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The War Against the Pre-Tribulation Rapture.

 
Anonymous Coward
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05/23/2016 06:21 PM
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Re: The War Against the Pre-Tribulation Rapture.
Another thread for the fail list.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72238029


Why?

This has nothing to do with date-setting.

Maybe you are just trying to slander rapture believers.

.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 71136151


With lists of fail that massive they actually slander themselves.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72263731

If you are referring to regular Pre-Trib believers, you must know you are setting a false guilt-by-association fallacy by attempting to combine date-setters with orthodox Pre-Trib rapture proponents. The latter do not set dates because our Savior said no one knows the time or hour of His return.

Date-setters, on the other hand, are un-biblical.

And if you look at some of the threads on that old-timer's list, you will see that some of them have nothing to do at all with date-setting, despite his repeated spamming attempts and claims. So he is certainly and willfully guilty of exaggerating his claims. For what motive, I don't know.
Judethz  (OP)

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05/24/2016 06:58 AM
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Re: The War Against the Pre-Tribulation Rapture.
This thread does't belong in the rapture hall of fails, because it's not a set date prediction.
 Quoting: Juju 71048695


9teen Thank you for saying that. If the spammers had their way it would probably have been put on this thread 7 or 8 times by now. But I delete it when I see it.
Okaywah

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05/24/2016 08:35 AM
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Re: The War Against the Pre-Tribulation Rapture.
Rapture deniers:

You do not have to call it "the Rapture", but Jesus said:

"Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh" (Matthew 25:13).

If you deny it, you are calling Jesus a liar.

Watch and be ready!
Anonymous Coward
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05/24/2016 10:07 AM
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Re: The War Against the Pre-Tribulation Rapture.
Rapture deniers:

You do not have to call it "the Rapture", but Jesus said:

"Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh" (Matthew 25:13).

If you deny it, you are calling Jesus a liar.

Watch and be ready!
 Quoting: Okaywah


Jesus then went on to say:

Therefore if you will not watch, I will come upon you as a thief, and you will not know what hour I will come upon you." [Rev.3:3]

It's only those of us who are watching that will eventually know the very Day and hour of the Lord's coming. This is because we're never going to stop seeking out that Day, even though the doubters, the mockers and the scoffers don't want us to!
Judethz  (OP)

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05/24/2016 05:38 PM
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Re: The War Against the Pre-Tribulation Rapture.
^^^ the devil is very knowledgeable of Scripture! lol
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 57036764


blinkerrose But he lacks understanding.
Anonymous Coward
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05/24/2016 06:06 PM
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Re: The War Against the Pre-Tribulation Rapture.
^^^ the devil is very knowledgeable of Scripture! lol
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 57036764


:blinker:rose But he lacks understanding.
 Quoting: Judethz


There is old mexican saying, the devil is not wise because the devil was born wise but because the devil has lived so long. lol

The devil has very clear understanding of human weaknesses. unfortunately, this is all too evident.

The devil's greatest sin was vanity. It is the human weakness that is most exploited. lol
Anonymous Coward
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05/24/2016 10:15 PM
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Re: The War Against the Pre-Tribulation Rapture.
This thread does't belong in the rapture hall of fails, because it's not a set date prediction.
 Quoting: Juju 71048695


:9teen: Thank you for saying that. If the spammers had their way it would probably have been put on this thread 7 or 8 times by now. But I delete it when I see it.
 Quoting: Judethz


clappa
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05/24/2016 10:18 PM
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Re: The War Against the Pre-Tribulation Rapture.
^^^ the devil is very knowledgeable of Scripture! lol
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 57036764


:blinker:rose But he lacks understanding.
 Quoting: Judethz


There is old mexican saying, the devil is not wise because the devil was born wise but because the devil has lived so long. lol

The devil has very clear understanding of human weaknesses. unfortunately, this is all too evident.

The devil's greatest sin was vanity. It is the human weakness that is most exploited. lol
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 71336019


Pride.

Ego.

I Will.

Me.

Every man is right in his own eyes.
Anonymous Coward
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05/24/2016 10:45 PM
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Re: The War Against the Pre-Tribulation Rapture.
Rapture deniers:

You do not have to call it "the Rapture", but Jesus said:

"Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh" (Matthew 25:13).

If you deny it, you are calling Jesus a liar.

Watch and be ready!
 Quoting: Okaywah

This is the Doctrine of Imminency.

It is the command to watch and be ready for the imminent return of our Lord Yahshua(Jesus.) It means Yahshua(Jesus) can come for us at any time. Nothing has to happen first.

That means no Antichrist (man of sin) first, no Confirming of the Covenant (peace treaty?) with Israel first, no rebuilding of the Jewish Temple first, no Daniel's 70th Week first, no Great Tribulation first, no Abomination of Desolation first, no time of Jacob's Trouble first, no Seven Seals first, no Seven Trumpets first (including the 7th of those trumpets,) no Seven Vials/Bowls of Wrath first, no Gog/Magog War first, no invasion of Israel by Russia first, no occupation of Israel by the Antichrist first, no battles between the Antichrist and the Kings of the South and East first, no Battle of Armageddon first, no evacuation of Jerusalem first, no Mark of the Beast first, no 144,000 Messianic Jewish evangelists first, no Two Witnesses first, no great plagues first, no Horsemen of the Apocalypse first, etc. The Doctrine of Imminence shows us that none of these things need to happen before the rapture happens. The only rapture understanding that fits with this look, watch & wait command is pretribulationism.

But they ALL must happen before the Second Advent, the Second Coming of Christ happens. He returns to put an end to all of that. But posttribulationism doesn't understand this imminence. It believes all these things must happen before the rapture happens. But if that is the case, then the rapture certainly won't be imminent; it won't be sudden; it won't be as a thief in the night. All the posttribulationist then can look for is the Antichrist and the Tribulation, not the rapture. And all of the different rapture theories are mutually exclusive, only one can be right. They all differ from each another in critical areas. And if the Doctrine of Imminence is true, then all the other later rapture theories cannot be.

The Return of the King will be well known as far as seven years in advance, to the day. Daniel told us so with his 70 Weeks prophecy. He said from the time of the Confirmation of the Covenant by the Antichrist until the Abomination of Desolation, there will be 3.5 yrs. And from the Abomination of Desolation until the Return of the King will be 3.5 yrs. Put them together and you get 7 yrs total. The Confirmation of the Covenant will be the first earthly biblical event of the 7 yr Tribulation. Once that happens, count forward 7 years and you will have the exact date of the Return of the King, Yahshua(Jesus.) Since we will know this date, it is further evidence that this date is not the unknown any moment date of the rapture.

Even the first and second century Christians believed in the Doctrine of Imminence:

"Let us every hour expect the kingdom of God in love and righteousness, because we know not the day of the Lord's appearing."- 2 Clement, Ante-Nicene Fathers I, circa ~95-140 A.D.

"Watch for your life's sake. Let not your lamps be quenched, nor your loins unloosed; but be ye ready, for ye know not the hour in which our Lord cometh."- Didache, Ante-Nicene Fathers VII:382, Ch. 16, Sec. 1, circa ~96 A.D.

"Of a truth, soon and suddenly shall His will be accomplished, as the Scripture also bears witness, saying, 'Speedily will He come, and will not tarry.'"- Didache, Ante-Nicene Fathers VII, circa ~96 A.D.

Not only the early church believed in the Doctrine of Imminency, but Protestant Reformers believed in it as well:

John Calvin, the 1500's author of Calvinism and the Presbyterian church, had this to say about it:

"Be prepared to expect Him every day, or rather every moment." "As He has promised that He will return to us, we ought to hold ourselves prepared, at every moment to receive Him." "Today we must be alert to grasp the imminent return of Christ."

Commenting on 1 Thessalonians 4, the "Rapture passage," Calvin said that Paul "means by this to arouse the Thessalonians to wait for it, nay more, to hold all believers in suspense, that they may not promise themselves some particular time... that believers might be prepared at all times."

The Puritans during the 1600s wrote the Westminster Confession. In it they wrote that men should "shake off all carnal security and be always watchful, because they know not at what hour the Lord will come."

The anti-Pretribulationists are like the 5 foolish virgins with no oil in their lamps that are ridiculing and disparaging the wise Pretribulationists for having their oil ready as they wait for the imminent return of their Lord; their Bridegroom to come and take them to His Father's House in heaven to their bridal chambers to wait for a little while, while the Tribulation unfolds upon those unbelievers left behind who dwell upon the earth.

Both Yahshua and Paul spoke of a sudden and unexpected future physical return of our Savior, our Messiah, that we should watch and wait for Him. This is an imminent event. This is the Doctrine of Imminency, the heart of Pretribulationism.

Peace

Come Lord, Maranatha!

[link to www.raptureready.com]
[link to www.gotquestions.org]
[link to www.pre-trib.org]
.
Anonymous Coward
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05/25/2016 12:52 AM
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Re: The War Against the Pre-Tribulation Rapture.
This is the Doctrine of Imminency.

It is the command to watch and be ready for the imminent return of our Lord Yahshua(Jesus.) It means Yahshua(Jesus) can come for us at any time. Nothing has to happen first.

That means no Antichrist (man of sin) first, no Confirming of the Covenant (peace treaty?) with Israel first, no rebuilding of the Jewish Temple first, no Daniel's 70th Week first, no Great Tribulation first, no Abomination of Desolation first, no time of Jacob's Trouble first, no Seven Seals first, no Seven Trumpets first (including the 7th of those trumpets,) no Seven Vials/Bowls of Wrath first, no Gog/Magog War first, no invasion of Israel by Russia first, no occupation of Israel by the Antichrist first, no battles between the Antichrist and the Kings of the South and East first, no Battle of Armageddon first, no evacuation of Jerusalem first, no Mark of the Beast first, no 144,000 Messianic Jewish evangelists first, no Two Witnesses first, no great plagues first, no Horsemen of the Apocalypse first, etc. The Doctrine of Imminence shows us that none of these things need to happen before the rapture happens. The only rapture understanding that fits with this look, watch & wait command is pretribulationism.

But they ALL must happen before the Second Advent, the Second Coming of Christ happens. He returns to put an end to all of that. But posttribulationism doesn't understand this imminence. It believes all these things must happen before the rapture happens. But if that is the case, then the rapture certainly won't be imminent; it won't be sudden; it won't be as a thief in the night. All the posttribulationist then can look for is the Antichrist and the Tribulation, not the rapture. And all of the different rapture theories are mutually exclusive, only one can be right. They all differ from each another in critical areas. And if the Doctrine of Imminence is true, then all the other later rapture theories cannot be.

The Return of the King will be well known as far as seven years in advance, to the day. Daniel told us so with his 70 Weeks prophecy. He said from the time of the Confirmation of the Covenant by the Antichrist until the Abomination of Desolation, there will be 3.5 yrs. And from the Abomination of Desolation until the Return of the King will be 3.5 yrs. Put them together and you get 7 yrs total. The Confirmation of the Covenant will be the first earthly biblical event of the 7 yr Tribulation. Once that happens, count forward 7 years and you will have the exact date of the Return of the King, Yahshua(Jesus.) Since we will know this date, it is further evidence that this date is not the unknown any moment date of the rapture.

Even the first and second century Christians believed in the Doctrine of Imminence:

"Let us every hour expect the kingdom of God in love and righteousness, because we know not the day of the Lord's appearing."- 2 Clement, Ante-Nicene Fathers I, circa ~95-140 A.D.

"Watch for your life's sake. Let not your lamps be quenched, nor your loins unloosed; but be ye ready, for ye know not the hour in which our Lord cometh."- Didache, Ante-Nicene Fathers VII:382, Ch. 16, Sec. 1, circa ~96 A.D.

"Of a truth, soon and suddenly shall His will be accomplished, as the Scripture also bears witness, saying, 'Speedily will He come, and will not tarry.'"- Didache, Ante-Nicene Fathers VII, circa ~96 A.D.

Not only the early church believed in the Doctrine of Imminency, but Protestant Reformers believed in it as well:

John Calvin, the 1500's author of Calvinism and the Presbyterian church, had this to say about it:

"Be prepared to expect Him every day, or rather every moment." "As He has promised that He will return to us, we ought to hold ourselves prepared, at every moment to receive Him." "Today we must be alert to grasp the imminent return of Christ."

Commenting on 1 Thessalonians 4, the "Rapture passage," Calvin said that Paul "means by this to arouse the Thessalonians to wait for it, nay more, to hold all believers in suspense, that they may not promise themselves some particular time... that believers might be prepared at all times."

The Puritans during the 1600s wrote the Westminster Confession. In it they wrote that men should "shake off all carnal security and be always watchful, because they know not at what hour the Lord will come."

The anti-Pretribulationists are like the 5 foolish virgins with no oil in their lamps that are ridiculing and disparaging the wise Pretribulationists for having their oil ready as they wait for the imminent return of their Lord; their Bridegroom to come and take them to His Father's House in heaven to their bridal chambers to wait for a little while, while the Tribulation unfolds upon those unbelievers left behind who dwell upon the earth.

Both Yahshua and Paul spoke of a sudden and unexpected future physical return of our Savior, our Messiah, that we should watch and wait for Him. This is an imminent event. This is the Doctrine of Imminency, the heart of Pretribulationism.

Peace

Come Lord, Maranatha!

[link to www.raptureready.com]
[link to www.gotquestions.org]
[link to www.pre-trib.org]
.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 70655568
Anonymous Coward
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05/25/2016 01:12 AM
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Re: The War Against the Pre-Tribulation Rapture.
Rapture deniers:

You do not have to call it "the Rapture", but Jesus said:

"Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh" (Matthew 25:13).

If you deny it, you are calling Jesus a liar.

Watch and be ready!
 Quoting: Okaywah


Jesus then went on to say:

Therefore if you will not watch, I will come upon you as a thief, and you will not know what hour I will come upon you." [Rev.3:3]

It's only those of us who are watching that will eventually know the very Day and hour of the Lord's coming. This is because we're never going to stop seeking out that Day, even though the doubters, the mockers and the scoffers don't want us to!
 Quoting: INTHELORDSNAME

We will not eventually know the very Day and hour of our Lord's coming until it happens. We know the season is upon us, and when He comes we will not be caught unaware. We will be waiting expectingly for His arrival when He comes.

There is nothing that will change Matthew 25:13 between the time it was written and the time of our Lord's return for us. And your inference in Revelation 3:3 is just that, and inference. It is not a scripture. I believe you have learned nothing from your recent failure at date-setting.

And if you continue to set more failed dates as you have before, you will continue to give Pretribulationism, and Christianity as a whole, a bad name. Please stop. And you can't delete my rebuke this time as you don't own this particular thread.

If we are ready and watching, we don't need to know the time or hour of our Departure because the days and hours are all the same to us when we are spiritually ready and waiting for our Savior's imminent arrival.
Anonymous Coward
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05/25/2016 02:00 AM
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Re: The War Against the Pre-Tribulation Rapture.
the doctrine of imminence is a twisting of scripture.
It does NOT mean that Jesus has to come before the tribulation

'Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.

And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.' Revelation 16:15-17


This shows us the timing of Christs return.
and he will come back unexpectedly 'after the tribulation of those days' just like he said he would.
don't let doctrines of men falsely convince you that coming as a thief,means he has to come back before the tribulation.
thats simply not true.
Anonymous Coward
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05/25/2016 02:47 AM
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Re: The War Against the Pre-Tribulation Rapture.
the doctrine of imminence is a twisting of scripture.
It does NOT mean that Jesus has to come before the tribulation

'Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.

And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.' Revelation 16:15-17


This shows us the timing of Christs return.
and he will come back unexpectedly 'after the tribulation of those days' just like he said he would.
don't let doctrines of men falsely convince you that coming as a thief,means he has to come back before the tribulation.
thats simply not true.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21351849

Rev. 16:15 appears to be a parenthetical statement, that is one that is inserted into another narrative, as an aside.

I do not think our Lord will come right then as a thief in the night as the 6th vial is being poured out, when the unclean spirits come and begin gathering everyone to Israel for the upcoming Battle of Armageddon. Even Posttribulationists do not believe this. No rapture theory supports this. That suggests verse 15 is not tied to the timing of the event happening around it in verses 14 & 16.

From the old Geneva Study Bible:

"Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame."- Rev. 16:15

A parenthesis for admonition, in which God warns his holy servants, who rest in the expectation of Christ, always to think of his coming, and to look to themselves, that they be not shamefully made naked and circumvented of these unclean spirits, and so they be miserable unprepared at the coming of the Lord; Mt 24:29,25:13.

[link to biblehub.com]

I think this verse is a general warning for us to be ready for our Lord's return so that such evils as were currently being described at the prophesied time of the Wrath of God at the 6th vial judgment are not later visited upon the us the readers. It's like saying, "All these terrible things here are coming, so you need to watch and be ready so you don't get caught up in them."
Judethz  (OP)

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05/25/2016 06:09 AM
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Re: The War Against the Pre-Tribulation Rapture.
There is old mexican saying, the devil is not wise because the devil was born wise but because the devil has lived so long. lol

The devil has very clear understanding of human weaknesses. unfortunately, this is all too evident.

The devil's greatest sin was vanity. It is the human weakness that is most exploited. lol
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 71336019



mexgal There is another old Mexican saying that can be applied to the Rapture: Things happen when they happen.
Anonymous Coward
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05/25/2016 10:28 AM
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Re: The War Against the Pre-Tribulation Rapture.
Rapture deniers:

You do not have to call it "the Rapture", but Jesus said:

"Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh" (Matthew 25:13).

If you deny it, you are calling Jesus a liar.

Watch and be ready!
 Quoting: Okaywah

This is the Doctrine of Imminency.

It is the command to watch and be ready for the imminent return of our Lord Yahshua(Jesus.) It means Yahshua(Jesus) can come for us at any time. Nothing has to happen first.

That means no Antichrist (man of sin) first, no Confirming of the Covenant (peace treaty?) with Israel first, no rebuilding of the Jewish Temple first, no Daniel's 70th Week first, no Great Tribulation first, no Abomination of Desolation first, no time of Jacob's Trouble first, no Seven Seals first, no Seven Trumpets first (including the 7th of those trumpets,) no Seven Vials/Bowls of Wrath first, no Gog/Magog War first, no invasion of Israel by Russia first, no occupation of Israel by the Antichrist first, no battles between the Antichrist and the Kings of the South and East first, no Battle of Armageddon first, no evacuation of Jerusalem first, no Mark of the Beast first, no 144,000 Messianic Jewish evangelists first, no Two Witnesses first, no great plagues first, no Horsemen of the Apocalypse first, etc. The Doctrine of Imminence shows us that none of these things need to happen before the rapture happens. The only rapture understanding that fits with this look, watch & wait command is pretribulationism.

But they ALL must happen before the Second Advent, the Second Coming of Christ happens. He returns to put an end to all of that. But posttribulationism doesn't understand this imminence. It believes all these things must happen before the rapture happens. But if that is the case, then the rapture certainly won't be imminent; it won't be sudden; it won't be as a thief in the night. All the posttribulationist then can look for is the Antichrist and the Tribulation, not the rapture. And all of the different rapture theories are mutually exclusive, only one can be right. They all differ from each another in critical areas. And if the Doctrine of Imminence is true, then all the other later rapture theories cannot be.

The Return of the King will be well known as far as seven years in advance, to the day. Daniel told us so with his 70 Weeks prophecy. He said from the time of the Confirmation of the Covenant by the Antichrist until the Abomination of Desolation, there will be 3.5 yrs. And from the Abomination of Desolation until the Return of the King will be 3.5 yrs. Put them together and you get 7 yrs total. The Confirmation of the Covenant will be the first earthly biblical event of the 7 yr Tribulation. Once that happens, count forward 7 years and you will have the exact date of the Return of the King, Yahshua(Jesus.) Since we will know this date, it is further evidence that this date is not the unknown any moment date of the rapture.

Even the first and second century Christians believed in the Doctrine of Imminence:

"Let us every hour expect the kingdom of God in love and righteousness, because we know not the day of the Lord's appearing."- 2 Clement, Ante-Nicene Fathers I, circa ~95-140 A.D.

"Watch for your life's sake. Let not your lamps be quenched, nor your loins unloosed; but be ye ready, for ye know not the hour in which our Lord cometh."- Didache, Ante-Nicene Fathers VII:382, Ch. 16, Sec. 1, circa ~96 A.D.

"Of a truth, soon and suddenly shall His will be accomplished, as the Scripture also bears witness, saying, 'Speedily will He come, and will not tarry.'"- Didache, Ante-Nicene Fathers VII, circa ~96 A.D.

Not only the early church believed in the Doctrine of Imminency, but Protestant Reformers believed in it as well:

John Calvin, the 1500's author of Calvinism and the Presbyterian church, had this to say about it:

"Be prepared to expect Him every day, or rather every moment." "As He has promised that He will return to us, we ought to hold ourselves prepared, at every moment to receive Him." "Today we must be alert to grasp the imminent return of Christ."

Commenting on 1 Thessalonians 4, the "Rapture passage," Calvin said that Paul "means by this to arouse the Thessalonians to wait for it, nay more, to hold all believers in suspense, that they may not promise themselves some particular time... that believers might be prepared at all times."

The Puritans during the 1600s wrote the Westminster Confession. In it they wrote that men should "shake off all carnal security and be always watchful, because they know not at what hour the Lord will come."

The anti-Pretribulationists are like the 5 foolish virgins with no oil in their lamps that are ridiculing and disparaging the wise Pretribulationists for having their oil ready as they wait for the imminent return of their Lord; their Bridegroom to come and take them to His Father's House in heaven to their bridal chambers to wait for a little while, while the Tribulation unfolds upon those unbelievers left behind who dwell upon the earth.

Both Yahshua and Paul spoke of a sudden and unexpected future physical return of our Savior, our Messiah, that we should watch and wait for Him. This is an imminent event. This is the Doctrine of Imminency, the heart of Pretribulationism.

Peace

Come Lord, Maranatha!

[link to www.raptureready.com]
[link to www.gotquestions.org]
[link to www.pre-trib.org]
.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 70655568


clappa
Anonymous Coward
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05/25/2016 10:34 AM
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Re: The War Against the Pre-Tribulation Rapture.
Go and do research into when it came about, you maybe surprised it not what you think.

This is something that has been debunked time and time again. Of course you do not want to think you have to get tried in your faith, of course you do every day of your life but you nor I am so wonderful that everyone who is not us but Christians to will be left here to sulfur while we are just cozy and safe. The Lord God did not save the Apostle from their death but after, are you better than these? The rapture theory and that is it, a theory new as it was no believed before 1800s.

If you find yourself here during the very bad things going on, by the way it already is going on, what you going to say That The Lord lied, he did not, man did. Or are you not one of the elect of God who sees and stands?

No one has a war on you, it is a warning to you not against you.
 Quoting: hankie


Even Jesus himself went through tribulations. Why do some Christians believe they are exempt?

We are clearly told we will be brought up to Christ 'when he returns' Not before. That is AFTER the tribulation. We will have to make tough decisions. Most Christians will be killed for their beliefs. Why is this not clear?
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Re: The War Against the Pre-Tribulation Rapture.
Why is this not clear?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72273549


Why is this not clear? It's a straw man.

Pre-Tribbers know and accept they might have to suffer persecution or even death (it's clearly spoken about in the Word of God).

...But Pre-Tribbers also believe Jesus when He said, "Be always on the watch, and pray that you may be able to escape all that is about to happen, and that you may be able to stand before the Son of Man."
Anonymous Coward
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Re: The War Against the Pre-Tribulation Rapture.
Why is this not clear?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72273549


Why is this not clear? It's a straw man.

Pre-Tribbers know and accept they might have to suffer persecution or even death (it's clearly spoken about in the Word of God).

...But Pre-Tribbers also believe Jesus when He said, "Be always on the watch, and pray that you may be able to escape all that is about to happen, and that you may be able to stand before the Son of Man."
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 63628716


hf
.
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Re: The War Against the Pre-Tribulation Rapture.
I am inclined to believe pre-wrath. Im not so sure the tribulation is 7 years.. idk though
Judethz  (OP)

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05/25/2016 03:59 PM
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Re: The War Against the Pre-Tribulation Rapture.
Even Jesus himself went through tribulations. Why do some Christians believe they are exempt?

We are clearly told we will be brought up to Christ 'when he returns' Not before. That is AFTER the tribulation. We will have to make tough decisions. Most Christians will be killed for their beliefs. Why is this not clear?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72273549


watergirls Well there might be a few wishful thinkers about, but you seem to be forgetting that even if we aren't undergoing physical tribulation, we are getting troubles in many other ways. Such as a certain amount of depression/sadness at seeing our voices being ignored and ridiculed, as well as seeing many millions of souls walking in a daze towards hell. Discrimination in employment, being the butt of jokes and sneering remarks in the media, and so on and so on.

On top of all that there is a chance, the way things are going, that indeed physical tribulation to various degrees may be the lot of some of us. But then I am sure the Lord will help us in our hour of great need.
Anonymous Coward
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05/25/2016 04:51 PM
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Re: The War Against the Pre-Tribulation Rapture.
Even Jesus himself went through tribulations. Why do some Christians believe they are exempt?

We are clearly told we will be brought up to Christ 'when he returns' Not before. That is AFTER the tribulation. We will have to make tough decisions. Most Christians will be killed for their beliefs. Why is this not clear?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72273549


:watergirls: Well there might be a few wishful thinkers about, but you seem to be forgetting that even if we aren't undergoing physical tribulation, we are getting troubles in many other ways. Such as a certain amount of depression/sadness at seeing our voices being ignored and ridiculed, as well as seeing many millions of souls walking in a daze towards hell. Discrimination in employment, being the butt of jokes and sneering remarks in the media, and so on and so on.

On top of all that there is a chance, the way things are going, that indeed physical tribulation to various degrees may be the lot of some of us. But then I am sure the Lord will help us in our hour of great need.
 Quoting: Judethz


Suffering is a requirement for being fully glorified. That's why the Lord spent six gruesome hours on the cross.

"Ought not the Christ to have suffered these things and to enter into His glory?” [Luke 24:26]

We're not exempt from suffering either, if we want to our bodies to be fully glorified when the Lord comes. The suffering we must all undergo in this present age is the suffering of self denial in order to manifest the life of Christ. This is the equivalent of nailing ourselves to the cross. That's why the Lord said:

“If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow Me. For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will save it." [Luke 9:23,24]

The suffering of rejecting sin day in day out to live a holy life as we wait for our bodies to be glorified, is what Paul was referring to when he said:

"I don’t think the sufferings we are going through now are even worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed to us in the future. The creation waits eagerly for the sons of God to be revealed; for the creation was made subject to frustration — not willingly, but because of the one who subjected it. But it was given a reliable hope that it too would be set free from its bondage to decay and would enjoy the freedom accompanying the glory that God’s children will have."

"We know that until now, the whole creation has been groaning as with the pains of childbirth; and not only it, but we ourselves, who have the first-fruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we continue waiting eagerly to be made sons — that is, to have our whole bodies redeemed and set free. It was in this hope that we were saved."

"But if we see what we hope for, it isn’t hope — after all, who hopes for what he already sees? But if we continue hoping for something we don’t see, then we still wait eagerly for it, with perseverance." [Rom.8:18-25]

Those of us who are persevering in practicing righteousness now, are exempt from the time of trial that is coming upon the whole World. This is what the Lord Jesus Christ Himself taught us:

"Because you did obey my message about persevering, I will keep you from the time of trial coming upon the whole world to put the people living on earth to the test. I am coming soon; hold on to what you have, so that no one will take away your crown." [Rev.3:10,11]
Anonymous Coward
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05/25/2016 07:55 PM
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Re: The War Against the Pre-Tribulation Rapture.
the doctrine of imminence is a twisting of scripture.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21351849


False.

Who are you?
Anonymous Coward
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05/25/2016 07:57 PM
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Re: The War Against the Pre-Tribulation Rapture.
Even Jesus himself went through tribulations. Why do some Christians believe they are exempt?

We are clearly told we will be brought up to Christ 'when he returns' Not before. That is AFTER the tribulation. We will have to make tough decisions. Most Christians will be killed for their beliefs. Why is this not clear?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72273549


Who is exempt?

I have more than enough.

So much so that I am most ready to go.


WHAT DO YOU SAY THAT HAS TO DO WITH

THE WRATH OF GOD

???
Anonymous Coward
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05/25/2016 07:58 PM
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Re: The War Against the Pre-Tribulation Rapture.
Why is this not clear?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72273549


Why is this not clear? It's a straw man.

Pre-Tribbers know and accept they might have to suffer persecution or even death (it's clearly spoken about in the Word of God).

...But Pre-Tribbers also believe Jesus when He said, "Be always on the watch, and pray that you may be able to escape all that is about to happen, and that you may be able to stand before the Son of Man."
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 63628716


Indeed.

WHY IS THIS NOT CLEAR?
Anonymous Coward
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05/25/2016 08:04 PM
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Re: The War Against the Pre-Tribulation Rapture.
Maybe you want to have the chance to die for your testimony in Christ to prove yourself as good as you think you are

maybe your wealth and ease and worldly privilege

allows and provides you this luxury


but my hard labor and solitary confinement

indeed encourages me to look for more.


So you tell me

more.
Anonymous Coward
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Netherlands
05/25/2016 08:20 PM
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Re: The War Against the Pre-Tribulation Rapture.
what is clear, is that Christianity or any belief in G-d, is not on the future agenda of our secular leaders. A belief in G-d somehow undermines what is planned in the new order. lol

in many instances a belief in G-d is tool that our secular leaders will wield for social compliance and order.
Anonymous Coward
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05/25/2016 08:27 PM
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Re: The War Against the Pre-Tribulation Rapture.
Da' Juice would never promote a bullshit story to Da' non-Juice to better control them, would they Jz?
Anonymous Coward
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05/25/2016 08:56 PM
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Re: The War Against the Pre-Tribulation Rapture.
what is clear... G-d... G-d... lol... G-d...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 71336019


What is "G-d"?
Anonymous Coward
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05/25/2016 11:28 PM
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Re: The War Against the Pre-Tribulation Rapture.
If you believe in the Pre-Tribulation Rapture, then you should be able to Biblicaly support that concept. Good luck with that.
Anonymous Coward
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Australia
05/26/2016 12:10 AM
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Re: The War Against the Pre-Tribulation Rapture.
I am inclined to believe pre-wrath. Im not so sure the tribulation is 7 years.. idk though
 Quoting: Cavjock12

One reason I think the Tribulation will last 7 years is that it coincides with Daniel's 70th Week prophecy:

[link to www.gotquestions.org]

.





GLP