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Ayn Rand on Love and Happiness | |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 65758531  United States03/26/2016 12:48 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | ... Quoting: Boris Dragosani Nope. I don't hate the founding fathers. The reason I have a problem with Ayn is because a person can sense lip service to morality when reading her work. Her admiration of Hickman is what makes it apparent. One of his murders was of a twelve year old girl named Marion Parker. He had gutted her and cut her arms and legs off before delivering the stump of the corpse back to her father for a ransom. After receiving the ransom he pushed the leftover corpse of Marion out of the car and drove off leaving the father screaming. Still like Rand? Rand was very clear, if you read the journal entry in which she professed her admiration for Hickman, that she admired his individualism only. She deplored what he did. Later, as she matured in her philosophy, she questioned whether it's possible to admire the individualism of an immoral person. She concluded that it's not, because an immoral person is by definition irrational, and reason is the prerequisite of individualism. Hence, she rejected her youthful admiration for what she at the time thought was individualism, just as she rejected her youthful admiration for Nietzsche (who similarly rejected reason). My point is that I don't believe her when she professes an appreciation of morality itself. As stated earlier, I regard it as lip service. Sorry for the cynicism, but it's called "street smarts." She probably would have hooked me too if I lacked it. Other things she would do later in life only increase my cynicism of her. But you're begging the question when you say you doubt she appreciates 'morality'. What is morality? She has a specific definition of morality, derived from Greek philosophy. It doesn't in any way match what many people understand as 'morality' today. Morality for her, and for the Greeks, is a system of principles describing how to live a good life. That's wholly different from morality today, which is pretty much a set of rules telling you how to treat other people. Whether she appreciated a murder in a specific way when she was young really has no bearing on the overall evaluation of her as a person. It's like criticizing someone at 40 for shooting heroin when he was 15. You are of course welcome to disagree with her philosophy, and even to dislike her as a person. I'm not fond of her as a person, from what I've heard. Yes. I understand the difference between the Greek and modern philosophies. I'm just saying I'm not the type who would ever trust someone even after a lifetime if they were a heroin addict in their teen years. It's that street smarts I was talking about earlier. I don't hate Rand, I just pity her like I would damaged goods. She made brilliant points, to be sure. But when she talks about ethics I don't buy that she is being straightforward with her entire beliefs. I suspect a level of darkness that's hidden away behind the story telling. |
R@@T
(OP) User ID: 71717772 United States03/26/2016 12:49 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Another person who has taught me something here. I never would have known this. Thank you! “I'm selfish, impatient and a little insecure. I make mistakes, I am out of control and at times hard to handle. But if you can't handle me at my worst, then you sure as hell don't deserve me at my best.” Marilyn Monroe WE ARE NOT ALLOWED A MONOPOLY BUT WE ALLOW A MONOPOLY. by me The truth is out there. Anybody got the URL? CAPS LOCK – Preventing Login Since 1980. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 69599243 United States03/26/2016 01:03 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | ... Quoting: The_Original_Mind Rand was very clear, if you read the journal entry in which she professed her admiration for Hickman, that she admired his individualism only. She deplored what he did. Later, as she matured in her philosophy, she questioned whether it's possible to admire the individualism of an immoral person. She concluded that it's not, because an immoral person is by definition irrational, and reason is the prerequisite of individualism. Hence, she rejected her youthful admiration for what she at the time thought was individualism, just as she rejected her youthful admiration for Nietzsche (who similarly rejected reason). My point is that I don't believe her when she professes an appreciation of morality itself. As stated earlier, I regard it as lip service. Sorry for the cynicism, but it's called "street smarts." She probably would have hooked me too if I lacked it. Other things she would do later in life only increase my cynicism of her. But you're begging the question when you say you doubt she appreciates 'morality'. What is morality? She has a specific definition of morality, derived from Greek philosophy. It doesn't in any way match what many people understand as 'morality' today. Morality for her, and for the Greeks, is a system of principles describing how to live a good life. That's wholly different from morality today, which is pretty much a set of rules telling you how to treat other people. Whether she appreciated a murder in a specific way when she was young really has no bearing on the overall evaluation of her as a person. It's like criticizing someone at 40 for shooting heroin when he was 15. You are of course welcome to disagree with her philosophy, and even to dislike her as a person. I'm not fond of her as a person, from what I've heard. Yes. I understand the difference between the Greek and modern philosophies. I'm just saying I'm not the type who would ever trust someone even after a lifetime if they were a heroin addict in their teen years. It's that street smarts I was talking about earlier. I don't hate Rand, I just pity her like I would damaged goods. She made brilliant points, to be sure. But when she talks about ethics I don't buy that she is being straightforward with her entire beliefs. I suspect a level of darkness that's hidden away behind the story telling. Ah I see. Well I'm different then - I'd have no problem trusting such a person. |
| R@@T
(OP) User ID: 71717772 United States03/26/2016 01:29 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | ... Quoting: Boris Dragosani My point is that I don't believe her when she professes an appreciation of morality itself. As stated earlier, I regard it as lip service. Sorry for the cynicism, but it's called "street smarts." She probably would have hooked me too if I lacked it. Other things she would do later in life only increase my cynicism of her. But you're begging the question when you say you doubt she appreciates 'morality'. What is morality? She has a specific definition of morality, derived from Greek philosophy. It doesn't in any way match what many people understand as 'morality' today. Morality for her, and for the Greeks, is a system of principles describing how to live a good life. That's wholly different from morality today, which is pretty much a set of rules telling you how to treat other people. Whether she appreciated a murder in a specific way when she was young really has no bearing on the overall evaluation of her as a person. It's like criticizing someone at 40 for shooting heroin when he was 15. You are of course welcome to disagree with her philosophy, and even to dislike her as a person. I'm not fond of her as a person, from what I've heard. Yes. I understand the difference between the Greek and modern philosophies. I'm just saying I'm not the type who would ever trust someone even after a lifetime if they were a heroin addict in their teen years. It's that street smarts I was talking about earlier. I don't hate Rand, I just pity her like I would damaged goods. She made brilliant points, to be sure. But when she talks about ethics I don't buy that she is being straightforward with her entire beliefs. I suspect a level of darkness that's hidden away behind the story telling. Ah I see. Well I'm different then - I'd have no problem trusting such a person. I would have to disagree too. Didn't Jesus take in Mary who was supposedly a whore, she washed his feet and was his right hand man with what i've seen even his wife in some instances? Possibly children and i'm not talking about the movie devici code Last Edited by R@@T on 03/26/2016 01:31 AM “I'm selfish, impatient and a little insecure. I make mistakes, I am out of control and at times hard to handle. But if you can't handle me at my worst, then you sure as hell don't deserve me at my best.” Marilyn Monroe WE ARE NOT ALLOWED A MONOPOLY BUT WE ALLOW A MONOPOLY. by me The truth is out there. Anybody got the URL? CAPS LOCK – Preventing Login Since 1980. |
| Boris Dragosani
User ID: 65758531 United States03/26/2016 03:07 PM  Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | ... Quoting: The_Original_Mind But you're begging the question when you say you doubt she appreciates 'morality'. What is morality? She has a specific definition of morality, derived from Greek philosophy. It doesn't in any way match what many people understand as 'morality' today. Morality for her, and for the Greeks, is a system of principles describing how to live a good life. That's wholly different from morality today, which is pretty much a set of rules telling you how to treat other people. Whether she appreciated a murder in a specific way when she was young really has no bearing on the overall evaluation of her as a person. It's like criticizing someone at 40 for shooting heroin when he was 15. You are of course welcome to disagree with her philosophy, and even to dislike her as a person. I'm not fond of her as a person, from what I've heard. Yes. I understand the difference between the Greek and modern philosophies. I'm just saying I'm not the type who would ever trust someone even after a lifetime if they were a heroin addict in their teen years. It's that street smarts I was talking about earlier. I don't hate Rand, I just pity her like I would damaged goods. She made brilliant points, to be sure. But when she talks about ethics I don't buy that she is being straightforward with her entire beliefs. I suspect a level of darkness that's hidden away behind the story telling. Ah I see. Well I'm different then - I'd have no problem trusting such a person. I would have to disagree too. Didn't Jesus take in Mary who was supposedly a whore, she washed his feet and was his right hand man with what i've seen even his wife in some instances? Possibly children and i'm not talking about the movie devici code But Mary wasn't the philosopher to put ones trust in. Jesus was. E Branch ain't got nothing on me. |
