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Please stop propagating the myth that shotguns don't need to be aimed

 
Close_with&destroy
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User ID: 74455680
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02/18/2020 07:55 PM
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Please stop propagating the myth that shotguns don't need to be aimed
While reading through the many posts, I quite often see advice given to novice shooters or people that are looking for a home defense weapon that "they should get a shotgun because you don't even have to aim it, just point it in the general direction and blast 'em!"
This couldn't be further from the truth. A 12 ga shotgun shooting a 00 buck load out of a barrel with an unmodified choke spreads about 1" per yard/meter. So at 7 yards, you have a 7" pattern, at 15 yards you have a 15" pattern, etc.
A 00 buck shotshell has nine (9) .32 cal pellets. For the maximum effect, one needs to hit the intended target with all nine pellets. If one were to aim in the general direction, you may or may not hit them with any or all of the pellets.
To those that argue "well, at least I hit them with a few pellets", where did the other pellets go? Into little Billy or Susies room and into little Billy or Susie? Not only that, but if you only hit the target with a few of the pellets, it is most likely in a non vital area, ie winging them, which will not be effective in stopping them or preventing them from returning fire.
Aside from that, I see very little advice given to have a light source either mounted to the weapon or advice given to train with the weapon while using a flashlight.
Most deadly force encounters with looters, home invaders, robbers will be in low light or black out conditions. Blasting at every little shadow that goes bump in the night is a good way to kill or maim someone you love or other innocent parties.

If you are getting a firearm or already have one, seek out quality training and advice, then practice, practice, practice. Dry fire is easily one of the most effective training and practice methods out there and the least utilized.

Get your preps in order, take care of yourself and each other, may we all dodge the bullet that is Covid-19 and its aftermath. If not, at least we have prepared to weather the storm as best we can.

Last Edited by Close_with&destroy on 02/18/2020 07:57 PM
Close_with&destroy  (OP)

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02/18/2020 07:58 PM
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Re: Please stop propagating the myth that shotguns don't need to be aimed
I agree!

Try hitting moving bird with one...

It's not as easy as you might think.
 Quoting: ^TrInItY^
Anonymous Coward
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02/18/2020 08:04 PM
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Re: Please stop propagating the myth that shotguns don't need to be aimed
Sound advice for us folk who barely know anything about guns!

Shotguns are generally a sort of "easy-mode" shooting in games, so we get that impression, right!
Close_with&destroy  (OP)

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02/18/2020 08:07 PM
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Re: Please stop propagating the myth that shotguns don't need to be aimed
To clarify, my op was not directed at the new shooter. It is directed at the alleged experienced shooter that takes it upon themselves to dole out "expert advice" to a would be first time gun purchaser and/or novice shooter.

Sound advice for us folk who barely know anything about guns!

Shotguns are generally a sort of "easy-mode" shooting in games, so we get that impression, right!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 78489110
Anonymous Coward
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02/18/2020 08:20 PM
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Re: Please stop propagating the myth that shotguns don't need to be aimed
While you make a fair point, it is easier to get at least some of the target with a shot pattern than with a single projectile weapon.

But between the racking and the boom you should hear some retreating footsteps. Nobody knows if you shoot clay pigeons with slugs when they are in your house at 3am.

So, it is, kinda, easier.
Anonymous Coward
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02/18/2020 08:21 PM
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Re: Please stop propagating the myth that shotguns don't need to be aimed
Aimed?

It works both ways.
Close_with&destroy  (OP)

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02/18/2020 08:41 PM
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Re: Please stop propagating the myth that shotguns don't need to be aimed
While you make a fair point, it is easier to get at least some of the target with a shot pattern than with a single projectile weapon.

But between the racking and the boom you should hear some retreating footsteps. Nobody knows if you shoot clay pigeons with slugs when they are in your house at 3am.

So, it is, kinda, easier.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77497363


Read my third paragraph in regards to hitting them with "some" of the pellets.
Thinking like this perpetuates the myth of a scatter gun that will cover an entire living room with buckshot, immediately dispatching every bad guy in the room.
You are also confusing a would be burglar with a desperate looter or home invader, who will most likely be more dedicated to the attack and will also most likely have accomplices.
Anonymous Coward
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02/18/2020 08:47 PM
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Re: Please stop propagating the myth that shotguns don't need to be aimed
While you make a fair point, it is easier to get at least some of the target with a shot pattern than with a single projectile weapon.

But between the racking and the boom you should hear some retreating footsteps. Nobody knows if you shoot clay pigeons with slugs when they are in your house at 3am.

So, it is, kinda, easier.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77497363


Read my third paragraph in regards to hitting them with "some" of the pellets.
Thinking like this perpetuates the myth of a scatter gun that will cover an entire living room with buckshot, immediately dispatching every bad guy in the room.
You are also confusing a would be burglar with a desperate looter or home invader, who will most likely be more dedicated to the attack and will also most likely have accomplices.
 Quoting: Close_with&destroy


And where is that 40 round going when the new shooter misses? Way farther than the 32 pellet moving much slower. Then they panic unload and you have 10 problems. Highvelocity penetrating ones.

You got some high ideals but think a little more.
Anonymous Coward
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02/18/2020 08:48 PM
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Re: Please stop propagating the myth that shotguns don't need to be aimed
While you make a fair point, it is easier to get at least some of the target with a shot pattern than with a single projectile weapon.

But between the racking and the boom you should hear some retreating footsteps. Nobody knows if you shoot clay pigeons with slugs when they are in your house at 3am.

So, it is, kinda, easier.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77497363


Read my third paragraph in regards to hitting them with "some" of the pellets.
Thinking like this perpetuates the myth of a scatter gun that will cover an entire living room with buckshot, immediately dispatching every bad guy in the room.
You are also confusing a would be burglar with a desperate looter or home invader, who will most likely be more dedicated to the attack and will also most likely have accomplices.
 Quoting: Close_with&destroy


And where is that 40 round going when the new shooter misses? Way farther than the 32 pellet moving much slower. Then they panic unload and you have 10 problems. Highvelocity penetrating ones.

You got some high ideals but think a little more.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77497363


Then they reload.
Malu nli

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02/18/2020 08:50 PM
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Re: Please stop propagating the myth that shotguns don't need to be aimed
It is such a limited, clumsy weapon with a very close effective range and heavy. I grew up hunting small game with a shotgun walking all day carrying that fucker.

You are way better off with a handgun and an AR-15 if you have limited funds don’t even waste your money on a shotgun

I love going bonzo with a pump 12 gauge and OO buckshot , it’s fucking brutal, but has too many downsides
bhdz71

User ID: 72816403
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02/18/2020 08:51 PM
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Re: Please stop propagating the myth that shotguns don't need to be aimed
Slugs man, you ain’t doing it right unless your running slugs. Of course depending on your living situation and surroundings slugs could be a very bad choice also.

Edit to add:

Even buckshot OO, OOO, etc can be just as bad a choice in an apartment situation with neighbors.

Last Edited by bhdz71 on 02/18/2020 08:54 PM
Anonymous Coward
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02/18/2020 08:56 PM
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Re: Please stop propagating the myth that shotguns don't need to be aimed
Sporting clays are fun :)

Desert lake shooting club outside of Vegas was great,to bad they shut it down :(

So many sporting clay stations,and one of the few 1000 yard ranges in the USA open to the public.Why oh why did you have to close :(
Anonymous Coward
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02/18/2020 09:00 PM
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Re: Please stop propagating the myth that shotguns don't need to be aimed
Sporting clays are fun :)

Desert lake shooting club outside of Vegas was great,to bad they shut it down :(

So many sporting clay stations,and one of the few 1000 yard ranges in the USA open to the public.Why oh why did you have to close :(
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 78323780


Whoooo it is back open!!

[link to progunclub.com]

I thought it had closed for good...so google it just to be sure.

It is open again :)


Been there got the t-shirt rofl.
Anonymous Coward
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02/18/2020 09:02 PM
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Re: Please stop propagating the myth that shotguns don't need to be aimed
Sporting clays are fun :)

Desert lake shooting club outside of Vegas was great,to bad they shut it down :(

So many sporting clay stations,and one of the few 1000 yard ranges in the USA open to the public.Why oh why did you have to close :(
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 78323780


Whoooo it is back open!!

[link to progunclub.com]

I thought it had closed for good...so google it just to be sure.

It is open again :)


Been there got the t-shirt rofl.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 78323780


I mean come on what is not to love about 21 stations over a mile...with golf carts that have gun racks :)
And a VERY nice club house after :)
WaitTressSandwhich

User ID: 76356891
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02/18/2020 09:10 PM

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Re: Please stop propagating the myth that shotguns don't need to be aimed
You guys need to get 1 of these....NO aiming needed!




epiclol
From the author of Blade Runner:

“There will come a time when it isn't 'They're spying on me through my phone' anymore. Eventually, it will be 'My phone is spying on me'.”

Philip K. Dick
WaitTressSandwhich

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02/18/2020 09:10 PM

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Re: Please stop propagating the myth that shotguns don't need to be aimed
You guys need to get 1 of these....NO aiming needed!




epiclol
From the author of Blade Runner:

“There will come a time when it isn't 'They're spying on me through my phone' anymore. Eventually, it will be 'My phone is spying on me'.”

Philip K. Dick
Anonymous Coward
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02/18/2020 09:23 PM
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Re: Please stop propagating the myth that shotguns don't need to be aimed
While you make a fair point, it is easier to get at least some of the target with a shot pattern than with a single projectile weapon.

But between the racking and the boom you should hear some retreating footsteps. Nobody knows if you shoot clay pigeons with slugs when they are in your house at 3am.

So, it is, kinda, easier.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77497363


Read my third paragraph in regards to hitting them with "some" of the pellets.

Thinking like this perpetuates the myth of a scatter gun that will cover an entire living room with buckshot, immediately dispatching every bad guy in the room.

 Quoting: Close_with&destroy


that's called a hand grenade
not a shotgun.

.
SilverCyprus

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02/18/2020 09:27 PM

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Re: Please stop propagating the myth that shotguns don't need to be aimed
Use a rifled barrel if you want a large spread
Close_with&destroy  (OP)

User ID: 74455680
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02/18/2020 10:18 PM
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Re: Please stop propagating the myth that shotguns don't need to be aimed
While you make a fair point, it is easier to get at least some of the target with a shot pattern than with a single projectile weapon.

But between the racking and the boom you should hear some retreating footsteps. Nobody knows if you shoot clay pigeons with slugs when they are in your house at 3am.

So, it is, kinda, easier.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77497363


Read my third paragraph in regards to hitting them with "some" of the pellets.
Thinking like this perpetuates the myth of a scatter gun that will cover an entire living room with buckshot, immediately dispatching every bad guy in the room.
You are also confusing a would be burglar with a desperate looter or home invader, who will most likely be more dedicated to the attack and will also most likely have accomplices.
 Quoting: Close_with&destroy


And where is that 40 round going when the new shooter misses? Way farther than the 32 pellet moving much slower. Then they panic unload and you have 10 problems. Highvelocity penetrating ones.

You got some high ideals but think a little more.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77497363


You are attempting to misdirect. My OP said to stop steering people towards shotguns "because you don't even have to aim, just point in the general direction". If you wish to steer someone to purchase a shotgun, at least take the time to adequately educate them on the pro's and con's of using one. Educate them about the shot pattern, how much of spread it will or wont have at a given distance, demonstrate it on the range. Just dont tell someone to buy one because its the be all to end all of home defense and one pull of the trigger will blow away all the bad guys.

I have absolutely nothing against shotguns, I love my 870, but I know its strengths and weaknesses.

I hope this clears things up for you.
bhdz71

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02/18/2020 10:35 PM
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Re: Please stop propagating the myth that shotguns don't need to be aimed





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