Godlike Productions - Discussion Forum
Users Online Now: 1,829 (Who's On?)Visitors Today: 334,449
Pageviews Today: 548,251Threads Today: 184Posts Today: 3,272
07:43 AM


Rate this Thread

Absolute BS Crap Reasonable Nice Amazing
 

To the children of God....

 
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 186930
Canada
03/21/2007 03:12 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: To the children of God....
Welcome back Michael

It seems that, usually, we are ready to do almost anything but surrender ourselves to God. I recall the time when the British general came to surrender to Washington. The general began with a flowery speech in which he praised Washington for his magnificent military tactics and the way he had conducted the campaigns. He was eloquently praising Washington when Washington suddenly interrupted him with these words: "Your sword, sir!" Similarly, we come to offer God the flattery of our lips, the praise of our hymns. And God is saying to us, "Your sword, sir!" Surrender is what God wants! Total surrender of our lives!

The following words by George D. Watson will help us see the unsurpassable beauty and majesty of what it really means to be SUBDUED UNTO God.

"Before God can launch us out into the breadth and sweetness of His service, and entrust to us great things for Himself, we must be perfectly subdued in every part of our nature to His will and disposition of His mind. We must be subdued in our hearts, in our wills, in our words, in our tempers, in our manners; subdued through and through so thoroughly that we will be flexible to all His purposes and plans. We must be subdued that harshness, severity, criticism, slugishness, laziness, impetuousity, and all wanting our way, even in religious matters, must be subdued out of us. Conversion will not finish this work.

"We must be subdued, not merely in our own opinion, not merely think ourselves subdued, not only subdued in the esteem of our friends and fellow workers, but subdued so perfectly that the all-seeing eye of God can look us through, and the omniscient One knows that we are subdued. God must conquer the man that He can trust with His great thoughts and plans. The Holy Ghost must saturate us with a divine conquest, before He can use us to conquer other souls. The Lord will begin to subdue us with gentle means; and if we sink lovingly and promptly into His mind, the work will be done; but, if we have flint or iron in our nature, and it is necessary, He will use heroic means and put us between the millstones and grind us to powder, until He can mold us without any resistance to His purpose. We must be so subdued that we can hold our tongues, and walk softly with God, keep our eyes upon Jesus, attend to our own work, and do God's will promptly and lovingly, glad to have a place in His Kingdom.

"Oh! it is grand to be absolutely conquered by the Holy Ghost, and swing out a thousand miles from everybody and everything into the ocean of God's presence. When we are subdued in the sight of God, He will work miracles in us, and power in experience, in healing, in finance, in service, in gentleness, and in sweetness of the inner heart life; miracles of grace that will astonish us and surprise our friends, and utterly amaze our enemies, when they come to know the magnitude of what God has wrought. Let us get subdued in every way, in everything!"

Oh, the ineffable glory to be revealed when all rule and all authority and all power and all enemies and all things shall be subdued unto Christ and God shall be all in all! What anticipation this stirs in our hearts!

Oh! the beauty of God's plan of the ages! "Salvation is of the Lord" (Jonah 2:9). It is a fundamental and wonderful fact that salvation is of the Lord and not man, but the Lord does not save all in this age. Why not? He does save some; and if He saves some, why not others? Is it because they are too sinful and depraved? No; for the apostle wrote, "This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief " (I Tim. 1:15). Therefore, if God saved the "chief" of sinners, none are excluded because of their depravity. Why then does God not now save all? Is it because some are too stony-hearted to be won? No; because of the most stony-hearted people of all it is written, that God will yet "take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them a heart of flesh" (Eze. 11:9). Then is it because some are so stubborn, so intractable, so defiant, so incorrigible that God is unable to woo them to Himself?

I shall answer that question by asking another. Beloved, was there not a time when you walked in the counsel of the ungodly, stood in the way of sinners, sat in the seat of the scornful, and with them said, "We will not have this Man to reign over us" (Lk. 19:14)? Was there not a time when you "would not come to Christ that you might have life" (Jn. 5:40)? With shamed face most of those who read these lines have to acknowledge there was. But how is it that all is now changed? What was it that brought you from haughty self-sufficiency to a humble suppliant, from one that was at enmity with God to one that is at peace with Him, from lawlessness to subjection, from hate to love? And, as one born of the Spirit, you will readily reply, " By the grace of God I am what I am" (I Cor. 15:10).

What is it that caused you to put your trust in Christ? Is it because you were more intelligent than your fellows, and quicker to discern your need of salvation? Perish the thought - " Who makes you to differ from another ? And what have you that you did not receive? Now if you didn't receive it, why do you glory, as if you had not received it" (I Cor. 4:7)? Then do you not see that it is due to no lack of power in God, nor to His refusal to coerce man, that other rebels are not now saved too? If God was able to subdue your heart, then is He not able to do the same for others? Assuredly He is! Then how inconsistent, how illogical, how foolish of men to argue that God is unable to save the masses of hell-bent humanity because they will not let Him. Do you say, "But the time came when I was willing , willing to receive Christ as my Saviour." True, but it was the Lord who made you willing! (Ps. 110:3; Phil. 2:13).

Why then does He not make other sinners willing? The answer is of course: He will! "As in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall ALL be made alive. BUT EVERY MAN IN HIS OWN ORDER: a firstfruit Anointed; afterwards they that are Christ's at His appearing. Then... the end, when ... ALL SHALL BE SUBDUED UNTO HIM ... that God may be ALL IN ALL."

I shall fight that battle for the supremacy of Christ while there is a drop of blood in my body. I shall claim that every foot of this earth and every man upon this earth and under the earth belongs to Christ, for He made the earth and He made every man. He tasted death for every man, and therefore, every foot of the earth; and every man on the earth and under the earth belongs to Christ my Lord. They are His by right of creation and by right of redemption. I claim for His this great and universal Kingdom. The Church has forgotten that Christ came to establish a Kingdom and that it must break in pieces and CONSUME (take into itself) every other kingdom including the devil's kingdom. The Gospel which Christ preached was the Gospel of the Kingdom of God. The hope and aim of all His work was the establishment of the Kingdom of God. When the end shall come, He shall deliver up the Kingdom to God, even the Father, and in it will be everything God created, that God may be ALL IN ALL.

We who preach this Gospel of the all-inclusive redemption of Christ preach not a Gospel of limited atonement, nor of a partial Kingdom, nor of a Christ who was a failure, nor of a devil who wins the battle for souls and possesses the souls of untold billions throughout an endless eternity. Such a doctrine would be blasphemy! We preach the Gospel of the Kingdom of God and of the triumph of that Kingdom in every realm. We demand that every man upon this God's earth, and under the earth, and in heaven and hell and throughout the universe, shall bow the knee and glorify God by calling Jesus Lord and serving and obeying Him with a willing heart. God shall grant it! If it takes ages upon ages, God shall grant it! After all, what difference does it make as to how long God chooses to take to bring any given thing to pass? The Church world has long been in a frenzy to get the world destroyed and the sinners into hell and all the saints into heaven for eternity. it sort of reminds me of someone driving at dangerous speeds to get somewhere in a hurry so he can sit down and do nothing. Such people have no conception at all of God's all-wise plan, nor of the intensity of His love, nor of the omnipotence of His power. But God will have the last laugh! Life and death are in HIS hands, none other. God gives life or takes it away. His express will is that ALL be saved, for God " will have all men to be saved" (I Tim. 2:4). He will get His way. You can count on it!

 Quoting: brother in Christ
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 186930
Canada
03/21/2007 06:20 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: To the children of God....
God all in all-- this will be the grand conclusion of the great drama of the world's history and of Christ's redemption. There will come a day - the glory is such we can form no conception of it, the mystery is so deep we cannot realize it - when the Son shall deliver up the Kingdom that God gave Him and which He won with His own blood and established and perfected from the throne of His glory. "He shall deliver up the Kingdom unto the Father ... that God may be all in all."

All in all -- such is the grand goal of our God! He will yet be everything to everyone of His creatures, as it is fitting He should be. Nothing less will satisfy His heart for "He has created all things, and for His pleasure they are and were created" (Rev. 4:11). Nothing less will vindicate His love or form a fit conclusion for the sin and sorrow and death of the ages. Let us with joy believe it! Let us exult as we receive it! Let us be "laborers together with God" to accomplish it! May this simple phrase, that the smallest child can utter, become the very basis of our being, the background of every act, the key to every occurrence, a light in every darkness, a balm for every wound, and our ages-lasting consolation and good hope.

Let us awake from the terrifying nightmare of Babylon's delusions and let us wing our spirits to God's glorious consummation. Here is a vision worthy of the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ - GOD ALL IN ALL. And now, this ultimate reality must begin in us who have received the call to sonship. If this is what fills the heart of Christ; if this expresses the one end of the work of Christ, then, if I would have the spirit of Christ in me, the motto of my life must be: Everything made subject and swallowed up in Him "that God may be all in all." What a life that will be when that really becomes our banner! To serve the Father fully, wholly, only, to have Him all in all! I am praying, believing, and pressing on "that God may be all in all;" that the day of glory may be hastened. I am fighting the good fight of faith, and the Holy Spirit makes His wrestling within me with unutterable longing, "that God may be all in all."

Would that all the saints of God realized with what a grand cause we are working and praying; that all had some conception of the Kingdom we are partakers of, and what a manifestation of God we are preparing for! That He is not All in all at the present is quite obvious, for only a fraction have faintly felt that God was indeed ALL to them. Some have known Him as their Saviour, some have experienced Him as their healer, some have received gracious gifts from His hands, some have acknowledged Him as their Lord, some have found Him as their ALL. Happy are they who know Him thus! They have tasted of the cup ineffable, which quenches every thirst and brims with every blessing.

I am living for this, that Christ may have the Kingdom to deliver up to the Father, and then God will be all in all. I am living for Him, and I shall be there not only as a witness, but I will have a part in it all. The Kingdom delivered up, the Son made subject, and God all in all! I shall have a part in it and in adoring worship share the glory and blessedness. Let us take this home to our hearts that it may rule our lives - this one thought, this one faith, this one aim, this one joy: Christ lived and died and reigns; I live and die and in His power I reign only for this one thing, "that God may be all in all!" Everything in history is moving inexorably toward a day when Jesus will have conquered everything and everyone. Like a mountain of soil before a gigantic bulldozer steadily moving forward, all that can be conquered is being collected into the loving arms of Jesus, whose right it is to rule. He will then turn it over to God the Father "that God may be All in All."

When Christ ascended on high after His resurrection, He led many captives out of the pit and also set forth this greater purpose: "Now that He ascended, what is it but that He also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things " (Eph. 4:9-10). The message is clear - redemption does not include only the salvation of mankind, as wonderful and glorious as that aspect is, but it also includes the complete transformation of the entire universe so that God shall fill all things. There shall not be left one corner of this vast universe where He shall not be Lord and King. Everything everywhere shall be restored to the beautiful harmony and order of the love of God. Indeed, HE SHALL FILL ALL THINGS SO THAT "GOD MAY BE ALL IN ALL."

V. Gelesnoff wrote:

"The current Evangelical Theology involves in its system belief in the deathlessness of sin, the indestructibility of error, and permanence of evil. That though there was a time in the history of the universe when sin in any shape or form did not exist, when no cry of pain or sense of guilt darkened the all-extensive bliss and holiness of creation, yet since sin has once effected an entrance into such a scene, it has come in NEVER TO GO OUT AGAIN, indestructible, unconquerable, ineradicable, endless. Absolute happiness and sinlessness have forever vanished like the phantom of a dream. The 'eternal state' is a universe endlessly finding room for myriads of souls rolling and writhing in the burning agonies of ceaseless flame, eternally sinful, vile and morally hideous. It pictures the final perfection (?) yet to be attained as having room for a vast cesspool of immoral and degraded beings, continually existing in opposition to God.

"This system of doctrine, though as old as man, as venerable as the tradition, as hoary as the pyramids, as 'orthodox' as anything in ancient or modern theology, is a misconception, a travesty of God's character, a caricature of His wisdom, and must be relegated to the scrapheap of ancestral error.

"Gladly do we turn from this figment of natural reason to the grand, simple statements of the unadorned Word of God. It looks forward to a time when God shall be all in all, when heaven and earth shall be purged from every stain of sin's pollution. It anticipates that glad occasion when every heart shall beat in unison with the heart of God; every mind shall harmonize with the Divine Wisdom and Purpose; every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord"

While we praise God for every moving of His Spirit and each step of His all-wise plan, the fact remains that none of the revivals of history have ever once-for-all defeated satan, sin, and death. No revival in any land has turned the whole world to God! No dealing of God with humanity has ever brought to pass the total triumph of His Kingdom in all realms! Sin and death still stalk across the earth, the vast masses of humanity held tight in their terrible clutches. Is there no deliverance for these? How truly the whole creation groans and travails in pain together, waiting, not for another Luther, nor another Paul, nor another Finney, nor another Peter, nor another Moody; waiting not for another Pentecost, nor for another healing campaign, nor for another prophet. "For the earnest expectation of the creation waits for THE MANIFESTATION OF THE SONS OF GOD" (Rom. 8:19). And why does all creation wait with bated breath, standing on tiptoe to see the wonderful sight of God's Sons coming into their own? "For the creation itself ALSO shall be delivered ... INTO THE GLORIOUS LIBERTY OF THE SONS OF GOD!" (Rom. 8:21). Praise God!

Thank God, Dan 7:27 is really true! "And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom, under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve Him!" Thank God, Eph. 1:10 is actually the fully inspired Word of God! "And this is in harmony with God's merciful purpose for the Government of the world when the times are ripe for it - the purpose which He has cherished in His own mind of restoring the whole creation to find its one Head in Christ; yes, things in heaven and things on earth, to find their one Head IN HIM" (Weymouth).

A little seed is the beginning of a great tree. A mustard seed becomes a tree in which the birds of the air can nestle. That great day of which our text speaks, when Christ shall deliver up the Kingdom to the Father, and God shall be All in All - that is the great tree of the Kingdom of God reaching its perfect consummation and glory. Oh, beloved, let us take the seed of that glory into our hearts and let us bow in lowly surrender and submission, saying "Amen, Lord; this be my one thought, this be my life - to yield myself to the unutterable yearnings of the Holy Spirit that I may not rest, but ever keep my vision set on that day the day of glory, when in very deed God shall be ALL IN ALL." God help everyone who reads these lines, God help us all to yield ourselves to Him, that we may be in the fullest and total sense the firstfruits of His redemption. Amen!

WILL GOD BE -

ALL in Few?...ALL in Many?...ALL in Most?...

SOME in Some?...SOME in All?...

or - ALL in ALL?...
You can count on it! That is God's plan!



 Quoting: brother in Christ
The Cherished One  (OP)

User ID: 181321
United States
03/21/2007 07:52 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: To the children of God....
Greetings again all

Thanks for the welcome back “186930”, dear friend…I find your post’s very interesting, with much truth…still reading them…and thanks for posting them! And to the rest, how we all doing tonight? Well...I hope!


Also…I needed to answer this before I finished reading.., Yes, it’s that important.


~czygyny~the wanderer

Quote….

Cherished One, does this have any bearing on a 'door' and an 'invitation' that I saw in a brief vision, a while back? The feeling was an urgent and immediate decision to make, to go through the door or to stay. End quote.


To answer your question dear friend… yes, from what I can see here, it could well be the same event my wife and I have had “conversations” about just recently.

Yes, there will be a choice to be made, but what it all entails still remains to be SEEN and WITNESSED… Selah


Glorious times ahead

That which has been “Hidden” WILL come forth and Oh my dear souls!….The Glory’s that have rarely been told..Will be SEEN many times fold!


You know, that WORD keeps coming up lately.. Glory .. that is. Hmmmmm

Back to reading..
Thread: The Cherished One

...do remember my agreement with everyone when having these little conversations. There is no judgment on my end of things nor any expectations on my part. You are free to believe what you wish.

A message of Hope… [link to www.godlikeproductions.com]
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 194356
United States
03/21/2007 09:52 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: To the children of God....
We await your discernment on these matters in which you have read, as we value your input greatly.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 186930
Canada
03/21/2007 10:25 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: To the children of God....
We await your discernment on these matters in which you have read, as we value your input greatly.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 194356


I would be entirely surprised if any would be able to grasp this in one sitting. I have had this deep in my spirit and when this message was first shared this with me, it was at least six months of prayer, confirmation and removal of false theological bricks that were in my foundation, before I finally came into agreement. I fought against it as it seemed to be unbiblical, but fortunately there are many good teachers who have elaborated on all the false bricks that were placed in my foundation.

Today this is my foundation in Christ, and the outcome is being able to see my fellow man in a more compassionate light, and seeing the Lord in a greater love.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 211365
United States
03/21/2007 10:52 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: To the children of God....
[link to ggodard.free.fr]
The Cherished One  (OP)

User ID: 181321
United States
03/21/2007 11:32 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: To the children of God....
Greetings again all


Whoever wrote that "186930" , would understand this…

Baby’s are born on the Mountains...New ones are born on the “shore”.. given on 7-17-04

Hint* Predestination

But you see, I stay clear of the subject because it cause’s division with some and it is one of the things that cause people to “think” we are different from them and them not understanding The Love of God, nor the fact that each and every life has meaning. God has different vessels for different things friends, but this is quite obvious if one thinks about everyone’s differencing life experiences.

It’s getting late here friends and I need to go eat, so I will leave you with this. Do take the time to just be still before Him, you might be surprised at what you hear.

God is EXCITED about this, in a VERY GOOD way dear souls.

You see, I’m a little old fashion so to speak and believe one should back their words up with action.

You have a saying… Let's Get Er' Done! Yes, that about sums it up…

Our Love to you all

Michael

The Cherished One
Thread: The Cherished One

...do remember my agreement with everyone when having these little conversations. There is no judgment on my end of things nor any expectations on my part. You are free to believe what you wish.

A message of Hope… [link to www.godlikeproductions.com]
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 186930
Canada
03/22/2007 01:43 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: To the children of God....
Hint* Predestination

But you see, I stay clear of the subject because it cause’s division with some and it is one of the things that cause people to “think” we are different from them and them not understanding The Love of God, nor the fact that each and every life has meaning. God has different vessels for different things friends, but this is quite obvious if one thinks about everyone’s differencing life experiences.

 Quoting: The Cherished One


Michael I appreciate your desire to gently season your words with grace and not to bring an offense.

But I have a different calling, mine is to present the Rock of offense that brings division. And like Christ also has commanded.."Let the dead bury the dead, you follow Me" Some have compromised to bring unity and not division. But even though Christ prayed for unity in His disiples, He knew that He would also bring division at the same time. I don't worry about division when the Truth is to be spoken. There is a difference in arguing about things such as endless geneologies and debating the purpose and will of God for mankind. There is a difference with being entangled in the concerns of this world such as controversies, and thre is a difference in speaking the truth of the gospel of Christ. If it wasn't for those called of God who didn't care about winning my friendship but were more concerned with speaking the Truth to my soul, then I would have remained without any spiritual growth. Iron sharpens iron, and divisions are necessary,,

1 Corinthians 11
19 No doubt there have to be differences among you to show which of you have God's approval.

But I am not looking to start arguements, we should be able to present our differences among each other and test the spirits without taking anything to an emotionally charged personal level. It needs to be realized that we are not all at the same level of scriptural understanding in the body, but we are all subject to the Truth.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 210680
United States
03/22/2007 05:59 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: To the children of God....
AC 186930. . .
I daresay that all this you've been quoting sounds like what's called Universalism (flavored with a little Manifest Sons, no less), and takes us right back to the serpent's original lie of "You will not surely die."
I will continue to read through your posts, though.

The disciples asked Jesus how they can know the time of His coming and the end, and the first thing He said was "Take heed that no one deceives you."

Jesus mentioned hell substantially more often than heaven. I don't think that's insignificant.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 160123
United States
03/22/2007 06:56 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: To the children of God....
Thank you most kindly for these words. I was just crying terribly as my husband is dying of brain cancer and the saddness of it all is just more than I can handle anymore. So while my 10 year old daughter is on an overnight retreat with her pony club, it all came out. All the emotions I keep bottled in for fear of upsetting her any more than she already is, they came pouring out. Feeling disraught from it all I came accross this at Godlike Productions(plenty of us lonely souls here on this website)
So thanks for these comforting words. I just wonder how this is all going to come about?
Any more words like this? I feel like this is for me to read and ingest.
Thanks
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 194356


When the luminous cross appears in the sky, have your husband look at it with faith, and he will be healed. God bless!
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 194356
United States
03/22/2007 08:28 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: To the children of God....
Thank you. I pray he will be here still.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 186930
Canada
03/22/2007 10:37 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: To the children of God....
AC 186930. . .
I daresay that all this you've been quoting sounds like what's called Universalism (flavored with a little Manifest Sons, no less), and takes us right back to the serpent's original lie of "You will not surely die."
I will continue to read through your posts, though.

The disciples asked Jesus how they can know the time of His coming and the end, and the first thing He said was "Take heed that no one deceives you."

Jesus mentioned hell substantially more often than heaven. I don't think that's insignificant.
 Quoting: MuadDib987


I hate to place a label on it as labels in the past have painted the entire crowd with the same brush. But if Universalism means that All men will eventually be saved then that is what I believe.

The wages of sin is death. I am not denying that, but if Jesus said that death was meant to mean burning in hellfire eternally, then how could He have made a payment for the sin of the world, and not be burning in hell eternally. If He has made sufficient payment with His own life for all sin by becoming sin and hell had no power over Him, then how is the payment made.

I am not disagreeing that there is a symbolic lake of fire either, but it is not eternal as we understand eternal. There is a purpose in the lake of fire, and that is the same purpose as why gold is purified in fire.

I was saved, born again in 1979. For 2 years I never knew what a born again christian was. I called on the name of Jesus one night while I was alone in my cell. The Lord led me for two years until I came into a small Spirit filled church. For the next ten years of sitting in many different churches I thought I had to maintain this salvation I had been given. For the first two years I never even knew I was saved, (but I knew I was different than I was before inside) In the first two years, I didn't know I was saved because I didn't know what saved was. I didn't know I was a Christian, because I never went to church and I thougt that christians were those who attended to church. Then about 15 years ago I was given a revelation of God's grace and how no matter what i did, His grace could not fail me, At that time The lord spoke to me about not speaking about hellfire as that wasn't how He could draw men to Him. Even though I knew that the Lord didn't want me to speak regarding this but wanted men to understand His love instead, I still believed that hell was the penalty mankind received for rejecting His love. I studied about hellfire and could still justify in my learnings that hellfire was biblical. But last year the lord brought a deeper revelation to me regarding hellfire doctrine after about six months pf studing and praying and seeking Him for what His Truth was on this.

There are many good teachers out there that have spent great efforts translating scripture and also seeking the Lord on this.

If anyone is wanting to dig into this topic deeper, there is some good websites that teach on the many doctrines that have been cemented in our minds from the church.

But like I said this is something that you will have to receive from The Spirit and continue in researching and prayer. It took me at leadt 6 months of studying and praying and comparing scripture to finally come to this agreement.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 186930
Canada
03/22/2007 01:35 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: To the children of God....
THE LAKE OF FIRE

I believe every word that the Bible says about the lake of fire; I don't believe what Rome says about it, nor what the apostate Churches say about it, nor what tradition says about it; but I certainly believe what the Bible says about it.

The teaching concerning the lake of fire does not appear anywhere in Scripture except in the book of Revelation where it is spoken of in the following passages: Rev. 14:10-11; 19:20; 20:10; 20:13-15 and 21:8. This last passage definitely states, "But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolators, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone: which is the second death."

There should be no question remaining as to the certainty of this lake of fire; neither should there be any doubt as to the awful consequence of having to be cast into it. These Scriptures with their dreadful foreboding should be a fearful warning to all unthinking and foolish people who, because of their love for the world, the flesh, and the devil, have dared to ask why we should serve God now if all are going to be saved eventually. Such people have no love for God nor fear of God, and they manifest by what they say that their professed serving of God is only a pretense, arising - not from any true love for Him - but from fear of punishment. If there were no prospect of hell these would promptly tell God to go to hell and they would, themselves, go to the devil. It is not thus with those who truly love God, for they serve not from fear, but from pure love and devotion. Remove punishment completely from the universe, and they would still serve God with all their hearts.

Because of the gross misunderstanding of almost all people concerning the lake of fire, I would like to draw your attention to three words found in the passage quoted above. "But the fearful, and unbelieving, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which BURNS with FIRE and BRIMSTONE: which is the second death."

The word BURN means combustion, or to consume. To consume does not mean to annihilate, for there is no such thing as annihilation in the absolute sense. When fire consumes a log in your fireplace it does not destroy any of the elements within the log, it merely changes their form. Combustion is the process by which chemicals combine to form new chemicals. For example: a tree might be cut down, sawed into fire wood, and burned. When the wood is burning the heat causes the chemicals of which the wood is composed to vaporize, mixing with the oxygen in the air to form new chemicals, including water and the gas carbon dioxide. So what was formerly a tree is no longer identified as the form of a tree, but the substance thereof is now simply CHANGED into a DIFFERENT FORM and exists in its new form within the atmosphere as water, carbon dioxide, etc. Thus, to bum, means to CHANGE. Furthermore, it is interesting to note that fire does not burn down; it always burns up; it seeks the highest level. And all that it consumes "goes up in smoke," to exist in a new form in a higher dimension. Even if you take a pan of water and place it over a fire, before long the water will take on the property of the fire and will begin to go up in steam. To burn means to CHANGE, and the change is always UPWARD in its motion.

FIRE is the heat and light that you feel and see when something burns. It takes heat to start a fire, but once the fire is started it produces heat that keeps the process going. Thus, fire is really HEAT and LIGHT. In my study of the lake that burns with fire and brimstone I was very much helped and impressed by the understanding given by Charles Pridgeon and I would like to quote from his scholarly work on the subject of BRIMSTONE. He says: "The Lake of Fire and Brimstone signifies a fire burning with brimstone; the word 'brimstone' or sulphur defines the character of the fire. The Greek word THEION translated 'brimstone' is exactly the same word THEION which means 'divine.' Sulphur was sacred to the deity among the ancient Greeks; and was used to fumigate, to purify, and to cleanse and consecrate to the deity; for this purpose they burned it in their incense. In Homer's Iliad (16:228), one is spoken of as purifying a goblet with fire and brimstone. The verb derived from THEION is THEIOO, which means to hallow, to make divine, or to dedicate to a god (See Liddell and Scott Greek-English Lexicon, 1897 Edition). To any Greek, or any trained in the Greek language, a 'lake of fire and brimstone' would mean a 'lake of divine purification.' The idea of judgment need not be excluded. Divine purification and divine consecration are the plain meaning in ancient Greek. In the ordinary explanation, this fundamental meaning of the word is entirely left out, and nothing but eternal torment is associated with it" -end quote.

I realize that the above thoughts define the subject very briefly, but let us summarize the meanings thus: BURN means combustion; to change the form of. FIRE means heat and light. BRIMSTONE means divine. Putting these three together can we not see that the lake burning with fire and brimstone is, actually, DIVINE HEAT AND LIGHT PRODUCING A CHANGE! Is such a process eternal? All the laws of nature shout that it is not!

More than 2500 years ago the Holy Spirit warned the wicked inhabitants of Jerusalem that God would kindle a fire at Jerusalem's gates which would devour her palaces. "But if you will not hearken unto Me ... then will I kindle a fire in the gates thereof, and it shall devour the palaces of Jerusalem, and it shall not he quenched" (Jer. 17:27). Did not God say this fire "shall NOT BE QUENCHED?" This prophecy was fulfilled and the fire did occur a few years later and it did destroy all the houses of Jerusalem (Jer. 52:13). Since God said no person or thing would "quench" this fire, did that mean that it would burn for ever? Since it accomplished the work it was sent to do, and since it is NOT BURNING TODAY, it obviously went out by itself after accomplishing its purpose!

Unquenchable fire is not eternal fire - it is simply fire that cannot be put out until it has consumed or changed everything it is possible for it to change! It then simply goes out, for there is nothing more to burn. Yet I hear the preachers ranting and raving about poor souls being cast into bell fire where "their worm dies not, and the fire is not quenched" and this, we are told, means eternal, unending torment. How foolish, illogical, and deceptive! Such a view contradicts the plain meaning of the term "unquenchable" and its use in the Word of God.

Are the judgments of God permanent? Isaiah says, "When Your judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness" (Isa. 26:9). And Mat. 12:20 says, "A bruised reed shall He not break, and smoking flax shall He not quench, till He send forth judgment unto victory." Judgment, therefore, is not an eternal condition, but it is given to produce that victory. Judgments of themselves do not save anyone, but they are used by God to bring one to one's self, to effect a change of attitude and will, to consume away the stubbornness and rebellion of men. Punishment by fire is a beneficent one. "Our GOD is a consuming fire" (Heb. 12:29).

The basic purpose of this divine fire of God is to cleanse, purify, purge, temper and change. It is to rid of impurities, of filth, of undesirable elements. There is no better way to deal with filth than to deal with it by fire. The punishment by penal fire leads back to the beginning of things. The final work of God in this world will be the destruction of the world (order) by penal fire. That will change all things. That will melt all the elements, so that no man can tell you where his original grab was. It will burn up all the governments, institutions, systems, and fruitage of the carnal mind. It will melt all the customs, cultures, traditions, and practices of society and make of this earth a new earth wherein dwells righteousness. Every man's work will eventually be tested in this fire. The fire will try every man's work of what sort it is. If you and I build into our walls wood, hay, and stubble, that fire will find it out, and the wall will come tumbling down.

When God turns on the HEAT, the BLAZING LIGHT OF HIS SPIRIT AND WORD - some things begin to change! The fire is never sent to destroy the PERSON, but to purge out all that hinders and separates him from his God, to consume the pride, arrogance, hostility, defiance, and rebellion of the flesh, the carnal mind, that He might then be wooed and drawn by the Holy Spirit unto the Father of Spirits and live.

More than three centuries ago when the Black Plague swept through London, England, more than 68,000 men, women, and children were sickened with the putrid fever, suffered nameless agonies, passed into delirium, sometimes with convulsions, and then died. Before the end of the terrible nightmare of anguish and death, what was thought to be an even greater tragedy occured. The city caught fire, the whole heavens were ablaze as the Great Fire destroyed more than 13,200 homes and 89 churches. Most of the city, which was built largely of wood, lay in ashes. Wonder of wonders! As soon as the last dying embers cooled and the smoke cleared, the inhabitants of the city discovered that the Plague had been stayed! Not another person died of the epidemic. The Plague never returned. The fire had killed the bacteria-carrying fleas and rats that caused the Plague. It took a fire to do it!

Fire is a great cleanser, purifier, and changer. We all know that a horse must be broken, that is, its will must be broken before it is of any practical use to man. God put that will in the horse, but it must be broken and made to conform to the will of man. Just as surely did God put the will in man, BUT IT MUST BE BROKEN and we will benefit by the very process of breaking. Man may do a lot of crying and wailing, but when he is broken to HIS will, what a wonderful condition it is. God may take man over some rough places, even through the lake of fire and brimstone, but the love of God will break every man to His will. If you think the Kingdom of God is rosewater, or eau-de-cologne, you are mistaken. You cannot war on the devil with that. You cannot war on the carnal minds of men with that. You have to make war on the world, the flesh, and the devil with a sword sharper than any twoedged sword. You have to make war on the carnal mind with fire, divine fire that must burn up every inherent altar of Baal, and lick up the very dust around.

Make no mistake! OUR GOD is a consuming fire! He is man's "horse breaker" and He will break you, precious friend of mine, and bring you to the foot of the cross of Jesus no matter how hot He has to build the fire around you! Even if long ages of fiery judgment and tormenting darkness fall upon you, they will last no longer than till the Great Fire of God has melted all arrogance into humility, and all that is self has died in the bloody sweat and all-saving cross of the Christ, which will never give up its redeeming power till sin and sinners have no more a name among the creatures of God.

 Quoting: J. Preston Eby
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 181321
United States
03/22/2007 02:20 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: To the children of God....
Hello friends..

Been at work and I'm in the middle of helping a friend with there computer "issues" at the moment, but I'm listening.

The wind sounds "strange" again today.....hmmmmmm
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 181321
United States
03/22/2007 02:22 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: To the children of God....
typo...that would be "their" computer problems...
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 186930
Canada
03/22/2007 07:34 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: To the children of God....
THE SECOND DEATH

The book of Revelation is a book of symbols. In the introduction to this marvelous book the beloved John explains, "The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto Him, to show unto His servants things which must shortly come to pass; and He sent and signified it by His angel unto His servant John" (Rev. 1:1). The word "signified" is from the Greek SEMAINO meaning to indicate or communicate by means of signs and symbols. The meanings of all the symbols of the Revelation are given, either in the book itself, or elsewhere in the Scriptures.

The first things John beheld when in Spirit was One like unto the Son of man, standing in the midst of seven golden candlesticks, holding seven stars in His right hand. The One like unto the Son of man is identified as the resurrected and glorified Lord, for this One says, "I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: I am He that lives, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore" (Rev. 1:10, 17-18). The other symbols of that first vision are interpreted as follows: "The mystery of the seven stars which you saw in My right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels (messengers) of the seven Churches: and the seven candlesticks which you saw are the seven Churches" (Rev. 1:20). Children in school learn what we call definitions. A definition is an explanatory statement which tells us exactly what a certain thing is, as "an island is a tract of land completely surrounded by water."

God also gives us definitions in His Word. He tells us exactly what certain things are. And in the Scripture just quoted He has told us exactly what the seven stars and the seven candlesticks are. Those are God's definitions. And in Rev. 20:14 God tells us exactly what the SECOND DEATH is. "And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. THIS IS THE SECOND DEATH." Now let me make this a little plainer. Definitions of men can be given backward. For instance, the definition, "An island is a tract of land completely surrounded by water," can be given thus: "A tract of land completely surrounded by water is an island." This is but another way of stating the same fact. It does not, in any way, change the meaning. Now let us try this on the definition of the second death. The Bible states it thus: "Death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. THIS IS the second death." Now let us turn this around for clarity. "The second death IS death and hell cast into the lake of fire." Therefore we have exactly the same meaning either way it is stated.

What is the second death? It is the first death and hell cast into the lake of fire! This fact is very IMPORTANT. The second death is not merely the lake of fire. The second death is not men being tortured for ever in the lake of fire. The Holy Spirit has made it very simple and plain. The second death is the first death and hell CAST INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE. That is the Holy Spirit's definition, not mine. Can we now open the eyes of our understanding to see that everything cast into the lake of fire pertains to DEATH? Death itself is cast into the lake of fire. Hell, the realm of the dead, is cast into the lake of fire. And those whose names are not written in the Book of Life, those who are dead, in trespasses and in sins, who inhabit hell, are cast into the lake of fire. That is the end of death and hell and sin, for God shall destroy death in the lake of fire, He shall burn up hell in the lake of fire, and He shall consume sin and rebellion in the lake of fire.

How I long to see the end of sin and death and hell! The time is coming, praise His name! when God's Kingdom shall be All in All, and there shall be neither sin, nor sinners, nor death, nor hell. It is clear that God does not destroy men in the lake of fire, nowhere does it say that, for that would be a contradiction of terms. How can you destroy death by creating death? How can you abolish death by bringing men under the power of eternal death from which there is no escape? Oh, no, it is not men who are destroyed in the lake of fire - it is SIN and DEATH and HELL that are destroyed. "And the last enemy that shall be destroyed is death" (I Cor. 15:26). Thus, the lake of fire is nothing more nor less than THE DEATH OF DEATH!

The following words by Ray Prinzing give fresh insight into this wonderful truth: "The offence of the first Adam brought all men under the sentence of death for sin. Hence presently our mortal bodies are in a state of dying, while our minds need to be freed from minding the things of the flesh, to mind the things of the Spirit. The act of disobedience of Adam brought forth death. Now, the obedience and work of righteousness of the last Adam also brings forth a death for every man. The question arises, Is the SECOND DEATH the same kind of death as the first? Many people think that it is a repetition of the first, and that the results are the same, while its action is more severe and cruel, and destructive, being by fire. And some Christians add very sorrowfully, 'and from this second death there is no resurrection, it is an endless torment in agony,' BUT NOT SO! For God's seconds are never duplicates of the first, they are always better, higher, and more powerful than the firsts, and used to counter-balance all the action of the firsts, and MUCH MORE - He always saves the best until last.

"All Bible statements prove that the two deaths are absolutely UNALIKE, and that the two are opposite and antagonistic. The second death undoes all the work of the first death in the same manner that the last Adam undid all the work of the first Adam. Not to nullify the purpose being wrought out by the plan of God in the firsts, but to bring a release from the firsts in a MUCH MORE manner of majesty and glory and power and scope of coverage, into the greater and glorious things of God. Creation was made subject to vanity for a purpose! Sin was allowed for wise ends, but when those ends have been secured it will have to cease to exist. The purpose is not nullified, but the means whereby the purpose has been executed shall be done away. Discipline is a means to an end, but not an end in itself, it leads up to the 'AFTERWARDS YIELDING THE PEACEABLE FRUIT OF RIGHTEOUSNESS.'

"The first Adam died to God and righteousness, and became alive unto sin. The last Adam died unto sin (Rom. 6:10), and lives unto God, and so fulfills all righteousness. The first made all men sinners, the last makes all men righteous. The lives and the deaths of the two Adams are thus greatly contrasting the one to the other. The FIRST DEATH was a transition from life to death, the SECOND DEATH is a transition from corruption to incorruption, from mortality to immortality. Transformed from the carnal mind to the spiritual mind, which is life and peace, which transformation is wrought by a dying out to the one realm, to come alive to the higher realm. Because - the second death is prepared to purge out and burn away sin and its results, and so doing cleanse all of God's universe.

"Death came as an enemy, the fruitage of an act of disobedience that turned man away from God and into the realm of carnality, minding self and flesh. Now God makes death overcome itself. It is by death that death is rendered powerless, and there arises an upspringing, a new life. It takes death to destroy death, and thus Christ 'did taste death for every man' - 'that through death He might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; and deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage' (Heb. 2:9,14-15). Since we are all under the effects of the first death, it is appointed unto us to die once more - not physical death, we are already in a state of mortality - but now a dying out to this present death state. We conquer this death of the carnal mind by dying to it - only God could use such a process bringing victory, but praise God, He is destroying the first death with the second death!

"All the Crucifixion, our identification with the cross of Christ, must first be accepted by faith as a fact, and then the working of it in and through us is a process. If it is done now, through our yieldedness to the call and the claims of Christ upon us, we won't have to face it later, in what is called 'the lake of fire,' which is the second death. The passing through that lake of divine purification will thoroughly purge out the last remaining fragments of the rebellion and waywardness of man, till the mystery of iniquity is no more, and then the carnal mind being abolished, death is no more" -end quote. It is true that some men are cast into the processing of the lake of fire. But what a disreputable lot!

"...the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone: which is the second death." These are men saturated with the power of the first death - dead in trespasses and in sins, sold under sin, slaves to every devilish passion, possessed of corrupt and perverse natures, obsessed with every evil device, unrelentingly driven by the spirit of the world, the flesh, and the devil. And nothing God has done has yet broken these stubborn wills or brought these men to repentance. The wages of sin has not broken them. The harvest of evil has not broken them. Hell has not broken them. The tender mercies of the Lord have not broken them. The Spirit has faithfully told us of a second death into which unbelieving and incorrigibly wicked men shall surely go. They go there with death and with hell. The second death will be an experience and a period of time similar to this first death we are now experiencing, but much more terrible and severe than anything we now know. The penalty of sin is very great. The processes of God to break the resistance of willfully wicked men are extremely severe. Not only in this present age do they smite us, but in that second death which is to come. It can only be described as the "lake of fire." This terrible death is reserved for those who have not profited from the previous judgments and still need further correction to subdue them to the will of God. When the process is complete, and the last sinner has emerged from the discipline with a broken and contrite spirit, having learned the lessons of the awful fruit of man's "own way," fully yielding to the Lordship of our Saviour, then at last shall be fulfilled the beautiful promise: "And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself shall be with them, and be their God. And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be NO MORE DEATH, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. And He that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make ALL THINGS new. And He said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful" (Rev. 21:3-5).

Whatever we hold as the nature of the death state, may we let this truth sink deep into our hearts: DEATH IS TO BE ABOLISHED. The ringing declaration, "The LAST enemy that shall be destroyed is death" (I Cor. 15:26), overthrows the whole structure of accepted, but unproved, theology which shuts up the mass of the human race in "eternal death." When the "last" enemy is abolished it is self-evident that none remains. Those wretched religionists who demand the endlessness of death, who argue for eternal torment in the lake of fire, the second death, do err, not knowing the Scriptures nor the power of God. The lake of fire MUST end because death and hell are cast into it, which is the second death, and in the end THERE SHALL BE N-O M-O-R-E D-E-A-T-H.

No more death! No more first death. No more second death. No more of any kind of death. To say there is no more death is to say that there are no more sinners, for sinners are DEAD MEN, dead in trespasses and in sins. To say there is no more death is to say that God has not "burned up" all the wicked and left them dead, or in hell, for as long as any creature of God is in a state of death, death is not abolished. To say there is no more death is to say there is no more hell, for hell is "the realm of the dead." To say there is no more death is to say there is no more a lake of fire, for the lake of fire IS the second DEATH. To say there is no more death is to say there is no more sin, for "the wages of sin is DEATH." What a universe of truth is contained in three little words: NO MORE DEATH! This grand truth seems to be almost unknown in the Church systems. Although the very climax and fulfillment of all revelation, it has been eclipsed by human perversions. As a result the God of the popular Churches has lost the essential attributes of Deity. He is like the foolish man who started to build but could not finish. Man's theology brings nothing to a conclusion. It attains no definite goal. Sin, suffering, and insubjection are never conquered. Death is never destroyed. Redemption is never fully secured. God is compelled to work an eternal miracle in order to maintain a never-ending eyesore in His creation, once so subject, so sinless, and so good. He has to eternally keep His great foot on the lid of hell; for if even one of the devils should get out there would be hell everywhere! But death in all its forms shall be destroyed until it shall be said, "There is no more death!" Jesus is Conqueror! Then shall every creature in the universe bow and in glad chorus sing, "O death, where is they sting? O grave, where is your victory? The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. But thanks be unto God, which gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ!" (I Cor. 15:55-57).


 Quoting: J.Preston Eby
The Cherished One  (OP)

User ID: 181321
United States
03/22/2007 10:14 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: To the children of God....
Greetings again all


He said to us…Peace at Hand brings Glory to ALL

Dear souls, though I enjoy and appreciate your posts and such you really need to understand what is going on here… lol… Now we do Love you ALL though, hence the reason to get back on track here, friends.

The Glory is upon us beloveds and it is about to be revealed for MANY to SEE…it’s SHOW TIME!

Would you all like to know how we know this? Simple really… One word : “Experiencing”

Some of us are experiencing it RIGHT now and have been for a few days.

But didn’t some of you understand this part?

Quote..

I AM..

ALWAYS

AS YOU..FROM NOW ON.. WALK IN MY GLORY

FOR I HAVE GIVEN MY GLORY

end quote


"Past-tense" you see, we did tell you it was a different kind of Prophetic WORD, did we not? It’s what some may call a decree, as in: one of the eternal purposes of God, by which events are foreordained…It’s beginning dear souls or should I say, some are already “basking in the Glory” as we speak…oh yes…some of you REALLY need to think about that one for a moment!

Do you even understand what I have just told you dear souls? I such hope you read that message of Hope…yes, I really do.

So some would ask , am I “call it”? I would say, go listen to Him and go listen to the Wind if you can, listen with all your heart dear souls. Never-the-less, ALL will SEE what we have shared shortly. It’s time for action friends…the people need this, God desires it, so be it.


Our Love to you all

Michael

The Cherished One
Thread: The Cherished One

...do remember my agreement with everyone when having these little conversations. There is no judgment on my end of things nor any expectations on my part. You are free to believe what you wish.

A message of Hope… [link to www.godlikeproductions.com]
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 208799
United States
03/22/2007 11:28 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: To the children of God....
Hello friends..

Been at work and I'm in the middle of helping a friend with there computer "issues" at the moment, but I'm listening.

The wind sounds "strange" again today.....hmmmmmm
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 181321

michael, a strange wind is blowing
where the teachers must allow themselves to be taught
by those who seem to "not know"
it's a strange wind
but, necessary
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 208799
United States
03/22/2007 11:29 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: To the children of God....
the glory is God's Holy Spirit
He has always been with us
but, we had not perception of this
Angel Helper nli
User ID: 194356
United States
03/23/2007 12:11 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: To the children of God....
Does the mean He is calling us to use our spiritual gifts with faith? As in when Jesus said to the diciples that we would do what he had done (miracles) and more? Is this what is meant by His Glory is on us? And that He is in us as we are in Him? I am trying to put this all together as I have had a calling for a long time, but have had so many things go wrong in my life. I was made to understand that it was to keep me from becomming the person I was to become, but God has allowed these trials to strengthen me for my journey ahead. He took what was "bad" in my life and used it to better me instead of "brake" me. When I was young, I could not understand "why"? Now I do. I see the faults that needed correcting before I could be used to help others in a more mature way.
It is all about our brothers and sisters and helping everyone get onboard as far as understanding of the times we are living in and how they are a changing.
Thanks so much C.O. I have enjoyed your posts alot.
They have triggered things in my spirit. I guess that was the whole purpose anyways.
Thanks and for some reason I feel we will be sharing alot.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 208799
United States
03/23/2007 12:22 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: To the children of God....
when Jesus healed or helped people
He was "Moved" with compassion
when you feel that compassion
move with it
and pray the prayer of faith
and speak the words of faith
to those who need to hear
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 194356
United States
03/23/2007 12:43 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: To the children of God....
I can honestly say that I have been given alot of this compassion,,,,and you will not believe me as to how it happened. I was a very young and ignorant girl when it happened, I was scared and selfish. I did the wrong thing and had made a very wrong choice. I will leave it at that, but instead of our Father in Heaven giving me a punishment, he gave me a very large measure of compassion and empathy so that i would know how others feels. Now I try not to hurt anyone as I feel the pain very deeply.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 186930
Canada
03/23/2007 01:25 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: To the children of God....
TORMENTED IN THE PRESENCE OF THE LAMB

The words torment, tormented, tormentors, and torments occur twenty-one times in the King James version, and all in the New Testament. Three of these are in connection with the lake of fire. Let me give you the quotations. "The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of His indignation; and he shall be TORMENTED WITH FIRE AND BRIMSTONE IN THE PRESENCE OF THE HOLY ANGELS (MESSENGERS) AND IN THE PRESENCE OF THE LAMB: and the smoke of their torment ascends up for ever and ever (Greek: unto the ages of the ages): and they have no rest day nor night..." (Rev. 14:10-11).

"And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever (Greek: unto the ages of the ages - see Part One of this series -'Just What Do You Mean ... ETERNITY!')" (Rev. 20:10).

Notice please, in both instances, the subjects are tormented with fire and brimstone, and we have previously established what the fire and brimstone are. But Rev. 14:10 sheds further light, those are also tormented by and through another agency, which in reality sums up and constitutes the fire and brimstone, and that agency is THE PRESENCE OF THE LAMB and the holy angels, or messengers. What an amazing divine paradox! The Lamb - precious embodiment of the very character of innocence, patience, meekness, gentleness, holiness, sacrifice, and redemption - being made TORMENT to men for whom He died! The very thought seems incongruous. You see, dear ones, IT IS NOT THE NATURE of a lamb to torture anyone. It is simply not in the nature of the lamb to want to hurt in any way. Really! What could a lamb do to torture anyone? It has no capability for such a thing. And so it is with the LAMB OF GOD! The Lamb of God has no desire, no ability to inflict torture in any way - His desire is entirely redemptive - that men might have life and have it more abundantly!

I cannot imagine One with the nature of a lamb packing poor lost souls like brick into a kiln, standing there blowing the fires of hell through them for ever. Such a grotesque representation charges the blessed Redeemer with crimes more heartless than those of Adoph Eichmann. Ah, the torment comes not from the Lamb. The torment lies within the bosoms of the tormented. The Scripture does not say that the Lamb torments them! If you think it does, you are mistaken. It states that THEY ARE TORMENTED IN THE PRESENCE of the Lamb. What a thought! TORMENTED IN THE PRESENCE. The Lamb is merely present. He does not torment. The condition is within themselves. Because they are wrong and sinful in nature, wicked in their hearts, selfish in their minds, and impure in their desires, they are CONDEMNED IN THEIR CONSCIENCES by the very PRESENCE of the pure, holy, sinless, selfless, sacrificing Lamb of God. Hell is at its fiercest when it sees heaven, and not till then.

When these realize the presence, or the character of the Lamb, they are tortured in their consciences, for in the Light of the Lamb they see themselves for the wretched little devils they are. The very PRESENCE of TRUTH torments the deceitful and the liar. The very PRESENCE of HOLINESS torments the immoral and corrupt. The very PRESENCE of LOVE is torment to the mean and hateful. The PRESENCE of Him who is the PRINCE OF PEACE is torture to those who live by violence and the sword. The very PRESENCE of the LIFE OF THE LAMB is the most awful torment and torture to all the opposing forces, both deceiver and deceived, until all the deceit and hostility has been taken out of them, and they come to KNOW THE LORD. When these have been exposed for a sufficient time to the PRESENCE of the Lamb, the Lamb will overcome them; His love and power will conquer their hearts; the rebellion and waywardness will be taken from them and they will at last ENJOY the Presence of the Lamb!

When the maniac of Gadara encountered the Christ the devils cried out, saying, "Have You come here to TORMENT US before the time?" (Mat. 8:29). IT WAS TORMENT FOR A POSSESSED PERSON TO BE IN THE PRESENCE OF THE CHRIST. It is torment for any enemy of God to be ushered into the presence of God. Anyone who is unacquainted with God and happens to come into a group who are worshipping and praising God, is in torment all the time he is there. The sooner such a person can leave, the better he likes it. Such an atmosphere is hell for that person! Why is it so hard to get your unsaved loved ones and friends to go to Church? They are unhappy and miserable in a Church meeting! They are tormented when with the saints worshipping God. They are estranged from God, citizens of the devil's kingdom, and cannot relate to the praises of God, the moving of the Holy Spirit, giving tithes, and the Word that is ministered. This all makes them unhappy and uncomfortable.

Peter Marshall said that when the apostles preached the Gospel there were either riots or regeneration. The fact of the matter is that in most cases there were both, for the same Gospel melted some hearts and turned others to stone. People were led either to faith in Jesus Christ or they were stirred to the most violent animosity and enmity. Jesus Christ has always been either a stone of stumbling or the sure foundation stone. We build upon it or we stumble over it and are crushed by it. Riots or regeneration! Joy unspeakable and full of glory or torment! A person under deep conviction is tormented. Tormented with what? He is tormented with the fire of God's holy presence, the fire of His penetrating, burning Word. He has no peace or rest, day or night. His conscience troubles him continually. When you and I were under deep conviction for our sins and past life we were tormented by the Holy Spirit, the presence of God. And we had no rest day or night. When we were finally broken by the Holy Spirit's dealing and repented and confessed those sins to Jesus, we cried often and shed many bitter tears of remorse and regret. THAT, my friend, is exactly what the rebellious will do in the ages to come as God deals with "every man in his own order." There was no short cut to salvation for us, and there will be none for them. In some cases it took months and years, sometimes a lifetime, of preaching and dealings to win our hearts to the Lord. And I am sure that it will take much preaching and many dealings along with the convicting power of the Holy Spirit to win the ignorant, disobedient, and defiant masses who lived and died in this world outside of Christ.

A brother in the Lord shared this illustration of wicked people being tormented in the presence of the Lamb: "A few years ago, we often preached to ALL the women in the state penitentiary for women. They were forced to sit and listen while we sang about Jesus, talked about Jesus and preached about Him. Some wept, some stared, and some faces showed bitter hatred toward us. Others seemed to writhe and twist in mental anguish and physical torment. Why? Because they were forced to listen. There was no escape" -end quote.

Suppose a few filthy, vile men and a few immoral women from some house of prostitution were forced to sit in the midst of a large congregation of singing, shouting, worshipping saints. This certainly would he torment to most of them. They would be tortured in the flames of the blazing glory of God in that place! If they were not held in their seats by force, most of them would rush out of there. I have been in meetings where I witnessed three responses to the glorious manifestation of the Lord's presence. First, the saints who loved the Lord rejoiced and adoringly worshipped. Some who were not Christians, but whose hearts were tender toward the Lord, came under deep conviction and, weeping and broken, gave themselves into the loving hands of Jesus. But others, filled with self, haters of righteousness, I have seen jump up and literally run out of a meeting - TORMENTED IN THE PRESENCE OF THE LAMB! Sure, they would rush, even run to get away from the convicting power of the Holy Ghost! I have seen it, and so have you.

To the unsaved, HIS GLORY is a LAKE OF FIRE AND BRIMSTONE - divine, cleansing, purging, purifying, consuming fire! In ages yet unborn God shall expose ALL MEN to the sweet abiding presence of the Lamb. They will come under such severe processings, under such profound conviction that they will be tormented and have no rest day or night until they finally yield. And when they do, many fountains of tears will flow with weeping, praying, and calling upon the Lord. I believe it! God hasten it!

 Quoting: J.Preston Eby
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 181321
United States
03/23/2007 11:47 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: To the children of God....
Good morning all

Hmmmm some of you are still not understanding what is going on here. Dig deeper and Listen..and please, do be at peace.


I’m working at the moment so I’m not sure what the day will bring as far as being able to post…

One more “clue” for now… What some of you are talking about, we are experiencing at this very moment…Selah

It has to do with, among other things, The Manifestation of The Sons of God at this time, which means NOW. Are you beginning to understand? I sure hope so, so again, be at peace.

Be Blessed dear souls

Michael
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 181321
United States
03/23/2007 01:48 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: To the children of God....
When You Walk With Me
by Susan Cummings

When you walk with Me, you have nothing to fear.

I am with you always, and am leading you, as we walk together. Why then
do you continue to look upon the other things going on around you and
allow your heart to be troubled needlessly? I have not given you any
burden, except Mine. You are not to take upon you things that I have not
brought to you to bear. Do not look around at things that are occurring
around you, but remained yoked with Me in My Rest. I know what I am
doing, and where we are heading.

When you walk with Me, you walk in My Strength.

I am responsible for you, and care for you when you are in My Rest. I
know how to take care of you, and I will work things out for your good.
I know what is best for you, even better than you know, for yourself. I
understand your concerns and your desires. I gave those desires to you.
But I also remind you, that I also told you to leave them with Me, and
do not carry them needlessly. It is time that you remove those burdens
from your shoulders, and walk in My Strength.

When you walk with Me, you have My Wisdom for each step.

I know all things, and I work into all things, My Perfect Will. I cannot
fail. My Word is ever working to bring forth everything that I have
determined for you, in it's course and place. Do not think that this
season is one of only destruction and of failure. I am constructing and
building a new thing concerning you. Walk on, and see what I am bringing
forth, and rest assured that it will surely come forth and it will also
be fully evident of the maturity that I have wrought within you, as you
have walked with Me.

When you walk with Me, you see as I see.

It is in this place of Revelation that I have desired that you would now
stand. I want to open your eyes to all that I see, but it can only come
as you fully surrender to Me, and abide fully in Me. I must have
complete control and I must be able to fashion you as I see fit. As I
see fit, through you, then you will see more clearly. For I will have
taken your will and shaped it into My own. When your will is fully dead,
then I can truly be the Head, and then you will see as I see.

When you walk with Me, then you will walk in My Glory.

I am the Glory. When you and I are in perfect unity, and I can move as I
will through your life, then My Glory can also flow and move through
you, even as I move also with the Father. It is to this depth that I
have brought you, into My Glory. This is the Hour when all who are Mine,
will be found in the depths of My Glory with Me. It is in this place of
Abiding, when your hearts will be one with Mine, and you will walk in My
Light and be without any trace of fear or doubt. For out of My Glory
will come forth all that is needed and necessary for the Days ahead. I
will be your daily bread.

When you walk with Me, then you are truly free.

I have prepared all things for this hour. I am setting Mine free from
all that holds them captive in their minds and hearts. I have made a
way, and it is higher than the natural things or ways. Look at Me, and
walk free. Think upon Me, and stay your minds upon My Word. Wash
yourself in My Word and be clean. Feed upon the Meat of My Word and be
filled. Stand rooted in Me and waver not. Listen to My Voice and find
the True Path. It is as you seek Me, that you will find Me, and walk
with Me where I am, and not as the world does. It is then, that you are
free.

The old is passing away, and behold I have done a new thing, but most
have not entered in. What I have fashioned is now unfolding. Men are
running in fear and their minds are already embattled. But the current
level of the shakings has only been a mere rattle. The great shakings
increasingly come, but men are not prepared. But not so with Mine, for
with Me they will walk and dine. I am in control, and Mine will not
fear. My House will be full, and will stand firm till the end.

I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and all who truly come to Me,
will I not deny. Take heed how you walk, and come and walk with Me. It
is the Hour of Liberty. Do not be as the world will be, but set your
course to walk fully in Me. The World will pass away, and all that you
currently trust in will fail, but I am faithful to the end. You do not
see what I am doing in the earth, but know that it has been given birth.
The rest now follows and the pains do come, but only upon those who have
refused the Son.


-Susan Cummings

3-23-07

3:29 am
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 181321
United States
09/01/2007 11:32 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: To the children of God....
bump
.
User ID: 291638
China
09/01/2007 12:23 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: To the children of God....
Universalism, is an obvious lie when you follow it to its conclusion, and the fact that its greatest adherents seem to blessed with hypernatural ability to compartmentalize scripture, speaks of the wisdom from below.
So what is the ultimate lie of universalism(in contrast directly to the scriptures)? That Helel(satan, heylel, the devil, lucifer etc etc) will ultimately be redeemed after changing heart and attitude, and become a good son of God again.
Sorry , wrong answer, wrong conclusion, wicked lie, arrogant deceit and false prophesy.
God is not mocked, beware promoters of division amongst the brethren and offenders of His little ones.
blimpy
User ID: 162054
United States
09/01/2007 12:28 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: To the children of God....
I FOUND JESUS !!!!!!

now it's my turn to hide....
The Cherished One  (OP)

User ID: 181321
United States
09/01/2007 12:40 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: To the children of God....
Universalism, is an obvious lie when you follow it to its conclusion, and the fact that its greatest adherents seem to blessed with hypernatural ability to compartmentalize scripture, speaks of the wisdom from below.
So what is the ultimate lie of universalism(in contrast directly to the scriptures)? That Helel(satan, heylel, the devil, lucifer etc etc) will ultimately be redeemed after changing heart and attitude, and become a good son of God again.
Sorry , wrong answer, wrong conclusion, wicked lie, arrogant deceit and false prophesy.
God is not mocked, beware promoters of division amongst the brethren and offenders of His little ones.
 Quoting: . 291638



lol, bad day at the office friend?


and who said anything about "Universalism" ?

You might want to read all we have shared here over the years before coming to such an assessment.

Here’s just a few links for you….long read, but well worth it….enjoy!

[link to www.godlikeproductions.com]

[link to www.godlikeproductions.com]

[link to www.godlikeproductions.com]

[link to www.godlikeproductions.com]

[link to www.godlikeproductions.com]






Peace
Thread: The Cherished One

...do remember my agreement with everyone when having these little conversations. There is no judgment on my end of things nor any expectations on my part. You are free to believe what you wish.

A message of Hope… [link to www.godlikeproductions.com]
The Cherished One  (OP)

User ID: 181321
United States
09/01/2007 12:53 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: To the children of God....
Greetings again friends

You know GLP…some of you are always trying to “lump” me into one group of people or another. I believe they call that “stereo typing”, or something to that nature…nice try, but you should REALLY learn of my Heart towards all people… Selah


So relax friends, for I do have only the best intentions and wishes for you all. Of course some of you will not realize this until what we have shared with you all comes to past.

Do remember, what we share with you is personal “Experience’s” with God…do remember that.

Peace
Thread: The Cherished One

...do remember my agreement with everyone when having these little conversations. There is no judgment on my end of things nor any expectations on my part. You are free to believe what you wish.

A message of Hope… [link to www.godlikeproductions.com]





GLP