Guardian angels

Paul claimed that Jesus was an angel before he was human.

I've never heard that before. It sounds like a misinterpretation. Jesus is God, he's not an angel which is a creation of God.

wish I had one : (

Wish I was one.

Everyone has a guardian angel. In the video he mentions how they do a lot of work in the background to protect us without us even realizing it.

I put mine to work overtime, and I have an army of them.

can i sleep with her?

Sweet

Galatians 4:14

Even though my bodily condition was a test for you, you did not mock or despise me, but you received me as an angel of God, as Jesus Christ.


Bart Ehrman says that it is not a misinterpretation.

He is one of the worlds leading NT scholars who has been studying the NT for over 30 years, he is one of the most respected scholars in his field.

that is a comforting thought but at times I think I do not deserve one

I am a member of his blog, so if you want, i can post his explanation of why it is not a misinterpretation.

He reads Greek and learned from the worlds top NT Greek scholar so he should know what he is talking about.

ha-can I sleep with him?

I interpret that to mean that you receive someone in the same way that you would receive God himself, with love. I guess I disagree with Mr. Ehrman.

Here is his explanation of it from his blog.

"Paul’s View of Jesus as an Angel

Here’s a bit from my chapter 7 of How Jesus Became God where I talk about why I think Paul understood Jesus, before coming to earth, to have been an angel. There’s more to the argument than just this, but it’s a start. As you’ll see, this isn’t just a crazy idea I had. I learned this from some very smart colleagues in the field, who have convinced me. It’s one of the HUGE surprises that I’ve had writing this book, coming to this realization. It affects a LOT in terms of New Testament interpretation.

*************************************************************​*****************************************************

Many people no doubt have the same experience I do on occasion, of reading something numerous times, over and over, and not having it register. I have read Paul’s letter to the Galatians literally hundreds of times in both English and Greek. But the clear import of what Paul says in Galatians 4:14 simply never registered with me, until, frankly, a few months ago. In this verse Paul indicates that Christ was an angel. The reason it never registered with me is because the statement is a bit obtuse, and I had always interpreted it in an alternative way. But thanks to the work of other scholars, I now see the error of my ways.

In the context of the verse Paul is reminding the Galatians of how they first received him when he was ill in their midst, and they helped restore him to health. This is what the verse in question says:

Even though my bodily condition was a test for you, you did not mock or despise me, but you received me as an angel of God, as Jesus Christ.

FOR THE REST OF THIS POST, log in as a Member. If you don’t belong yet, JOIN ALREADY!!!

I had always simply read the verse to say that the Galatians had received Paul in his infirm state the way they would have received an angelic visitor, or even Christ himself. But in fact the grammar of the Greek is suggesting something quite different. As the Gieschen has argued, and has now been affirmed in a book on Christ as an angel by New Testament specialist Susan Garrett, the verse is not saying that the Galatians received Paul as an angel or as Christ; it is saying that they received him as they would an angel, such as Christ. By clear implication, then, Christ is an angel.

As I indicated, the reason for reading the verse this way has to do with the Greek grammar. When Paul uses the construction “but as … as” he is not contrasting two things; he is stating that the two things are the same thing. We know this because Paul uses this grammatical construction in a couple of other places in his writings, and the meaning in these cases is unambiguous. For example, in 1 Corinthians 3:1 Paul says this: “Brothers, I was not able to speak to you as spiritual people, but as fleshly people, as infants in Christ.” The last bit “but as…as” indicates two identifying features of the recipients of Paul’s letter: they are fleshly people and they are infants in Christ. These are not two contrasting statements; they modify each other. The same can be said of Paul’s comments in 2 Cor. 2:17, which also has this grammatical feature.

But this means that in Galatians 4:14 Paul is not contrasting Christ to an angel; he is equating him to an angel. Garrett goes a step further and argues that Gal. 4:14 indicates that Paul “identifies [Jesus Christ] with God’s chief angel” [p. 11].

If that’s the case, then virtually everything Paul ever says about Christ throughout his letters makes perfect sense. As the Angel of the Lord, Christ is a pre-existent being who is divine; he can be called God; and he is God’s manifestation on earth in human flesh. Paul says all these things about Christ, and in no passage more strikingly than in Philippians 2:6-11, a passage that is often called by scholars the “Philippians Hymn” or the “Christ Hymn of Philippians,” since it is widely thought to embody an early hymn or poem devoted to celebrating Christ and his incarnation.

My friend Charles Cosgrove, a life-long scholar of Paul who is also one of the world’s experts on music in the early Christian world, has convinced me that the passage could not have been an actual hymn that was sung, since it does not scan properly, as a musical piece, in the Greek. And so it may be a poem or even a kind of exalted prose composition. But what is clear is that it is an elevated reflection on Christ coming into the world (from heaven) for the sake of others and being glorified by God as a result. And it appears to be a passage that Paul is quoting, one with which the Philippians themselves may well have already been familiar. In other words, it is another pre-Pauline tradition (see the discussion of Romans 1:3-4 on pp. xxx)."

-Bart Ehrman.

Look at the context of the verse..."received as"

Both angels and Jesus are "messengers sent by God", with Jesus being God's Only SON.

I reject it as heresy. To say Jesus, who is God, at any point was a creature (angel) goes against God's very nature.

Heresy? Angels are "creatures"?

So we will be "creatures"?

Angels are individual beings / souls just like we are, which is why Jesus said...

Mark 12

20 Now there were seven brothers. The first took a wife; and dying, he left no offspring. 21 And the second took her, and he died; nor did he leave any offspring. And the third likewise.

22 So the seven had her and left no offspring. Last of all the woman died also. 23 Therefore, in the resurrection, when they rise, whose wife will she be? For all seven had her as wife."

24 Jesus answered and said to them, "Are you not therefore mistaken, because you do not know the Scriptures nor the power of God? 25 For when they rise from the dead, they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven.

26 But concerning the dead, that they rise, have you not read in the book of Moses, in the burning bush passage, how God spoke to him, saying, 'I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob'? 27 He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living. You are therefore greatly mistaken."

Jesus wasn't a messenger sent by the Father?

Jesus' 3 1/2 years of ministry was, in effect, a large message FROM the Father through Jesus. It started off with a very important part of Faith & Belief..."repent".

The message was so important that the Father had John the Baptist "rattle their cages" ahead of time to "pave the way" for Jesus' ministry

Lastly, my fellow Believer, many folks take Jesus' words of John 8:58 to mean that He IS God the Father in the flesh.

Give this a read [link to bibleq.net]

If that is the case, then Jesus would know when He is to return. But Jesus doesn't, and He clearly states that the Father, "the one who sent me", is the only one who knows that information.

More FACTS!

Did Jesus ever say "pray to ME"?
No, He said to pray to the Father, "ask in My name".

The Lord's Prayer starts with "Our Father".

Jesus mentions the Father over 180 times, and several times refers to the Father as "He who sent Me". Who does Jesus pray to in Gethsemane? Who does He address in His last words while on the cross?

The Father!

We, as Believers, have been given to Jesus by the Father as His "flock". Those who have back-slidden or don't Believe are "lost sheep".

Lastly, all the prophecies in the Old Testament tell of someone who "God (the Father) will send"! He didn't send Himself....He sent His SON.

All of the above is clearly seen in the scriptures.





Last Edited by Servant-of-the-LORD on 03/21/2017 12:12 PM

it has nothing to do with sex.

THANK GOD FOR GUARDIAN ANGELS THEY ARE HUMANITYS GREATEST ALLY

Likewise.

We're getting off topic here, I'll just say this. To deny that Jesus is God is the heresy of Arianism.

Arianism. A major heresy that arose in the fourth century and denied the divinity of Jesus Christ. First effectively advanced by Arius (256-336), a priest of Alexandria, who denied that there were three distinct divine Persons in God. For Arius, there was only one Person, the Father. According to Arian theory, the Son was created ("There was a time when he was not"). Christ was thus a son of God, not by nature, but only by grace and adoption. This theory logically evacuates the doctrine of the Incarnation of God in Christ of all meaning: if God did not become man, then the world has not been redeemed and the faith itself eventually dissolves. Arianism was formally condemned in 325 by the first ecumenical Council of Nicaea, which formulated and promulgated the original version of the Nicene Creed; but Arianism and Semi-Arianism (see below) nevertheless continued to prevail in its original form in many areas for more than a century. Arianism was combatted by the great St. Athanasius of Alexandria (296-373) among others; but the heresy nevertheless persisted, especially among the barbarians, for several centuries.

Last Edited by GLP Effect on 03/21/2017 01:16 PM

I think it is important to point out that Paul is actually the only author of the NT that scholars believe is authentic.

There are many more reasons to trust the words of Paul, than the anonymous author of the Gospel of "John", even though it is impossible at this point to know if the author of John was a liar or if his views simply reflect how the views of the Christian community had developed as a whole, if you read Paul, Mark, Matthew, Luke and John in order, you can clearly see the development of the different Christology that each author has and the differences between their beliefs about Jesus.

There is also a strong consensus among critical scholars that the author of "John" never met Jesus.... and there is something very interesting about the sayings of Jesus from the gospel of John... even though it was the last Gospel to be written, neither Paul, "Mark", "Matthew" or "Luke" had ever heard of any of those sayings of Jesus that are found in "John" BUT they were all written before "John" and ALL of the Gospels were written after the death of Jesus, so where did "John" get these sayings from? and why hadn't any of the authors before him ever heard of them?

[link to lacrossetribune.com]


[link to www.youtube.com (secure)]





[link to www.youtube.com (secure)]




Last Edited by Servant-of-the-LORD on 03/21/2017 01:23 PM

I wish my angels where with me right now comforting me and loving me like I need to feel loved right now in this hate filled world it can get depressing

Last Edited by Servant-of-the-LORD on 03/21/2017 01:27 PM