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1/16384th Tudor?

 
LucyAnna
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10/23/2016 06:20 PM

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1/16384th Tudor?
I am a 12th great granddaughter of Mary Boleyn through her daughter Catherine Carey. Her grandson John West was one of my early American ancestors.

I read this article that said

"Circumstantial evidence indicates a high probability that Henry VIII fathered two children by Mary Boleyn, meaning that he has many descendants in both England and America."

[link to www.genealogymagazine.com]

Could it be true that myself and potentially thousands of people out there are 1/16384th Tudor?

And they said the bloodline had died out.

Diluted...absolutely. Gone... maybe not?
Anonymous Coward
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10/23/2016 06:25 PM
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Re: 1/16384th Tudor?
So, monarchies aren't a part of nature.

In the beginning there were judges, and not kings.
loveexists

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10/24/2016 07:15 PM
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Re: 1/16384th Tudor?
The 'possibility' does exist that Katherine Carey and Henry Carey were 'illegitimate children' of Henry VIII ...

... anyone descended from 'Mary Queen of Scots' would also be of partial 'tudor descent', as Henry VII Tudor's daughter, Margaret - Henry VIII's sister - was the mother of James V of Scotland ... the father of 'Mary Queen of Scots' ...

it is said that the 'House of Tudor' 'died out' in the sense that there were no agnatic/male-line 'legitimate heirs' of Henry VII left alive following the death of Elizabeth I in 1603 ... however ...in the event Henry Carey was Henry VIII's 'illegitimate son' ... the 'House of Tudor' (if such a phrase is taken to mean 'the male-line descendants of Henry VII, however 'legitimate'') ... was still in existence subsequent to the death of Elizabeth I, though no longer 'in power' as the 'english monarchy' ... though Henry Carey himself was no longer alive when Elizabeth I died ... his children (Catherine Carey, George Carey, John Carey, Philadelphia Carey, Robert Carey & Edmund Carey) were ... though Catherine & George died latter that year ...

also ... the 'possibility' exists that John Perrot, 'alleged' son of Thomas Perrot & Mary Berkeley, was actually the 'illegitimate son' of Henry VIII ... if he was, then that is further reason that the 'House of Tudor' ... (if such a phrase is taken to mean 'the male-line descendants of Henry VII, however 'legitimate'') ... was still in existence after Elizabeth I's death ... though John Perrot was not alive when Elizabeth I died ... 5 of his children (John Parrot, Anne Perrot, Lettice Perrot, Letitia Perrot, & Francis Parrot) were ...

also ... if the phrase 'House of Tudor' is taken to mean 'all male-line/agnatic descendants of Tudor Fychan ap Goronwy ap Tudor Hen' ... not just the descendants of Henry VII ... then, regardless of who 'fathered' John Perrot & Henry Carey, the 'house of Tudor' was still in existence after Elizabeth I died ... Owen ap Hugh, son of Hugh Owen, son of Owen Tudor, the brother of Edmund Tudor & uncle of Henry VII ... his daughter Mary ... David Owen, son of Henry Owen, son of John Owen, son of David ap Owen ... another of Edmund Tudor's brothers ... his son Henry ... and Henry's daughter Jane ... all descendants of Tudor Fychan ap Goronwy ap Tudor Hen ... were all alive upon Elizabeth I's death ... though David Owen died latter the same year ...

Last Edited by loveexists on 10/24/2016 07:33 PM
Because of the very nature OF duality, one must accept as factual duality's transient presence in order to truly comprehend its objective non-existence
loveexists

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10/24/2016 07:29 PM
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Re: 1/16384th Tudor?
Tudor Hen
/
Goronwy ap Tudor Hen
/
Tudor Fychan ap Goronwy ap Tudor Hen
/
Maredudd ap Tudor Fychan ap Goronwy ap Tudor Hen (Maredudd ap Tudor)
/
Owen ap Tudor
/
Edmund Tudor, Jasper Tudor, Tacina Tudor, Thomas Tudor, Catherine Tudor, Mary Tudor, Owen Tudor & David ap Owen


Edmund Tudor - Margaret Beaufort
/
Henry VII-Elizabeth of York
/
'Princess Mary', 'Princess Margaret', Henry VIII, & 'Prince Arthur'


Owen Tudor
/
Hugh Owen
/
Owen ap Hugh
/
Mary Owens


David ap Owen
/
John Owen
/
Henry Owen
/
David Owen
/
Henry Owen
/
Jane Owen
Because of the very nature OF duality, one must accept as factual duality's transient presence in order to truly comprehend its objective non-existence
loveexists

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10/24/2016 07:51 PM
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Re: 1/16384th Tudor?
The 'possibility' does exist that Katherine Carey and Henry Carey were 'illegitimate children' of Henry VIII ...

... anyone descended from 'Mary Queen of Scots' would also be of partial 'tudor descent', as Henry VII Tudor's daughter, Margaret - Henry VIII's sister - was the mother of James V of Scotland ... the father of 'Mary Queen of Scots' ...

it is said that the 'House of Tudor' 'died out' in the sense that there were no agnatic/male-line 'legitimate heirs' of Henry VII left alive following the death of Elizabeth I in 1603 ... however ...in the event Henry Carey was Henry VIII's 'illegitimate son' ... the 'House of Tudor' (if such a phrase is taken to mean 'the male-line descendants of Henry VII, however 'legitimate'') ... was still in existence subsequent to the death of Elizabeth I, though no longer 'in power' as the 'english monarchy' ... though Henry Carey himself was no longer alive when Elizabeth I died ... his children (Catherine Carey, George Carey, John Carey, Philadelphia Carey, Robert Carey & Edmund Carey) were ... though Catherine & George died latter that year ...

also ... the 'possibility' exists that John Perrot, 'alleged' son of Thomas Perrot & Mary Berkeley, was actually the 'illegitimate son' of Henry VIII ... if he was, then that is further reason that the 'House of Tudor' ... (if such a phrase is taken to mean 'the male-line descendants of Henry VII, however 'legitimate'') ... was still in existence after Elizabeth I's death ... though John Perrot was not alive when Elizabeth I died ... 5 of his children (John Parrot, Anne Perrot, Lettice Perrot, Letitia Perrot, & Francis Parrot) were ...

also ... if the phrase 'House of Tudor' is taken to mean 'all male-line/agnatic descendants of Tudor Fychan ap Goronwy ap Tudor Hen' ... not just the descendants of Henry VII ... then, regardless of who 'fathered' John Perrot & Henry Carey, the 'house of Tudor' was still in existence after Elizabeth I died ... Owen ap Hugh, son of Hugh Owen, son of Owen Tudor, the brother of Edmund Tudor & uncle of Henry VII ... his daughter Mary ... David Owen, son of Henry Owen, son of John Owen, son of David ap Owen ... another of Edmund Tudor's brothers ... his son Henry ... and Henry's daughter Jane ... all descendants of Tudor Fychan ap Goronwy ap Tudor Hen ... were all alive upon Elizabeth I's death ... though David Owen died latter the same year ...
 Quoting: loveexists


speaking of 'agnatic descent' ... the 'House of Tudor' itself directly descended, in the 'male line', from the 'historical king arthur' ...
Because of the very nature OF duality, one must accept as factual duality's transient presence in order to truly comprehend its objective non-existence
loveexists

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10/24/2016 07:52 PM
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Re: 1/16384th Tudor?
The 'possibility' does exist that Katherine Carey and Henry Carey were 'illegitimate children' of Henry VIII ...

... anyone descended from 'Mary Queen of Scots' would also be of partial 'tudor descent', as Henry VII Tudor's daughter, Margaret - Henry VIII's sister - was the mother of James V of Scotland ... the father of 'Mary Queen of Scots' ...

it is said that the 'House of Tudor' 'died out' in the sense that there were no agnatic/male-line 'legitimate heirs' of Henry VII left alive following the death of Elizabeth I in 1603 ... however ...in the event Henry Carey was Henry VIII's 'illegitimate son' ... the 'House of Tudor' (if such a phrase is taken to mean 'the male-line descendants of Henry VII, however 'legitimate'') ... was still in existence subsequent to the death of Elizabeth I, though no longer 'in power' as the 'english monarchy' ... though Henry Carey himself was no longer alive when Elizabeth I died ... his children (Catherine Carey, George Carey, John Carey, Philadelphia Carey, Robert Carey & Edmund Carey) were ... though Catherine & George died latter that year ...

also ... the 'possibility' exists that John Perrot, 'alleged' son of Thomas Perrot & Mary Berkeley, was actually the 'illegitimate son' of Henry VIII ... if he was, then that is further reason that the 'House of Tudor' ... (if such a phrase is taken to mean 'the male-line descendants of Henry VII, however 'legitimate'') ... was still in existence after Elizabeth I's death ... though John Perrot was not alive when Elizabeth I died ... 5 of his children (John Parrot, Anne Perrot, Lettice Perrot, Letitia Perrot, & Francis Parrot) were ...

also ... if the phrase 'House of Tudor' is taken to mean 'all male-line/agnatic descendants of Tudor Fychan ap Goronwy ap Tudor Hen' ... not just the descendants of Henry VII ... then, regardless of who 'fathered' John Perrot & Henry Carey, the 'house of Tudor' was still in existence after Elizabeth I died ... Owen ap Hugh, son of Hugh Owen, son of Owen Tudor, the brother of Edmund Tudor & uncle of Henry VII ... his daughter Mary ... David Owen, son of Henry Owen, son of John Owen, son of David ap Owen ... another of Edmund Tudor's brothers ... his son Henry ... and Henry's daughter Jane ... all descendants of Tudor Fychan ap Goronwy ap Tudor Hen ... were all alive upon Elizabeth I's death ... though David Owen died latter the same year ...
 Quoting: loveexists


speaking of 'agnatic descent' ... the 'House of Tudor' itself directly descended, in the 'male line', from the 'historical king arthur' ...
 Quoting: loveexists


Arthur-Guinevere
/
Amhar
/
Cadrod
/
Esbwys
/
Yspwys Myrntyrch
/
Mynan ap Yspwys
/
Mor ap Mynan
/
Elfyw ap Mor
/
Cynan ap Elfyw
/
Marchudd
/
Kerwit
/
Senylt
/
Nathen
/
Edryt ap Nathen
/
Idnerth ap Edryd
/
Gwgon
/
Iorwerth
/
Kendrid ap Iorwerth
/
Edynfed Fychan
/
Goronwy
/
Tudor Hen
/
Goronwy ap Tudor Hen
/
Tudor Fychan ap Goronwy ap Tudor Hen
/
Maredudd ap Tudor Fychan ap Goronwy ap Tudor Hen (Maredudd ap Tudor)
/
Owen ap Tudor
/
Edmund Tudor
/
Henry VII

Last Edited by loveexists on 10/24/2016 07:53 PM
Because of the very nature OF duality, one must accept as factual duality's transient presence in order to truly comprehend its objective non-existence
loveexists

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10/24/2016 07:54 PM
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Re: 1/16384th Tudor?
this 'agnatic descent from arthur' means that 'the tudors' were also direct 'agnatic descendants' of nero ...

damned
Because of the very nature OF duality, one must accept as factual duality's transient presence in order to truly comprehend its objective non-existence
loveexists

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10/24/2016 08:08 PM
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Re: 1/16384th Tudor?
Elizabeth I was the last 'english monarch' to be directly descended from arthur 'in the male line' until the ascension of William III in 1694 ... 322 years ago ...

if/when 'prince charles' or 'prince william' ... 'ascend to the throne' ... they will be the first 'english monarch' since William III to be directly descended from 'arthur' in the male line ...

if they 'ascend to the throne' ... this year ...

perhaps it will be for certain .... 'numerological reasons' ...

Idol1
Because of the very nature OF duality, one must accept as factual duality's transient presence in order to truly comprehend its objective non-existence
Anonymous Coward
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10/24/2016 08:30 PM
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Re: 1/16384th Tudor?
Thanks so much loveexists, you filled in many of the blanks for me!
Anonymous Coward
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10/24/2016 08:34 PM
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Re: 1/16384th Tudor?
Thanks so much loveexists, you filled in many of the blanks for me!
 Quoting: TheQueenofFrance


No it doesn't. Love is money.
Anonymous Coward
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10/24/2016 08:37 PM
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Re: 1/16384th Tudor?
It seems to me the Tudors were a pretty violent, ruthless lot. It probably would have been better if the line had died out.
Anonymous Coward
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10/24/2016 08:56 PM
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Re: 1/16384th Tudor?
It seems to me the Tudors were a pretty violent, ruthless lot. It probably would have been better if the line had died out.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 73258756


The Windsors think the samething about you. That's probably why they arn't doing anything but making money of your elected officials feeding you to Islam in the middle east.

At least women will feel good talking about sunshine and love.
Anonymous Coward
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10/24/2016 09:05 PM
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Re: 1/16384th Tudor?
Last but not least...

Owen Wilson


HAHAHAHA
loveexists

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10/24/2016 09:06 PM
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Re: 1/16384th Tudor?
It seems to me the Tudors were a pretty violent, ruthless lot. It probably would have been better if the line had died out.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 73258756


The 'dynasties' 'brought to power' as the 'english monarchy' following the death of Elizabeth I, were responsible for far more crimes against humanity than the descendants of John Perrot & Henry Carey ... none of which 'wielded power' over england the same way Henry VII, Henry VIII, Edward VI, Mary I & Elizabeth I did ... each 'dynasty' to be 'brought to power' subsequent to Elizabeth I's death, also descended from 'the house of tudor', btw, but not in the 'male line' ...

Last Edited by loveexists on 10/24/2016 09:07 PM
Because of the very nature OF duality, one must accept as factual duality's transient presence in order to truly comprehend its objective non-existence
1/64th pure african sausage
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10/24/2016 09:16 PM
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Re: 1/16384th Tudor?
What time is it?
Time to get Stupid!
LucyAnna  (OP)

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10/24/2016 09:28 PM

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Re: 1/16384th Tudor?
The 'possibility' does exist that Katherine Carey and Henry Carey were 'illegitimate children' of Henry VIII ...

... anyone descended from 'Mary Queen of Scots' would also be of partial 'tudor descent', as Henry VII Tudor's daughter, Margaret - Henry VIII's sister - was the mother of James V of Scotland ... the father of 'Mary Queen of Scots' ...

it is said that the 'House of Tudor' 'died out' in the sense that there were no agnatic/male-line 'legitimate heirs' of Henry VII left alive following the death of Elizabeth I in 1603 ... however ...in the event Henry Carey was Henry VIII's 'illegitimate son' ... the 'House of Tudor' (if such a phrase is taken to mean 'the male-line descendants of Henry VII, however 'legitimate'') ... was still in existence subsequent to the death of Elizabeth I, though no longer 'in power' as the 'english monarchy' ... though Henry Carey himself was no longer alive when Elizabeth I died ... his children (Catherine Carey, George Carey, John Carey, Philadelphia Carey, Robert Carey & Edmund Carey) were ... though Catherine & George died latter that year ...

also ... the 'possibility' exists that John Perrot, 'alleged' son of Thomas Perrot & Mary Berkeley, was actually the 'illegitimate son' of Henry VIII ... if he was, then that is further reason that the 'House of Tudor' ... (if such a phrase is taken to mean 'the male-line descendants of Henry VII, however 'legitimate'') ... was still in existence after Elizabeth I's death ... though John Perrot was not alive when Elizabeth I died ... 5 of his children (John Parrot, Anne Perrot, Lettice Perrot, Letitia Perrot, & Francis Parrot) were ...

also ... if the phrase 'House of Tudor' is taken to mean 'all male-line/agnatic descendants of Tudor Fychan ap Goronwy ap Tudor Hen' ... not just the descendants of Henry VII ... then, regardless of who 'fathered' John Perrot & Henry Carey, the 'house of Tudor' was still in existence after Elizabeth I died ... Owen ap Hugh, son of Hugh Owen, son of Owen Tudor, the brother of Edmund Tudor & uncle of Henry VII ... his daughter Mary ... David Owen, son of Henry Owen, son of John Owen, son of David ap Owen ... another of Edmund Tudor's brothers ... his son Henry ... and Henry's daughter Jane ... all descendants of Tudor Fychan ap Goronwy ap Tudor Hen ... were all alive upon Elizabeth I's death ... though David Owen died latter the same year ...
 Quoting: loveexists



Ahh, thank you for your thorough and informative response, loveexists!

Lots of information to process there, much of it I have never heard before.

I think it is fascinating that 500 years later we still follow the narrative of how all of this unfolded, and is still unfolding. It's wild that the system still holds pieces left from this time.

hf
loveexists

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Re: 1/16384th Tudor?
It seems to me the Tudors were a pretty violent, ruthless lot. It probably would have been better if the line had died out.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 73258756


The 'dynasties' 'brought to power' as the 'english monarchy' following the death of Elizabeth I, were responsible for far more crimes against humanity than the descendants of John Perrot & Henry Carey ... none of which 'wielded power' over england the same way Henry VII, Henry VIII, Edward VI, Mary I & Elizabeth I did ... each 'dynasty' to be 'brought to power' subsequent to Elizabeth I's death, also descended from 'the house of tudor', btw, but not in the 'male line' ...
 Quoting: loveexists


Henry VII-Elizabeth of York
/
'Princess Margaret'-James IV of Scotland
/
James V of Scotland-Mary of Guise
/
'Mary Qyeen of Scots'-Henry Stuart, 'lord darnley'
/
James I of England (r. 1603-1625) (James VI of Scotland)-Anne of Denmark
/
Charles I (r. 1625-1649), 'Princess Elisabeth'


Charles I-Henrietta Maria
/
Charles II (r. 1660-1685), James II (r. 1685-1689), 'Princess Mary'


James II-Anne Hyde
/
Mary II (r. 1689-1694), Anne (r. 1702-1714)


'Princess Mary'-William II of Holland
/
William III of Holland & England (r. england 1694-1702)(married to Mary II)


'Princess Elisabeth'-Frederick of the Palatinate
/
Sophia of the Palatinate-Ernest Augustus
/
George I (r. 1714-1727)-Sophia Dorothea
/
George II (r. 1727-1760)-Caroline of Ansbach
/
Prince Frederick Lewis
/
George III (r. 1760-1820)
/
George IV (r. 1820-1830), William IV (r. 1830-1837), 'Prince Edward'


'Prince Edward'
/
Victoria (r. 1837-1901)-Albert of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha
/
Edward VII (r. 1901-1910)
/
George V (r. 1910-1936)
/
Edward VIII (r. 1936), George VI (r. 1936-1952) - (likely) biological father of Elizabeth II (1952-????)


George V, Edward VIII, George VI & Elizabeth II are considered 'windsors' (original 'dynasty name' 'House of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha', under which 'dynasty name' Edward VII ruled) ... Edward VII, George V, Edward VIII, George VI, Elizabeth II, all descend from 'albert of saxe-coburg-gotha', in the male line ... however, the true 'surname' possessed by the 'Saxe-Coburg-Gothas/'Windsors'' is 'Wettin' ... was, at least, until Elizabeth II married 'prince philip' ...

George I, George II, George III, George IV, William IV, Victoria, all considered 'Hanovers' ... all descendants of 'Ernest Augustus' in the 'male line' ... the true 'surname' possessed by the 'Hanovers', however, was 'Welf' ... until Victoria married 'albert of saxe coburg gotha' and became 'Alexandrina Wettin' (her true 'first name' was Alexandrina, not Victoria) ...

William III and his wife Mary II are considered members of the 'House of Orange' ... the 'dynasty' William II of Holland (William III's father) belonged to ...

James I, Charles I, Charles II, James II, & Anne are considered members of the 'House of Stuart' ... being descendants of 'Henry Stuart, lord darnley' in the 'male line' ...

Last Edited by loveexists on 10/24/2016 09:46 PM
Because of the very nature OF duality, one must accept as factual duality's transient presence in order to truly comprehend its objective non-existence
LucyAnna  (OP)

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10/24/2016 09:35 PM

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Re: 1/16384th Tudor?
this 'agnatic descent from arthur' means that 'the tudors' were also direct 'agnatic descendants' of nero ...

damned
 Quoting: loveexists


I have to admit that I had to look up agnatic. That was a new word to me.

WOW.. I've wondered about the backstory to that backstory.
LucyAnna  (OP)

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10/24/2016 09:41 PM

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Re: 1/16384th Tudor?
The 'possibility' does exist that Katherine Carey and Henry Carey were 'illegitimate children' of Henry VIII ...

... anyone descended from 'Mary Queen of Scots' would also be of partial 'tudor descent', as Henry VII Tudor's daughter, Margaret - Henry VIII's sister - was the mother of James V of Scotland ... the father of 'Mary Queen of Scots' ...

it is said that the 'House of Tudor' 'died out' in the sense that there were no agnatic/male-line 'legitimate heirs' of Henry VII left alive following the death of Elizabeth I in 1603 ... however ...in the event Henry Carey was Henry VIII's 'illegitimate son' ... the 'House of Tudor' (if such a phrase is taken to mean 'the male-line descendants of Henry VII, however 'legitimate'') ... was still in existence subsequent to the death of Elizabeth I, though no longer 'in power' as the 'english monarchy' ... though Henry Carey himself was no longer alive when Elizabeth I died ... his children (Catherine Carey, George Carey, John Carey, Philadelphia Carey, Robert Carey & Edmund Carey) were ... though Catherine & George died latter that year ...

also ... the 'possibility' exists that John Perrot, 'alleged' son of Thomas Perrot & Mary Berkeley, was actually the 'illegitimate son' of Henry VIII ... if he was, then that is further reason that the 'House of Tudor' ... (if such a phrase is taken to mean 'the male-line descendants of Henry VII, however 'legitimate'') ... was still in existence after Elizabeth I's death ... though John Perrot was not alive when Elizabeth I died ... 5 of his children (John Parrot, Anne Perrot, Lettice Perrot, Letitia Perrot, & Francis Parrot) were ...

also ... if the phrase 'House of Tudor' is taken to mean 'all male-line/agnatic descendants of Tudor Fychan ap Goronwy ap Tudor Hen' ... not just the descendants of Henry VII ... then, regardless of who 'fathered' John Perrot & Henry Carey, the 'house of Tudor' was still in existence after Elizabeth I died ... Owen ap Hugh, son of Hugh Owen, son of Owen Tudor, the brother of Edmund Tudor & uncle of Henry VII ... his daughter Mary ... David Owen, son of Henry Owen, son of John Owen, son of David ap Owen ... another of Edmund Tudor's brothers ... his son Henry ... and Henry's daughter Jane ... all descendants of Tudor Fychan ap Goronwy ap Tudor Hen ... were all alive upon Elizabeth I's death ... though David Owen died latter the same year ...
 Quoting: loveexists


speaking of 'agnatic descent' ... the 'House of Tudor' itself directly descended, in the 'male line', from the 'historical king arthur' ...
 Quoting: loveexists


Arthur-Guinevere
/
Amhar
/
Cadrod
/
Esbwys
/
Yspwys Myrntyrch
/
Mynan ap Yspwys
/
Mor ap Mynan
/
Elfyw ap Mor
/
Cynan ap Elfyw
/
Marchudd
/
Kerwit
/
Senylt
/
Nathen
/
Edryt ap Nathen
/
Idnerth ap Edryd
/
Gwgon
/
Iorwerth
/
Kendrid ap Iorwerth
/
Edynfed Fychan
/
Goronwy
/
Tudor Hen
/
Goronwy ap Tudor Hen
/
Tudor Fychan ap Goronwy ap Tudor Hen
/
Maredudd ap Tudor Fychan ap Goronwy ap Tudor Hen (Maredudd ap Tudor)
/
Owen ap Tudor
/
Edmund Tudor
/
Henry VII
 Quoting: loveexists



That is an overwhelmingly long list recorded generations! Wow. How did you learn all of this? Personal research?
loveexists

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10/24/2016 10:18 PM
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Re: 1/16384th Tudor?
The 'possibility' does exist that Katherine Carey and Henry Carey were 'illegitimate children' of Henry VIII ...

... anyone descended from 'Mary Queen of Scots' would also be of partial 'tudor descent', as Henry VII Tudor's daughter, Margaret - Henry VIII's sister - was the mother of James V of Scotland ... the father of 'Mary Queen of Scots' ...

it is said that the 'House of Tudor' 'died out' in the sense that there were no agnatic/male-line 'legitimate heirs' of Henry VII left alive following the death of Elizabeth I in 1603 ... however ...in the event Henry Carey was Henry VIII's 'illegitimate son' ... the 'House of Tudor' (if such a phrase is taken to mean 'the male-line descendants of Henry VII, however 'legitimate'') ... was still in existence subsequent to the death of Elizabeth I, though no longer 'in power' as the 'english monarchy' ... though Henry Carey himself was no longer alive when Elizabeth I died ... his children (Catherine Carey, George Carey, John Carey, Philadelphia Carey, Robert Carey & Edmund Carey) were ... though Catherine & George died latter that year ...

also ... the 'possibility' exists that John Perrot, 'alleged' son of Thomas Perrot & Mary Berkeley, was actually the 'illegitimate son' of Henry VIII ... if he was, then that is further reason that the 'House of Tudor' ... (if such a phrase is taken to mean 'the male-line descendants of Henry VII, however 'legitimate'') ... was still in existence after Elizabeth I's death ... though John Perrot was not alive when Elizabeth I died ... 5 of his children (John Parrot, Anne Perrot, Lettice Perrot, Letitia Perrot, & Francis Parrot) were ...

also ... if the phrase 'House of Tudor' is taken to mean 'all male-line/agnatic descendants of Tudor Fychan ap Goronwy ap Tudor Hen' ... not just the descendants of Henry VII ... then, regardless of who 'fathered' John Perrot & Henry Carey, the 'house of Tudor' was still in existence after Elizabeth I died ... Owen ap Hugh, son of Hugh Owen, son of Owen Tudor, the brother of Edmund Tudor & uncle of Henry VII ... his daughter Mary ... David Owen, son of Henry Owen, son of John Owen, son of David ap Owen ... another of Edmund Tudor's brothers ... his son Henry ... and Henry's daughter Jane ... all descendants of Tudor Fychan ap Goronwy ap Tudor Hen ... were all alive upon Elizabeth I's death ... though David Owen died latter the same year ...
 Quoting: loveexists



Ahh, thank you for your thorough and informative response, loveexists!

Lots of information to process there, much of it I have never heard before.

I think it is fascinating that 500 years later we still follow the narrative of how all of this unfolded, and is still unfolding. It's wild that the system still holds pieces left from this time.

hf
 Quoting: LucyAnna


You're welcome hf hf

very fascinating ... 'history' ... begets itself ... perpetuates itself ... what we see as the 'present' ... another 'generation' ... may see as its past ... 'ultimately' ... 'time' is but an illusion ... the events of the 'present' ... directly 'brought about' by that which is 'seen' as 'past' ... seen by some as 'irrelevant' ... bearing no 'relation' to what goes on 'presently' ... but 'in truth' ... every action ... no matter 'when' it occurred ... is responsible for ... and leads to ... what stems from it ...

the 'past' is not so much the 'past' as it is 'another present' ...

and then, of course, there is the 'official', 'sanitized' version of 'history' ... a 'version' that should never be automatically accepted as entirely true, or automatically rejected as entirely false ...one must align with a 'mind of discernment' ... to truly 'see' ...

it may take ... 'time' ... but ... that which was 'not known before' ... can eventually ... 'come to light' ... the problem with the 'agnostic perspective' lies not in its commendable rejection of the doctrines of 'blind belief' and 'blind rejection' of any 'fact' that is encountered ... but rather ... its assertion that nothing can ever be known, simply because the process of discovering 'true knowledge' may be rather ... 'arduous' ... discerning the truth, of any matter, is a 'process' ... something denied by those who seek to wage war against legitimate intellectual & spiritual 'evolution', and then go on to appoint themselves 'arbiters of knowledge' and 'students of intellect', in their relentless propagation of the 'official narrative', their 'insistence' that it must be ... 'unthinkingly accepted' ... at any cost ...

but ... when one 'sees' ... what really 'happened' ... and sees ... what really 'happens' ... the 'flow' of 'history' ... into itself ... becomes clear ...

Last Edited by loveexists on 10/24/2016 10:20 PM
Because of the very nature OF duality, one must accept as factual duality's transient presence in order to truly comprehend its objective non-existence
Anonymous Coward
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10/24/2016 10:22 PM
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Re: 1/16384th Tudor?
The 'possibility' does exist that Katherine Carey and Henry Carey were 'illegitimate children' of Henry VIII ...

... anyone descended from 'Mary Queen of Scots' would also be of partial 'tudor descent', as Henry VII Tudor's daughter, Margaret - Henry VIII's sister - was the mother of James V of Scotland ... the father of 'Mary Queen of Scots' ...

it is said that the 'House of Tudor' 'died out' in the sense that there were no agnatic/male-line 'legitimate heirs' of Henry VII left alive following the death of Elizabeth I in 1603 ... however ...in the event Henry Carey was Henry VIII's 'illegitimate son' ... the 'House of Tudor' (if such a phrase is taken to mean 'the male-line descendants of Henry VII, however 'legitimate'') ... was still in existence subsequent to the death of Elizabeth I, though no longer 'in power' as the 'english monarchy' ... though Henry Carey himself was no longer alive when Elizabeth I died ... his children (Catherine Carey, George Carey, John Carey, Philadelphia Carey, Robert Carey & Edmund Carey) were ... though Catherine & George died latter that year ...

also ... the 'possibility' exists that John Perrot, 'alleged' son of Thomas Perrot & Mary Berkeley, was actually the 'illegitimate son' of Henry VIII ... if he was, then that is further reason that the 'House of Tudor' ... (if such a phrase is taken to mean 'the male-line descendants of Henry VII, however 'legitimate'') ... was still in existence after Elizabeth I's death ... though John Perrot was not alive when Elizabeth I died ... 5 of his children (John Parrot, Anne Perrot, Lettice Perrot, Letitia Perrot, & Francis Parrot) were ...

also ... if the phrase 'House of Tudor' is taken to mean 'all male-line/agnatic descendants of Tudor Fychan ap Goronwy ap Tudor Hen' ... not just the descendants of Henry VII ... then, regardless of who 'fathered' John Perrot & Henry Carey, the 'house of Tudor' was still in existence after Elizabeth I died ... Owen ap Hugh, son of Hugh Owen, son of Owen Tudor, the brother of Edmund Tudor & uncle of Henry VII ... his daughter Mary ... David Owen, son of Henry Owen, son of John Owen, son of David ap Owen ... another of Edmund Tudor's brothers ... his son Henry ... and Henry's daughter Jane ... all descendants of Tudor Fychan ap Goronwy ap Tudor Hen ... were all alive upon Elizabeth I's death ... though David Owen died latter the same year ...
 Quoting: loveexists



Ahh, thank you for your thorough and informative response, loveexists!

Lots of information to process there, much of it I have never heard before.

I think it is fascinating that 500 years later we still follow the narrative of how all of this unfolded, and is still unfolding. It's wild that the system still holds pieces left from this time.

hf
 Quoting: LucyAnna


You're welcome hf hf

very fascinating ... 'history' ... begets itself ... perpetuates itself ... what we see as the 'present' ... another 'generation' ... may see as its past ... 'ultimately' ... 'time' is but an illusion ... the events of the 'present' ... directly 'brought about' by that which is 'seen' as 'past' ... seen by some as 'irrelevant' ... bearing no 'relation' to what goes on 'presently' ... but 'in truth' ... every action ... no matter 'when' it occurred ... is responsible for ... and leads to ... what stems from it ...

the 'past' is not so much the 'past' as it is 'another present' ...

and then, of course, there is the 'official', 'sanitized' version of 'history' ... a 'version' that should never be automatically accepted as entirely true, or automatically rejected as entirely false ...one must align with a 'mind of discernment' ... to truly 'see' ...

it may take ... 'time' ... but ... that which was 'not known before' ... can eventually ... 'come to light' ... the problem with the 'agnostic perspective' lies not in its commendable rejection of the doctrines of 'blind belief' and 'blind rejection' of any 'fact' that is encountered ... but rather ... its assertion that nothing can ever be known, simply because the process of discovering 'true knowledge' may be rather ... 'arduous' ... discerning the truth, of any matter, is a 'process' ... something denied by those who seek to wage war against legitimate intellectual & spiritual 'evolution', and then go on to appoint themselves 'arbiters of knowledge' and 'students of intellect', in their relentless propagation of the 'official narrative', their 'insistence' that it must be ... 'unthinkingly accepted' ... at any cost ...

but ... when one 'sees' ... what really 'happened' ... and sees ... what really 'happens' ... the 'flow' of 'history' ... into itself ... becomes clear ...
 Quoting: loveexists


You're fascinating, I wish I knew you.
loveexists

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10/24/2016 10:29 PM
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Re: 1/16384th Tudor?
Thanks so much loveexists, you filled in many of the blanks for me!
 Quoting: TheQueenofFrance


hf hf
Because of the very nature OF duality, one must accept as factual duality's transient presence in order to truly comprehend its objective non-existence





GLP