they decided to update the operating system.
albuterol

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03/30/2020 01:14 PM
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Re: The Production Of Ventilators And Using Auto Production Plants, Something Is Very Wrong, It Doesn't Make Any Sense. What's Really Going On?
30 years
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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03/30/2020 01:16 PM
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Re: The Production Of Ventilators And Using Auto Production Plants, Something Is Very Wrong, It Doesn't Make Any Sense. What's Really Going On?
How exactly is a ventilator ‘hard to make’?

All you need is a simple electronically-switched DC motor, which are widely available, and some good software and electronics/sensors to regulate its action. Pump goes up and down at a controlled rate, boom, ventilator!

Could probably be done for just a few hundred bucks a pop if a smartphone was used to control it. Or even a raspberry Pi. A college student could make one.
 Quoting: Gabriel~


Maybe I need to update my original post, lol. Yes, vents are not that difficult to make from a manufacturing standpoint, that's not the point of the thread.
Gabriel~

User ID: 78537549
Canada
03/30/2020 01:17 PM
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Re: The Production Of Ventilators And Using Auto Production Plants, Something Is Very Wrong, It Doesn't Make Any Sense. What's Really Going On?
How exactly is a ventilator ‘hard to make’?

All you need is a simple electronically-switched DC motor, which are widely available, and some good software and electronics/sensors to regulate its action. Pump goes up and down at a controlled rate, boom, ventilator!

Could probably be done for just a few hundred bucks a pop if a smartphone was used to control it. Or even a raspberry Pi. A college student could make one.
 Quoting: Gabriel~


Maybe I need to update my original post, lol. Yes, vents are not that difficult to make from a manufacturing standpoint, that's not the point of the thread.
 Quoting: SiniXster the Dread

Yes I know, but surely SOMEONE can figure out a way to cobble together readily-available components easily without expensive and massive machinery? Like order all the parts and just assemble them by hand or something.

A cheaply-made and possibly untested ventilator is obviously not ideal, but it’s probably better than drowning in your own fluids. Or maybe it will just prolong the agony. Who knows.

Last Edited by Gabriel~ on 03/30/2020 01:18 PM
I LOVE GOD AND CHRIST! <3

We’re all in the same game; just different levels
Dealing with the same hell; just different devils
Anonymous Coward
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03/30/2020 01:17 PM
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Re: The Production Of Ventilators And Using Auto Production Plants, Something Is Very Wrong, It Doesn't Make Any Sense. What's Really Going On?
How exactly is a ventilator ‘hard to make’?

All you need is a simple electronically-switched DC motor, which are widely available, and some good software and electronics/sensors to regulate its action. Pump goes up and down at a controlled rate, boom, ventilator!

Could probably be done for just a few hundred bucks a pop if a smartphone was used to control it. Or even a raspberry Pi. A college student could make one. You wouldn’t even really need to make your own parts, besides some 3D printing.
 Quoting: Gabriel~



where are you going to get DC motors?

what software? who will write it? is there a team somewhere?

sensors? What sensors, EXACTLY? What vendor are you ordering from? How big is the order? When will it be delivered? Can the vendor handle that large of an order?

What kind of pump? NAME the vendor. SHOW me the contract specifics.

You guys are just completely clueless because it LOOKS effortless to an outsider. Putting a smartphone together takes YEARS. All that stuff is prototyped, sourced and contracted over a period of YEARS.

.
Gabriel~

User ID: 78537549
Canada
03/30/2020 01:18 PM
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Re: The Production Of Ventilators And Using Auto Production Plants, Something Is Very Wrong, It Doesn't Make Any Sense. What's Really Going On?
How exactly is a ventilator ‘hard to make’?

All you need is a simple electronically-switched DC motor, which are widely available, and some good software and electronics/sensors to regulate its action. Pump goes up and down at a controlled rate, boom, ventilator!

Could probably be done for just a few hundred bucks a pop if a smartphone was used to control it. Or even a raspberry Pi. A college student could make one. You wouldn’t even really need to make your own parts, besides some 3D printing.
 Quoting: Gabriel~



where are you going to get DC motors?

what software? who will write it? is there a team somewhere?

sensors? What sensors, EXACTLY? What vendor are you ordering from? How big is the order? When will it be delivered? Can the vendor handle that large of an order?

What kind of pump? NAME the vendor. SHOW me the contract specifics.

You guys are just completely clueless because it LOOKS effortless to an outsider. Putting a smartphone together takes YEARS. All that stuff is prototyped, sourced and contracted over a period of YEARS.

.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 78346412

Have you ever been into DIY? There’s tons of online sources for cheap electronic components. Mostly China based, but surely their economy hasn’t shut down entirely.

A smartphone is FAR more complicated than a ventilator. All you need to do is move air in a controlled manner. Not hard to do.

Last Edited by Gabriel~ on 03/30/2020 01:21 PM
I LOVE GOD AND CHRIST! <3

We’re all in the same game; just different levels
Dealing with the same hell; just different devils
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 75668073
United States
03/30/2020 01:20 PM
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Re: The Production Of Ventilators And Using Auto Production Plants, Something Is Very Wrong, It Doesn't Make Any Sense. What's Really Going On?
How exactly is a ventilator ‘hard to make’?

All you need is a simple electronically-switched DC motor, which are widely available, and some good software and electronics/sensors to regulate its action. Pump goes up and down at a controlled rate, boom, ventilator!

Could probably be done for just a few hundred bucks a pop if a smartphone was used to control it. Or even a raspberry Pi. A college student could make one.
 Quoting: Gabriel~


Maybe I need to update my original post, lol. Yes, vents are not that difficult to make from a manufacturing standpoint, that's not the point of the thread.
 Quoting: SiniXster the Dread

Yes I know, but surely SOMEONE can figure out a way to cobble together readily-available components easily without expensive and massive machinery? Like order all the parts and just assemble them by hand or something.
 Quoting: Gabriel~


Or, OOORRRR, how about finding ways to increase production at established plants and utilizing other medical manufacturing facilities that are already OSHA regulated clean plants as opposed to filthy auto manufacturing plants.

See my point?
albuterol

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03/30/2020 01:21 PM
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Re: The Production Of Ventilators And Using Auto Production Plants, Something Is Very Wrong, It Doesn't Make Any Sense. What's Really Going On?
Some of you are clueless, have ever worked with a vent? Yoe have no idea what you are talking about!
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 78346412
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03/30/2020 01:22 PM
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Re: The Production Of Ventilators And Using Auto Production Plants, Something Is Very Wrong, It Doesn't Make Any Sense. What's Really Going On?
How exactly is a ventilator ‘hard to make’?

All you need is a simple electronically-switched DC motor, which are widely available, and some good software and electronics/sensors to regulate its action. Pump goes up and down at a controlled rate, boom, ventilator!

Could probably be done for just a few hundred bucks a pop if a smartphone was used to control it. Or even a raspberry Pi. A college student could make one. You wouldn’t even really need to make your own parts, besides some 3D printing.
 Quoting: Gabriel~



where are you going to get DC motors?

what software? who will write it? is there a team somewhere?

sensors? What sensors, EXACTLY? What vendor are you ordering from? How big is the order? When will it be delivered? Can the vendor handle that large of an order?

What kind of pump? NAME the vendor. SHOW me the contract specifics.

You guys are just completely clueless because it LOOKS effortless to an outsider. Putting a smartphone together takes YEARS. All that stuff is prototyped, sourced and contracted over a period of YEARS.

.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 78346412

Have you ever been into DIY? There’s tons of online sources for cheap electronic components.

A smartphone is FAR more complicated than a ventilator. All you need to do is move air in a controlled manner. Not hard to do.
 Quoting: Gabriel~



you're ignorant of what is involved.

yes, I have hand-tweaked electronics.

so go ahead and do it and become a millionaire.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 13358554
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03/30/2020 01:28 PM
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Re: The Production Of Ventilators And Using Auto Production Plants, Something Is Very Wrong, It Doesn't Make Any Sense. What's Really Going On?
I have A LOT of experience in the medical field, 20+yrs Med Tech Oncology, as well as plant re-tooling and machinery moving. After my medical career I became a Machinery Rigger, basically I was contracted by factories, specifically Ford Motor Co, to go into the plants to dismantle, move and reassemble robotics, machinery and production lines that were either sold, discontinued or were being moved to other plants. I ran a full crew as well as being the Operations Manager for the company. I have tons of experience in logistics concerning efforts like this, and I'm telling you with the utmost confidence that there's no possible way these plants will EVER be re-tooled in time to even make a dent in the country's ventilator needs any time soon.

It takes numerous months to break down these lines and machines, and prep them for movement and storage. The logistics alone are a nightmare let alone the process of disassembly, loading and offloading. After all that is done and the space is made within the plants, the entire ventilation system for each plant would also have to be torn out and completely rebuilt to suit the safety and sanitary guidelines of medical equipment manufacturing, as well as clean rooms being built within the plants etc etc. During all of this, other plants will have to be re-tooled and/or enlarged to build the machines needed to build the product itself, and then you have the logistics of delivery, off-loading and assembly of new production lines, etc etc etc. Then inspections take place, and they NEVER pass anything without weeks to months more work to fix mistakes cited by inspectors and safety officials. You see where I'm headed with this?

On top of all that, there aren't even close to the number of rigging companies with experienced riggers needed to pull this off, nowhere near enough. Granted, you could bring in a lot of the laid-off skilled tradesmen, but remember they're all union, and the rigging companies aren't, so you also have union contracts to deal with. This is a truly MASSIVE UNDERTAKING on many, many levels.

Something truly doesn't makes sense, why are they not concentrating on figuring out how to increase production at the plants that already make the parts, machines themselves and the supplies necessary to run them.

My only theory is that they're not building ventilators, but if not, what are they producing, and why?
 Quoting: SiniXster the Dread

masks and ventilators are not for now, but prep for the meteoric dust that will be in the air...sooon.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75449616


:shoon:
 Quoting: SiniXster the Dread


Brother,

I'm the poster from the other thread who has a best friend who is a Millwright.

I just called my Millwright friend (now he's kind of pissed at me because him and his girlfriend got drunk last night and they're both trying to sleep it off) anyway...

Check this out...as I mentioned before, my friend is kind of a sheep. That said, he told me that he has a friend who is also a Millwright. His Millwright friend was called in to do specialized welding at a GM plant...it required a special kind of welding that those in house welders weren't skilled enough to do. He told me that he'll give me more details later as it would take too long to explain the details to a non welder.

Before he hung up on me, he asked me what I knew about Space Force! wtflol
Anonymous Coward
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03/30/2020 01:37 PM
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Re: The Production Of Ventilators And Using Auto Production Plants, Something Is Very Wrong, It Doesn't Make Any Sense. What's Really Going On?
I have run ventilators for 35 years in a level 1 trauma hospital. What I wonder is where they expect to get enough Respiratory Therapists to run 1000s of new vents? You can't just pull people off the street and have them operate a vent. it takes at least 2 years of training in Respiratory to know what you are doing. Ventilators are not cars, they are a sophisticated piece of medical equipment. Most hospitals are short staffed in the best of times, yet I do not hear anyone address this question. Most nurses do not understand how to operate a vent. That's what Respiratory therapists do.
 Quoting: mandit


Great post! I was thinking the same thing! hf
Anonymous Coward
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03/30/2020 01:57 PM
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Re: The Production Of Ventilators And Using Auto Production Plants, Something Is Very Wrong, It Doesn't Make Any Sense. What's Really Going On?
"First off, the West is dependent on Chinese industry because a large portion of our government wanted to be dependent on the regime for other reasons, not because we're too dumb to figure out wtf is going on.

Most importantly, for you to say that the deaths of possibly 100's of thousands of Americans is a good thing for any reason IS the most ignorant statement I've heard in a very long time, so yeah."



Some very basic reasons:

China has more gold that anybody on Earth and US needed them to keep buying our worthless T bills ad infinitum. In order to make that happen, China needed to feel deeply invested in partnership with the US.


US manufacturing pollution was getting out of hand, so we offshored it to China. There is just no way on Earth to make the stuff we use without creating pollution. The next place we wreck with it will be Africa - rather China will wreck Africa with pollution to build crap for US.
Dr know. Md
User ID: 77617850
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03/30/2020 03:13 PM
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Re: The Production Of Ventilators And Using Auto Production Plants, Something Is Very Wrong, It Doesn't Make Any Sense. What's Really Going On?
Hayek negative pressure ventilator. Cheap easy. No need for intubation. Can keep patient at home. Made in Israel. Can b easily quickly mass produced. They don’t want a cure or answers This is all wrong. May god n Jesus save us and America.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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03/31/2020 10:22 AM
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Re: The Production Of Ventilators And Using Auto Production Plants, Something Is Very Wrong, It Doesn't Make Any Sense. What's Really Going On?
I have A LOT of experience in the medical field, 20+yrs Med Tech Oncology, as well as plant re-tooling and machinery moving. After my medical career I became a Machinery Rigger, basically I was contracted by factories, specifically Ford Motor Co, to go into the plants to dismantle, move and reassemble robotics, machinery and production lines that were either sold, discontinued or were being moved to other plants. I ran a full crew as well as being the Operations Manager for the company. I have tons of experience in logistics concerning efforts like this, and I'm telling you with the utmost confidence that there's no possible way these plants will EVER be re-tooled in time to even make a dent in the country's ventilator needs any time soon.

It takes numerous months to break down these lines and machines, and prep them for movement and storage. The logistics alone are a nightmare let alone the process of disassembly, loading and offloading. After all that is done and the space is made within the plants, the entire ventilation system for each plant would also have to be torn out and completely rebuilt to suit the safety and sanitary guidelines of medical equipment manufacturing, as well as clean rooms being built within the plants etc etc. During all of this, other plants will have to be re-tooled and/or enlarged to build the machines needed to build the product itself, and then you have the logistics of delivery, off-loading and assembly of new production lines, etc etc etc. Then inspections take place, and they NEVER pass anything without weeks to months more work to fix mistakes cited by inspectors and safety officials. You see where I'm headed with this?

On top of all that, there aren't even close to the number of rigging companies with experienced riggers needed to pull this off, nowhere near enough. Granted, you could bring in a lot of the laid-off skilled tradesmen, but remember they're all union, and the rigging companies aren't, so you also have union contracts to deal with. This is a truly MASSIVE UNDERTAKING on many, many levels.

Something truly doesn't makes sense, why are they not concentrating on figuring out how to increase production at the plants that already make the parts, machines themselves and the supplies necessary to run them.

My only theory is that they're not building ventilators, but if not, what are they producing, and why?
 Quoting: SiniXster the Dread

masks and ventilators are not for now, but prep for the meteoric dust that will be in the air...sooon.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75449616


:shoon:
 Quoting: SiniXster the Dread


Brother,

I'm the poster from the other thread who has a best friend who is a Millwright.

I just called my Millwright friend (now he's kind of pissed at me because him and his girlfriend got drunk last night and they're both trying to sleep it off) anyway...

Check this out...as I mentioned before, my friend is kind of a sheep. That said, he told me that he has a friend who is also a Millwright. His Millwright friend was called in to do specialized welding at a GM plant...it required a special kind of welding that those in house welders weren't skilled enough to do. He told me that he'll give me more details later as it would take too long to explain the details to a non welder.

Before he hung up on me, he asked me what I knew about Space Force! wtflol
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 13358554


No specialized welding needed for a ventilator obviously, please let me know if you hear anything else from him.





GLP