Godlike Productions - Discussion Forum
Users Online Now: 2,218 (Who's On?)Visitors Today: 419,096
Pageviews Today: 669,833Threads Today: 230Posts Today: 3,413
08:18 AM


Rate this Thread

Absolute BS Crap Reasonable Nice Amazing
 

Christians do not go to heaven when they die.

 
Photina  (OP)

User ID: 76289029
Canada
07/31/2018 11:31 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Christians do not go to heaven when they die.
No Paul verses, very telling.
 Quoting: javierruizleon


1 Corinthians 15:51-53
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

Paul teaches exactly what the Scriptures teach.

Man sleeps in the grave until the last day, at the last trump, the Second Coming.

Only then will the elect be saved.

There is no afterlife.
 Quoting: Photina


What is your religious affiliation? You definitely aren't mainstream Christian.
 Quoting: Pilgrim001


Mainstream Christians are pagan/catholics in disguise.

Either they worship the Catholic trinity god, believe in an afterlife/hell, worship on the venerable day of the sun, etc.

My body is a temple of the Holy Spirit.
Many years you bore with them and warned them by your Spirit through your prophets. Yet they would not give ear. Therefore you gave them into the hand of the peoples of the lands. You gave your good Spirit to instruct them and did not withhold your manna from their mouth and gave them water for their thirst. Nevertheless, they were disobedient and rebelled against you and cast your law behind their back and killed your prophets, who had warned them in order to turn them back to you, and they committed great blasphemies.
Nehemiah 9:30,20,26, ESV
Powderfinger

User ID: 69113046
United States
07/31/2018 11:50 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Christians do not go to heaven when they die.
Luke 23:39-43 New International Version (NIV)
39 One of the criminals who hung there hurled insults at him: “Aren’t you the Messiah? Save yourself and us!”

40 But the other criminal rebuked him. “Don’t you fear God,” he said, “since you are under the same sentence? 41 We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong.”

42 Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.[a]”

43 Jesus answered him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.”
 Quoting: Ida Man


Well, Jesus must have been lying to the thief because Jesus did not ascend to Heaven until many weeks later.

Or that translation is wrong.

Choose one.
 Quoting: Photina


Paradise doe not = Heaven fyi
 Quoting: I'm The Dude


Oh! So there's paradise AND heaven now?
 Quoting: Photina


If paradise is heaven why’d they call it paradise?
The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who has been born of the Spirit.
TheLordsServant

User ID: 76805018
United States
08/01/2018 12:48 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Christians do not go to heaven when they die.
...


Well, Jesus must have been lying to the thief because Jesus did not ascend to Heaven until many weeks later.

Or that translation is wrong.

Choose one.
 Quoting: Photina


Paradise doe not = Heaven fyi
 Quoting: I'm The Dude


Oh! So there's paradise AND heaven now?
 Quoting: Photina


If paradise is heaven why’d they call it paradise?
 Quoting: Powderfinger


I ran across this earlier this morning...

This page is mainly about the Abraham / Lazarus story but also touches on paradise / heaven.

[link to www.bereanbiblesociety.org (secure)]
I am a humble Servant of the one True Living God.
74854628

User ID: 74854628
United States
08/01/2018 01:01 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Christians do not go to heaven when they die.
They "sleep" in the grave until the resurrection (2nd Coming).

Most Christians have been deceived, and believe in the natural immortality of the human soul, a false, pagan doctrine that comes from the Roman Catholic Church, and not the Bible.

John 11:11-14
11 After he had said this, he went on to tell them, “Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep; but I am going there to wake him up.”
12 His disciples replied, “Lord, if he sleeps, he will get better.” 13 Jesus had been speaking of his death, but his disciples thought he meant natural sleep.
14 So then he told them plainly, “Lazarus is dead,"

John 11:24
Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
 Quoting: Photina


[link to boredomtherapy.com]
74854628
Photina  (OP)

User ID: 75562917
Canada
08/01/2018 01:09 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Christians do not go to heaven when they die.
...


Paradise doe not = Heaven fyi
 Quoting: I'm The Dude


Oh! So there's paradise AND heaven now?
 Quoting: Photina


If paradise is heaven why’d they call it paradise?
 Quoting: Powderfinger


I ran across this earlier this morning...

This page is mainly about the Abraham / Lazarus story but also touches on paradise / heaven.

[link to www.bereanbiblesociety.org (secure)]
 Quoting: TheLordsServant


Why are you ignoring what the entire Bible teaches about the state of the dead, even Jesus' OWN words which you hold in such high regard; instead focusing on a PARABLE which only appears in Luke? Hypocrite much?

Jesus HIMSELF said that dead was "a sleep".
Many years you bore with them and warned them by your Spirit through your prophets. Yet they would not give ear. Therefore you gave them into the hand of the peoples of the lands. You gave your good Spirit to instruct them and did not withhold your manna from their mouth and gave them water for their thirst. Nevertheless, they were disobedient and rebelled against you and cast your law behind their back and killed your prophets, who had warned them in order to turn them back to you, and they committed great blasphemies.
Nehemiah 9:30,20,26, ESV
TheLordsServant

User ID: 76805018
United States
08/01/2018 01:55 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Christians do not go to heaven when they die.
...


Oh! So there's paradise AND heaven now?
 Quoting: Photina


If paradise is heaven why’d they call it paradise?
 Quoting: Powderfinger


I ran across this earlier this morning...

This page is mainly about the Abraham / Lazarus story but also touches on paradise / heaven.

[link to www.bereanbiblesociety.org (secure)]
 Quoting: TheLordsServant


Why are you ignoring what the entire Bible teaches about the state of the dead, even Jesus' OWN words which you hold in such high regard; instead focusing on a PARABLE which only appears in Luke? Hypocrite much?

Jesus HIMSELF said that dead was "a sleep".
 Quoting: Photina


So...if we don't all believe EXACTLY as you do...we're all hypocrites?

verysad

Are YOU the ONLY person on the planet with the Holy Spirit?

Are you the only person who doesn't have things to learn?

I would be that you didn't even read the page I linked.

This is from that...

Jesus Christ’s Direct Teaching that Departed Saints are Alive (see Matt. 22:23-32): Using a hypothetical situation, the Sadducees challenged the Lord Jesus concerning the resurrection of the dead, which was something that they did not believe in. The Lord turned the tables on them, though, by exposing their ignorance about the subject. First He explained that in the resurrection, marriage would not be a consideration. He then went on to confront them on an important issue concerning the saints who have experienced physical death.

He knew that the Sadducees not only denied a literal resurrection of the dead, but also even denied the continued existence of the person after death. To reveal their error, the Lord quoted God’s words to Moses at the burning bush, “I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob” (Ex. 3:6).

Although Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob had died hundreds of years before the time of Moses, God used the present tense “I am” rather than the past tense “I was” when identifying Himself to Moses as their God. This shows that they were existing in a conscious state at that time. The Lord Jesus’ remark, in the present tense, that “God is not the God of the dead, but of the living” (Matt. 22:32) reveals that they were still alive as He spoke, some 1500 years later. Being alive indicates a continued conscious existence. If this was true before the Cross, it is undoubtedly true of believers on this side of the cross.


Last Edited by Servant-of-the-LORD on 08/01/2018 01:56 PM
I am a humble Servant of the one True Living God.
TheLordsServant

User ID: 76805018
United States
08/01/2018 02:06 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Christians do not go to heaven when they die.
Consider this...

In Revelation it's stated that Jesus is the "firstborn of the dead"...which obviously means the first one to be resurrected.

There's no other better meaning that fits all other scripture.

That said, then how is it that Elijah brought back the woman's son? How is it that Jesus brought back Lazarus and others?

How is it that Moses and Elijah appeared at the Transfiguration?
I am a humble Servant of the one True Living God.
Photina  (OP)

User ID: 49967426
Canada
08/01/2018 02:25 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Christians do not go to heaven when they die.
1 Tim 6:16
Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting.

Only God is immortal.

The dead "know nothing".

Why is it so hard for you to accept that men aren't immortal?

Immortality is out of reach of man, outside of the gift of God offered through His Son?

Why would the wicked be given eternal life? That's not what John 3:16 says. (Jesus HIMSELF).

Since you always use this very argument, your self, that makes you a hypocrite.

You don't even know who the Holy Spirit is, why would you have it inside you?
Many years you bore with them and warned them by your Spirit through your prophets. Yet they would not give ear. Therefore you gave them into the hand of the peoples of the lands. You gave your good Spirit to instruct them and did not withhold your manna from their mouth and gave them water for their thirst. Nevertheless, they were disobedient and rebelled against you and cast your law behind their back and killed your prophets, who had warned them in order to turn them back to you, and they committed great blasphemies.
Nehemiah 9:30,20,26, ESV
TheLordsServant

User ID: 76805018
United States
08/01/2018 02:37 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Christians do not go to heaven when they die.
1 Tim 6:16
Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting.

Only God is immortal.

The dead "know nothing".

Why is it so hard for you to accept that men aren't immortal?

Immortality is out of reach of man, outside of the gift of God offered through His Son?

Why would the wicked be given eternal life? That's not what John 3:16 says. (Jesus HIMSELF).

Since you always use this very argument, your self, that makes you a hypocrite.

You don't even know who the Holy Spirit is, why would you have it inside you?
 Quoting: Photina


Eternal life isn't fufilled until the Final Judgement.

How about addressing the questions I posed above instead of just making a "blanket statement"?

Who are you to determine whether I or anyone else has the Holy Spirit?

verysad

What you think of me matters not. Only what God and His Son think of me is what matters.

Last Edited by Servant-of-the-LORD on 08/01/2018 02:38 PM
I am a humble Servant of the one True Living God.
Photina  (OP)

User ID: 75562917
Canada
08/01/2018 03:06 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Christians do not go to heaven when they die.
Eternal life isn't fufilled until the Final Judgement.
 Quoting: TheLordsServant


Wrong, the Final Judgement of the wicked (Great White Throne) takes place after the 1000 years after the resurrection of the righteous.

Those in Christ are given immortality/eternal life at the Second Coming, the first resurrection, not before, not after.

Men die, sleep in the grave, and are resurrected, either to eternal life, or to punishment.

The wicked don't "go anywhere" or "know anything" after they die, just like the righteous. There is no "limbo" or "paradise", or intermediary station in between death and resurrection. Dead people don't live or experience anything, (duh).

The wicked won't be given eternal life, whether it be in "hell" or anywhere else. They PERISH (john 3:16).

Who are you to determine whether I or anyone else has the Holy Spirit?
 Quoting: TheLordsServant


I don't, I merely asked a question.

You don't know who the Holy Spirit is, so why would it be in you?

Last Edited by Photina on 08/01/2018 03:08 PM
Many years you bore with them and warned them by your Spirit through your prophets. Yet they would not give ear. Therefore you gave them into the hand of the peoples of the lands. You gave your good Spirit to instruct them and did not withhold your manna from their mouth and gave them water for their thirst. Nevertheless, they were disobedient and rebelled against you and cast your law behind their back and killed your prophets, who had warned them in order to turn them back to you, and they committed great blasphemies.
Nehemiah 9:30,20,26, ESV
TheLordsServant

User ID: 76805018
United States
08/01/2018 03:45 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Christians do not go to heaven when they die.
Eternal life isn't fufilled until the Final Judgement.
 Quoting: TheLordsServant


Wrong, the Final Judgement of the wicked (Great White Throne) takes place after the 1000 years after the resurrection of the righteous.

Those in Christ are given immortality/eternal life at the Second Coming, the first resurrection, not before, not after.

Men die, sleep in the grave, and are resurrected, either to eternal life, or to punishment.

The wicked don't "go anywhere" or "know anything" after they die, just like the righteous. There is no "limbo" or "paradise", or intermediary station in between death and resurrection. Dead people don't live or experience anything, (duh).

The wicked won't be given eternal life, whether it be in "hell" or anywhere else. They PERISH (john 3:16).
 Quoting: Photina


Final judgement after the 1000 years is for the wicked only?

Here's Revelation 20

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather
them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened,
which is the book of life:
and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and
they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

If only the wicked get judged there's no reason to open multiple books.

Who are you to determine whether I or anyone else has the Holy Spirit?
 Quoting: TheLordsServant


I don't, I merely asked a question.

You don't know who the Holy Spirit is, so why would it be in you?
 Quoting: Photina


Maybe not as I haven't been baptised in water. But I've asked the specific question to the Father and received no answer / sign.

God the Father spoke to me and told me that He would heal my ear, which He did. Later on He told me to quit drinking 3 years ago, then also had several short conversations about other things later on.

A few months ago He told me that He was going to "hand me over" to His Son Jesus.

When it comes to scriptural arguments, I'm either quickly given verses OR direction as to "what or where" to look.

Last Edited by Servant-of-the-LORD on 08/01/2018 03:45 PM
I am a humble Servant of the one True Living God.
TGus

User ID: 74764022
United States
08/01/2018 03:48 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Christians do not go to heaven when they die.
The Catholic religion says they go to "Purgatory".
Photina  (OP)

User ID: 75562917
Canada
08/01/2018 03:52 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Christians do not go to heaven when they die.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened,
which is the book of life:
and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.


If only the wicked get judged there's no reason to open multiple books.
 Quoting: TheLordsServant


Read what you just posted, it says the DEAD are judged there.

The saints are being judged NOW.

Maybe not as I haven't been baptised in water. But I've asked the specific question to the Father and received no answer / sign.

God the Father spoke to me and told me that He would heal my ear, which He did. Later on He told me to quit drinking 3 years ago, then also had several short conversations about other things later on.

A few months ago He told me that He was going to "hand me over" to His Son Jesus.

When it comes to scriptural arguments, I'm either quickly given verses OR direction as to "what or where" to look.
 Quoting: TheLordsServant


Baptism in water is meaningless.

Ask the Father to baptize you with the Spirit of Christ, in the name of Jesus. That's all that matters.

Jesus is the comforter. His spirit is inside us, and we are his body.

Last Edited by Photina on 08/01/2018 03:53 PM
Many years you bore with them and warned them by your Spirit through your prophets. Yet they would not give ear. Therefore you gave them into the hand of the peoples of the lands. You gave your good Spirit to instruct them and did not withhold your manna from their mouth and gave them water for their thirst. Nevertheless, they were disobedient and rebelled against you and cast your law behind their back and killed your prophets, who had warned them in order to turn them back to you, and they committed great blasphemies.
Nehemiah 9:30,20,26, ESV
Photina  (OP)

User ID: 75562917
Canada
08/01/2018 03:52 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Christians do not go to heaven when they die.
The Catholic religion says they go to "Purgatory".
 Quoting: TGus


There is no such thing, it's a made up idea.
Many years you bore with them and warned them by your Spirit through your prophets. Yet they would not give ear. Therefore you gave them into the hand of the peoples of the lands. You gave your good Spirit to instruct them and did not withhold your manna from their mouth and gave them water for their thirst. Nevertheless, they were disobedient and rebelled against you and cast your law behind their back and killed your prophets, who had warned them in order to turn them back to you, and they committed great blasphemies.
Nehemiah 9:30,20,26, ESV
Tanticon

User ID: 76386888
United States
08/01/2018 03:53 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Christians do not go to heaven when they die.
They "sleep" in the grave until the resurrection (2nd Coming).

Most Christians have been deceived, and believe in the natural immortality of the human soul, a false, pagan doctrine that comes from the Roman Catholic Church, and not the Bible.

John 11:11-14
11 After he had said this, he went on to tell them, “Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep; but I am going there to wake him up.”
12 His disciples replied, “Lord, if he sleeps, he will get better.” 13 Jesus had been speaking of his death, but his disciples thought he meant natural sleep.
14 So then he told them plainly, “Lazarus is dead,"

John 11:24
Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
 Quoting: Photina


You my friend have no clue

When it speaks of being dead, having no memory, it is speaking of the physical body

The physical body will know nothing any more, will stay in the grave, until resurrection

The spirit will go to another place

The spirit is immortal in a sense, only God can destroy it

Understand the difference between the spirit and physical body

The spirit leaves the body at death, does not go into the ground
Tanticon
Photina  (OP)

User ID: 75562917
Canada
08/01/2018 03:54 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Christians do not go to heaven when they die.
They "sleep" in the grave until the resurrection (2nd Coming).

Most Christians have been deceived, and believe in the natural immortality of the human soul, a false, pagan doctrine that comes from the Roman Catholic Church, and not the Bible.

John 11:11-14
11 After he had said this, he went on to tell them, “Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep; but I am going there to wake him up.”
12 His disciples replied, “Lord, if he sleeps, he will get better.” 13 Jesus had been speaking of his death, but his disciples thought he meant natural sleep.
14 So then he told them plainly, “Lazarus is dead,"

John 11:24
Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
 Quoting: Photina


You my friend have no clue

When it speaks of being dead, having no memory, it is speaking of the physical body

The physical body will know nothing any more, will stay in the grave, until resurrection

The spirit will go to another place

The spirit is immortal in a sense, only God can destroy it

Understand the difference between the spirit and physical body

The spirit leaves the body at death, does not go into the ground
 Quoting: Tanticon


A living soul is half body, no body, no living soul.

Go away, or listen and repent. You sound like a gnostic. God and Jesus really hate gnostics.

Last Edited by Photina on 08/01/2018 04:27 PM
Many years you bore with them and warned them by your Spirit through your prophets. Yet they would not give ear. Therefore you gave them into the hand of the peoples of the lands. You gave your good Spirit to instruct them and did not withhold your manna from their mouth and gave them water for their thirst. Nevertheless, they were disobedient and rebelled against you and cast your law behind their back and killed your prophets, who had warned them in order to turn them back to you, and they committed great blasphemies.
Nehemiah 9:30,20,26, ESV
TheLordsServant

User ID: 76805018
United States
08/01/2018 04:15 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Christians do not go to heaven when they die.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened,
which is the book of life:
and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and
they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

If only the wicked get judged there's no reason to open multiple books.
 Quoting: TheLordsServant


Read what you just posted, it says the DEAD are judged there.

The saints are being judged NOW.
 Quoting: Photina


First off, it doesn't state that "the dead" = "the wicked".

Secondly. the "dead in the sea" is differentiated from the dead delivered up from "death and hell".

There's no point to judge the wicked by their works. Their fate is sealed.
I am a humble Servant of the one True Living God.
ODO

User ID: 76768887
Canada
08/01/2018 04:18 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Christians do not go to heaven when they die.
And luciferian go to hell. Yes
Photina  (OP)

User ID: 75562917
Canada
08/01/2018 04:19 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Christians do not go to heaven when they die.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened,
which is the book of life:
and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and
they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

If only the wicked get judged there's no reason to open multiple books.
 Quoting: TheLordsServant


Read what you just posted, it says the DEAD are judged there.

The saints are being judged NOW.
 Quoting: Photina


First off, it doesn't state that "the dead" = "the wicked".

Secondly. the "dead in the sea" is differentiated from the dead delivered up from "death and hell".

There's no point to judge the wicked by their works. Their fate is sealed.
 Quoting: TheLordsServant


The wicked are resurrected after 1000 years (the dead).

They are judged then, after surrounding New Jerusalem, fire comes down from Heaven and destroys them.

The righteous are safe behind the walls; they are fAR ftom judgement; having already been judged in this lifetime.

Rev 14:7
Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

Last Edited by Photina on 08/01/2018 04:20 PM
Many years you bore with them and warned them by your Spirit through your prophets. Yet they would not give ear. Therefore you gave them into the hand of the peoples of the lands. You gave your good Spirit to instruct them and did not withhold your manna from their mouth and gave them water for their thirst. Nevertheless, they were disobedient and rebelled against you and cast your law behind their back and killed your prophets, who had warned them in order to turn them back to you, and they committed great blasphemies.
Nehemiah 9:30,20,26, ESV
Aristarc

User ID: 76461013
Brazil
08/06/2018 08:56 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Christians do not go to heaven when they die.
Revelations 6-9:11

9 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained.
10 They called out in a loud voice, “How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?”
11 Then each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the full number of their fellow servants, their brothers and sisters, were killed just as they had been.

****
How is it possible for the souls of those who have died to called out with a loud voice if they are sleeping in the grave? Either they are calling or they are sleeping in the grave. Chose one. It is important to remember that this passage of Revelation passes BEFORE the resurrection of the dead and the final judgment. Mortalism and annihilationism are cults created by madmen, Both Roman Catholics and Lutherans and Calvinists usually accept the immortality of the soul as a fact, with many biblical references to prove it. Mortalism is a stupid doctrine. No one in their right mind believes such thing. If it were so, there would be no punishment for sins, there would be no justice, there would be no hell. No! Jesus says that those who go to hell will be tormented day and night. How can they be tormented while sleeping in the grave? This does not make sense. A person could then commit all kinds of crimes and his punishment would be to sleep forever? God is a God of JUSTICE, remember that.
Aristarc

User ID: 76461013
Brazil
08/06/2018 09:00 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Christians do not go to heaven when they die.
OP

specialstupid
Photina  (OP)

User ID: 15823204
Canada
08/06/2018 09:13 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Christians do not go to heaven when they die.
OP

specialstupid
 Quoting: Aristarc


The Bible doesn't teach that there is an afterlife or that we are immortal beings.
Many years you bore with them and warned them by your Spirit through your prophets. Yet they would not give ear. Therefore you gave them into the hand of the peoples of the lands. You gave your good Spirit to instruct them and did not withhold your manna from their mouth and gave them water for their thirst. Nevertheless, they were disobedient and rebelled against you and cast your law behind their back and killed your prophets, who had warned them in order to turn them back to you, and they committed great blasphemies.
Nehemiah 9:30,20,26, ESV
Aristarc

User ID: 76461013
Brazil
08/06/2018 09:50 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Christians do not go to heaven when they die.
Since in death there are neither body nor soul, what will be resurrected? What will be restored in the resurrected body if there is nothing left? Don't you realize that denying the posthumous life falls into the error of the Sadducees, that is, they deny the resurrection? In fact, denying the immortality of the soul, mortalists do not believe in the resurrection, but in a re-creation.
****
****
If in fact there was a sleep of the soul, Christ would have spent three days without being God, for He would be asleep! And God would have definitely gone, for at least three days. Can God come to a state of non-existence?
****
****
Why does Daniel (12: 2) says that the wicked will rise to "eternal shame"? Why shame, if they will be annihilated? How can one annihilated to be eternal ashamed ?
****
****
If "Sheol" or "Hades" is just the grave, then:
a) Why did Jesus make an illustration using the Greek term "hades" as a place of life (Lk 16: 19-31)? Does a parable have the power to change the meaning of words?
b) Why do Hebrew and Greek have proper words for burial (QEVER, in Hebrew, and MNEMEION in Greek)?
c) Why did Jacob picture Sheol as something other than a grave in Genesis 37:35, 36?
c) Why did Jonas find it possible to shout from the sheol (Jon 2.2)?
****
****
If Gehenna is a mere symbol of eternal destruction, why then in Mark 9:47, 48 Christ says that it is worse to stop at Gehenna with the whole body? If Geena really is a place of destruction, what difference would it make to go there missing some member of the body or with it complete?
****
****
Why in the history of the Church have Christians never doubted the immortality of the soul? Did you know that this idea only appeared with the humanism that began in the sixteenth century?
****
****
There are a lot of arguments in the bible that destroy the doctrine of mortalism. I put only a few of them.
Photina  (OP)

User ID: 15823204
Canada
08/06/2018 09:51 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Christians do not go to heaven when they die.
If in fact there was a sleep of the soul, Christ would have spent three days without being God,
 Quoting: Aristarc


Jesus isn't God.
Many years you bore with them and warned them by your Spirit through your prophets. Yet they would not give ear. Therefore you gave them into the hand of the peoples of the lands. You gave your good Spirit to instruct them and did not withhold your manna from their mouth and gave them water for their thirst. Nevertheless, they were disobedient and rebelled against you and cast your law behind their back and killed your prophets, who had warned them in order to turn them back to you, and they committed great blasphemies.
Nehemiah 9:30,20,26, ESV
jake

User ID: 76818530
United States
08/06/2018 09:52 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Christians do not go to heaven when they die.
deleting scripture now?
Evil controls the ignorant... Climate change is a hoax so is the vax you have been fear-porned into compliance!

Definition Satan from the bible: Satan (Rev 12:7) exercising his subtle (indirect) impact on heathen governments (powers) – i.e. accomplishing his hellish agenda from "behind the scenes."
Photina  (OP)

User ID: 15823204
Canada
08/06/2018 09:54 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Christians do not go to heaven when they die.
deleting scripture now?
 Quoting: jake


Your posts are not inspired.
Many years you bore with them and warned them by your Spirit through your prophets. Yet they would not give ear. Therefore you gave them into the hand of the peoples of the lands. You gave your good Spirit to instruct them and did not withhold your manna from their mouth and gave them water for their thirst. Nevertheless, they were disobedient and rebelled against you and cast your law behind their back and killed your prophets, who had warned them in order to turn them back to you, and they committed great blasphemies.
Nehemiah 9:30,20,26, ESV
jake

User ID: 76818530
United States
08/06/2018 09:59 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Christians do not go to heaven when they die.
deleting scripture now?
 Quoting: jake


Your posts are not inspired.
 Quoting: Photina


scripture is not inspired?
Evil controls the ignorant... Climate change is a hoax so is the vax you have been fear-porned into compliance!

Definition Satan from the bible: Satan (Rev 12:7) exercising his subtle (indirect) impact on heathen governments (powers) – i.e. accomplishing his hellish agenda from "behind the scenes."
Photina  (OP)

User ID: 15823204
Canada
08/06/2018 10:00 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Christians do not go to heaven when they die.
deleting scripture now?
 Quoting: jake


Your posts are not inspired.
 Quoting: Photina


scripture is not inspired?
 Quoting: jake


eyeroll
Many years you bore with them and warned them by your Spirit through your prophets. Yet they would not give ear. Therefore you gave them into the hand of the peoples of the lands. You gave your good Spirit to instruct them and did not withhold your manna from their mouth and gave them water for their thirst. Nevertheless, they were disobedient and rebelled against you and cast your law behind their back and killed your prophets, who had warned them in order to turn them back to you, and they committed great blasphemies.
Nehemiah 9:30,20,26, ESV
Aristarc

User ID: 76461013
Brazil
08/06/2018 10:02 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Christians do not go to heaven when they die.
One more for you to think about.
****

The verb "exterminate" in Greek is "apokteinõ" and appears in Mt 10.28 referring to the body. But why does Matthew, speaking of the "death of the soul" changed the verb to "apollumi" (which in various biblical contexts means to rot, to ruin, to suffer) - Rom 14.15; 1 Cor 8.11 And why did Luke (12.4.5) complicate further by placing the Greek verb "cast" rather than "exterminate"?
Aristarc

User ID: 76461013
Brazil
08/06/2018 10:06 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Christians do not go to heaven when they die.
If in fact there was a sleep of the soul, Christ would have spent three days without being God,
 Quoting: Aristarc


Jesus isn't God.
 Quoting: Photina


WHAAAAAAAAATTTTTTTTTTTT??????!!!!! (Pastor Paul Begley mode)
****
To deny the divinity of Jesus is a sin against the Holy Spirit. Sin that has no forgiveness. This is even worse than mortalism, it is pure Gnosticism. Accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior and GOD while there is time, my friend.





GLP