TWIN PEAKS: THE RETURN - Discuss the past, present and future of all things Twin Peaks

One of Laura Palmer's diary pages was never found. The missing page...and in this new reality/dream in the finale her new name is Carrie Page. Not sure if that was intentional but definitely interesting.

That page was the one Harold Smith had.

I'm talking about the four pages Leland/BOB took and how only three were found in the stall at the sheriff's station.

This is 25 years after Laura was murdered. As far as I know that fourth page wasn't found during the revival.

the missing fourth page can only mean we will have a fourth season.

Some observations in no particular order...

As I mentioned before, I am quite certain Sarah Palmer has been inhabited by none other than Judy, the ancient evil force Gordon Cole mentions. Why else would she start freaking out and stabbing Laura's portrait when Cooper is leading Laura to the White Lodge? The time skipping during the stabbing of Laura's picture scene represents what Judy is doing, splitting the realities. At this moment we hear the noise the Fireman told Cooper to pay attention to in Part 1. The White Lodge seems to be Laura's true home, where she needs to be at that moment instead of being murdered by BOB. But Judy snatches her away into this alternate reality/dream where she is Carrie Page in Odessa, Texas, totally stripped of her memories.

When Carrie/Laura is brought back to her parent's home at the end of Part 18, she hears her mother calling her name just like in the first episode of Twin Peaks, when Sarah is calling for Laura to wake up and go to school. Only this is no longer the Palmer residence, but instead belonging to the Tremonds and previously Chalfonts.

Even though it seems Coop has changed the timeline/reality, Laura's suffering seems necessary, as most messiah characters do. He's "undone" her murder, but her abuse and murder are necessary to reach the point they have in the finale. It has happened, but it also hasn't. The chicken and the egg. "Is it future, or is it past?"

And when Laura hears her mother calling her name, she realizes exactly who and where she is, and screams, recalling all those horrible memories and her purpose. The lights (electricity) goes out, and we are left to wonder...are they stuck in a loop? Or is it possible Coop has brought her to that point to end the reality created by Judy? After all, Laura is "the one." Perhaps it was not her destiny to defeat BOB, but to keep in check the greater evil that is Judy. It seems that evil can not be totally defeated/destroyed by good, only balanced. Which is why the Fireman/White Lodge sent Laura in the first place.

In Andy's vision at Jack Rabbit's Palace Laura is shown flanked by angels, and her angels already had significance in Fire Walk with Me. At the end of the movie she appeared tearful but happy, as if reassured by her purpose in all of this.

Is the disappearance of the light a sign that Laura has defeated the reality Judy has created? That ominous electricity has always represented the Lodge entities. At the end of the episode, it cuts to black. Just a thought.

Some videos for reference:


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Last Edited by Sweetroll Bandit on 09/07/2017 01:12 PM

Some picture links...

How Naido reacts to Cooper:

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Compared to how Diane reacts to Cooper:

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Did anyone else see Sheriff Truman's hat jump up when it seemed like he and Evil Coop were going to shoot each other, but Lucy shot Evil Coop instead?

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The white horse sculpture on Carrie Page's mantle in Odessa, Texas:

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The weird similarities between the "woman" in the nightgown and the old man in the Judy diner:

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And all the weirdness regarding time in Diane's text messages with Evil Coop:

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Crazy thought I had this morning with my coffee...

What if the Mother isn't actually evil, as everyone thinks, and Bob was created by accident in amongst all the eggs being spewed out?

The year moves forward after the bomb goes off and the egg hatches to give us frog-moth, but could this be related to why Cooper asks "What year is this" somehow?

I shall ponder more on this idea.

Last Edited by keybored on 09/05/2017 04:40 AM

Did David Lynch leave a message about the future of Twin Peaks with this song?

Can you spot what is in this video that wasn't in the show...?

[link to www.avclub.com]

I don't think Sarah Palmer was really evil until the frog-moth/frog-roach/BOB-type thing entered her mouth and made her its home. I think Leland was infected with BOB by Sarah. Does that make Laura part BOB as well? (If that was indeed Sarah Palmer that was inhabited by the frog-moth/frog-roach/BOB-type thing).
So many unanswered questions.

Good summary right there!

AH, good one! Hmmmm.. have to think about that one.

And is Little Odessa with Tim Roth as an assassin a coincidence?

It's never really been confirmed that Sarah was the one that frogmoth entered, it's just what everyone assumes.

Bob entered Leland when he was a child and on holiday at his Grandfather's place. Leland let him in.

Somehow I don't think it was just coincidence that this song was used and am even more convinced now that this song is a direct message to us.

The members of The Platter are as follows....

Zola Taylor
Tony Williams
Paul Robi
Herb Reed


and



DRUM ROLL


David Lynch

remembering the Hallelujah exchange there in The Lodge, coupled with the tribal War Whoop. early indications there may be a fundamental problem with Judyism.

Was there any point in TP where they showed real corporate chains up until Richard and Carrie stop at that Valero? Combine that with the "meta" "real" homeowner, no wonder Dale makes Richard breakdown, because he seems to be on Charon's boat with the rest of us.

I don't think it's a coincidence at all. If you remember My Prayer was also played one other time on the show, during Part 8 at the KPJK radio station in 1956 when the Woodsman comes in and kills everyone. He repeats his "this is the water and this is the well..." message over the radio and the creature slips into the girl's mouth as she's lying on her bed.

Last Edited by Sweetroll Bandit on 09/05/2017 02:31 PM

Chromatic's "Shadow," which was performed at the end of the premiere, is equally important and relevant after watching the finale.


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Whoa, are you talking about the dead Becky at 1:30? I don't remember seeing that!

Did Steven kill her before killing himself?

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Ah, nevermind. That picture is from another show called Veronica Mars. She plays a character named Lilly Kane and has a head wound.

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Last Edited by Sweetroll Bandit on 09/05/2017 02:54 PM

Yes, I remembered the earlier playing of it (both in episodes containing the number '8'), and neither time was the song played completely all the way through. On missed the beginning and one missed the end.

Veronica Mars was a good show.

So we still have the mystery of what happened to Becky.

Does anyone have any idea of who the owner of Laura's house was talking to behind the door?


Any thoughts?

Maybe someone from her real-life family because she is the real-life owner of the house.

Or Sarah, or whoever Sarah had hiding in the other Universe or Mother if that is who she is possessed by.

It's still possible that Steven killed Becky or was somehow responsible for her death.

In Part 15 Steven and Gersten are in the woods, and it's clear he's under the influence, panicking about something bad he has done.

Gersten: "Why?"

Steven: "There is no why. I did do it."

Gersten: "No, she did it. She did it."

Steven: "No. I can't. I did it."

Gersten: "No. No, Steven. Steven, stop it. You didn't do anything, okay? You were fucking stoned. What the fuck did she give you? Give me the gun, okay?"

There was also a slow shot focusing on their trailer that seemed pretty ominous. I'm wondering if it happened there, but it seems like Carl and the other residents would've heard it, if she was shot.

The timing of this scene is questionable though. We don't know if it's before or after Becky tells Shelly that Steven has been missing.

In typical Lynch style he leaves us with more questions than answers. I don't think we're supposed to figure it out, we're just supposed to enjoy it. Which I did immensely.

I sure did.

It's not the destination, but the journey that mattes.

Hello Everybody!

I've been - purposely - offline for the last two days. I just wanted to soak in the finale without any outside sources. I've now watched it twice, thought about it a lot, and have a real good feel for what happened. Judging from the number of posts here - along with the fact that I pinned the thread before leaving Sunday at around 7:00pm - I'm guessing that we got attacked by a few trolls. Big surprise, huh?

I'm going to go ahead and guess that some people are NOT happy with the way that it ended. To them I say BOO-FUCKING-HOO! Hopefully, that doesn't include any of you that I love here, but if it does - so be it.

Time travel, sex magick, the death of BOB, the TRUE plans of the Blue Rose Task Force, a further understanding of Judy/Jiao Dai (jiào dé), the revealing of Diane, the revealing of the dreamer(s), the fixing of the original timeline, the "return" of FBI Special Agent Dale Cooper, the "return" of Laura Palmer/Carrie Paige, Tremonds, Chalfonts...

If you're not happy with the way that it ended, what the hell did you want or expect? Did you REALLY want it to end in a way where there is no place left for it to go? I know that I didn't. I LOVED the ending. And the way that we got there. It could be all that there is. It DOES end, in case you didn't notice. OR it could continue from here. It was a brilliant ending.

The first thing that my son said when it was all over was, "what happened to Audrey"? I'm sure that a lot of you are wondering the same thing. But Audrey was a dreamer. Where she was in THAT timeline doesn't really matter now and didn't need to be explained. At least, not at that time. Because THAT timelime was also a dream. It was based on the death of a girl that now NEVER HAPPENED. I believe that Audrey's dreams were a setup so that we could understand Laura's dream.

There's been a universal reset and correction. The past dictates the future. Agent Cooper announced this VERY clearly in the Twin Peaks Sheriff's Department during Part 17. Nothing from the past now matters because nothing is now the same. We'll just have to wait for The Final Dossier by Mark Frost and/or another installment of Twin Peaks in order to know exactly how everything is now. But I guarantee you that it won't be the same. Laura Palmer certainly isn't. Of course, that may all just be a part of Laura's dream. And probably is.

Keep in mind that In the Hindu religion, when The Dream of Shiva ends, and he awakens, this Universe ends.

And with that thought, I'm going to go ahead and start tackling all of this mail. This should be fun...










Heya Diener! Good to see that you dropped by before the start of the finale.










Hello there, Dougie! Yeah, it was nice to see everybody talking and excited before the finale. We'll see how everybody feels now.










Heya Sweetroll! I'm VERY curious to see what you thought of everything that happened. I guess I have to wait for your post-finale post.










Uh-huh. Right at 8:00pm. What a set up question for the trolls. Thanks, Truth Seeker.

To answer your question - one of the best things EVER on television.










Hey alienbaby! Long time no see. Hehehe - at this point on Sunday, I was...somewhere wonderful and strange.










Posted at 8:25pm. So with over an hour and a half left to go on the finale. Do you REALLY think this idiot even watched Twin Peaks: The Return?

The writing was fantastic. Great Characters. GREAT acting. Lynch was onscreen a fraction of the time that all of the Coopers were. You OBVIOUSLY didn't watch the show.

It's sad that fools like this feel a need to express the SAME stupid points over and over to people like us here who don't agree with them. Find something that you LIKE and talk about it. I can't stand Nascar, but the thought of going on a Nascar thread and talking shit about it never enters my mind. Why? Because I have no desire to bash something that others enjoy. And I have other - BETTER - things to do. You obviously don't. And that's sad. REALLY sad.

This was obviously written by the little midget fuck - Michael J. Anderson - or a friend or superfan of his. Why else would they even mention Carnivale?

Go get him, Scooby...












:heswrong:










Thanks, Diane! I couldn't have said it better myself.





















Really? So you're judging the whole thing on what happens in the finale? Didn't you enjoy the ride? I know that I did. It's been fantastic since it started.

There's just WAY too many expectations going into the finale. Not everyone can possibly be happy here. And I'd say that the most important person that needs to be happy is David Lynch. I want him happy so that he gives us more art to think and talk about.










Somebody played some D&D back in the day. They know how to kill trolls.










Wow! You KNOW it was a great ending when you have all of these trolls posting before the finale is even finished. Too funny!

I don't know about anybody else here, but I HATE Hollywood and everything that it stands for. I don't watch television much at all. You can count the movie tickets that I've paid for in the last decade on two hands.

We're the ones that AREN'T "Hollywood media obsessed folks" and that's exactly WHY we love David Lynch. This poster is obviously not too smart if they don't even understand that simple fact.

And again, I find it REALLY sad that they have a need to come here and bash a show that we all love. Stop being such a hater - people like this idiot are exactly what is wrong with this world. I just hope that they wake up before it's too late.










And they are obviously a Chad...












So you're saying that Jiao Dai is Kim Jong-un? Sorry, but I'm pretty sure that Jiao Dai is a little taller. AND a little tougher.













This idiot went and copied the only four bad comments that they could find. They probably posted them themselves. I just popped over there for a second. Everybody is busy talking about it. I couldn't find one negative comment. I'm sure that they're there. But you have to dig for them.

This person has nothing that they like to talk about. No one is their friend. They have to come to THIS thread and spread their hate because they are such a lonely soul. It's fucking sad!










Tell them I second it. And hello GG!










There she is. Heya Morgan!

I guess this is as good a place as any to start talking about it. I'm not sure what you don't understand, though. If you post some questions, I'll be happy to answer them as best I can. But we'll start with the very, very end.

It WAS an ending. Here's some background leading up to it. Because it can be taken more than one way. And I'll present two of them.

After saving Laura Palmer and stopping her from going off with Leo, Ronette and Jacques - which would have resulted in her death at the hands of her father Leland Palmer/BOB - Agent Cooper attempts to lead Laura Palmer home and complete the circle. We hear the sound that Agent Cooper was told to watch out for by The Fireman in the very first scene of Twin Peaks: The Return - the sound of Jiao Dai. Jiao Dai is pissed. Cooper just undid the last 25 years of preparation for the complete taking over and possible annihilation of our world. So Jiao Dai takes Laura Palmer away and sticks her in a different reality/timeline. We even see it played out twice - once at the end of Part 17 and once at the beginning of Part 18. For all we know, Agent Cooper went through the whole process TWICE before realizing that he would have to take a different course - and perhaps, only then, remembering the clues that The Fireman gave him at the beginning of Twin Peaks: The Return.

Now Agent Cooper and his sidekick, Diane, have to traverse time AGAIN by going to the spot where The Fireman told him to go - 430 miles away. That is the point where Cooper will be able to find Laura now that he has saved her from ever having gone in The Waiting Room. But it means jumping to another reality, dimension or timeline - one where they might end up as different people. Cooper and Diane perform their sex magick that allows them to travel through time. This seems to be the same sex magick ritual that brought forth Jiao Dai to begin with. It's a VERY vicious time loop - one that Phillip Jeffries tried to explain by turning the symbol for Jiao Dai into the Owl Cave symbol and then into an infinity symbol. But it's a loop that needs to be taken.

When Agent Cooper wakes up, he has a note to Richard (himself in this new reality) from Linda (Diane in this new reality). So far so good - they are on track with what The Fireman told him would be happening. Cooper manages to find Laura Palmer in this world - though she is now called Carrie Paige - and drives her back home to Twin Peaks, Washington. Only to find out that the old Palmer house has now been taken over by the Tremond/Chalfont gang from The Black Lodge. The circle remains broken.

There are two ways to think about it from here:

a.) The White Lodge has been thwarted by Cooper having been sent to the wrong year. It is much more current than it should be. I believe that Cooper was trying to return Laura to 1989. Either way, The Black Lodge forces are keeping Mother/Jiao Dai safe inside and AWAY from Laura Palmer. Remember, now that Freddie Sykes has taken care of BOB, it's obvious that the golden Laura Palmer orb was originally made to counter Jiao Dai and NOT BOB. Sarah Palmer screams from inside the house and it awakens Laura to who she really is. And the next battle - Twin Peaks: Curtain Call - begins.

b.) The real world IS still turning behind the Palmer house. We saw the beginning of the Pilot and this time Pete goes fishing. Because there is no body of Laura Palmer wrapped in plastic on the beach, things are different. When Cooper arrives at Laura Palmer/Carrie Paige's house in Odessa, Texas, the phone starts ringing. This is actually Laura's alarm clock in her room, which she sleeps through. When Sarah screams Laura's name at the end, she is actually calling her to breakfast - just like in the Pilot. There - in the Pilot - Leland interrupted with the phone call telling Sarah that Laura was dead. And what we just saw at the end was Laura waking up because now she isn't dead. She is in her bed in her bedroom and soon comes downstairs to join her mother for breakfast.

I'm sure that there are multiple other ways to interpret everything. But that's what I'm thinking at the moment happened at the very end.








I'm going to go ahead and post this. And then move on to some other messages. We might as well start talking about all of this and I think I've got some good thoughts to chew on above. You tell me...



Last Edited by BEAST333 on 09/06/2017 01:13 PM

I think its supposed to be DAVID LYNCH Directing the scene.

Okay. I've eaten some dinner and I'm all ready to tackle some more messages. So let's get to it...










Well, Cooper DID alter the past. Greatly! But the course correction done by the universe - the past dictates the future - as well as interference by The Black Lodge entities has caused things to get to the point where it is now and where Twin Peaks: The Return ends.










So true. Anyone that can understand the complexities of Twin Peaks could never say what most of these fools are saying. They would just say it's not their cup of tea and move on. They would be too intelligent to bother wasting their time like this. Our trolls here are very ignorant people in general. And it seems that the more that someone can't understand it, the more they hate the rest of us that can.

I'm waiting for someone to say why it sucked that can talk about the actual plot. Notice that none of these idiots can.










From your comment, I take it that you are a woman. It's sad to me that we need to justify not being gay in order to comment on a person's looks. YOU - obviously - are secure in your sexual preferences. I am as well. So let me add that Kyle MacLachlan is a very good looking man.

By the way - THANKS for joining us. Please stay. We'll be keeping this thread alive, I am sure, for quite a while. Hopefully, up until and through the next installment - Twin Peaks: Curtain Call.

I met Mädchen Amick as well during the filming of Fire Walk With Me. And she is not only beautiful, but very sweet as well. One of these days, I'm going to scan and download the pictures that I have from that experience. Including one with me and her holding each other. Yowser!










JIAO DAI - I'm glad that somebody is getting it. We may both be wrong, but I think that we're both on the right track to figuring it out. Let me get caught up on the thread and then we can REALLY talk about all of this.

AUDREY HORNE - Audrey was not part of the reality/timeline that we were in during Twin Peaks: The Return. She had her own "dream" going. So we should either see her back in that white room or on to a brand new dream when/if the story continues in Twin Peaks: Curtain Call.

THE TWO DIANES - So yeah, the two Dianes. I've got my theories about this. Obviously, this isn't the first time that she and Agent Cooper have been to that Motel. We saw Cooper trying to bring Laura Palmer out of the woods twice - once at the end of Part 17 and once at the beginning of Part 18. I believe that we were watching two different timelines. Diane was wearing the exact same outfit. So they've tried all of this at least twice. OR in two different timelines. We'll get back to this.

THE SEX MAGICK RITUAL - When Agent Cooper and Diane Evans flip through time, I believe that they are suddenly thrown back to 1956. They are in the Motel listening to The Platters - the same song that was playing during the frogroach infestation. Remember when I mentioned all of the sex magick ritual stuff after Part 8? If not, please go back and check it out. It starts on page 11 of this thread. Jack Parsons was part of it. And he is in The Secret History Of Twin Peaks. The third part to the sex magick rituals (after the opening of the portal and the arrival of BABALON) involves a woman and that ritual is to conjure up the Moonchild - a being made from the essences of BOTH worlds. The Moonchild is also known as the Antichrist. I believe that the sex magick ritual performed by Agent Cooper and Diane Evans to transport themselves through time and space is either the original or is patterned after the original Moonchild sex magick ritual that birthed the frogroach - Jiao Dai.

MARJORIE CAMERON - The woman that performed the third ritual in real life with Jack Parsons was named Marjorie Cameron. She was said to have very distinctive red hair and blue eyes. Here is her self portrait...



As you can see, there is a BIG resemblance between her and the real Diane Evans that we met at the end of Part 18. So, like I said, there's a good chance that Cooper and Diane performed the sex magick ritual that caused the Woodsmen to come and the frogroach to be born. If they didn't cause it themselves, it was a similar sex magick ritual which did. At any rate, the ritual obviously allows them to enter completely different realities/timelines/dimensions. Because that is what they then did in order for Cooper to continue looking for Laura Palmer.

DIANE GIVES TWO RIDES - There's a chance that they are chasing themselves in the Infinity Loop. That the second Diane that was outside getting ready to have a smoke had already finished with the sex magick ritual and was getting ready to leave. OR the earlier "them" could be new doppelgängers or Tulpas that keep setting off a chain of events that cause the later "them" - the REAL "them" that we have been watching - to fail at completing their task. Since they appear to be back in 1956, perhaps the first "them" releases the frogroach during their rituals so that no matter how many times OUR "them" attempts to fix the timeline, they are always thwarted by The Black Lodge.








Alright. That was all stuff that I've been wanting to get out. So I'm going to go ahead and post this and then work on answering some more mail.

So stay tuned...

Today's thought - the number 8 (not in the voice of The Count).

When Teapot Jeffries is showing Cooper the symbol turn into the number 8, the pieces become separated at first.

Does this leave open the possibility to make three separate Universes/timelines (or to keep three existing ones finally away from each other)?

In one, the Universe is ruled by good
In the second, the Universe is ruled by bad
In the third, the loop continues (going round in circles).

Maybe Jeffries just tricked him into the Mobius Strip Universe?