Christians do not go to heaven when they die.

The Bible refers to the human soul as immortal zero times, rather, it says "Only God is immortal". 1 Timothy 6:16.

"the dead do not know anything; they have no further reward--and even the memory of them disappears."
Ecclesiastes 9:5

The Bible says after death a person: returns to dust (Psalms 104:29)
possesses no mental powers (Psalms 146:4),
has nothing to do with anything on earth (Ecclesiastes 9:6)
does not live (2 Kings 20:1)
waits in the grave (Job 17:13)
and continues not (Job 14:1, 2).

Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Proverbs 11:19
He who is steadfast in righteousness will attain to life, And he who pursues evil will bring about his own death.

Ezekiel 18:4
"Behold, all souls are Mine; the soul of the father as well as the soul of the son is Mine. The soul who sins will die.

Last Edited by Photina on 07/31/2018 01:13 PM

The Last Day 3/19/2010

I was standing in line to see a concert. There were lots of people wearing the concert T Shirts, and on the back of them it read...

"The Last Day" was the name of the band playing. I woke up and wrote this down.

Job 19:25-27
For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:

26And after my skin has been destroyed,
yete inf my flesh I will see God;

27I myself will see him
with my own eyes—I, and not another.

Daniel 12:1-3
12 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.

Last Edited by Photina on 07/31/2018 12:42 PM

Luke 23:39-43 New International Version (NIV)
39 One of the criminals who hung there hurled insults at him: “Aren’t you the Messiah? Save yourself and us!”

40 But the other criminal rebuked him. “Don’t you fear God,” he said, “since you are under the same sentence? 41 We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong.”

42 Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.[a]”

43 Jesus answered him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.”

Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Well, Jesus must have been lying to the thief because Jesus did not ascend to Heaven until many weeks later.

Or that translation is wrong.

Choose one.

Hell is the grave/death.

soul lives on after

"God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." Genesis 2:7.

So we are living souls, which consist of two parts: dust (body), and the breath of life (spirit).

When one dies, "Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it." Ecclesiastes 12:7.

No breath/spirit = a dead soul.

Ecclesiastes 3:19
Surely the fate of human beings is like that of the animals; the same fate awaits them both: As one dies, so dies the other. All have the same breath; humans have no advantage over animals. Everything is meaningless.

Last Edited by Photina on 07/31/2018 12:45 PM

No Paul verses, very telling.

the Bible plainly teaches that the dead lie in the grave and know nothing, think no thoughts, have no emotions, possess no consciousness. Does this mean death, the cessation of life, is final, the end of everything?

The Bible answers this question too. Although mankind is physical, subject to death, the good news is that God promises a resurrection to eternal life to everyone who repents, worships God and accepts Jesus as the Messiah and His sacrifice. The first resurrection to immortality will take place when Christ returns to establish God’s Kingdom on this earth.

Later will come another resurrection—to physical life—for people who had never had a relationship with the Father and Jesus Christ. They, too, will gain the opportunity for immortality. The true final answer is not death but resurrection.

1 Corinthians 15:51-53
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

Paul teaches exactly what the Scriptures teach.

Man sleeps in the grave until the last day, at the last trump, the Second Coming.

Only then will the elect be saved.

There is no afterlife.

Last Edited by Photina on 07/31/2018 12:50 PM

"Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."

1 Thessalonians 4:17

The dust falls to the ground and the breath of life for all living things returns to God. All the way down to sparrows apparently..

Ec:3:20:
All go unto one place;
all are of the dust,
and all turn to dust again.

Ec:12:7:
Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was:
and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

1Th:4:13-15:
But I would not have you to be ignorant,
brethren,
concerning them which are asleep,
that ye sorrow not,
even as others which have no hope.
For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again,
even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord,
that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

Da:12:1-2:
And at that time shall Michael stand up,
the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people:
and there shall be a time of trouble,
such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time:
and at that time thy people shall be delivered,
every one that shall be found written in the book.
And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake,
some to everlasting life,
and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Re:20:4-5:
And I saw thrones,
and they sat upon them,
and judgment was given unto them:
and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus,
and for the word of God,
and which had not worshipped the beast,
neither his image,
neither had received his mark upon their foreheads,
or in their hands;
and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.
This is the first resurrection.

The good news is nobody goes to hell until a few at their appointed time. They will be the only men that stand on the beach of the lake of fire so they are unique in that respect.

Last Edited by Wayfaring Stranger on 07/31/2018 12:54 PM

At the Last Day.

John 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

all are resurrected

all


Luke 20:36 Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.


after resurection

no more death


= to angels

Absent from the body,
present with the Lord

Only the physical body "sleeps in the dust of the earth"

Now try the story, not a parable,
the story of the Rich man and Lazarus the beggar

Those involved were awake, alert, and aware
the Rich man called out to Father Abraham

Father Abraham have mercy on me and send Lazarus to dip his finger in water and cool my tongue

Abraham said no can do, there is a great gulf fixed between us so that you cannot cross to us and we cannot cross to you

The Rich man said send Lazarus to my brothers that they might not come to this awful place

Abraham told him again, no can do, they have Moses and the Prophets if they won't believe them, neither will they believe if someone rises from the dead


The left side of Hades is the torment side
the unrighteous dead still go there awake, alert, and aware
to await the final judgment,
after which they get tossed into the lake of fire, AKA Gehenna, AKA Hell

The right side of Hades was Abraham's Bosom, the righteous dead went there until it was emptied out when Christ led them up out of there to heaven


soul sleep is a heresy

There two separate resurrection for the righteous and wicked; it doesn't mean humans are naturally immortal or that there is an afterlife /continuity at death.

We don't live on in spirit form at death, as the pagans teach.

I'm going to speed up the dust part by cremation.

You quoted a PARABLE (not literal).

Try again. Jesus himself said that death is a sleep.

The lake of fire comes down from Heaven and "devours" the wicked after the second resurrection; it's not "a place" where sinners "go" to suffer torture for an eternity.

You're the heretic. : (

Last Edited by Photina on 07/31/2018 01:01 PM

if i play a game
i can download the entire game on a hard drive

remove the hard druve
install a new one
save the old one

and re load it to re play the game whenever i desire

perhaps we die
are classified
then re loaded later for processing

it's not a parable

nowhere in the text does it say it was a parable

and besides that

if the dead are not awake, alert, and aware

why would he teach something untrue as the dead being awake, alert, and aware in a parable?

Last Edited by Swirl King on 07/31/2018 01:00 PM

Does it really matter if you're right or wrong about exactly how this goes down? If I'm asleep before being awaken will i even know? Will i care?

I can see both sides actually.

I like Photina's threads since she hits on things that make me wonder. Like when people pray to Jesus instead of Yahweh. Jesus showed us how to pray. And Jesus told us to do it in the closet to avoid looking righteous.

[link to en.m.wikipedia.org (secure)]
"The parable of the rich man and Lazarus (also called the Dives and Lazarus or Lazarus and Dives) is a well-known parable of Jesus appearing in the Gospel of Luke."

also

at least 144000 ARE taken to "heaven"


to rule as kings and priests


3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.


so some survive the "great tribulation"

14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

who stay here on earth

while 144000 humans are taken to theirs to rule humanity from theirs

They come out of the tribulation.

Meaning, they endure until the last day, the Second Coming.

Daniel 12:1-3
12 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

Last Edited by Photina on 07/31/2018 01:07 PM

Wherefore blessed is the barren that is undefiled, which hath not known the sinful bed: she shall have fruit in the visitation of souls. Wisdom 3:13


wilderness state, not knowing the ways of the religious or the deep things of satan.

group #1

group #2 are taken
144000

enoch was taken

i think first one should define the term "heaven"

i think it means differently than what the majority thinks

I think you should do less posting and more listening.