Christians do not go to heaven when they die.

I've seen people who didn't yet pass on that were in heaven.Everything was super bright and people admired Gods creations.Everything was beautiful.There were things that were tied to people on earth that those in heaven would walk up and admire almost like you would in a museum and you could see/feel the connection to it.

I know this because there was this flower along side this path that I was told was planted for me and these happy people came walking by,stopped to look at the flower and continued to walk after staring at it.
Then I was told to check it out,and was taken to a defing moment in my life.

Jesus said that He was Mysteries of the Kingdom teacher. Why Christian ignore His words? Heard about mystery schools?

What are you quoting jackass? I've asked twice now and you can't answer??

I'm starting to think you're full of shit.

Tell me what you're reading and I'll compare the multiple language versions. Because they certainly don't all say that.

Thanks for the bump. Look it up yourself and compare, lazy man.

I was at a funeral back in feb 2017
after when we were all eating and socializing with friends and family
2 of my family members got into an argument
about this subject
I really don't know

Trolls will troll, you do not state which version.

Only John and chapters - I'm done here, good day sir.

Trolls can never ever back up one thing they state, whether it be historical or scientific or religious.

I always can state my sources, and if I state something, I am correct.

And if - in the rare case I'm proven wrong I will retract.

You POS don't have the human decency for that.

So I retract may peace be with you, and join your crook nose friends in hell fire. buh bye.

Jesus/the Bible says that your ancestors are "sleeping" in the grave awaiting the resurrection.

Great Post OP.

I agree

Love this thread.

You are led of the Spirit.

Well, it does not say anything like that but it says:
1"But I, brothers,a could not address you as spiritual people, but as people of the flesh, as infants in Christ. 2I fed you with milk, not solid food, for you were not ready for it. And even now you are not yet ready, 3for you are still of the flesh. "

True. Paul also spoke of his crown to be received on the last day:
2 Timothy 4:8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.



These 2 verses can show clearly people don't go immediately to heaven:
Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

St. John 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

Something to be noted is that people are only sleeping in Paradise (aka Abraham's Bosom) if they confess Jesus Christ as THEIR Lord. A Christian who believes might not even do that and I have met a few! Its very important because it's the will of God Jesus.

Someone can claim to be a Christian, or believe in Jesus as I said and end up going to hell. His people perish for the stupid reason of lack of knowledge.

Hey, we agree on something. Praise God.

After you die your soul leaves body.Then finds another one-you are born again.You may be born as animal or human that depends what have you done bad or good in your life.This is real.Soul is eternal

Nope.

We *are* souls. Souls can die.
We are not "spirits trapped inside a body".

This is a hard one, there has been already one calling up of the old Testament Saints. These are the elders and Saints in Heaven when John is called up to Heaven in Revelation. These are the First Fruits. We fine it in:

Matthew 27
50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.

51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

54 Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God.

Then Paul says this:

2 Corinthians 5 King James Version (KJV)

5 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:

3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.

4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.

5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.

6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:

7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight:)

8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.

10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.

If you read The Gospel of Nicodemus it gives much revelation of what took place when Jesus descended into hell after he died on the cross. Take the time to read It you will not be disappointed. The link is on page 3. To me it's a blessing. In scripture it says that many that were asleep came back and they are the ones that shared what took place.

Next we know that if you are killed for the name of Jesus Christ
that you go to heaven as in:

Revelation 6
9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

And again in:

Revelation 7:13-15

13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?

14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.

All of this is still part of the first Resurrection as we see in:

Revelation 20
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

Last Edited by Tips on 07/31/2018 08:24 PM

Then we have the Great White Throne where all are judged.

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

The Book of Life is where your name needs to be!

Philippians 4:3
And I intreat thee also, true yokefellow, help those women which laboured with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and with other my fellowlabourers, whose names are in the book of life.

Revelation 3:5
He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Revelation 21:27
And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

Revelation 22:19
And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Last Edited by Tips on 07/31/2018 08:25 PM

Paradise doe not = Heaven fyi

Then we have the Last Trump

1 Corinthians 15
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.

48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Oh! So there's paradise AND heaven now?

"Souls crying out from beneath the altar" argument.

... that's NOT literal but FIGURATIVE, and already covered.

Why would there be souls of righteous people in an altar? Wouldn't they be IN HEAVEN/"paradise" already?

Last Edited by Photina on 07/31/2018 09:19 PM

The Bible says 2 men ought not lay together.....

Pretty tired of these dumb posts.

How about YOU are wrong. Jesus is not a known liar. If he said it, it was so.

What is your religious affiliation? You definitely aren't mainstream Christian.